My Kitty has diabetes :( scared, worried, stressed.

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To tell you the truth my mind is tired. Im ready to try vetsulin just because its readily available by my vet and cheap. I do want to home test tho. Maybe he will do well on it. If not I can always change insulin.

I still am going to wait till tomorrow and call every vet in town and see who is willing to listen. If I find a good one that is willing to help/listen/share ideas/open to different insulin I will change and get a prescription for Lantus tomorrow.

If I cant find anyone I will start to use the Vetsulin because I want him on something asap.

My mind is tired, I am tired :(

**edit, oh I also asked my vet why he said to not use lantus. He said it is known to cause many cats to go hypo. He said before he called me back that he want and read a discussion panel and that's what they agreed.
 
Jason,

If Wease is at 540 you need to get him started right away on something, regardless. Those numbers are just to high, he is at risk for ketones. Please go get a meter right away and test him yourself and please with the help of the people here get him started. You must be able with that insulin to test him at home.

Terri
 
He also told me he has been treating cats with diabetes for 21 years and only 2 ppl have home tested.
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My vet never suggested that I attempt home testing. Sounds like yours doesn't either so his logic with that statement is a bit suspect there. I didn't know it was even an option or how useful it would be until I found FDMB. My vet was amazed when I showed her the numbers that I logged on my iPhone when we went in for a weight check a few weeks later. She said keep doing what we're doing and that she wished all her diabetic patients did this (if she did then she should mention it, right?? lol). Next time we go in I'll be sure to tell her about this forum.

However, I can also understand some reluctance to advise it professionally, due to liability and all. I can imagine that not all their clients are equipped (mentally, physically, emotionally, availability) to do systematic testing. Maybe some vets just stick to what they know/always do because they have to see so many patients with so many ailments all day. Not really trying to make excuses, but trying to be mindful of where they are coming from. Believe me, I am always asking a million of challenging questions. I almost missed a flight once researching cryptococcous meds before the vet called in the prescription...it saved probably close to a $1000 and a huge hassle of administering an oral suspension twice a day for 6+ months and probably the cat's life. I am lucky because work gives me access to online medical journals and I have a teeny bit of education that helps me understand them a little. I had to pretty much tell the vet he was wrong about the med he wanted to prescribe. Fortunately, he took it ok. We got the cheap pills. Cat fully recovered.

But they still know a lot more than I ever could so I try to be as respectful as possible. That was nice that he called you back. Hope you get it worked out with him or are able to find a new vet. Also, just fyi, I had a less then positive experience taking a cat to Cornell's vet school for treatment. They're a highly ranked vet school so maybe I just had bad luck or maybe my expectations were too high. If I recall correctly, they were quite a bit more expensive than the local vet in Ithaca, too. It's been too long ago to remember the vet in Ithaca I used or if I would even especially recommend them. I could dig it up if you'd like.
 
Being a man I think my vet thought I would throw my hands up in the air and give up on my kitty. She gave me lantus, syringes and the link to this message board but I don't think she thought we would get very far. You should have seen her face when 3 weeks later Dusty was in remission. The sooner you start the insulin the better your chances are to get your kitty controlled and maybe even remission. Let's go Jason, it's not hard, you can do it and we're all here to help you. dancing_cat
 
Cats wind up hypo because vets give too high a starting dose in many cases and they seldom encourage home testing because they often assume folks will just give up and euthanize the cat.

If you start low and home test, you are far less likely to have an issue with a hypo.

The formula to determine a starting dose of Lantus is:
the lower of his current weight or his ideal weight
In kilos (pounds divided by 2.2)
multiplied by 0.25
rounded down to the nearest quarter unit for safety and because syringes don't have quarter unit markings so you have to eyeball them.
 
BJM said:
The formula to determine a starting dose of Lantus is:
the lower of his current weight or his ideal weight
In kilos (pounds divided by 2.2)
multiplied by 0.25
rounded down to the nearest quarter unit for safety and because syringes don't have quarter unit markings so you have to eyeball them.
Click to expand...

according to your formula his dose would be 1.42

12.5/2.2 = 5.6
5.6 x .25 = 1.4

I think I will be using Vetsulin tomorrow. I cant wait for a new vet. If I spend all day trying to get a new vet to see me Itll be tomorrow night before he gets his first dose.

Vetsulin is $50
Lantus is like $200 for the same amount...

Vetsulin is much more in my price range.

When I take blood from his ear do I hit that vien on the outside or is that bad? I was watching youtube videos and one person said not to hit that?

***EDIT below is a pic of Wease's ear
0211140154.jpg
 
Come on Jason,Wease has been your soul mate for 13 years,make your decision as to the insulin,get your glucometor and start helping her to feel better.You have a wonderful group of experienced people to guide you every step of the way.
Be brave,once you start treating her you will both feel better. Good luck
 
You generally want to aim for the place between the vein and the edge of the ear. You'll hit the vein on occasion and sometimes it's helpful if you're having a particularly difficult time getting blood but you don't want to do it all the time (it bleeds more, the cat is more likely to feel it, and it has a higher chance of developing scar tissue).

And make sure you test FIRST before giving any insulin at all. Maybe the diet change this week has already put Wease into better numbers. If over 200 tomorrow (when I'm assuming you'll be giving insulin) post here first and ask for help on the dose. If under 200, also post but don't give any insulin.

Here are some Ear Testing tips that you might not have seen yet and it has a great picture of the "sweet spot."
 
KPassa said:
If over 200 tomorrow (when I'm assuming you'll be giving insulin) post here first and ask for help on the dose. If under 200, also post but don't give any insulin.
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Well the vet said start with 2 units without even testing... scary. If its over 200 can I give 1 unit and under 200 give nothing? I think im going to stick with the Vetsulin for now. If im having no luck in the first few weeks ill ask to switch. Im just hoping someone has some experience with Vetsulin to help me.

I just went to walmart and got the strips, the meter, lancing device and lances. Watching youtube videos I think ill like the lancing device best.

Anyone know what setting they use? Couple of the lady's on youtube use setting 5, that wont go all the way thru the ear?

Nobody uses the cats toes or anything else? Always the ears?
 
I would go with no more than 1u if he's over 200 tomorrow since this is your first time dosing and you'll want to be able to see how low the dose takes him without having to worry he might go too low. Here's a Vetsulin Primer that should give you a bit of an idea of how it works and how important food is when giving the dose.

I use a lancing device as well. When I first stated out, I had it on the highest setting and slowly worked my way down over the next couple of weeks as Mikey's ears learned to bleed and now it's on the lowest setting (1). In fact, I have quite a few lancing devices and they all work perfectly on the lowest setting for him. If you poke through the ear (give Wease a piercing :lol: ), that's a sign the device is set too high. You also want to make sure it's flat against the ear and not at an angle or you might have difficulty getting blood.

ETA: some people use the paw pads to test, but Mikey hates having his feet touched so I never bothered trying that with him because he was already difficult to test to begin with. :lol: There should be a video in the ear testing tips I linked above for paw pad testing.
 
I just checked Wease's ear first time ever. Got a tiny drip of blood. The reading was 393 on a Relion Confirm. The last time he ate was 10pm almost +4 hours ago.

He did not like that at all, I dont think it hurt him but he HATES being held down. I think I got him right in that vien, is that ok or no :(

I am very shaky with nerves now as I have never done that before lol. Anyways he still has about 6 hours and 15 minutes until he eats again. Think it will go up or down by then? What if his reading is like 500 before he eats should I give 2 units of Vetsulin?

Is 393 really high considering he has been on low carb foods for 2 full days?
 
Hey Jason , it can be quiet on the board this time of night. But there is usually someone floating around!

Great job on your first test!! My cat Cobb hated being held down too, but doesn't mind it much not. You can make him tolerate it easier by giving a low carb treat every time you test or a piece of boiled chicken.

393 isn't great but a lot of us have seen numbers much worse. I would stick with the 1 unit initially because you don't know how Wease will react to the insulin. It could bring him down quickly, or he may have to adjust to the dose. Higher numbers are safer in the short term. Very low numbers can induce a hypoglycemic episode and kill quickly. Once you know how Wease reacts to the insulin you'll start manipulating his dose in search of the right one. If you start too high that can actually keep him in high numbers (counterintuitive, I know), but he can develop glucose toxicity and his body begins to think those high numbers are "normal," and fight the trip down into the pancreas healing numbers.

Good luck tomorrow morning! The first few times testing are daunting but you succeeded the first time. That's awesome news!!
 
I was actually surprised how little blood there was and it still worked. I just hope hitting that vein isn't a bad no no. Its hard to aim with that lancer tool.

Im trying to figure out how to set up the google spreadsheet thingy. Starting to get pretty tired tho.
 
That's the good thing about the human meters they require less blood. My original meter required something like 1.5uL. We had the hardest time getting enough. The one I have now requires .3uL (uL or whatever the measurement is!)

I hit the vein every now and then. It's ok. You'll just get a bigger drop of blood. You can use some neosporin with paci relief to heal Wease's ears. It works quickly.

Get some rest. Make sure you take care of you too! You're of no use to Wease if you make yourself sick!

Great job today!
 
OK just checked his blood at 9:42am it is 392. Should I give him 1 unit of vetsulin to see how he does with it or 2 units?

This will be his very first shot of Vetsulin.
 
I'd give one unit just so you can see how it goes. Then get a number around 2 hours after the shot to see how low the onset is. That will give you a clue to how the rest of the cycle may go.

Congrats on getting a number! Welcome to the Vampire Club! :mrgreen:
 
Ok I will start with 1 unit and test him in a couple hours. Im going to feed him at 10am and give him the shot during since he wont even notice it lol.

Do I start a new thread in a different section on the forum for dose advice or just keep using this post? The vetsulin section of the forum seems to be pretty quiet.
 
The forum for Vetsulin is not active. A few people in the UK use it because it is all that is available, but they post here. So continue to post here. And yes, once your thread goes to the second page, it is time to start a new one.
 
Ok, he has his very first shot. I'm very nervous now about how he will act today. I hope everything goes ok :(

2/11/14 393 pre shot 10am dose 1 unit.
 
Tip on Vetsulin: it is actually a mixture of 2 types of insulin, each having a peak effect at a slightly different time. This may be more obvious in dogs. In cats, you may observe 2 nadirs (depends on the cat), the first one around +4 to +5 hours after the shot, the 2nd one around +6 to +7 after the shot.

With enough data collection, you may be able to show your vet how it is working ... or not for your cat. If it doesn't provide good enough coverage, you might ask for PZI insulin or ProZinc which also are non-depot insulins.
 
Jason, yes, please start a new post, but get the link from this one to put into your new post so people can quickly go back and read what's already been said. Just copy the link, click on the URL tab and paste the link in between the your link [URL]. Your subject line...ing up and nothing else has changed. [/quote]
 
Jason,

Great job, hope everything went well with the shot. I had a difficult cat and I never held her down for test or shot, I would get everything ready, shot and everything drawn up. I would get the meter, the lancet and go in the extra bedroom and I let the other cats come in as that seemed to calm her a little. I would put her in front of me on the floor in between my knees, I would stoop over her hold her just a little so she did not run off, test, and then shoot. I was not able to test her a lot due to hiding and running.
I also used two sheets of toilet paper folded to put behind the ear when I poked with the lancet. Maybe other people will tell how they do it to make it easier.

Terri
 
Chris & China said:
*an extra note about handling your insulin...
"Store refrigerated at 2-8ºC (35-46º F). Protect from light. Store in the upright position. Following withdrawal of the first dose use the product within 28 days. Discard unused material."
When in doubt and if numbers start to climb, think about replacing your insulin. Insulin poop out has been known to happen before 28 days and also after and is worth thinking on if numbers are going up and nothing else has changed.
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The vet told me it lasts 2 months. I read about the 28 day thing and that's the duration the FDA tested it for and they are not allowed to put longer than that in the literature.

I did find this tho.

Once the vial
is opened, use contents within 42 days of first vial puncture and maintain a temperature of 25°C (77°F) or cooler.

from this link here
http://www.vetsulin.com/PDF/Vetsulin-Feline-Tech-Bulletin.pdf
 
The one you can edit is the original google doc. Save it to your favorites. The url you posted is a read only. Have you put it in your signature so it comes up, updated, each time you post?
 
I added to to my signature.

Im going to test Wease at 12pm in 15 mins that's +2 hours and see where he is but after only testing twice I hit that vein both times. His ears looks sore, is that normal? Doesn't it hurt on the ear after a while?
 
It will help if you hold the spot you poked for a few seconds to minimize brusing. You can also use Neosporin with pain relief. Their ears toughen up with time. You can also alternate places and ears.
 
Congratulations on a successful ear test! You've taken a huge first step! :-D You'll get better at it as you do it more, and Wease's ears will begin to "cooperate" more in giving you blood. You've also got a spreadsheet up and running. Great job! You're on the right track!
 
Morning Jason!

WOOHOO! You got this started! GOOD JOB!!! I swear I was the QUEEN of shakes - I'd shake so bad at first that I would drop the syringe. Guess what...KT just looked at me like "Hey, what's the big deal?". I have been testing his same ear for nearing 3 years - the other ear is a turnip. Yep he has a red spot all the time on his light ear but it's extra capillaries and scar tissue.

BIG DANCE TODAY!!!
 
Wease's BG is 381 +2 after am dose. It barely even seemed to move?

Squeaky and KT said:
Morning Jason!
WOOHOO! You got this started! GOOD JOB!!! I swear I was the QUEEN of shakes - I'd shake so bad at first that I would drop the syringe. Guess what...KT just looked at me like "Hey, what's the big deal?". I have been testing his same ear for nearing 3 years - the other ear is a turnip. Yep he has a red spot all the time on his light ear but it's extra capillaries and scar tissue.
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I was just wondering about KT's spreadsheet, I see sometimes his numbers are really good and sometimes are high, doesn't it seem like if you do the same things every day that the numbers would even out? Im just wondering if Weases numbers are going to do that even if I do the same exact thing every day.

I just expected that if I did the same routine every day I would get close to the same results every day?

also what are f units and s units? some ppl put F in front of their unit doses?
 
Jason,
You must ignore KT's spreadsheet - he has a lot of other medical problems going on including cancer. He's never truly been well regulated due to these other issues. He is a terrible bouncer, always has been. He's NOT the 'normal' cat...can't base anything off HIS spreadsheet! He also does not eat during the night causing early morning issues. We've tried all sorts of things but it hasn't worked. We just keep plodding along as best we can keeping him feeling as decent as possible.

The 'f' and 's' - that's 'Fat' and 'Skinny'. We've been doing this dance long enough that I know when I need to add an extra drop or drop off a drop - I note this as f or s. When you get used to this, you'll learn you can make THREE drops off each quarter unit. Those are the fats/skinnies. It's not based on his current exact number, it's based on knowing how his body USUALLY reacts.

One IMPORTANT thing I think we all forgot to cover with you - insulin is a HORMONE that their body has to have to convert the food into usable energy. It is NOT a chemical medicine that when you find the right dose, everything will suddenly be perfect and always the same. Many things affect bg levels - food, stress, excitement. You'll start learning what spikes Wease!

If you look at Dakota's spreadsheet, he is MUCH more regulated altho' his numbers run higher. He's been here with us for 8 months, we're still trying to find the reason we can't seem to get his numbers down. We're suspecting glaucoma so have tests hopefully scheduled for next week.

I'm SO HAPPY to read your thoughts today - I can tell it's beginning to make more sense, you don't seem as lost. WOOHOO!!
 
NitroViper said:
Wease's BG is 381 +2 after am dose. It barely even seemed to move?

.....doesn't it seem like if you do the same things every day that the numbers would even out? ...
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YES IT SHOULD! Also keep in mind that KT is on Lantus, a depot insulin - works a bit differently than PZI. According to protocol, the AM and PM doses SHOULD be the same to remain steady. Someone just forgot to tell KT.... :roll:
 
Wease's BG is 381 +2 after am dose. It barely even seemed to move?

Actually, this is good news. Maybe he is not going to have a fast onset and a short cycle. The other thing that can impact that first number after the shot is food. Food raises bg numbers so for the first few hours, the food and insulin are working against each other.

And you have to be patient, Jason. His body has to learn to use the insulin, along with the new food. Sometimes it takes a few cycles to see any real improvement.

Get another number in a couple hours if you can. See these early days as gathering data while keeping him safe.
 
Hi Jason! I just wanted to stop over and say welcome!!! I know you have gotten tons of advice already.

I hope now that you are getting in the swing of things, you feel better. I thought this sugar dance would take up tons of time and cost insane amounts. Really it added maybe 15 min to my morning and evening rituals and the vet visits were the expensive part! When I started testing at home etc, cost wasn't much of an issue.

We are here for ya!
 
Jason,

Congratulations! It looks like you are off the a great start. Will you be able to test every few hours today? That will give you so much great information. Sounds like your first reading went fine. I use the lancet tool without clicking it. I just use it as a handle without the end on and poke him in the ear at an angle. I rub his ears for several minutes first. It seems to relax him and warm up his ears. Then when we are done he gets a treat.
 
Ok at the +6 hour Wease is at 187 does that mean the insulin works or is that a normal cycle?

I will check again at the +9 hour mark.
 
That is definitely the insulin working to bring down the high 300s you were seeing earlier. Good job with all the testing! :thumbup
 
That is not a bad drop for the first day, about 50%. Yes, 9 should tell you how long it might last. If it's back up in the 300s, it is a shorter cycle than we like. But maybe he will get a longer cyle than most. We can hope. :-D

Some reference numbers: we generally say a cat is well regulated if they are in the mid 200s at preshot and in double digits at midcycle, but not below 40-50 which is hypo range. We suggest new diabetics not shoot under 200 but wait 20 minutes without feeding. If the number is rising and over 200, maybe shoot a reduced dose. A cat is considered in remission if they range from 40-120 wihtout insulin for two weeks.
 
What the test numbers mean:

Comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
How to use the glucose reference values chart:

When you get a test, look for the number on the chart that either equals, or contains, the test value you have. Read the information. As needed, make a decision and act.

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
 
Jason,

Very good number so far. How is Wease acting? Does he seem to feel any better? Is he eating okay?

Terri
 
BJM your post always confuse the heck out of me lol.

The reading from the relion are what I should be posting correct? or should I be adding 30 to the result on the Relion Confirm. Im just posting the number that comes up.

So should I be posting 217 or the 187 that came up on the Relion?

Wease is acting normal, sleeping a lot but he always does that.
 
Jason,

No post the actual reading from the Relion meter. The reading you get when you test Wease, that is what we are looking for. BJM is just talking about different meter variance.

Terri
 
Ok good, I was sad for a minute that he was higher than I thought.

His poor ears look all red and bruised! I'm actually having a really easy time getting enough blood but I feel bad looking at his ears. They are very transparent because he has white ears so maybe it looks worse.
 
You might also consider adding the brand of meter you are using to your signature and/or spreadsheet so folks who are helping you make sense of your numbers will know what is what.
 
Jason...I know all about the white ears! It looked like China had lost a fight with Freddy Krueger for awhile. Now in the "sweet spot", it's always darker but that's because her ears have "learned to bleed"....as you poke, new capillaries will form and discolor that area of the ear.

The best thing you can do for now is get some Neosporin with pain relief OINTMENT (not cream) and smear a little on after each poke. It will also help bead up the blood on your next poke.

Could you go ahead and add some information to your signature for us?

Your name/cats name, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, food, any other health problems? It will keep us from asking the same questions over and over.
 
NitroViper said:
BJM your post always confuse the heck out of me lol.
Click to expand...
Sorry about that. I did put instructions at the bottom. Maybe I should put them at the top?
 
You won't have to do this much testing after you have enough data to start seeing his patterns.

Wease...head kiss...you're doing GREAT too! Good boy
 
His BG reading at +9 is 304, its going to go back up to almost 400 at +12 isn't it :(

if its near 400 should I try 2 unit doses?

It only takes me like 15 seconds to get some of his blood, he doesn't really care that much. He kisses me right after :P
 
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