Need Advice!!!!

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Mushman

Mushman

Member Since 2019
Bad news - every thing was going very smoothly. I was getting his numbers. He was responding well to his treatment of 1 unit 2 times a day Lantus.

Now this morning he was supposed to get a shot at 8:30.


When I prick his ear, he feels it. He jumps when I do it. I feel so bad. I don’t know what to do. He knows what I wanna do when I approach him. He moves away from me. I don’t want him to be afraid of me.
I’m in a spot now. Need ur help

I can’t take his blood because when I pricked him, no blood came out, so I had to do it again, and not enough blood came out to put on the monitor. I don’t wanna keep doing it cause he feels it. I’m in a dilemma now. I fed him but I can’t get a blood test for now. I’ll try again later. I feel so bad to keep pricking him. He was supposed to get his shot at 8:30, but I can’t give it to him right now cause I don’t have his blood test. If blood never comes out I won’t be able to ever give him his shots and if I can’t give him his shots then we know what that means. OK I’m looking forward to your replies .
Thank you very much

Laura and Mushman
 
Take a deep breath, it will be okay! Home testing can be tricky at first, especially if you have a cat than can be uncooperative (I did). What size lancet are you using and are you using a lancet device or just doing it freehand? A larger lancet, like 26 or 28 gauge, can make it easier to get blood when you’re first starting out. When I first started, I had such a hard time getting any blood at all from Sophie’s ears. But as you test more, they will start to bleed easier. Also make sure the ear is warm - that helps a lot! Be sure that you are aiming for the outer edge of the ear and not the vein, because it can hurt a little if you prick the vein.

It may be good to just reset and start over with the testing process. Start by getting him used to all the parts of testing, without actually testing. I started by rubbing Sophie’s ears a few times a day, with a treat afterwards. Then I would hold her on the floor between my legs briefly because that’s how I test her, then give her a treat. If you’re using a lancet device, click it then give him a treat. Basically just give lots and lots of treats (or whatever it is that he likes!) so that the experience is pleasant for him and he associates it with good things. Reward him after testing, whether you’re able to get a successful test or not
 
Here's something I wrote up for others for testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you.

Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

For new kitties, using a heavier gauge lancet is also really helpful. A 25-28 gauge lancet pokes a bigger "hole" than a 31-33 gauge lancet does, so look for "Alternate Site testing" lancets that are usually a lower number

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
 
I’ll try later I’ll make sure I want to see is up good. But I have another problem now he’s not walking too good. Whether it’s a result of his diabetes, or arthritis, or I just called the vet and he said it could be something neurological. I don’t think it’s neurological and of all things my doctor is sick. I might have to bring him to the emergency vet nary clinic later. I’m not
 
As the day went on, he started walking a little better. He finally made because held back on his number one and number two. I think it could be a result of the medication but I don’t know for sure.


I tried to get his blood this morning. He won’t let me do it. I have to wait now. It’s throwing my time off. So I have to wait for later again.
He doesn’t like it. I try and prick his ear and he groans and moves away from me, so I have to wait. It’s not easy. The problem is now if I wait till say 12:00, then I have to give it to him at 12 midnight. It’s a problem now. I can’t get it the first time. No blood comes out, so now I have to wait.


This no thing is turning out to be a nightmare. I’m not going to give him insulin without knowing what his number is.

I don’t know what to do anymore. I tried, it’s very frustrating, maybe it’s just not meant to be. Thanks for your replies above.


Laura and Mush
 
yes they groan and try to move away -- some cats become cooperative right away, others -- it takes awhile
I found I could rarely test Catcat without feeding him a snack first, and testing him while he had his head in the food bowl

then, after getting the blood droplet, I often have to scoop it off his ear with a mini spoon, to keep him from tossing his head again and messing it up,
testing from the droplet collected on the spoon rather than touching his ear

at times I've had to attach hair clips on his scruff, make him feel like mama cat has him in her grasp, slow him down so I could test -- I don't have a third hand but that almost works like one

some people have resorted to wrapping cat in a towel, Catcat fought it

he comes to me when it's time, knows he will get a snack he loves, but yes he still complains, still tries to jerk and run away, you have to be strong and determined (and yes it helps if you sing to him)
 
Just hang in there is a matter of patience we all have struggled at first, I had to wrap Babu in a towel taco (burrito) style to keep him from moving, scratching,etc. It was hard at first but eventually since he got as a reward some bites of comercial turkey breast that he loves, he eventually considered the poking as a necessary evil to get the reward and cooperated more

You literally have to train him on to the testing, do the whole routine (grabbing him maybe wrapping him handling his ears even warming them if possible )without actually poking him several times during the day, including the reward so that he gets used to it once he doesn't struggle so much start poking him
 
As I mentioned in my previous response, I was not able to just dive right in and test my cat. It took days of getting her used to each part of testing before I was even able to prick her ear and get any blood. So it was days of only touching her ears. Then days of only touching her ears and holding her in place. And then after doing all that for each step, I was finally able to get her to cooperate. It definitely can be frustrating, I know I was very stressed about it, but it just takes a lot of patience
 
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Laura, I know you are having a difficult time now with testing, please know that it takes time with some kitties. Don't despair and keep trying. The treats or even feeding him might work some magic for you. Even if he is munching while you get that blood drop on a clean fingernail, that's fine..the food isn't absorbed so fast that it's going to make a difference.

Please create a signature and set up the spreadsheet so we can see Mush's info when you post. It's easier than trying to backtrack through previous posts to see what insulin, dosage etc. especially since you will continue posting and creating new threads.

Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the country/time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.

SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS
UNDERSTANDING THE SPREADSHEET GRID

Hugs to you and give yourself a pass on not being perfect on these first tries. Not many of our little fur kids are that cooperative at first.:bighug::bighug::cat:
 
Thank you Sarah. I reset and changed how I’m testing him. I’m using the ejector that comes with the alpha T, but not to inject the Lancet in his ear, just to hold Lancet for grip.
And yes, I’m aiming more for the edge of the year. It’s so much easier now, I don’t feel like I’m poking him. I’m just pricking and getting the blood readings.

Thank you Chris. I heat his ear with a little cat I have. I also use a 28 gauge Lancet. Thank you Candy and Veronica.

Someone suggested I test him at the mid range. I have been. What am I learning from this??

Also, may I ask how much food he needs to have in him before I inject?

Is treats not sufficient enough? I give Mush freeze dried chicken treats.

Laura and Mush
 
I have another question that my vet didn’t answer. Perhaps someone else has an asthmatic cat. The vet suggested he could have gotten diabetes from all the steroids he’s been taking since 2009. I’m wondering if anybody has an asthmatic cat who takes prednisone (pill), when do you give pill, i.e. how many hours afterwards?

I will try to get an answer from the vet again.
I’m just curious. I will not use what you say as what I should do – I am just am curious what others do. Thank you!

Laura and Mush
 
Mushman said:
Someone suggested I test him at the mid range. I have been. What am I learning from this??
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If you look at some of the other members' spreadsheets (links are in the signatures) you can see the patterns of how the insulin is working for each cat. Don't judge my my spreadsheet, we didn't know what we were doing yet and Idjit just slid into remission.

Now all of the spreadsheets are going to be different, but you will see the morning pre-shot test value..then what the BG is at the designated hour(s) after the shot. Testing mid-cycle tells you when the nadir (lowest BG in the cycle) usually is, and Lantus dose is based on the nadir BG. So, it's valuable in many ways: first to help determine if the current dose is working well, needs to be increased or decreased, and by how much at time, and second to get a very good idea of how your cat is affected throughout a cycle by the insulin.

Mushman said:
Also, may I ask how much food he needs to have in him before I inject?
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If you will read the stickies at the top of the Lantus forum you will not see any requirements that kitty has to have food on board before injections (very interesting and valuable information). Most members test, feed and shoot all within about 15-20 minutes. But, if Mush doesn't clean his plate, and wants to finish up a little later, it's just fine. Some cats just like to graze and it's ok. I always gave Idjit his shot while he was eating. Treats are great rewards for testing.
 
Regarding the prednisolone, I've seen a couple of people here (for the life of me, I can't remember exactly who), that said that since their cat's BG numbers run lower at night, that they would give the pred at night to kind of help balance it out. I don't know that the actual timing is that important, but if any of them see this, they might be able to tell you.
 
Mushman said:
may I ask how much food he needs to have in him before I inject?
Click to expand...

He just needs to be willing to eat.....with Lantus, each shot doesn't usually start to "kick in" for 2-3 hours, so he has some time to eat.

I used to test, feed, shoot all within about 5 minutes. Test to make sure they're high enough for insulin, Feed to make sure they're at least willing to eat and Shoot (usually with their head in the bowl)

Mushman said:
I’m wondering if anybody has an asthmatic cat who takes prednisone (pill),
Click to expand...

Have you ever tried the inhaled steroids? The tend to be easier on diabetic cats than the pill form.
 
His mid cycle approx 150. I think this is pretty good for him since he’s only been on insulin since 8/15 and his glucose initially was twice that number and then some.

I remember the saying slow is the way to go in the beginning.

Thank you for that answer.

Laura and Mush
 
Thanks Sandi.

Chris, he gets the inhaled medicine (puffers), he’s on the highest dose two puffs twice a day, but his asthma is so severe that had to add the pill a long time ago.
Since he was diagnosed with diabetes, cut the pred in half.
I trained him with inhaled meds in 2009 and rewarded with treats.

It’s a juggling act, keeping the asthma in check, and controlling diabetes while on a steroid.

Laura and Mush
 
Mushman said:
It’s a juggling act, keeping the asthma in check, and controlling diabetes while on a steroid.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know it is, but when our kitties have a more serious condition (like asthma) you just have to adjust the insulin around it. It's more important that he's able to breathe!!

jester1.gif

Keep on juggling!!
 
150 sounds awesome! You making excellent progress being able to test. Data is the only way to determine dosage and it takes looking at data over a couple of days, not just single measurement. I don't see a spreadsheet link in your signature. Do you need assistance creating one? Idjit's mom posted links to spreadsheet instructions and how to read it earlier. The meter should be able to store quite a few results and you can transfer them to the spreadsheet.
 
Hi All,

Took Mush vet today.
His urine smells different and he’s not making #1 regular as he used to. I realize it could be from the insulin, but I also want to make sure he doesn’t have a urinary track infection.
She took a blood test, and right there on the spot his mid cycle was 167.
Anyway she said that was fine. Took a whole blood panel, and fruito test again.
She cleaned out his ears, as he has a tendency to get schmutz in his ears.
I have to take urine in tomorrow

I quickly searched the forum regarding cat food, and I’ve been reading some interesting posts. But I want to tell you what they think is good cat foods.
I’m bearing in mind that vet practices get money when they prescribe prescription diets.
Although, I would get it from Chewy.

The vet tech said I should get Fresh Pet Organic (never heard of it), blue wilderness, wellness, or blue Buffalo, but she didn’t say which ones. — wet food.
She said the Fancy Feast-classics wasn’t good, but according to forum, Fancy Feast
Classics fine.
I’m going by what’s on here. He likes the classics especially the fish

The doctor gave me cans of:
Pro plan DM she said to hold off for now on that.
Prescription diet metabolic urinary —veggie and tuna, and
Hills prescription WD which is a multi benefit food. I repeat it’s all wet
He eats Royal Cain Dry Glycolic
i’m curious about Pro plan and Hills.

Any comments will be appreciated.
Thanks

Laura and Mush
 
The DM is low carb, but most cats won't eat it or get tired of it quickly. There's nothing special about it except the price.

The "Prescription" foods are both too high in carbs for a diabetic cat and the ingredients are pretty bad too.

The Royal Canin dry needs to stop too. It's very high in carbs and even though it's got a fancy name that makes it sound like it would be good for diabetics, it's really not.
 
His kibble that he was eating before he was diagnosed was natures variety limited ingredient diet. I was under the assumption that the Royal Canaan was better, or actually lower in carbs.

I have a feeling you would say no kibble is good, but if there was a kibble to recommend, is there one?

It’s really awful to learn that something is being sold under the assumption that is helpful for disease a and it isn’t. Again lots to think about.

Thank you.
 
Blue Wilderness grain free chicken, turkey, and salmon flavors are great (I got them on sale at 33% off, stocked up); Catcat liked Wellness chicken and turkey flavors that we got at the food bank, but they are more expensive at retail, Catcat also likes the 4Health grain free turkey/giblets and chicken/whitefish (available primarily at Tractor Supply stores, the variety pack saves money); of course he likes FancyFeast pates (got those on sale too) -- the Friskies pates tend to make his BG run a little higher so I feed that at night so he doesn't bottom out while I'm asleep

all of these tend to have less protein and more fat than the more expensive foods

BTW, the prescription foods are mostly down at the very bottom of Dr Pierson's list, rather than included in the general alphabetic (by brand) larger portion; it's easy to miss them if you don't know to scroll down down down

does that help?
 
Mushman said:
His kibble that he was eating before he was diagnosed was natures variety limited ingredient diet. I was under the assumption that the Royal Canaan was better, or actually lower in carbs.

I have a feeling you would say no kibble is good, but if there was a kibble to recommend, is there one?

It’s really awful to learn that something is being sold under the assumption that is helpful for disease a and it isn’t. Again lots to think about.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Most of the nature's variety limited ingredient are just fine (except duck and rabbit ) and actually very good since they are high in protein but you should check in Dr.Lisa's list it the one he was getting is low carb since not all of them are, on the other hand almost all of Royal Cannin are very high in carbs

I've heard some people here give Young Again zero carb for dry kibble but is better specially if he has some urinary trackt issues that you try and stick with wet food
 
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