My kitty is on pzi, her numbers are bouncing around

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Luanne Cigic

Luanne Cigic

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My cat was put on 4 units of pzi twice daily at the vet, she has been home with me, took her back in a week she was 98 she was taken down to 3 units I stated getting her numbers last night with reliOn today after a little food her number was 250, gave her 2 units because i was scared the 3 was too much for her. Half an hour after her shot her number went up to 344. Yesterday after her shot she threw up frothy stuff. i just took it now again and its 146.
 
Hi and welcome! I am a little confused about his numbers. Is this correct?

250 2 units
+.5 344
?? 146

So how many hours after the shot was the 146? The number half hour after the shot could have been due to the food, which can raise levels.

Do you feed before testing? You don't want to wait too long because the food can give you a food influenced number rather than a "true" one. It's test, feed and shoot.

The protocol we put together for ProZinc is in my signature in blue.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Hi and welcome! I am a little confused about his numbers. Is this correct?

250 2 units
+.5 344
?? 146

So how many hours after the shot was the 146? The number half hour after the shot could have been due to the food, which can raise levels.

Do you feed before testing? You don't want to wait too long because the food can give you a food influenced number rather than a "true" one. It's test, feed and shoot.

The protocol we put together for ProZinc is in my signature in blue.
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She tested 250 this morning before her shot at 10;30 She had a little venison at 7am and a half can of fancy feast 30 minutes before her test and shot, my vet said to feed her 30 minutes before shot. a half hour after her shot i checked and her sugar was 344 which scared me. i again tested her at 7pm and she was at 146, she has ate chiken today and i can of fancy feast, i just fed her now again
 
Luanne Cigic said:
She tested 250 this morning before her shot at 10;30 She had a little venison at 7am and a half can of fancy feast 30 minutes before her test and shot, my vet said to feed her 30 minutes before shot. a half hour after her shot i checked and her sugar was 344 which scared me. i again tested her at 7pm and she was at 146, she has ate chiken today and i can of fancy feast, i just fed her now again
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Need to get my capital i working sorry! :/
 
Hey Luanne! Glad you made your way over here. You want to test BEFORE feeding. Basically, you want to not have a food influenced number, so you want to make sure no food is on board for 2 hours before your test. Then you test, feed, and shoot all in about 15 minutes. Make sense?
 
You want to get a schedule set up so you don't feed for 2 hours before your pre shot test - so it isn't influenced by food. Then at pre shot time, test and give her the insulin and the food.

For reference; We generally consider a cat to be regulated if they are in the lower 200s at preshot and in double digits at nadir (5-7 hours the shot) but not below 45 which is nearing hypo territory. We suggest new diabetics not get a shot if they are under 200 at preshot. Instead stall without feeding for 20 minutes and retest. You want to be sure the number is rising,not falling and nearer 200.
 
So post when you get a number at +12 and put Dosing Advice needed in the Subject line so we will see you. To add that to this thread, go back to your original post, choose edit and change the Subject line.
 
Luanne,
I just wanted to let you know that it isn't unusual to see an increase in BG for up to 2-3 hours after the shot and feeding. The "onset" of Prozinc (the amount of time it takes before it actually starts kicking in) is supposed to be 2 or 3 hours, and then it should reach it's peak effect between 5-7 hours after the shot. So what you saw this morning is not unexpected.
 
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) said:
Luanne,
I just wanted to let you know that it isn't unusual to see an increase in BG for up to 2-3 hours after the shot and feeding. The "onset" of Prozinc (the amount of time it takes before it actually starts kicking in) is supposed to be 2 or 3 hours, and then it should reach it's peak effect between 5-7 hours after the shot. So what you saw this morning is not unexpected.
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Good to hear and thank you!
 
Can we get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests? It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
Hi Luanne - welcome to the prozinc forum - joining and posting here is the best thing you can do for you and your cat. Ask ask ask and post post post, and soon the complicated management for this complicated disease will start falling into place. Read all the stickies at the top of the prozinc forum, and it also helps to read the threads and look at other cats' spreadsheets. It is a lot to absorb especially at first so try not to feel overwhelmed (easier said than done at times) but we're all in this together -
 
About the same as her amps. A nice ProZinc smile curve. So, you could give 2 units again and she should give you similar numbers tonight. But it's night and it is hard to test and keep track of her levels. You could back off a bit and not have to worry.

What do you think?
 
I was giving her morning and evening but Thursday at the vet she was 98 so I didnt give her shot. Friday I did the pm shot. Saturday, yesterday when it was 150 I didn't give it but then I didn't test her at the +12 like tonight, so now tonight I know it went up so I'll give it to her and stay up and watch her a while.
 
Luanne Cigic said:
I was giving her morning and evening but Thursday at the vet she was 98 so I didnt give her shot. Friday I did the pm shot. Saturday, yesterday when it was 150 I didn't give it but then I didn't test her at the +12 like tonight, so now tonight I know it went up so I'll give it to her and stay up and watch her a while.
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You have no idea how blessed I feel to have help with this, you are such a great help! I was so lost and I feel safer now with all of your help, Smokey thanks you too!
 
I am worried that this changes our perception of her numbers. If today was a normal cycle with a starting and evening preshot in the same range, that looks like a nice safe cycle at that dose. Was today the first day you gave the lower dose of 2 units?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Wait. So she was at 250+ this morning after 24 hours since her last shot?
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....AND after being fed as I read it. Not sure how much food or how close to the test time. But it was food influenced.

We really need to get Luanne's SS up and plug this info. in so it's clearer. She's been punting
 
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Have you already given the shot? If not, I think I would play it safe and cut back to one unit tonight. You can get on track tomorrow. Can you test then?


Agreed. We have to get a spreadsheet set up for you so we can see her history. PRoZinc is dosed on the pre shot and nadir history of previous cycles. It is so easy to have them on a color coded spreadsheet so we can see what is going on. If you need help, let me know.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Have you already given the shot? If not, I think I would play it safe and cut back to one unit tonight. You can get on track tomorrow. Can you test then?


Agreed. We have to get a spreadsheet set up for you so we can see her history. PRoZinc is dosed on the pre shot and nadir history of previous cycles. It is so easy to have them on a color coded spreadsheet so we can see what is going on. If you need help, let me know.
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I will definantly need help with that spread sheet. I'm writing everything down now.
 
I started the two units on Thursday. Since she was so low at the vet with stress, she was only 98. So even though he said go from 4 to 3, I went down to 2, I was too worried about her numbers going too low. I thought she was on too much to begin with.
 
So they are regular U-40 syringes and you estimated the .75? We used Lantus which uses different size syringes than Prozinc, but you can buy them with 1/2 unit markings which makes the fraction dosing easier. @Sue and Oliver (GA) ....Can you get U-40 syringes with 1/2 U markings?
 
Yes, you can. But many ProZinc users buy the 1/2 unit U100 syringes and use the conversion chart. That way, they can dose 1.2/1.4/1.6 etc.
 
Luanne, we'd definitely like to get your spreadsheet up. Not only will that keep you from having to explain numbers to us over and over, it's also how we're all used to seeing numbers. Personally, I have a really difficult time giving advice without an SS...I'm visual I guess, so I have to see it. Over time, it'll help you too since you can just scroll through it looking for patterns.

Sue is a great resource for that! She's set up tons of people. You're in good hands with her help!
 
You can get the U100 syringes at Walmart, Relion, 3/10ml, 30 gauge, 8mm length. They have 1/2 unit markings also. 100/$13 Make sure you use the conversation chart with the U100 syringes so you don't give too much.
 
Here is the Conversion chart

When you get your SS started, you will need to list your dose (units) in U-40 numbers but use the U100 for your dose. This is because Prozinc is a U-40 insulin and this is what your vet would be able to understand.
 
Basically, every 0.5 unit tick mark on a U-100 (orange cap) measures 0.2 units of a U-40 insulin.
 
We are a little confused, Luanne. PRoZinc is a U40 insulin and you use U40 needles with it. There is a U100 BCP PZI and you'd use U100 needles with it. Which insulin are you using?

You can use U100 needles with U40 needles but you need to use the conversion chart Cindi linked to get a true amount of insulin given.
 
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