My Mom got swindled by her new vet

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Traci and Boomer

Traci and Boomer

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I am so angry right now. For the last month I've been telling my Mom everything I've learned here so she can hopefully get her cat Francis regulated. She fired her vet because she wouldn't put Francis on lantus or work with her - this vet only used PZI which wasn't working. Mom researched new vets and got referrals and went to a new vet who would let Francis have Lantus. Fine. When she gets in the office the vet tells her she has to feed him DM wet only and her 3 other civvies. They only sell the food in CASES and my mom bought one. Then she told my mother that she HAD to have an animal glucometer (Abbott Alpha Track)or she'd have to drop Francis off to do the curve. She told my mother that the human glucometer results were 7-10 points off or something like that. She charged my mother $200 for it and $65 for 50 strips!!! Francis also had a bladder infection, so at least he's being treated for that. Then mom got the Lantus and the vet told her to give him 2 units BID. He was on 3 units BOD of PZI and his BG's were still high.

I am SO frustrated that my Mom got swindled and she ignored everything I told her because she was hustled by this smooth-talking sales woman vet. Mom felt she had no other choice but to listen to this vet because she was running out of PZI and was desperate. She needed that Lantus prescription and thought this was the only way she'd get it, so she gave in.

Then she gets home and the glucometer needs a big blood sample and mom wasted 3 strips and couldn't get enough blood. She's used to the ReliOn which is simple and easy. She called the vet and they won't let her return it - they said she'd have to contact Abbott.

I am SOOO pissed. I told her there are rebuttals for each arguement the vet gave her, but of course she didn't know this and I don't have the information handy myself. Is there anything I can do?
 
Traci and Boomer said:
I am so angry right now. For the last month I've been telling my Mom everything I've learned here so she can hopefully get her cat Francis regulated. She fired her vet because she wouldn't put Francis on lantus or work with her - this vet only used PZI which wasn't working. Mom researched new vets and got referrals and went to a new vet who would let Francis have Lantus. Fine. When she gets in the office the vet tells her she has to feed him DM wet only and her 3 other civvies. They only sell the food in CASES and my mom bought one. Then she told my mother that she HAD to have an animal glucometer (Abbott Alpha Track)or she'd have to drop Francis off to do the curve. She told my mother that the human glucometer results were 7-10 points off or something like that. She charged my mother $200 for it and $65 for 50 strips!!! Francis also had a bladder infection, so at least he's being treated for that. Then mom got the Lantus and the vet told her to give him 2 units BID. He was on 3 units BOD of PZI and his BG's were still high.

I am SO frustrated that my Mom got swindled and she ignored everything I told her because she was hustled by this smooth-talking sales woman vet. Mom felt she had no other choice but to listen to this vet because she was running out of PZI and was desperate. She needed that Lantus prescription and thought this was the only way she'd get it, so she gave in.

Then she gets home and the glucometer needs a big blood sample and mom wasted 3 strips and couldn't get enough blood. She's used to the ReliOn which is simple and easy. She called the vet and they won't let her return it - they said she'd have to contact Abbott.

I am SOOO pissed. I told her there are rebuttals for each arguement the vet gave her, but of course she didn't know this and I don't have the information handy myself. Is there anything I can do?
Click to expand...

I'd write a letter on behalf of your mom insisting that they take the food back and reimburse her and for the meter too. There is NO law about "having" to use an Abbott meter. Many vets are just fine with others. My own vet uses a freestyle on her ferrets. If the vet would not like a few letters sent to appropriate boards and the BBB, she should comply. Gosh, I am SO sorry your mom is having such trouble with vets.
 
Yikes... no good!
Sorry to hear you are all goin thru this.. but I would have her contact (or you can contact) Purina re:food & Abbott: glucometer, I am willing to bet the companies will work with a refund - probably just not immediate. I think being honest, kind & stating her case re: Diabetic Kitty & food not conducive..meter not a good fit, etc. maybe they will refund. I know the food they will.. glucometer maybe not.. because of sanitary/health reasons. It will work out.. try not to stress out.
 
Nicole has a great idea - contact the manufacturers and ask them for a refund if the vet refuses and TELL them the vet refuses to refund.

My understanding is that they have to refund the food - all she has to say is my cats don't like it and won't eat it. Simple.

The meter and strips, that's another thing - vet may not refund. Hopefully Abbott will - have her call and tell them that she has their people meter that requires less blood and is easier to use and the vet forced the animal one upon her and she can't use it comfortably, without wasting lots of expensive strips and would like to return it for a refund (and she can provide purchase receipt).


They may tell her she has to return it to vet, but maybe not and they will accommodate her.

I do suggest that she ask the vet to refund all of this and if vet doesn't - then file a complaint with the BBB - this can be done online. The vet will then have to explain it to them and Mom can refute (with your help) if needed.

Where is mom located? Many of us got the free insulin last month and there may be someone local who can give her a pen and then she won't need this salesperson , errr vet any longer and she can find someone else.

On the positive side, thank goodness she didn't leave her cat there for regulation!
 
my understanding is that DM has a full-price guarantee. if the pet won't eat it (who's to disprove that), the vet should refund the remainder of the cans. technically i guess the manufacturer/distributor would offer a full refund, even on cans opened and tossed because the cat(s) wouldn't go for them.
my vet pulled the, well your cat ate two cans so you'll have to pay the per can price on them (rather than the discounted price coz i bought a case), but i took it just to be done with her.
 
I would find out if that vet belongs to the Better Business Bureau and if she does file a complaint there. It will show up on their report and they have to resolve it or they can get kicked out of the BBB because they are not allowed to have so many complaints. I found that out when I was looking for a roffing contractor.

If that doesn't work I wonder if the vets have a licensing entity and if they do. Find out the vets license number and file a complaint to the licensing agency. I will do some Research and Find out anything I can. I love google. Hope This helps.

David
 
Do you think the vet knowingly swindled your mom or maybe this is a vet who felt she knew what was right for a cat. All that this vet has done is no worse than some of the other very common tales. In fact, this vet, though pushy, seems to be a bit more with it - at least thinks of home testing. As for the Lantus, I'm not sure what you mean about the dose when the cat was on 3 units PZI.... it's actually the practice to start the cat over at the starting dose of insulin not the same dose of the first type - we never know how a different insulin will work. So the cat is likely safe with 2 units but should probably start at 1 unit to ensure that the right dose was not missed.

I do think that you should take the food and meter back. But you'll have more success if you go in with the attitude that they should and will be cooperative and without claiming that someone swindled you.
 
it's actually the practice to start the cat over at the starting dose of insulin not the same dose of the first type - we never know how a different insulin will work. So the cat is likely safe with 2 units but should probably start at 1 unit to ensure that the right dose was not missed.
Click to expand...

Not really. Depends on what kind of insulins you were on and which you are switching to, and how you got to the current dose. If I had a cat who was developing Ketones and I had been on Vetsulin for several months and was up to 3 units BID and not satified with the numbers and was switching to Lantus I would NOT be starting at 1U. I would probably start at 2 or 2.5U so as to not run risk of DKA because of too little insulin.

And that is also what the protocol suggests doing.

Begin with 0.25 IU/kg of ideal weight BID
OR
If the cat received another insulin previously, increase or reduce
the starting dose taking this information into account. Glargine
has a lower potency than lente insulin and PZI in most cats.

Traci I'm sorry your Mom got swindled by this vet. Sounds like she just wanted to make some $$$$, I'm suprised she didn't try to sell your Mom the Lantus directly instead of a Rx. I have heard of Vets selling it from thier practice and charging quite a bit more than the local pharmacy.

No idea what you can do about the Alpha trak, keep it use up the strips perhaps experiment with it comparing to the Walmart meter to see how differnet they are. I would save the money and not buy more strips for it in the future. Perhaps sell it on Ebay. The food can be returned for a refund, the vet looses nothing because the gaurentee is from the manufacturer. I bought a bag of Hill's m/d which was a big mistake. My sugar kitty loved it and stuffed himself which sent his BG sky high. My civie wasn't so crazy about it. I returned it about 3 cups used, and said the civie loved it, but the diabetic whom it was more important for wouldn't eat it. The vet creditied the full price to my account. I didn't get the $$$ back but I have a €25 credit at the office which I used to buy some other meds (deworming tabletts, and a nice cat brush). Better than nothing.
 
Hi Everyone-
Thank you for your suggestions and support.

Part of the problem is that my Mom's life is totally unmanageable BEFORE the cat problem. She's totally overworked and feels she can't do anything about it - or lose her job. It's so weird because she makes decent money but has not saved for retirement, so now she's essentially stuck working forever because of it. She doesn't have any energy left over to deal with the cat unfortunately, but she tries. I have no clue how she does all of this and still functions.

I feel bad for Francis and her, so I try to help, but seems to get herself into these crazy situations. I don't know what to tell her. One of her civvies WON'T eat the DM or any wet food. Period. So nows she's got another problem. She used to feed all the civvies low carb dry - leave it out all day and Francis gets LCW and had access to the LCD. It wasn't the best situation for Francis, but everyone ate. Not perfect, but manageable.

I agree with you about returning the food - they should take it back. I'll tell her about BBB and calling Abbott. The thing is that she still needs a vet to work with her on the Lantus. I can help her to some extent, but doesn't she need a vet in the beginning? I haven't called my vet since I found this board but she may need to. Having her rely upon me entirely for assistance puts all the responsibility on me which I really don't want.

I sent her the Lantus protocol so she has that as a guide. She's already bought the Lantus and starts it today.

I'm not sure if the vet is a jerk or if she really believes in this method (with DM and the animal glucometer) and isn't making $$$ off the sales of the product. Either way, Mom spent hundreds of dollars on products that she didn't need and that makes me very frustrated.
 
Monique & Spooky said:
it's actually the practice to start the cat over at the starting dose of insulin not the same dose of the first type - we never know how a different insulin will work. So the cat is likely safe with 2 units but should probably start at 1 unit to ensure that the right dose was not missed.
Click to expand...

Not really. Depends on what kind of insulins you were on and which you are switching to, and how you got to the current dose. If I had a cat who was developing Ketones and I had been on Vetsulin for several months and was up to 3 units BID and not satified with the numbers and was switching to Lantus I would NOT be starting at 1U. I would probably start at 2 or 2.5U so as to not run risk of DKA because of too little insulin.

And that is also what the protocol suggests doing.

Begin with 0.25 IU/kg of ideal weight BID
OR
If the cat received another insulin previously, increase or reduce
the starting dose taking this information into account. Glargine
has a lower potency than lente insulin and PZI in most cats.
Click to expand...

True, Monique. I was unaware that this cat had ketones. Your point actually backs my point up even stronger and that is that I don't think this vet is swindling as much as following strongly what she thinks is right for the cat. In the case of the insulin, she was spot on with what you would suggest.
 
most places that sell glucometers will NOT take them back, regardless if they are unopened or not, as well as the strips. I found this out when I bought extra strips for a meter and did not end up needing them. Unopened walmart refused to take them back, and the teeny tiny sign far away from the strips as much said so before I bought them.

I agree with Vic, that this might not be a case of being "swindled" since you weren't there you can't be sure she was. the vet might believe this is the best course of action. A lot of vets will not trust home testing until the owner has proven reliability in testing, has accurate information and gotten a fructosamine to back it up. You are comfortable with the facts of home testing and food, but I am sure your mother still isn't, and the vet while talking to her determined that and felt that to follow what she (the vet) knew to be a proper protocol.

However to say that a 7-10 point difference in a glucometer is significant is silly. most glucometers have a 10% variance. I'm also not amused that ALL the cats NEED to be on DM. granted it is one of the better options that your vet is selling, and out of all of your vet's choices that is the best option. (which isn't saying much)

If this were you, I would say that YOU were swindled, but you know better. Your mother doesn't have you there, is unsure of things, and needs to have a relationship with this vet. If your mother isn't comfortable home testing and the data she can collect and conveying this information to the vet, then it might just be in her and her cat's best interest to go with what this vet is telling her. Is the glucometer and the d/m ideal, not at all. But it is what this vet knows... which you have to admit is a far sight better then a vet who does not believe in home testing at all and prescribes R/D or W/D

Connie
 
Vic I don't know if this cat has or had Ketones either, but I would think if she was hometesting and 3U PZI was not bringing her/him too low then the numbers on just 1U would probably be high enough that ketones COULD become a problem, or just the fact that there is no need to let a cat run too high for a week while slowly increasing the dose when you know your gonna have to over 1U anyway.

We always say ECID, but then everyone suggest ALL cats begin at 1U?????? If I had a kitty that was going to low on 0.5U PZI but was getting higher preshots and not staying steady and I was switching to Lantus, I probably wouldn't want to start at 1U but rather .5U I will likely have to increase it, but 1U could be too much.

The weight guideline is helpful when you have new Dx'd and not much info (diet, BG measurements, Fructosamine) If you take the IDEAL weight of the average domestic shorthair it's about 4-6 kg.

The Protocol says start with .25U per Kg so 4kg x .25U = 1U or 6kg x .25U = 1.5U so it pretty much works out to 1U

However when have more information like that the owner has been feeding HC foods and is switching to LC wet before beginning Tx and is already hometesting and the numbers are dropping somewhat (<250 or 300) or the Fructosamine test isn't insanely high then I might want to start this kitty a little lower than 1U.

Same for a cat that is really high or has ketones developing I want to be more agressive in getting things under control.

Anyway this is something we should be discussing in TT (heaven help us :o ) I just don't think everybody should be made to start over from scratch. It's not always helpful and can be discouraging. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch you have to first create the world :razz:
 
I get what you are saying... and no... if someone is on an insulin at .5u, I would not suggest they start the other insulin at 1 unit. But when one insulin isn't working right at a higher dose, it does not mean that 1 unit of a more appropriate insulin will not work right. I certainly do not think that 2 units is dangerous... but I do think that with the way Lantus works and builds over time that starting there might mean that the right dose was missed... Of course ketones are a worry. My point in this thread was not so much that the vet did wrong to give 2 instead of 1unit... it was that I think she did right to give 2 instead of 3 units. I did not post in here to start a general discussion on it or even to discuss correct doses at all... it was about the vet and specific to the topic of swindling. I'll make it clearer next time.
 
I think my Mom felt the most upset about the pet glucometer and the fact that she already had and was using a human one with fine results. Mom specifically asked how much blood would be needed with the new glucometer and the vet reassured her it was a small amount and then it turned out to not be the case. And it was not easy to use with a squirming cat, as opposed to ReliOn which is a snap.

Maybe the vet really does think that putting 4 cats on one food with no variation forever would really work. It sounds unrealistic to me. Maybe she's not a swindler but closed minded to alternative ways of managing DM.

Maybe Mom can return the food, use her own glucometer, feed FF and let the vet think she's doing it her way so she can get advice about Lantus when she needs it. :lol:
 
Traci, many of us do let the vets think we are following the instructions until we have data to back up what we know from this site is the proper treatment. We then take the information and data to the vet and they are generally happy when the cat is doing well.


As for the food... A low carb FF is good for all the cats. It's a species appropriate diet. That's what is important with FD and cat nutrition in general. So no need for the DM for any of them. But they can eat the same foods provided none of the other cats has a serious issue preventing them from eating a proper balanced diet.
 
[quote="Traci and Boomer"Maybe Mom can return the food, use her own glucometer, feed FF and let the vet think she's doing it her way so she can get advice about Lantus when she needs it. :lol:[/quote]

traci, many of us just got the lantus from the vet and started posting on the lantus forum here for help. the level of knowledge, experience, and understanding is unsurpassed here as far as i'm concerned. i'm still amazed at how many vets don't really have a handle on treating diabetes to the level i see here.

BUT i'm concerned that if this cat has a history of ketones we're talking a different story. DKA can kill a cat and wipe out your savings. it is scary, time-consuming, and expensive to treat. if the cat has a history of ketones it is VERY important that your mom have a vet she can work with. i trust the board many times over to handle daily monitoring and dosing decisions. but i would never take chances if ketones were in the mix.
 
Francis has never been tested for Ketones either by my mother nor any of her vets, so he doesn't have a history. (I think someone mentioned that by accident in this thread) Isn't it weird that no vet has suggested a ketone test?

My idea is to suggest to Mom that she:
-Give LCW options to ALL the cats including Francis and maybe her finicky civvie will like one.
-Return the DM.
-Call Abbott and kindly ask if she can return the meter, and then use her own.
-Communicate with the vet about Francis's bladder infection and his lantus dosing if she needs help.

At least she got Lantus and a vet who knows about it, right? Thanks for helping me puzzle this out. I really need to get my mind off this now and live my own life. :roll:
 
Traci and Boomer said:
Mom specifically asked how much blood would be needed with the new glucometer and the vet reassured her it was a small amount and then it turned out to not be the case.
Click to expand...

The Abbott Alpha Trak machine actually does take an extremely tiny amount of blood: 0.3 µl which is the same amount the Relion takes. Is there a chance your mom is just having trouble getting blood, or might be using the meter incorrectly? I only ask b/c I know that the Alpha Trak takes 0.3 µl, and I have no trouble using it on my cat. (But again, I recognize that it does cost much more and may not be appropriate for that reason.)
 
It's important to have a vet she can turn to, if and when she needs help. While, we rely on this board for a lot of things, the board does not take the place of a vet, who has the tools and hopefully knowledge when dealing with medical issues and emergencies.

May I also suggest that your mom go to any human pharmacy and pick up a box of ketostix. They aren't expensive at the most about $15. She can get name or store brand, doesn't matter. They are located in the diabetes section. Then once a day or as often as she can, she can test the cat's urine with the ketostix. This will help her know if there is something more to be concerned with or not.

Also, as an FYI, I purchased a few meters at Walgreens when I started this journey and really hated the meters. I returned them (opened and used) along with the strips and got a refund, no questions asked.

Where does your mom live? There may be members close to her who can offer assistance and/or recommend a vet if your mom is looking for a new one.
 
Hi Tara-

It's good to hear from someone using th Alpha Track. Mom says it's harder to use because it doesn's "suck" the blood in like other strips do and they go in sideways or something? She told me that it was much harder to use - but obviously that's her opinion. I am not sure if they gave her a demo or not.

Hillary-
Mom lives in Wethersfield CT which isn't close to anyone who lives in CT from this board. Good to know that some meters are returnable.

Thanks ladies!
 
Traci and Boomer said:
Mom says it's harder to use because it doesn's "suck" the blood in like other strips do and they go in sideways or something?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is a little weird how it doesn't suck or sip the blood up the strip. There are black squares on the sides of the strip, and you just touch the blood to one of the black squares, sort of on the side edge. It beeps almost immediately though, signifying that it got the blood. Did her kit come with the instructional DVD? Mine did, but I haven't watched it to see if it's helpful. If she didn't get one, I could mail her mine if I still have it around here somewhere. If she sticks with that meter, the strips are a little cheaper through Amazon/EntirelyPets (though still expensive!): http://www.amazon.com/AlphaTRAK-Blood-G ... B001139V00
 
Traci:

How did your mom pay for the vet visit? If she used a credit card, she can stop payment and challenge the charges. That will get the vet's attention and if you live nearby, maybe you can accompany her when she returns the food.

There is a protocol developed by two vets at the University of Queensland (Roomp & Rand) who are leaders in FD and Lantus research. They provide dosing guidelines based on both human meters and the AlphaTrack. See this link for the Rand Protocol. Perhaps your mom can bring this to the vet as a means of underscoring that either meter is equally acceptable.
 
Maybe someone on this board who wants that specific glucometer will buy it from your mom for a portion of what she paid. Maybe do a separate posting for it?

I would def. write a letter of complaint to the vet and also post on all those websites that allow you to rate vets your experience--and perhaps tell the vet you will or have done so. It's very frustrating when these vets think they know everything when them most clearly do not.
 
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