n00b alert: Pollock

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Pollock

Member Since 2013
Hi all,

I am so delighted to have found this site. Our Pollock has been diabetic for 7 years, and is finally free of the dreaded Purina DM dry food (as are his brothers), all thanks to this website.

Of course, his insulin needs immediately dropped from 3.5 units of Lantus twice a day to only 0.5 units only in the evening. I realize that twice a day dosing is ideal, but his morning blood is around 5 mml/l, and only gets to 12 mml/l by nighttime. I have had great difficulty measuring a 0.25 unit dose with my BD Ultra-fine 31 gauge short needle. I am in Toronto, Canada, are there more suitable needles for use with Lantus?

Also, I've been giving each boy two cans of Fancy Feast classic pate daily (I have three - Pollock is perhaps 13 or 14, Harry is 8, and Simon is 1.5 years old). I split the food amongst four meals. Is this enough? Pollock and especially Harry could gain to lose some weight after all those years of the evil Purina DM dry food.

Thanks everyone!
 
Pollock said:
Hi all,

I am so delighted to have found this site. Our Pollock has been diabetic for 7 years, and is finally free of the dreaded Purina DM dry food (as are his brothers), all thanks to this website. Of course, his insulin needs immediately dropped from 3.5 units of Lantus twice a day to only 0.5 units only in the evening.
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It's amazing sometimes how much the food change to a lower carb wet food can make in the amount of insulin you need to give.

I realize that twice a day dosing is ideal, but his morning blood is around 5 mml/l, and only gets to 12 mml/l by nighttime. I have had great difficulty measuring a 0.25 unit dose with my BD Ultra-fine 31 gauge short needle. I am in Toronto, Canada, are there more suitable needles for use with Lantus?
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You should be able to find insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel. With these, you should be able to estimate the 0.25U dose better. I don't know what is available in Canada re: syringes but Wendy & Tiggy will.

Are you using the 3/10cc syringes?

It would be better if you could dose that smaller 0.25U dose twice a day. Here is a picture of a syringe with a 0.25U dose in a syringe with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel. Click on the picture for a larger image.


Also, I've been giving each boy two cans of Fancy Feast classic pate daily (I have three - Pollock is perhaps 13 or 14, Harry is 8, and Simon is 1.5 years old). I split the food amongst four meals. Is this enough? Pollock and especially Harry could gain to lose some weight after all those years of the evil Purina DM dry food.
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I think you meant they could ' stand to lose some weight'? They may lose some weight just from the switch to the low carb wet food. You might want to read vet Dr. Lisa Pierson's article on obesity in cats to get some ideas on weight loss. http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity

How much do each of the boys weigh? ECID or every cat is different and may need different amounts of food.

One calculation is (weight in pounds * 15 calories per pound) + 70 as a minimum number of calories.

The amount of food is more dependent on the cat and what their ideal weight is. To give you examples of my 3 cats. My civie Delta weighs 7.2 pounds (3.3 kilos) and eats 4 ounces a day. My civie Monet is 12.3 pounds (5.6 kilos) and eats 6-7 ounces a day. My sugardude Wink weighs 10.2 pounds (4.7 kilos) and eats 7-8 ounces a day. These are all canned food amounts.
 

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Thank you for that mountain of info, including the caloric needs formula. Yes, it is incredible how a low-carb diet affects insulin needs. Also, their water bowls look practically untouched, due to them finally being properly hydrated via the canned food.

You mention that your cats eat a combined 18 ounces of canned food a day. Do they like Fancy Feast too? Always open to other suggestions!
 
Check out some magnifiers that may help from our shopping partner Amazon (link at top of page)
- syringe magnifiers
- visor magnifiers for those without glasses
- clip on magnifiers for those with glasses (I like Carson Clip and Flip)
- free-standing magnifiers

We also have a drop method for dosing when a dose is even lower than 0.25. Take a syringe and some colored water (to help you see it). Fill to 0.5 units. Twisting the barrel, push out 1 drop at a time, with equal sized drops. Practice until you can get the same number of drops every time.
Now you can dose by droplet. Never discharge the excess back into the insulin container as you will contaminate it with syringe lubricant.

Also, glucose tends to go lowest overnight; you may want to switch to a morning dose if you can't do a smaller dose twice a day.
 
Hey there and welcome to the board!

I live in Oshawa with my three cats and two rabbits. The syringes you are using are the best I can find so the photo Deb showed is exactly how I measure the 0.25 dose for my Bailey.

I also feed FF pates to my boys - i get them in petsmart (56c a can right now) or petvalu or even walmart. ca when there is a sale.

So.. what meter are you using? And also, when you say 5mmol in the morning... is that the preshot number?

thanks

Wendy
 
My three cats, Delta, Monet and Wink eat the Fancy Feast pates and the Friskies pate styles and love them. I don't feed many fish flavors because Wink doesn't like them. Also, with the contamination fish can have like mercury, I try to limit the fish flavors for the other 2 cats to once or twice a week. Mercury is not good for people, not good for cats either.


Thank you for that mountain of info
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So sorry for the mountain of info, but you asked a lot of questions. ;-)
 
Glad to know I am using the best syringes for a feline diabetic.

Our three boys made a smooth transition to an all-canned diet, but note to self: feeding them 3 hours late on a Friday night results in pee on the bed! :shock:
 
Pollock,

What else can we help you with?

Would you be willing to add some information to your signature to help us a bit?

Would you please provide us with some more information and put this in your user control panel? It helps us to help you better. This will take about 5 minutes of your time.
Think of this as having some very useful information at our finger tips for those that are replying to your posts. One reason we like to see this information in your signature is because if there is ever an emergency situation like a possible hypoglycemic episode, we don’t have to ask a lot of questions like what meter you are using to give you the best advice. Doing this signature update is totally optional, but it does help us to help you better.
If you are willing to do this, would you please do those updates when you get a chance? Thanks.
Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side. Select Edit Profile.
Go down to the location field and enter your country, state/province, and city if you are willing to share that info.
Click on submit to save this change.

Still in the User Control Panel, Profile tab, this time select Edit Signature from the left hand list of options.
A free form text box appears.
We like to see information like your name, your cats name age and sex, the diagnosis date for the diabetes like this (DX 4/30/13), what meter you are using for testing, what insulin you are using , what you are feeding (wet or dry, what brands/style of food), any complicating health issues your cat may have, any additional medications your cat is receiving. If you are using a pet specific meter like an Alphatrak or Ipet, please change the font size on that text from Normal to Large (using the drop down arrow list in the middle of the editing commands)

Click on submit to save this information. Now, this will appear at the end of every post you make. You can update the info when you need to.

There is an additional document you can create to provide even more information about your cat. This is also optional to create this google document and link it into your signature. The profile is in addition to the synopsis info in your signature. See this link on the how to's of profile creation. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79123
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My diabetic boy has taken to pooping on the floor a few times a week! Now that they are on a strict wet food diet, he really gobbles his food, and I think he has gas (based on a few recent audible farts!)

All three are fed in separate rooms, and I've tried smearing the wet food on a plate so he'll have to slow down. Yesterday I gave him 1/4 dose of Gas-X before his meals, yet I awoke to a giant poop hidden behind my curtains in the bedroom.

What gives? Is this a revolt against the new feeding schedule? Litter is cleaned twice daily, and boxes washed with soap and water weekly.
 
Did you change the litter recently?

Could be his diabetes is a bit uncontrolled too - how are his blood sugar readings? When my Bailey is bouncing up and down in blood sugar it seems to make him a little nutty and we get accidents.

Wendy
 
That's a good question. I have two days off this week, so I think it's time for a curve. He is now on 1 unit of Lantus twice a day.

EDIT: Blood at 10 mmol/L (morning shot given 1.5 hours ago with 'second' breakfast). Depending on his midday values, I'll try 1.25 units.
 
Any chance I can see more data? Last I heard from you I made a note in my files that your dose may be too high.. got any readings I can see from the last week?

Wendy
 
Wendy,

I will share the results of my curve on Thursday! I am also wondering if this has to do with the baby of the family chasing him down the hallway as he's leaving the litter box (which I've witnessed several times).
 
That wont help for sure lol!

So you dont always take preshot tests then? ( fyi its fairly important - many cats go into remission and shooting without testing is like playing russian roulette with a hypo gun)
 
Pollock said:
...I am also wondering if this has to do with the baby of the family chasing him down the hallway as he's leaving the litter box (which I've witnessed several times).
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Maybe:
Gently stop baby, firmly say "No", and turn baby away from cat.
Repeat ad nauseum until baby gets the message.

Depending on age, of course, your tolerance, and preferred approaches with small beans.

I did this once with a child of about 7 at a drug abuse clinic. She walked into the hotline room and stepped on my feet, on purpose. I firmly grasped her and moved her away from me with an emphatic "No". She was quite startled and stopped trying to do it again. Might've been the first time someone set a limit on her, given the setting!
 
I'm glad to report that the floor pooping in history. I added a third litterbox, and started giving the boy 1/4 teaspoon daily of Restorlax (Canadian version of Miralax) to soften his stools (which when I was cleaning up the floor poop seemed a bit harder than they should be).

Looks like the baby was ambushing him in the toilet, which he isn't doing anymore.

Blood reaches a pre-shot high of 10.8 mmol/L and goes as low as 5 mml/L.
 
Yeah! for litter box use again.

Litter box ambushes sound like they were at least part of the issue. Also good to hear the poop has softened because straining can cause litter box avoidance also.

Numbers are still a little high. Would you be willing to fill out this spreadsheet with a week or so of numbers and let us take a look at what is going on? We could give you some suggestions on the dose if we had the spreadsheet to look at.

We can help you set it up if you want. Just PM either Wendy or Deb and we can do this setup and link for you if you would like.

Were you able to get that curve you hoped to do on Thursday? Or did life throw you a curve ball and something else came up?
 
Those BGS are not bad and will help him to heal - if you see a number under 2.8 at any time then drop the dose 1/4 unit. If you see numbers in the 2.8-7.2 range for a week and nothing higher than that, also drop the dose by 1/4unit and see how it goes.

i agree with Deb though - would love to see an SS to see if we can tweak him into remission as he is pretty close to normal numbers.


Wendy
 
Deb & Wink said:
Were you able to get that curve you hoped to do on Thursday? Or did life throw you a curve ball and something else came up?
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Pollock's blood glucose gets wonky when he's under stress (like the time we boarded him to go to a wedding out of town), and for the past 1.5 weeks they've been tearing up different spots on my street for 10 hours a day. Also, the unemployed Chinese couple next door have been having marathon screaming matches that cut through the walls and scare the cats. @-)

As such, the curve is hold hold for now.
 
If you can't get a proper curve done, then the occasional test throughout the day might still help us spot a pattern. If you would care to start a spreadsheet with the numbers you already have, we can take a look and try to help you out. ;-)

Deb & Wink said:
Numbers are still a little high. Would you be willing to fill out this spreadsheet with a week or so of numbers and let us take a look at what is going on? We could give you some suggestions on the dose if we had the spreadsheet to look at.

We can help you set it up if you want. Just PM either Wendy or Deb and we can do this setup and link for you if you would like.
Click to expand...
 
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