My Vet's Not Mad at Me!!!

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Kimmied

Member Since 2014
Well, after not hearing anything from the vet since I emailed (last Sunday 10/12) the last update, I called the vet office this morning. I was about to give the tech my phone number for the vet to call me when he got on the phone. Turns out he hadn't checked his email. I told Him that Hank was back to grooming himself and was much more active than when I first got him on Sept. 18th. I told him that I switched Hank's food and gradually (after the vet had repeatedly told me not to) and that today was the first day of totally on the new food. He said, "Great"!! I was in shock!! He said that I have "taken the bull by the horns" the way I'm taking care of Hank! He said that he's never had anyone do what I'm doing with a diabetic dog or cat before! He told me to keep up the good work and keep sending the updated SS. By the way, that was one of the first things, weeks ago, that he told me he likes the spreadsheet. I did tell him that I'm still nervous about giving the injections and he told be to be "bold"! Ok. He talked to me for about 15 minutes. I did tell him that I want to wait a week and get back to him about switching his insulin. He said that was fine and to call him when I was ready, then we would talk about which insulin to switch him to. I am so happy!!! I feel so much better! Now, which insulin?

Kimmie
 
I will let one of the more experience users explain a little more, but the top three insulin recommended on this board is Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc. I think most people on this board prefer Lantus over the other two. My kitty is on ProZinc and is doing okay - I'm still trying to figure out her dosing, etc. I believe it's just a personal decision as to where to start then if your cat doesn't do well on that insulin after a period of time, you can always switch to something else.
 
I understand, me being a "newbie" also. My vet did talk to me about Prozinc so I think that's which one he's leaning towards. So I've been reading other post about using Prozinc that I typed into the search. I think I like the flexibility with Prozinc and using a sliding scale according to past data. Hmmmmmm. So how do you like using the Prozinc with your sugar kitty?

Kimmie
 
JennyBankers said:
I will let one of the more experience users explain a little more, but the top three insulin recommended on this board is Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc. I think most people on this board prefer Lantus over the other two. My kitty is on ProZinc and is doing okay - I'm still trying to figure out her dosing, etc. I believe it's just a personal decision as to where to start then if your cat doesn't do well on that insulin after a period of time, you can always switch to something else.

There is also one more insulin that works well in cats, PZI by BCP Veterinary Pharmacy. http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/products_bovine.htm I have used it and was very please with how it worked. If you give your vet the link at the bottom of the page, they can order a free vial for you to try it.
 
Kimmied said:
I understand, me being a "newbie" also. My vet did talk to me about Prozinc so I think that's which one he's leaning towards. So I've been reading other post about using Prozinc that I typed into the search. I think I like the flexibility with Prozinc and using a sliding scale according to past data. Hmmmmmm. So how do you like using the Prozinc with your sugar kitty?

Kimmie

Since I work full-time, am single, and have an active social life the ProZinc's flexibility has been very good for me although I do try to keep her on a 12 hour cycle as much as I can. My cat seems to do well on it, but I am still struggling with the appropriate dosing. She was bouncing a lot, so I reverted back to a lower dosage in an attempt to get her to stop bouncing. I think she is finally at the point where she isn't bouncing, but I think she needs a dose increase so we will see what happens (I've heard that bouncy kitties will bounce no matter what insulin they are on though). If I change in the future it will probably be to Lantus, but I plan to stick with ProZinc until the vial is empty or expires before I make any decisions because she is doing good enough on it. From what I've learned in my research, Prozinc is about half the price of Lantus which is why I decided to try that first instead of the Lantus (my vet would have prescribed either).
 
Sounds like you are doing great!
We recently switched from Lantus to Pro Zinc because of the cost. Poto had been well maintained on Lantus for over 6 years and I was hesitant to change. However, he had a hypo episode (mid dose BG 20 :o ) back in the spring and had to be reregulated so we figured it was a good time to make the switch. I estimate the difference in the cost per year between the two is nearly $1000 !! He seems to be doing just fine with the Pro Zinc. Love my kidlets dearly but that's a lot of money when times are this hard.
Hugz,
Carol&Friends
 
Thank you all,
I just updated my (opps, I mean Hanks) SS. Except for today, the numbers and dosage are down since switching hanks food. I did try yesterday for his dinner to try some wet food. I served the "prince" FF savory salmon feast with crumbs of his new kibble on top. He sniffed and...passed! Darn!! I left him alone for a bit and then put some of his new kibble in bowl on top of the wet and...didn't even try it! Argh!! I had to dump and wash his dish before he would eat his dinner! Boy, he is stubborn! I'm not giving up! Next is the tuna trick. I just don't know why he won't eat the wet. Any suggestions?

Kimmie
 
Hi Kimmie-

I have not read through your whole thread only glanced. But noticed you because I TOO had a Hank. He was the love of my life soul kitty. I have never known a sweeter soul, or felt love like that except from my mother. I got on this board with him very sick, vets that I quickly realized were clueless, and a prescription for Lantus. I got onto the Lantus TR forum here at FDMB, learned to test, got a spreadsheet set up, got rid of the dry, switched to a low carb/high protein all canned diet, and heeded their advice. It was scary as I had no idea who these folks were and vets saying to sty away from the internet. But I learned very quickly that the folks here ARE the experts They are treating their cats 24/7 and after a period of time have seen it all. Maybe not any one person has seen it all but as a collective. And they could see patterns in his response when I plugged my numbers in that I could not. They were there at 10:30pM when I got a low # and did not know whether to shoot or not. He was extremely receptive to the changes. A little Lantus jump started his pancreas and I had weened him off insulin in a matter of weeks and he remained diet controlled until the end. But I kept him on the LC canned diet which is critical, as once a diabetic always a diabetic. I split his food into mini meals..6-8 per day which is easier on their pancreas. And added a teaspoon or two of water to each serving..all the extra moisture helped his overall health and his coat was like a bunny rabbit. He remained in remission until the end...right at 4 years. I lost him earlier this year to cancer. But he taught me so much, and our bond grew even deeper through this sugar dance. He understood the things I was doing for him helped make him feel better I think, and he trusted me.
Please do not give up on transitioning to canned food. SO MANY people come here saying the same thing. I am sure you have been lead to Dr. Lisa's wonderful site about why we need to eliminate kibble and feed canned foods. She has all the charts and many wonderful tips on transitioning hard core kibble addicts. http://www.catinfo.org. FYI: I am saying this from experience. His brother would NOT eat canned food. He was a finicky cat who I thought would starve to death if I didn't feed him a certain way. And he is not food motivated at all. But after separating them and feeding as low a carb dry as I could find in the garage so Hank didn't have access, I FINALLY had success. In his case, he is just ridiculously picky...and didn't so much like the health food type cat foods I fed Hank..ie: Evo, wellness, etc.. BUT i figured out he likes liver flavored stuff, and fancy feast. So after all that it was a matter of trial and error. He will eat low carb canned FF BUT only certain flavors. I also use bonito flakes, tuna juice and other things as enticers if necessary. Hank required none of that.
I feel like you without getting off the dry you won't get the results, and I highly recommend Lantus or Levermir. N/Humulin is harsh, not long acting, and not really well suited for cats. You best shot at success is to take these steps in the early stages..that is when they have best shot at remission. Congrats on getting a vet willing to work with you. If you get on Lantus forum and read the stickies, there are great articles including the protocol you can present and share with your vet.
ETA: I also started out w/ ONE touch which I loved. But the strips are really expensive. We had the mini and I bought them off ebay and amazon. Lots of folks here like the relion confirm or mini as the strips are cheaper. Good luck to you and HANK!
 
Thank you Betty,
I need all the encouragement that I can get. I have switched Hank to a low carb dry kibble ( Wysong Epigen dry). After mixing the old food with the new food, he is totally on the low carb kibble as of last Friday. I have talked with my vet about switching his insulin but I don't want to do too much at one time. So probably the end of this week or next week we will make the switch. To what? I'm still not sure of. I'm doing my homework and checking out all possibilities.
As far as switching to wet food, Hank is wearing my patience! I guess I'll get a variety of flavors to try. The liver is a good idea. Should I give him some time to adjust to the new dry? How often should I try the wet food? I tried the tuna and tuna water...and he passed! Argh! I tried burring it under some dry kibble and he refused to eat any of the dry. I'll keep trying. Hank is 11 years old, a bl and wh kitty with a "tough guy" personality. He is one of my grandkitty's from my son, who I have since convincing my son to let me help Hank to get his diabetes under control. Hank isn't regulated yet but at least his numbers aren't in the 700's anymore. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Kimmie
 
My Hank switched to wet food fairly easily...they were already eating some canned, but also were free-fed dry natural 'health food' type kibble. (NO SUCH THING) I immediately yanked this and bought Evo kibble for my other kitty with the idea I would use it to transition Hank slowly, but instead it was cold-turkey off the dry. All I can tell you is it worked.
Try taking a few pieces..maybe 6 or so of the epigen, crumble it to dust and sprinkle on top of the canned food. Be sure you add a teaspoon or two of water to the canned food to make it like mush. Microwaving it for a few seconds helps bring out the flavor.
pet food manufacturers spray kibble with animal digest (google this) to make it palatable otherwise it would taste like cardboard. It is often this 'flavor' they are addicted to. Fortiflora is a probiotic made by Purina that has the same smell as animal digest and can be sprinkled on wet food as an enticer. When my Hank was first diagnosed and I was trying out all these different varieties of canned, he would turn his nose up at some of them and I would assume he didn't like them. But the truth was he did not feel well in the beginning and so wasn't happy with many things. I realized this and would try to coax him.. I would warm his food, bring it to wherever he was and offer him some..even off the tips of my fingers,tried various enticers, and threw out a LOT of food. But once the insulin started working and he began feeling better, the same food he rejected before may be something he now LIKES. He of course had his favorites but I kept a rotation going to keep it interesting. At the end of the day they are cats and they are finicky.
But the diet change made such a huge difference, I was amazed. I had thought I was already feeding them well. I was buying in natural food stores, reading labels, spending a fortune on lean muscle meat, no by product health food, etc..but both dry AND canned. But 'natural' kibble is still kibble and he got diabetes eating it. Eliminating that was key. It just was. And not only did he go into remission, he lost weight he needed to lose, his fur became lustrous, and he became a kitten again with renewed energy. It seemed to take 10 years off his life. His brother on the other hand, exact same age was still eating EV0 'low carb' kibble had itchy dry skin with hot spots, hair grayed, threw up often, and overall just wasn't as healthy. Elvis is now eating much more canned..but is very, very picky. I have to try a million things, flavors, microwave it, mix things with it and throw away lots of uneaten food. He really doesn't like the healthy stuff I want him to eat. But Dr. Lisa says the worst canned is better than the highest end dry. And so if he will eat Fancy Feast then I am happy. He does like liver and fishy stuff, both of which you want to feed them in only in moderation. So i just work those in and am thrilled after all these years of throwing my hands up and saying it was impossible that he is now wanting canned. He already looks better and seems better overall.
Hope you will not postpone the insulin change for long. This is his best shot at remission if he is going there...you want to start treating him correctly early on. I recommend Lantus or Levermir . We have only used Lantus so the only one I can vouch for personally. He did great on it and it helped us on our way to remission in very short time, that and diet change. But I know of others who swear by Levermir. It's similar also being long acting, but has a slightly later nadir. Get him switched and as he feels better so will you.
 
I'm going to suggest you ask for Levemir! It seems to work even better than Lantus for many cats (and as you can I was a Lantus user).

Now if your schedule is an issue, then go with Prozinc, it's a more forgiving insulin and one that allows a bit looser schedule than Levimer.

If schedule is not an issue, meaning you will be consistent with dosing every 12 hours, then go for the levimer - be sure to get a scrip for the pens and not vial.
 
Thank you Hillary,
I think I'm going to go with the Prozinc. 1) because of the flexibility and 2) because of Hanks numbers are all over the board and I can adjust sooner than 3-5 days. I'm off work tomorrow so I think I'm going to call the vet and "get the ball rolling"! I've already talked to Sam's pharmacy and they will have to order the Prozinc in. Not something that they keep in stock. I was able to get some fortiflora and will use it to try to entice Hank to eat the wet food. Any other suggestions are very welcome.

Kimmie
 
prozinc is a good insulin - good luck and remember if you find it isn't working as well you like, you can always change to levimer.....let's hope the prozinc does the job!
 
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