my vet only recommended m/d and DM for my diabetic cat

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mimi1997

mimi1997

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I am lost and confused, and choice of diet becomes my first problem.

My 13 years old male Maine coon (very likely), Mimi, was just diagnosed with diabetes two weeks ago.
I started giving him 2 units of Lantus twice per day since the second day we confirmed.
Mimi is 15 lbs now and vet said he needs to reduce his weight, so I started feeding him Hill's m/d as my vet suggested. We did his one day BG curve at vet's place 6 days later, and keep same does since.

My vet recommended me visiting this website. When I asked her about EVO's canned food. She said she will not recommended others than Hill's m/d and Purina's DM.
I fed my cat SD's dry food in last 13 years, believed I gave my cat good food. So I don't even want to stay another line of this company... but I still followed her guideline on diet choice and keep an eye on choice of canned food after I am getting better to handle my cat's injection and BG test.

However my cat is getting tired of same food (m/d) after two weeks. I want to buy other food, but I don't know how to work with my vet.... I mean like, telling her, no, I don't want to feed him m/d nor MD, m/d contains corn starch and rice flour for sick cats!!

My vet is nice beside the conflict of food selection..... what should I do?
I check Jane & Binky's table but found EVO has lower protein than m/d and other cans.
What's best for my cat? What do you guys feed?
 
Hill's prescription was vet-recommended to me and I'm certain that it led to his diabetic condition. I now use Merrick wet "Cowboy Cookout" and "Grammy's Pot Pie." Not cheap but a great protein/fat/carb mix. Stinky is in remission now and I am certain it was due to his diet change. I know others here have said the same about a few of the Fancy Feast choices as well. I'd assume that they are less expensive than Merrick, which is about a dollar per (5.5 oz) can on amazon.com (not incl tax & shipping) and Stinky is fed 1-and-a-half cans per day.
 
Hi and welcome.

I hope you're having as nice a day in MA as we are here in CT :)

I would switch to canned food, but if you must stay with dry for the time being, Wellness Core or EVO dry would be better than the script stuff.

What would really help your cat the most is if you started to hometest your kitty's blood sugar rather than doing vet curves. Not only is it cheaper, but you could save a lot of heartache for yourself. If this were a human, they would not take insulin without knowing what their blood sugar is. It's the same for our kitties.
 
SaraJaye:
Don't know how reply your post directly... So envy your remission! :)
So did you feed Stinky m/d in the beginning? Does your vet show disagreement when you start to feed Merrick?
 
Hi, Jennifer (Tucker's Mom):
Thanks! It's good to know someone "nearby". I did stay with canned food once his diabetes is diagnosed. (the angry cat at hospital-- his BG was 485 then)
My vet does encourage me to do home testing. ButI had difficult time with pricking my cat, and I was very worried not getting the right does on time, so his first BG curve's done at vet's.
I finally got the first blood reading from my sensitive cat a week ago, one morning before his meal and insulin, 157mg/dl--- which is "good control" according to my vet's guideline. and then another one as 139 this morning .
I may try to do one curve in next few days.
 
Those are great numbers that you got. Close to normal range. Since you've changed the diet the blood sugar is going to start coming down naturally. 2U of Lantus BID (twice per day) may be too high of a dose.

Do you think you could get some spot checks? Test the BG (Blood glucose number) a few hours after the shot and maybe a few hours before the next to see how he's reacting to the Lantus.
 
yes, Jen, I am going to do a few after injection, I am still very nervous by pricking, wish me a calm cat...I give him a Purebite treat after injection or BG test.
 
Jen: i sent you a pm by mistake, don't know how to use a lot of things here yet.
I visit your spread sheet-- don't know how to use nor read it yet... do you have two cats on insulin?
 
I did have two on insulin, but Bean went off insulin. She is diet controlled. I have not updated the spreadsheet because Tucker is different from many kitties since he has some other illnesses going on and has to take different pills and a steroid.

No worries about the PM :)
 
You might see if your vet is "trainable" - print out the info from Dr Lisa Pierson's web site and give it to your vet. CatInfo.Org

Then take a good look at Binky's website - to reduce weight, the fat must be considered along with the carbohydrate levels. Typically, fat is used when carbs are not, as both are cheaper than protein. Lower fat products will generally have lower calories per serving. There are some canned products which are low carb and moderate fat, with decent protein values, you just need to hunt through the list to find ones that'll work for you. Take a look at the WalMart Special Kitty products, for example. Some of those could be used.

And my vet set Spitzer home with the Purina DM wet & dry ... on 3 units of insulin twice a day. Now on low carb, and he's down somewhere around .5 units (still titrating!)
 
mimi1997 said:
My vet recommended me visiting this website. When I asked her about EVO's canned food. She said she will not recommended others than Hill's m/d and Purina's DM.
Click to expand...

Well, that's all it is. A recommendation on food. Do you have to go along with it? No. It's *your* cat and you make the decisions. No vet can force you to feed X brand of food or do X treatment. If one does, better find a new vet.


mimi1997 said:
My vet is nice beside the conflict of food selection..... what should I do?
Click to expand...

Tell her nicely but firmly that you will not feed the prescription food. End of discussion. Any good vet will respect the bean's decision and continue to work with them on the other parts of treatment.

mimi1997 said:
I check Jane & Binky's table but found EVO has lower protein than m/d and other cans.
What's best for my cat? What do you guys feed?
Click to expand...

Any low carb commercial canned food is better for your cat than prescription junk. Easier on the wallet, too, and more palatable to the cat. Some people feed RAW, either homemade or a commerical brand, in addition to canned or they just feed 100% RAW.

There is no "best" brand of canned food to feed. Feed your cat whatever brand he/she likes to eat and you can afford. Fancy Feast is fine if that's all your cat will eat. There are many other brands you can feed. Just check the food chart and look for the ones that have a number 10 or less in the carb column: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

Feed low carb treats as well. Many big name commerical brands (Friskies, Pounce, etc) are filled with high carb junky ingredients. 100% meat treats are best. These are usually freeze dried. Here's a list of popular low carb treats: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172
 
I would like to clarify why we say there are other foods better than MD and DM. But first, is your vet recommending canned or dry? The canned versions aren't great but are much better than the dry.

DM and MD meet a basic requirement for diabetics, in that they have less carbs than other foods. But while the 'numbers' are great, the ingredients aren't. Pork, corn, liver, etc. are not the best protein sources for cats, and yet these foods are expensive. Many cats don't like eating DM for long and it appears your cat doesn't like MD either.

When picking a food, you need to look at the quality of ingredients as well as the protein-carb-fat balance. You should also consider raw or canned over dry food because dry food has fewer nutrients due to the cooking process and can dehydrate your cat, leading to potential kidney and urinary issues. As suggested, Dr Lisa's site is a great reference.

Vets don't know everything, and unfortunately they get very little real education about nutrition; what they do get tends to come from Hills.

Jen
 
Our vet was the same, told us no food but DM for the rest of his days. No treats either. And no human food, not even plain chicken or beef! I learned a lot here so far. Imagine that, saying DM is ok, but not real food such as chicken from my plate.

I switched Scruffy over to Merrick Cowboy Cookout and his numbers came down that night. So far he is doing much better.
Educate yourself and do what you believe is best when it comes to food. Our boys have been on Hills C/D for years. Now I learn how bad it actually was for them.
 
I have a newly diagnosed kitty as well, and I was also told to move her to DM. I had been feeding EVO canned cat/kitten formula (the chicken/turkey variety) up until then because it was the highest protein to carb ratio diet I could find in store bought pet food. After my first day here I started comparing the labels of DM to the EVO and discovered (to my dismay) that the EVO still had less carbs in it than the DM does! I called my vet last night and left her a message with that information and asked her to call me.

I'm lucky in that I've had a good working relationship with my vet. My cat has other health issues, and we've worked closely to get those under control. I'm hoping that she'll agree that the EVO formula will continue to be optimal under these conditions. Ultimately it is going to be my decision as to what food I'll be using, but I'm hoping that discussing this with my vet will keep her comfortable with my decision.

I know a lot of people here are big on Fancy Feast, and it does have a lot of good numbers. I'm personally shy of it because many of the Fancy Feasts have high sodium content, but in diabetes that is secondary to keeping the carb content low and making sure your cat continues to eat.
 
FYI, I was reading one of the links on here and if the info was correct the DM wet food had very good numbers. However, it is $2 for a 5.5oz can at the vet. Lots of equal alternatives for less. Not to mention I checked the labes and it (DM) starts with beef and chicken byproducts right away...... :o
 
My vet had insisted on R/D for years - subsequently I found out it was more than 1/3 carbs. And yes, he was pushing for DM but I'd already decided on Merrick. Frankly, I didn't bother to hear whether or not he disagreed. I'd wanted to take him home the day after his dx,but vet flipped his lid - so I kept him there for 2 more days and demanded that the techs feed him the food that I brought with me, and that they halve his insulin dose. TRUST ME- the people on this board know more about treating diabetes than many vets.

mimi1997 said:
SaraJaye:
Don't know how reply your post directly... So envy your remission! :)
So did you feed Stinky m/d in the beginning? Does your vet show disagreement when you start to feed Merrick?
Click to expand...
 
Since you're looking to reduce his weight, in addition to controlling his diabetes, try this:

Print out the canned food list from Binky's page.

1) cross out anything with more than 10% carbs
2) cross out anything with less than 40% protein

This leaves you with the more moderate fat items.

Also, per Dr Pierson's web site CatInfo.Org "When fed as a supplement to most commercial canned foods, it is safe to feed ~15% of the daily calories in the form of plain meat."

That means you could go to the local butcher/grocery and pick up some very, very lean meat and grind or cut up it somewhat (if he'll bite it off in bits, great - mine couldn't seem to figure that out after eating dry and canned pate all their lives!!!), and give roughly 1 oz per every 6.5 oz or more of canned.

Be sure to read over her page on feline obesity too - you don't want your kitty to lose weight too fast.
 
BJM said:
Since you're looking to reduce his weight, in addition to controlling his diabetes, try this:

Print out the canned food list from Binky's page.

1) cross out anything with more than 10% carbs
2) cross out anything with less than 40% protein

This leaves you with the more moderate fat items.

Also, per Dr Pierson's web site CatInfo.Org "When fed as a supplement to most commercial canned foods, it is safe to feed ~15% of the daily calories in the form of plain meat."

That means you could go to the local butcher/grocery and pick up some very, very lean meat and grind or cut up it somewhat (if he'll bite it off in bits, great - mine couldn't seem to figure that out after eating dry and canned pate all their lives!!!), and give roughly 1 oz per every 6.5 oz or more of canned.

Be sure to read over her page on feline obesity too - you don't want your kitty to lose weight too fast.
Click to expand...

Excellent advise. I figured out years ago that it was cheaper for us to go to the store and buy fresh chicken, lean GB than it was to buy the food our cats ate then, Hills C/D. Kind of crazy when you think about it. After learning here that its ok to do this we will have to start giving them some snacks like this.

Don't mean to hi-jack, but does anyone have any input on canned tuna as a snack/treat from time to time?
 
Scruffy said:
Don't mean to hi-jack, but does anyone have any input on canned tuna as a snack/treat from time to time?
Click to expand...

I can't give you any carbs or calories on tuna, but I can tell you that my cats get this as an occasional treat. We also use freeze dried tuna flakes (Catmandoo brand, sometimes Kitty Kaviar) and freeze dried chicken for treats.
 
Well, all that info is on the can :lol: , unlike pet food. I was just wondering about the fish, I had read some things about limiting fish intake. I read some more of the Catinfo.org today and got some clarification. On the tuna I have here at home there is 0% carbs in tuna, lots of sodium but it would only be given as a treat maybe once every two weeks or so.
 
I have found a water pack, no salt added canned tuna at Krogers, which may be acceptable in moderation.

And I believe Trader Joe's has a tuna for cats which is the dark meat version, so tastier to the cat.
 
i avoided arguing altogether. my vet did talk me into buying a case of DM when cleo was first diagnosed but she ate one can and refused more so i returned it. purina has a full money back guarantee.

i just told my vet money is an issue for me (it is), and i can find cheaper food with just as good if not better ingredients right at the pet supply store. so i buy fancy feast, wellness or evo grain free, thanksgiving day feast (merrick's), and sometimes even friskies. learned later that the vet who helped develop DM and coholds the patent on it doesn't even recommend it. she recommends low carb fancy feast instead, because the protein sources for DM are not as good. no sense paying more money for lower quality food even tho it is fine for diabetics.

most vets really won't pursue this further -- they'll just ask every once in a while what you're feeding your cat and write it down. i think i've only heard of one vet who refused to work with his client after that (and he didn't want her to home test, which i'm sure was an even bigger issue. we STRENUOUSLY recommend home testing. it is the best way to know how your cat is doing with diabetes from moment to moment. i like someone's description that shooting insulin without testing is like trying to drive with a paper bag over your head). in this day and age everyone understands that money is tight and not everyone can afford expensive prescription food. i really wouldn't give it another thought.

just be firm but nice about it. :)
 
My vet recommended W/D for my diabetic cat, however, it was after a hypoglycemic episode that I had switched her immediately that night to wet food. Fancy Feast. She's been fine since.

I highly recommend wet food to any cat. Just need to research what would be right for your cat.
 
::::: just told my vet money is an issue for me (it is),

::::::most vets really won't pursue this further -- they'll just ask every once in a while what you're feeding your cat and write it down.

Brilliant and true. I think cost issues come up fairly early at Vet school. It's the one thing they don't seem to argue about. As long as you can pay their fee.

So many people seem worried about offending their vet. I have reached the age of wisdom therefore I have learned to work on a 'need to know' basis. Why tell someone something you know will worry (upset) them? The other thing about being older is that you seem to be able to say what you think without expecting offence. Those who take offence appear too foolish to take seriously so I don't get offended. Just tell myself they have a lot more growing/learning to do yet.

Our vet acted like he was trying to figure out whether to report us for cruelty to animals re the bg testing but he converted very quickly. I swapped to raw very early in the process but have since relented on fancy feast - one sometimes two tins a day. Little Boy's numbers have come down dramatically since eating mostly raw (free range) breast chicken. Generally speaking it's the same price as fancy feast- $1 a tin in OZ. I'm not sure of this but I'm wondering if it's the low fat part that has dropped his levels so dramatically in the last month. He is getting bored with the chicken but he's allergic to beef.

You don't have to tell your vet what you are feeding your kitty.
 
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