My Nikko was just diagnosed with diabetes.

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Suzy Shy

Suzy Shy

Member Since 2015
My 7 year old, neutered male, otherwise VERY healthy cat was just diagnosed with diabetes. I took him to the vet yesterday, concerned because he has been losing weight, and they just called me with the diagnosis a couple hours ago. He has lost 2 pounds since March, always thirsty, eating ravenously, and just recently started urinating on our bath mats since (I guess) he couldn't make it to any of the litterboxes which are all located at the other end of the house. There are currently 3 other cats in our household - one of whom (Quincy) the vet thought was at risk for diabetes, so I've had him on a diet for over a year. Nikko has always been so healthy! I'm devastated. I'm taking him in to the vet first thing in the morning so they can show me how to give him insulin shots. Is there anything I should be cautious of? I feel guilty because Nikko LOVES treats, and I tend to spoil him and give him as much as he wants. Could that have been the cause of his diabetes? All the cats have always been on dry food diet - they really don't even like wet food. I'm very nervous about switching his diet, the expense, and how I will be able to feed him apart from the other cats. Quincy is already separated because he gets measured, low-cal food, where the other cats get to eat as much as they want, but I put it out twice a day. Plus treats. :-(
 
Niko can still have treats - just low carb ones. PureBites and Bonito Flakes are popular at my house.

I hope your vet will give you one of the mild, long lasting insulins (Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc) and start at a low dose (one unit every 12 hours)

Wet low carb food is one of the best things you can do for a diabetic cat, and for the other cats in your household. A vet explains why here: www.catinfo.org. BUT you want to be hometesting first, as wet low carb food can lower blood glucose levels by 100+ points.

Keep reading on the site and ask questions. We'd love to help you help Niko.
 
Thank you very much. I'm glad to have found this site. Where do you get the PureBites or Bonito flakes?
 
I get PureBites at Pet Smart. I buy the dog sized bag and crush them up. Bonito flakes are available at pet stores also or you can buy them in Chinese markets, very expensive for a large bag. They are dried fish flakes.
 
Thank you! What is OTJ? So sorry about your Oliver. I've had cats all my life, but the only other one I had with diabetes was 19 1/2 when she was diagnosed, and died two weeks later. Needless to say I'm very nervous.
 
I, too, have a cat who was just recently diagnosed (beginning of December). There's definitely a lot to learn - just trying to negotiate is the most difficult. We have six other cats - all with their idiosyncrasies when it comes to food. Thankfully, our sugarcat, Joshi, loves pate-style foods, which most of the low-carb tend to be. However, getting the other cats on board has been more challenging. We're just doing things slowly - weening our dry-food addicts off the kibble is going to be difficult (if at all possible :(). So, you're not alone. Reading through posts on this board as well as the many links on the main page have been extremely helpful.

Even though I'm still a newbie at caring for a diabetic cat, I can say with confidence that it really does get easier. Joshi takes her insulin shots like a champ and is already improving. We're still working on doing BG testing - mostly trying to get over my OWN nerves on that one, but we'll get there. Don't beat yourself up over what caused Nikko's diabetes - you'll do fine going forward. :)
 
OTJ means off the juice or " in remission". I hope we can help you with Niko and get him happy and healthy. The way is with a mild insulin, home testing and a low carb diet.
 
I guess I'll know a lot more after meeting with the vet tomorrow. I'm not as nervous about the insulin shots - I had a cat with kidney disease and got pretty good at giving the sub-Q fluids - but the idea of glucose-testing makes me nervous.
 
Suzy Shy said:
I guess I'll know a lot more after meeting with the vet tomorrow. I'm not as nervous about the insulin shots - I had a cat with kidney disease and got pretty good at giving the sub-Q fluids - but the idea of glucose-testing makes me nervous.
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Had few cats with chronic renal failure (CRF) - when we brought Joshi in, I was so sure that they were going to tell us it was her kidneys. I was actually relieved when they said she was diabetic. Well, maybe "relieved" isn't the right word, but you probably know what I mean.
 
LaraB said:
Had few cats with chronic renal failure (CRF) - when we brought Joshi in, I was so sure that they were going to tell us it was her kidneys. I was actually relieved when they said she was diabetic. Well, maybe "relieved" isn't the right word, but you probably know what I mean.
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I do, although I was kind of the opposite - I figured he had hyperthyroid (have also had a couple cats with that) - was shocked to get the diabetes diagnosis. He wasn't overweight and was otherwise healthy.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Suzy,

Just popped in to ask how yourself and Nikko are getting on.


Mogs
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Hi there! Thank you for thinking of us! The vet had prescribed 2 ml of ProZinc twice a day, which I've been doing since last Wednesday. I have to take him in again this Friday to re-check everything. I've quite giving him treats, but when he asks, I just give him a little FancyFeast, and he's very happy about that! I've noticed some decrease in his drinking & peeing, so we'll see what the vet says when I bring him in. His numbers weren't terribly high to start with, apparently (281). Vet said 170 is normal, 150 is ideal, and they don't worry too much about anything under 250. The ironic thing is, I've had our other cat, Quincy, on a diet for the last year & 1/2 because the vet said he was at risk for diabetes - so I've got him down to 14 lbs. from 18 (trying to get him down one more). Then Nikko is the one who ends up with it. Can't win, I guess. Nikko has always been our most healthy one - not a single problem in the 7 years I've had him, till now. Frustrating.
 
Suzy Shy said:
I've noticed some decrease in his drinking & peeing ...
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Ooh good! We like hearing news like this. It's direct evidence that Nikko is getting better. :cat:

While every cat is different and there may be some variation from cat to cat, vets tend to use 250 as a rough estimate of where the renal threshold is. The renal threshold is the point where glucose starts tipping over into the cat's urine - obviously not good for the kidneys.

What food is Quincy eating?


Mogs
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Up until Nikko's diagnosis last week, I've had all our cats on dry food, but I don't free-feed - give them some in the morning and then again in the evening. Treats or a few pieces of kibble if they wanted a snack in between. My giving Nikko the FancyFeast as treats is my way of easing him into switching him over - but didn't want to do it until I take him back to the vet on Friday. Nikko and our other cat, Bruce, have been on Wellness dry food. Quincy has been on dry Fat Cat. Since he's pretty much at his goal weight, I was just going to finish off the bag he's on now, and then switch him to what the other ones are eating. Both Quincy and Nikko will have NO PROBLEM going to the Fancy Feast classic - they LOVE it. Bruce will be more of a problem - wants nothing to do with it.
 
That's a lot of juggling!

I'm glad you're considering switching all your cats to low carb, wet food. It is so much better for them. The first thing you notice is how incredibly soft a kitty's coat becomes when switched to a species appropriate diet. I see Sue gave you the link to catinfo.org. It's a very straightforward site about feline nutritional needs written by vet Dr Lisa Pierson. Definitely recommended reading. It has a very useful section on how to tempt dry food addicts away from the Dark Side. You might find some helpful tips to help you with transitioning Bruce to the new food.

Like you, I used to feed all dry to my little ones. Saoirse started putting on weight after a vet prescribed a urinary protection dry prescription food for her after she had some oxalate uroliths removed. Thereafter it was one Rx food after another and Saoirse was on miniscule portions of food with very little impact on her weight. I now know she had an allergic reaction to the prescription food (her tummy went bald. Vet at the time put it down to 'bored indoor kitty stress' but as soon as Saoirse switched to species appropriate wet food her fur started growing back immediately. I think the allergic reaction to the Rx food plus its high carb content were the root causes of Saoirse's diabetes and pancreatitis. It may be encouraging for you to hear that since transitioning to wet low-carb food, I have had no problem keeping Saoirse at her target weight and she now has a decent amount to eat. I bought an inexpensive digital baby scales to weigh her at home, and I keep a log of how much I feed her every day (number of pouches - nothing too complicated). If she starts to gain, I reduce her food allowance a little; if she starts to lose, I increase it. It is soooooo much easier.

With regard to transitioning Nikko to a lower carb food now he's on insulin, there really needs to be close, real time monitoring of blood glucose during the transition: even from the start of the transition the low carb food can make for quite a dramatic decrease in blood sugar levels and his current dose may need to be adjusted. Home testing as the changeover takes place will help keep Nikko safe. Are you home testing at the moment?


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
That's a lot of juggling!

I'm glad you're considering switching all your cats to low carb, wet food. It is so much better for them. The first thing you notice is how incredibly soft a kitty's coat becomes when switched to a species appropriate diet. I see Sue gave you the link to catinfo.org. It's a very straightforward site about feline nutritional needs written by vet Dr Lisa Pierson. Definitely recommended reading. It has a very useful section on how to tempt dry food addicts away from the Dark Side. You might find some helpful tips to help you with transitioning Bruce to the new food.

Like you, I used to feed all dry to my little ones. Saoirse started putting on weight after a vet prescribed a urinary protection dry prescription food for her after she had some oxalate uroliths removed. Thereafter it was one Rx food after another and Saoirse was on miniscule portions of food with very little impact on her weight. I now know she had an allergic reaction to the prescription food (her tummy went bald. Vet at the time put it down to 'bored indoor kitty stress' but as soon as Saoirse switched to species appropriate wet food her fur started growing back immediately. I think the allergic reaction to the Rx food plus its high carb content were the root causes of Saoirse's diabetes and pancreatitis. It may be encouraging for you to hear that since transitioning to wet low-carb food, I have had no problem keeping Saoirse at her target weight and she now has a decent amount to eat. I bought an inexpensive digital baby scales to weigh her at home, and I keep a log of how much I feed her every day (number of pouches - nothing too complicated). If she starts to gain, I reduce her food allowance a little; if she starts to lose, I increase it. It is soooooo much easier.

With regard to transitioning Nikko to a lower carb food now he's on insulin, there really needs to be close, real time monitoring of blood glucose during the transition: even from the start of the transition the low carb food can make for quite a dramatic decrease in blood sugar levels and his current dose may need to be adjusted. Home testing as the changeover takes place will help keep Nikko safe. Are you home testing at the moment?


Mogs
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I am not. Wouldn't even know where to begin.
 
If you'd like to learn, we can help you. There are lots of tutorials and tips here. Let me know and I'll post some links for you.
 
I saw one frightening video by a vet who suggested using needles instead of lancets to get the blood out of her cat's ear and it took two people to do it, and that poor cat's ear looked all chewed up. Eeeek!! I'm not great with needles & blood - although got a little better when I had a cat with kidney disease & I had to give her sub-Q fluids every day. If you've got a better video to post, I'll look at it, or any other info. I asked my vet (who I trust) about it and he didn't seem to think it was necessary at this time - but I also didn't say anything about switching food. I DO want to keep Nikko safe (my kitties are not just my pets, they're my babies), but it's all so confusing and scary.
 
Here's one of the better video's on how to home test

If you live in the US, WalMart has their Relion Confirm or Micro meters that are big favorites around here because they take the tiniest sample and the strips are affordable

When you first start, you want to use lancets (again available at WalMart or any pharmacy with diabetes supplies) that are for "alternate site testing"....these are usually 25-28 gauge.....The lancets that come with the "lancet devices" are usually 33 gauge which are too tiny for "new" ears. The lower the gauge number, the bigger the "hole" it makes (but you're right..I've seen some videos with people using 18 gauge needles which look like harpoons to me!!)

Here's something I wrote up for others that needed help with testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
 
Suzy Shy said:
I saw one frightening video by a vet who suggested using needles instead of lancets to get the blood out of her cat's ear and it took two people to do it, and that poor cat's ear looked all chewed up. Eeeek!! I'm not great with needles & blood - although got a little better when I had a cat with kidney disease & I had to give her sub-Q fluids every day. If you've got a better video to post, I'll look at it, or any other info. I asked my vet (who I trust) about it and he didn't seem to think it was necessary at this time - but I also didn't say anything about switching food. I DO want to keep Nikko safe (my kitties are not just my pets, they're my babies), but it's all so confusing and scary.
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I think I saw the video you're referring to (with vet using a needle) - that one made me ill watching. :( The needle was HUGE.

Even with all the "misfires" I have had with the lancet pen - Joshi really only measure mild annoyance at best - and it's usually when I take too long messing with her ears to warm them up. Thank goodness because my aim was horrible those first couple of times. It still takes me a few tries, but I'm getting much better at judging where to place the lancet. I don' t even really have to restrain her...I just approach her when she's settled down, flop down next to her, start lovin' her up (which, good god, she LOVES), and then proceed with the ear poke. Frankly, she's more freaked out having her claws clipped (which I'm sure raised her BG 100 points this weekend).

I use the the Relion Confirm monitor I picked up at Walmart...it only takes a very small drop of blood for a sufficient sample and is very easy to use. I actually tried it out on my myself first, just to get a sense of what it felt like. That, more than anything, made it less intimidating - plus, hey, got a "free" check of my own BG. ;)
 
Erm ... vets may not be the best marks to consult when it comes to good home testing technique.

After seeing vet techs trying to test Saoirse just after she was diagnosed and getting a curve run at the practice I thought it was going to be a real Herculean labour to monitor blood glucose at home. In spite of that I was determined to learn to home test - for both Saoirse's safety and my own sanity. We moved practice shortly after she was diagnosed and I got my first testing lesson from our current vet. That was somewhat better, but I was still very apprehensive and lacking in confidence at the prospect of doing tests at home. What pushed me on was knowing I'd be better able to help and protect my darling girl. On my first few attempts I was successful in getting a reading but the means by which I achieved the result left a lot to be desired. I actually started making progress when I started using tips I got here. Soon, Saoirse started purring her way through testing. Not long after that, as her insulin therapy started making her feel better, she would regularly hop up to her test station and call me to let me know it was time for her "sugar check and Snackie!" :cat:

Here's a recent thread on this very subject. I hope you find it informative, encouraging, and perhaps with a wee touch of comic relief! Veterinary professionals may be smart, but they ain't infallible. :)

Testing Saoirse now takes me less than 3 minutes, and most of that time is taken up with getting all the gubbins together beforehand. I warm her ear one-handed and have the other hand free to push the test strip into the meter at the same time. She purrs her way through the minute or so it takes to do the actual test. And she gets her yummy treat after.

Suzy Shy said:
... my kitties are not just my pets, they're my babies ...
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I feel the very same way about mine! They are my four-legged children. I also had Saoirse's brother, Amadán. I lost him two weeks before their third birthday and I've never known a love as deep or a pain as excruciating. To this day, Saoirse gets two sets of fusses every time; one for her, one for my beautiful baby boy. My parents lost a little baby girl before I was born. I always felt very sorry for their loss; they never stopped missing her. But I never understood how profound and utterly devastating their loss was until I lost Ammie. I've never known any love as powerful as that which I feel for my Hairy Babies. I feel blessed beyond measure that I am the lucky girl who got to be their Person, and that they love me back. :)



Mogs
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Thanks to all of you for your help and advice. I really appreciate it. At this point, I'm going to hold off doing anything until after I see the vet on Friday (still have kids in town for the holidays for another day or so and I'm a bit too overwhelmed to think stra
 
Here's another question for you all: If I give Nikko his insulin at 7:30 (a.m. & p.m.), but we have to gone during that time, is it better to give it to him before we go out, or after we get back?
 
You are using ProZinc, right? It is a flexible insulin so giving it a hour earlier or later is not a problem. BUT it is safest to consider changing the schedule when you home test and know what his levels are before the shot - to be sure the dose you are giving will be safe for that matter level. Until you are testing, I'd give it later and then plan to give the next shot 12 hours from that one.

Here is a way to get Niko (and you) ready for home testing.

Sometimes, you can approach the testing slowly. It is all about conditioning the cat to expect a favorite treat. So first, find a treat he is crazy for. PureBites and Bonito flakes are popular at my house; other people bake some chicken without spices and cut it up into bite sized pieces and freeze. Decide where you want to test; some people use the kitchen counter, some between their legs, some on a towel on the floor, some on a couch or bed. Take him there, pet, praise, play with his ears, treat and release. After a while, add warming his ears, pet, praise, treat and release. The hope is that, by the time you add the poke, he will be so interested in the treat, he won't notice.

Meanwhile, try the meter out on yourself so you are comfortable with how it works. Buy some 25-27 gauge lancets to use for Niko; the 30/31 gauge that humans use can be too small at first.

We put together a protocol for ProZince; it is in my signature in blue.
 
I use Tiki Cat wet food. It is 0 carbs (The ones with rice have 3.. I do not use the rice ones)
I use Vital Essentials Freeze Dried Raw Meat as treats when I have to poke his ear and their dinner version I leave a little out like kibble for him to curb his crunchy cravings and keep his teeth cleaned when I have long work days. It does not seem to spike his BG at all. I am still new too and learning my way to this thing and I hope you don't stress out too much!
bighug.gif
 
My beloved 10yr old cat, Huey, was diagnosed about 4 weeks ago. Initial conversation with my vet of 30 years stated that he required 3-4 hospitalization stay at the bargin price of $700-$900 to find his blood sugar level and where to begin his insulin (I hope I am explaining this the correct way). We discussed that there was no way we could afford that. I have chronic Lyme disease, out of work, etc and you can't get blood out of a stone. We are struggling week to week. I asked if there were any options to this, stating what people on this site are doing with success. Nothing positive came of that. So, I changed his food to all wet food, brands and types of canned food as indicated by the Veterinarian Dr. Lisa Pierson (hi protein and low carbs) and am giving him 1/2 tsp daily of Dia-ionx. Huey appears to be losing more weight and is more fatiqued and just lifts his head when I go by as if begging me to help him. (This gets me very emotional) I live in Oley, Pa (close to Reading, Pennsylvania). Does anyone know of a vet who is closeby to me who is accepting of your home testing approach and will write scripts for insulin. Mine won't stating that it goes against professional standards:(
Please, he needs help soon!!!!
 
Thank you for all this info!
Georgie said:
I use Tiki Cat wet food. It is 0 carbs (The ones with rice have 3.. I do not use the rice ones)
I use Vital Essentials Freeze Dried Raw Meat as treats when I have to poke his ear and their dinner version I leave a little out like kibble for him to curb his crunchy cravings and keep his teeth cleaned when I have long work days. It does not seem to spike his BG at all. I am still new too and learning my way to this thing and I hope you don't stress out too much!
bighug.gif
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Thank you, I'm not all that stressed out, it's just a lot o information to sort through. Where do you buy the freeze-dried treats?
Minnig said:
My beloved 10yr old cat, Huey, was diagnosed about 4 weeks ago. Initial conversation with my vet of 30 years stated that he required 3-4 hospitalization stay at the bargin price of $700-$900 to find his blood sugar level and where to begin his insulin (I hope I am explaining this the correct way). We discussed that there was no way we could afford that. I have chronic Lyme disease, out of work, etc and you can't get blood out of a stone. We are struggling week to week. I asked if there were any options to this, stating what people on this site are doing with success. Nothing positive came of that. So, I changed his food to all wet food, brands and types of canned food as indicated by the Veterinarian Dr. Lisa Pierson (hi protein and low carbs) and am giving him 1/2 tsp daily of Dia-ionx. Huey appears to be losing more weight and is more fatiqued and just lifts his head when I go by as if begging me to help him. (This gets me very emotional) I live in Oley, Pa (close to Reading, Pennsylvania). Does anyone know of a vet who is closeby to me who is accepting of your home testing approach and will write scripts for insulin. Mine won't stating that it goes against professional standards:(
Please, he needs help soon!!!!
Click to expand...
Minnig said:
My beloved 10yr old cat, Huey, was diagnosed about 4 weeks ago. Initial conversation with my vet of 30 years stated that he required 3-4 hospitalization stay at the bargin price of $700-$900 to find his blood sugar level and where to begin his insulin (I hope I am explaining this the correct way). We discussed that there was no way we could afford that. I have chronic Lyme disease, out of work, etc and you can't get blood out of a stone. We are struggling week to week. I asked if there were any options to this, stating what people on this site are doing with success. Nothing positive came of that. So, I changed his food to all wet food, brands and types of canned food as indicated by the Veterinarian Dr. Lisa Pierson (hi protein and low carbs) and am giving him 1/2 tsp daily of Dia-ionx. Huey appears to be losing more weight and is more fatiqued and just lifts his head when I go by as if begging me to help him. (This gets me very emotional) I live in Oley, Pa (close to Reading, Pennsylvania). Does anyone know of a vet who is closeby to me who is accepting of your home testing approach and will write scripts for insulin. Mine won't stating that it goes against professional standards:(
Please, he needs help soon!!!!
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I've forwarded your message to my son, who lives in Sinking Spring, and he has my Nikko's two brothers - maybe he has the name of a vet you could try.
 
He says he uses Wyomissing Animal Hospital and that they do payment plans. I've asked him for a phone #, but maybe you can look it up if he doesn't get back to me right away.
 
Vital Essentials web site has a store finder http://www.vitalessentialsraw.com/#!find-your-store/c1cp9
Do know that the cat treats AND the dog treats have the exact same ingredients (because it's only meat) it is only a matter of bite size. Georgie has the dog version of turkey right now because the bag is bigger I break the pieces up.
You can also order online w/ Amazon or Chewy.com
 
Minnig said:
Huey appears to be losing more weight and is more fatiqued and just lifts his head when I go by as if begging me to help him.
Click to expand...

Hi Deborah,

I've just seen the above post and Huey sounds very ill. I have taken the liberty of creating a new thread on Feline Health and I have posted a copy of the above post into the new thread so that your request for help will have a higher profile.

Here is a link to the new thread:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...t-insulin-new-vet-needed-asap-oley-pa.150586/

I've requested more info from you on the new thread. Please can you respond to that thread ASAP? I'm very concerned about Huey.


Mogs
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