Need advice--Bandit OTJ week 1

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate it if someone could take a look at Bandit's spreadsheet and tell me what they think about his numbers? He's hovering in the low 100s, but he seems to be doing great. Very playful, good appetite, peeing normal. I think I'm going to keep going for week two. I told myself that if he hits 180 or above, he's going back on lantus. But he hasn't gone that high so far.

Thank you!

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... =9&t=22965

 

[Kathy and Kitty]

Hmm. I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to come along, but I do have a question. What meter do you use?

It seems like these lower blues have been normal for Bandit for awhile.

 

[Libby and Lucy]

when and how and what do you normally feed? Can you try testing, feeding a small meal, then testing 4 hours later? If his pancreas is working, the 4 hour number should be lower than the first most of the time.

 

[MJ+Donovan]

Banana bread and matzos?!? :lol: You seem to have a true carb addict on your hands.

Donovan was about 50:50 blue/green numbers for a number of weeks after OTJ. I think as long as you stay low blues and don't see an upward creeping trend toward yellow, Bandit seems to still be in an acceptable OTJ range. Keep up the testing though. Best to catch it quickly and shoot a drop of insulin if needed.

MJ&Donovan

 

[Pat+Raja+Shadow (GA)]

Here is your last condo August 21 viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22965

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Hmm. I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to come along, but I do have a question. What meter do you use?

It seems like these lower blues have been normal for Bandit for awhile.

I use the aviva accuchek. Even on insulin, I had trouble getting Bandit in the green. Every time he was in the low blues and I gave him just a drop more insulin, he'd go too low. So finally I gave up and let him hang out in the low 100s. His BG tends to average out around 120, which is in the normal range, so I try not to worry.

 

[kate and lucky]

I see you did as Libby suggested. Looks ok. Some cats do have higher 'non-diabetic' numbers.

Somebody you could look at as a guide in terms of whether you should give a drop for a bit again (better to do sooner than later and lose all good work achieved) is Deb and Spot. They have done this a few times now.

It's not a failure if you need to restart, just a slight detour :mrgreen:

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

when and how and what do you normally feed? Can you try testing, feeding a small meal, then testing 4 hours later? If his pancreas is working, the 4 hour number should be lower than the first most of the time.

Because of health problems with Gabby where she needs to eat frequently, Bandit eats 6 times a day. He eats low-carb gluten-free flavors of Fancy Feast (well, as long as he doesn't get into something he's not supposed to.) Here's is usual schedule, although there's a little variance for the late feedings on the weekends because I don't get home from my second job until 2 or 3 in the morning. He gets a total of 2.5 cans (7.5 oz) a day. 7am and 7pm are AMPS and PMPS on my spreadsheet.

7am(AMPS)-1/2 can FF
12:30pm(+5-ish)-1/2 can FF
330pm(+8-ish)-1/4 can FF
7pm(PMPS)-1/2 can FF
10pm(+3)-1/4 can FF (9-930pm(+2) on weekends)
1am(+6)-1/2 can FF (2-3am(+7-8) on weekends)

Today's AM +5 was 5 hours after feeding. I don't think I've gotten a +4 because when I'm home they're eating every 3 hrs, so the numbers are affect by the second feeding. But I can adjust to get one. Tonight I have to set the auto-feeders, so he may overeat if he steals Gabby's food and that will drive him a little higher than normal. Tomorrow I'll plan out the late feedings so that I get the +4.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

So...is 180 a good threshold to give a drop of insulin again? Or is it more in the vein of seeing consistently higher numbers? he's had a few numbers above 120, and I see them and say "you're starting insulin again tomorrow if your BG is this high", but then he goes back down again and is fine for a few more days.

 

[SaraJaye]

According to the listed range of a diagnostic lab - normal for BG is between 64 and 170. I would be hesitant to shoot at 120 but that's just me.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

hi julia. for the most part, bandit's numbers are in the normal range, albeit high normal. libby had an excellent suggestion to test about 4 hours after eating to see if the numbers come down. ideally, you'd want to see the numbers under 100 overall for about a week before starting an otj trial.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

I would be hesitant to shoot at 120 but that's just me.

hello sara. most of us who are following a tight regulation protocol with lantus and levemir shoot preshot numbers over 50 once we've collected enough data to support our decisions. with lantus and levemir, dosing decisions are based on nadir with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

more information can be found in the STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOLS.

 

[SaraJaye]

Jill,

Really? I thought that most of what I'd read on this board supported not shooting at a PS of <150... with the suggestion to feed, wait and test again to see if it came up. Perhaps I misunderstood what I read... You would really shoot a dose with a PS of 60 or 70? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

I would be hesitant to shoot at 120 but that's just me.

hello sara. most of us who are following a tight regulation protocol with lantus and levemir shoot preshot numbers over 50 once we've collected enough data to support our decisions. with lantus and levemir, dosing decisions are based on nadir with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

more information can be found in the STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOLS.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

hi julia. for the most part, bandit's numbers are in the normal range, albeit high normal. libby had an excellent suggestion to test about 4 hours after eating to see if the numbers come down. ideally, you'd want to see the numbers under 100 overall for about a week before starting an otj trial.

I realize now I may have jumped the gun...I was following the protocol and decided to take the plunge because his numbers were averaging 120 or below for more than 10 days (with the exception of the Banana Bread Incident). It wasn't until I got back on the boards and started comparing spreadsheets that I realized he was higher than most of the cats doing a trial here. However, Bandit started having an allergic skin reaction to his Lantus injections about two months ago, so I was very eager to start the trial. After a week off insulin, his scabs are all gone, so I am really hoping he pulls through for me. However, I have no qualms shooting again if I have to because I'd rather he have scabby skin than high BG.

I'm definitely going to follow Libby's advice and get some +4s this week. I may need to reduce is food a little again, too. He needs to lose another lb, and reducing by just a few oz. seems to low his BG. I was feeding him too much before (albeit at my vet's suggestion), and his numbers dropped by an average of 10-20 pts with the reduction.

He seems to be doing great so far, though...he's playing king of the house today!

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Jill,

Really? I thought that most of what I'd read on this board supported not shooting at a PS of <150... with the suggestion to feed, wait and test again to see if it came up. Perhaps I misunderstood what I read... You would really shoot a dose with a PS of 60 or 70? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

Lantus and Levemir work a bit differently than other insulins...you adjust the dose based on the +6-+8 instead of the preshot. It takes a while for your data to show how the insulin is affecting the BG levels. But, yes, there are many occasions when you would shoot a full or reduced dose at a 60 or 70. It's slow acting and there aren't dramatic ups and downs like with other insulins.

Check out this sticky: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

you have a great plan in place and who knows? bandit may very well be pulling himself down into double digits. he certainly looks like he's feeling mighty good! :mrgreen:
fingers and paw crossed!

 

[Kathy and Kitty]

And in addition to a great plan, you have an AWESOME cat condo there!!!! :mrgreen:

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Jill,

Really? I thought that most of what I'd read on this board supported not shooting at a PS of <150... with the suggestion to feed, wait and test again to see if it came up. Perhaps I misunderstood what I read... You would really shoot a dose with a PS of 60 or 70? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

the suggestion to not shoot unless the ps number is over 150 or 180 is for newbies and/or those on other insulins.
lantus and levemir users who have collected enough data to support their decisions routinely shoot preshot numbers over 50.

yes, i would and i have shot preshot numbers of 60 and 70... and less than 60, but greater than 50.

please read through the stickies (starred posts) at the top of this forum for more information.
you might also want to take a look at lantus and levemir users spreadsheets beginning around 2007 to see what i'm talking about.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

And in addition to a great plan, you have an AWESOME cat condo there!!!! :mrgreen:

Best purchase I ever made...it's big enough so that both cats can hang out in it and not feel territorial. They used to fight like crazy over my old one!

And it wasn't horribly expensive. I had a couple amazon gift certificates and went nuts! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BYQ18M/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

And my furniture loves it, too!

 

[CD and BigMac]

Hi Julia! Congratulations on the trial. I hope everything goes well.
I've sent you a PM about photos and this little reminder is one of
my favorites:

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Talk about a condo! That set-up is amazing!!

SaraJaye: FWIW, I shot a 53 on 8/29. It resulted in a flat, green cycle. That's what Lantus and Levemir are notorious for -- flat "curves."