My Pippin

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kelthulu

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Hi, all.

This is my first post, so I hope I'm doing it right...

My cat, Pippin, is a 7 year old neutered male tuxedo cat. On Oct 31 this year, he was diagnosed with diabetes and pancreatitis. He spent two days in the hospital - fortunately he never became ketoacidotic and they were able to get his blood sugars under control pretty quickly.

We were doing well for a while on 2 units of Lantus twice daily, and then we brought him to our vet for a glucose curve. He failed that miserably, so we upped his dose to 3 units twice daily on 11/15. He had been doing okay on that, and then I dropped the Lantus pretty hard, and it seemed to stop working. I'm a nurse, so I like to think I know how to handle insulins - I didn't think it'd make that big of a difference but his sugars started improving when we switched to a new vial.

He had an overnight stay on 11/18 - his appetite was very poor and he was dehydrated. With an appetite stimulant and overnight IV fluids, he's improved. However....

One of the issues we had prior to all this was that he had diarrhea for a couple weeks. It remained uncontrolled until after the second hospitalization, when we switched him to W/D. Since then, his diarrhea has been gone. However, Pippin continues to lose weight. Prior to his first hospitalization, he was 19 lbs. This was down from 21, and it's that weight loss and some lethargy and not acting right that caused us to bring him to the emergency vet in the first place when we got him diagnosed. Pippin is now 16-16.5 lbs.

I feel like I'm probably doing everything wrong, here. His blood sugars aren't yet well-regulated - we did a fructosamine level last week and it was in the 500s, but the vet wanted to wait and watch him on the 3 units bid. He's losing weight. I don't know what I should be feeding him or when, any more. We have to give the insulin at noon and midnight, because my husband's schedule varies daily and I work evenings. But then we feed him (and his three kitty siblings) four small meals a day - one around 7-9 AM, one at noon before I go to work, one at 7-8 PM when the husband gets home and then one at midnight.

Over the past day, his appetite has been off. He wasn't that into breakfast (which was the W/D we had him on), but then we tried DM at lunch. He ate that really well, then ate well again at the 7 PM feeding. The midnight feeding, he didn't want the DM. He ate a bunch of what the other cats eat, which is Tiki Cat or a Weruva canned food. I am at a loss, and I don't know if he's just being finicky now (which he never used to be) or if something's wrong. He's active, he played with me today, he's urinating, he's drinking.... His coat looks good. His blood sugars were 277 at 9 AM and then 364 at 6:30 PM. Those were both before that particular meal, with insulin at noon and then midnight tonight.

In terms of diagnostics, when he was first diagnosed, they did an abdominal ultrasound, and they found his pancreas was inflammed, but no thickening of the gut wall or anything suggestive of lymphoma. His kidneys were hyperechoic, and although they didn't find bacteria in his urine, we treated him for a presumptive UTI. The second hospitalization, they did a chest x-ray just to make sure there was nothing suggestive of cancer there - it was clean. We've done a TLI, and it came back normal (that was around the second hospitalization).

Tomorrow is weighing day, and I'm terrified he'll have lost more weight. :( I am completely overwhelmed and I don't know what to do to make him better. I don't know when I should worry and when I shouldn't. I've talked to my vet, and he's really fantastic, calls back immediately - we were assuming this latest appetite weirdness was because he had gotten sick of the W/D. I can't stop crying because I'm so worried that I'm going to lose Pippin. Logically, I think that he's doing okay, since he's active, playing, doing all the things that he wasn't doing when he was first diagnosed. But then there are the little things, like his sudden pickiness over food, and the weight loss... I'm sick with worry.

Do I just need to be patient and accept this is a chronic illness, and that there are going to be good days and bad days? I just want him to be better. :(

I'm so sorry to make my first post such a giant info-dump and freak out, but I don't know where else to go. Please be kind in your replies, and thank you so much in advance for any support or suggestions you can offer.
 
Hello and welcome to you and Pippin! Sounds like you guys have been through a lot, and you are a little overwhelmed. This is normal :-D everyone arrives in much the same state. Diabetes is complicated and there is a lot to learn.

You are using Lantus, which is a good insulin for cats. It is a long-acting insulin with a good success rate, that lots of people here use. Are you home-testing? (If not, let us know, we can help you with that.) If you are, great! and can you list some more of the numbers you have been getting? This will give everyone a better idea of how well Pippin is regulated. Readings taken at the vet tend to be higher than normal, because kitty is stressed.

Is Pippin eating wet food or dry? Many, many of the cats who end up here are eating dry food, which is much higher in carbs than wet food. Most of us try to feed a lower carb wet food to help control insulin needs. It doesn't need to be prescription food - I personally feed Fancy Feast Classics (pate-style with no gravy) and so do many others.

One big thing that jumps out at me about your post is the mention of pancreatitis. Pancreatitis is common in diabetic cats, and will cause them to not want to eat and therefore lose weight. Did your vet give you any anti-nausea meds (like ondansetron) or pain meds (like buprenorphine)? Pancreatitis is painful but can be treated, and this might help Pippin to have a better appetite.

Others, who are more knowledgeable, will be along (probably in the morning) with more information and help for you. I just wanted to welcome you and let you know you are in the right place! Good luck to you and Pippin.
 
Not a Lantus user so no help there but........W/D is so old school for diabetic cats. It is actually used for weight reduction in cats......nothing but fiber. Pippin would do much better on canned only food and probably be a lot happier with it because there is at least flavor. I would strongly suggest you learn how to hometest because W/D is loaded with carbs whereas canned food has much less. Removing high carb content without hometesting is dangerous because now the insulin dose may be too high and you risk a hypo.
 
Thank you both for the replies. :)

Pippin is eating canned food only. The W/D canned food (sorry, I wasn't clear before that it's canned) was a last ditch effort to see if we could stop the diarrhea - and it worked, but now he's not interested in it. Yesterday, he was interested in the canned DM, but late last night and this morning, he wouldn't touch it. He just wanted the super-fishy canned Tiki Cat. I know it's not the ideal, but he ate it, at least. :-/

I am home testing his blood sugars. I've kind of been picking random times of the day to try to get a sense of where he is at any given time. So, recently, with feedings of canned food @ 7A, 12P, 7P & 12A and 3 units of lantus bid @ 12 & 12...
12/10 @1130 - 375
12/10 @ 1800 - 289
12/10 @ 2100 - 326
12/11 @ 1130 - 259
12/11 @ 1830 - 290
12/12 @ 1200 - 267
12/12(13) @ 0030 - 345
12/13 @ 1045 - 246
12/13(14) @ 0045 - 420 (argh!) - this is when he started not eating as well, this meal
12/14 @ 0900 - 277
12/14 @ 1839 - 364 (he ate well after these - noon and 7 P, DM, then didn't eat well at midnight)
12/15 @ 1000 - 364 (he didn't eat a great breakfast, but he did eat. Only wanted the super fishy flavor.)

To answer the other question, no, we don't have any ondansetron or buprenorphine (haha, I just edited this - I typed buproprion. Pain med, not antidepressant, silly...). He is not acting like a cat in pain - he's active, doesn't seem to have a sensitive belly, no foul flatulence (which is how he got when he was first diagnosed and when he had his second hospital stay), no diarrhea, no vomiting. We are giving him pepcid daily, and have been since the second hospital stay.

The other thing I have is mirtazipine, to stimulate his appetite, and I'm considering giving him a dose. Thoughts?

Thank you for your help! I'm still pretty overwhelmed but trying to take it one moment at a time.
 
Welcome Pippin!
The w/d food that the vet gave my kittie was only 'good' to her for about 2 days, then she would not eat it at all. Tried all I could, finger feeding, spoon feeding and nothing. Then she would eat it again, I think she just got hungry and got tired of me following her around with a spoon. We listened to folks here, and changed to store bought food, f. feast chicken - she was alll better. No other medical problems tho, so I just figured it was she did not like the food. Anytime I changed the types of food, I would watch for problems from the other end. Sometimes there would be and sometimes she would be fine. I also have some Pro-Pectalin that the vet prescribed. I keep this on hand and have used it a couple of times after calling the vet for an ok. It seems to take care of the problem after about 2 doses.
Glad to see you are home testing!!
 
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

At the top of FDMB you will see many headings for the different forums. I am sending you the link for Lantus...Tight Regulation because that is where all the stickies are that you really should read. Scroll down and you will see all the info how Lantus works, is handled, storing, etc.

There is also a Relaxed Lantus forum but you need to read the stickies first and decide which forum you will feel comfortable posting on.

If you ever need immediate help, then post on FDMB Health and if it is an emergency put the 911 icon on the subject line.

Glad to know you are hometesting too :thumbup
 
Just talked to our vet. He isn't sure if it's just pickiness or a flare up of the pancreatitis, but the plan is to see how he does today. He's eating, definitely, and just had a half can of his favorite food ever (tiki cat, which I just checked and it's about 4% carbs). If he stops eating altogether, we do the mirtazipine. If he eats, but not as well, he goes to the vet in the AM for an exam and probably IV fluids & antibiotics to treat a flare-up of pancreatitis, after his exam. I hope we can get him out of another hospital stay - I don't mind the expense, but I do mind putting poor Pippin through it! (The hospital we take him to is a 24-hour place w/ a kitty ICU, right around the corner from the hospital I work at. They adore Pippin. Pippin is in love with one of the vets there. I think he likes her better than he likes me!)

If we go that route, taking him in tomorrow, I will request zofran and buprenorphine to help if this should happen again. I am sort of suspecting a flare up because this is how the last one started AND his blood sugars are running high.

Do any of you deal with chronic pancreatitis in your kitties? Our poor vet is going to regret giving me his cell number. ;)
 
kelthulu said:
Just talked to our vet. He isn't sure if it's just pickiness or a flare up of the pancreatitis, but the plan is to see how he does today.


Here's some info about diabetic cats with pancreatitis: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,876722,876722#msg-876722

Here's a list of foods to feed a diabetitic cat with pancreatitis: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,1259368 Low fat/medium carb seems to work for most cats. It's an old list so some of the values may be outdated. Check Binky's list and this newer list for current values and new foods that are suitable.

He's eating, definitely, and just had a half can of his favorite food ever (tiki cat, which I just checked and it's about 4% carbs).

Tiki Cat is low carb but unfortunatley all seafood based. Seafood tends to be high in phosphorus, which can be hard on the kidneys, and some types of fish can be contaminated with mercury. And some cats get addcited to eating seafood and will refuse to eat meat like chicken or turkey. Limit seafood to once in awhile meals or treats. Is there another brand of food your cat will eat?
 
squeem3 said:
kelthulu said:
Just talked to our vet. He isn't sure if it's just pickiness or a flare up of the pancreatitis, but the plan is to see how he does today.


Here's some info about diabetic cats with pancreatitis: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,876722,876722#msg-876722

Here's a list of foods to feed a diabetitic cat with pancreatitis: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,1259368 Low fat/medium carb seems to work for most cats. It's an old list so some of the values may be outdated. Check Binky's list and this newer list for current values and new foods that are suitable.

He's eating, definitely, and just had a half can of his favorite food ever (tiki cat, which I just checked and it's about 4% carbs).

Tiki Cat is low carb but unfortunatley all seafood based. Seafood tends to be high in phosphorus, which can be hard on the kidneys, and some types of fish can be contaminated with mercury. And some cats get addcited to eating seafood and will refuse to eat meat like chicken or turkey. Limit seafood to once in awhile meals or treats. Is there another brand of food your cat will eat?


The Tiki Cat was not something I was considering as a long-term thing - I wanted to make sure he ate today. However, Pippin just vomited a lot, so he's spending an afternoon at the vet. :(

I will take a look at the links you provided - thank you so much!
 
Just a quick update... Pippin spent the afternoon at the vet, had some bloodwork drawn and got some SQ fluids. He got home and we gave him mirtazipine, and he's been eating well since, and he's perked up. Going to see what the night and morning bring, and go from there. My poor little guy.
 
And another update... Pippin was fairly perky this AM, ate well, but we got the bloodwork back from our vet. Elevated BUN/Creatinine, so something kidney related. Argh. Pippin is hospitalized, getting fluids and we're hoping it's either pyelonephritis or dehydration d/t unregulated blood sugars. We'll see. They're repeating an abdominal ultrasound, and we're going from there. It's a great facility, and Pippin has done well with his other hospitalizations there, so I'm hopeful. He's been admitted by the internal medicine specialist, rather than the emergency vets, so that's a good thing. And Pippin's favorite vet is on tomorrow, so at least that will make him happy. Overall, the internal medicine specialist said that doesn't look awful, just that we need to hydrate him and do some investigating, and simultaneously work on getting those BGs controlled. May switch from Lantus to PZI.

Edited to add: Ultrasound results back. Large kidneys. Infection vs. lymphoma. I feel like vomiting. I'm not ready to lose Pippin. :( :( :(
 
Hope + (((Baby)))GA said:
Think good thoughts only. Sending a prayer that Pippin will be fine and that it is not lymphoma.
Thank you, Hope. Preliminary results were negative for lymphoma. We'll find out for sure Monday. My husband and I went to see him tonight, and he looked miserable. :( Still trying not to freak out. I want my little guy to make it home, and I'm scared he's not going to. He's stable, according to the vet & nurse, and now we're just waiting to see how he responds.
 
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