My Kitty has diabetes :( scared, worried, stressed.

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The diabeticcatcare site you mentioned is another diabetic cat forum. The one vet there, does believe that PZI is the best insulin for cats but that is based on her own opinions, not any research that I'm aware of. There are many cats on that forum that use other insulins too.

They have some very strict rules, like no grains at all in any food so the Friskies foods are forbidden.

We'd love to see a picture of your Wease on every post. Here are directions on how to shrink a picture and get one in your user control profile as an Avatar. Look at the 3rd response down for step by step instructions of one way to get your Avatar up and running. You could take that first picture you showed us and make that your avatar. Wease looks really cute and loving in that photo! ;-)
 
I talked to a pharmacist I know and he said Lantus is good for a year in the fridge? He said it says 28 days because that's as long as the pharmacy can keep it in their stock. I guess I should ask him more about it.

It seems like the pens would be the least waste?

Is PZI is really $50-60 for a 6 month supply tho? I may be confused.
 

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The price for the BCP PZI vial is correct. How long any insulin lasts varies with each cat, but generally it is about 6 months per vial.
 
It seems like PZI is much better for my budget. Everyone thinks its good insulin to use?

Deb & Wink said:
We'd love to see a picture of your Wease on every post.

Here is more pics of wease, I almost start getting really sad when I see pics of him tho!
 

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anyone know anything about Glipizide Tablets?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=10701

Who is it for?
Glipizide is for cats.

What are the benefits?


* Prescription diabetes medication for cats in convenient tablet form
* Manages diabetes mellitus by lowering blood sugar levels
* Use Glipizide oral hypoglycemic tablets for long-term diabetes management

Glipizide is a prescription diabetes medication used to manage diabetes mellitus in some cats by lowering the blood sugar level. Glipizide does not cure diabetes and will usually need to be given for the rest of the cat's life.
How does Glipizide work?
The exact way Glipizide works in the body is unknown. It is thought to work in the pancreas by helping it to produce more insulin. It may also work in the body to make the cells more sensitive to insulin.
 
We don't think glipizide is any kind of a substitute for insulin. It taxes the pancreas rather than letting it rest and recover. No one here has used it with success. With insulin, there is a chance for the pancreas to recover, for the cat to be regulated or in some cases, go into remission.
 
I too want to welcome you to the forum. My Tommy was DXed in Oct. like you I was scared and stressed about all of this. My vet sent me home with insulin, a 10 pack of syringes and a bag of dry "diabetic" food. I'm not new to diabetes though feline diabetes was new to me. Luckily I had a morning appointment with the vet so I had plenty of time to research. I truly thank God that I found this place!! I know that it saved Tommy's life. Cost is a factor that most of us share. My husband wanted to just put Tommy down as he thought it would be too expensive. Tommy is still with us and so much healthier. When I had a question for the vet she shook her head when I said I'd switched to low carb Friskies. I think she thought I was poisoning him.
These angels here will get you through all your "firsts". They will stay with you and help you, even cry with you. Think of this as a great adventure. If you love Wease as much as I do Tommy, all of this we do here is more than worth it. We all love our sugar dudes and each other's sugar dudes. Ask all the questions you have and we will guide you to helping Wease to a better health. I read the posts when I can and still learn from them. My prayers go to you and Wease. :razz:
 
Im still so scared reading everyone else posts about constant testing and nothing going right. Constant testing 4-8 times a day, choosing whether to give insulin or not, to give more or less. If I kill my cat ill never get over it.

What I am afraid of is if I start this regiment that he will all of the sudden get worse quickly and if I didn't start it he would survive along time with a better diet. Like he is fine now, he doesn't act strange, he seems very happy and alert. Just his legs are getting weak. Im afraid if I start giving him insulin and testing he will turn into a different cat, and health problems will start showing up quickly.
 
i am sorry you are getting worried reading the newbie threads. It's true people here are brand new to diabetes and like you, they have lots of questions and worries. If you could read their threads a few weeks from now, it would be completely different. Maybe you should go over to the PZI forum and read some of the threads there. Their cats are doing well on small doses of insulin. Most decide on doses themselves. When they need help, they ask.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24


If I were you, I would start with the hometesting first, see what his numbers are, see how the wet low carb diet is working. Then it should be an easy decision about the insulin. Either his numbers are high enough to need it or not.

Nearly every bean here reports that having diabetes, doing the testing and insulin, brings them and their cat closer together, creating a special new bond. It's as though the cat understands that the bean is making them feel better.
 
The Main Health Forum is for new members who are just getting started in this Sugar Dance, much like you. There is a huge learning curve, as you've seen, but we help you cross that hurdle and hold your hand all the way through it. Once you've gotten better at testing and have set up a spreadsheet, we will usually re-direct you to one of the ISG sub-forums for more specific daily assistance. If you check out those sub-forums, there's a lot less of "nothing going right" and many cats achieve remission within the first 6 months of diagnosis as people settle into the day-to-day management vs. the initial crisis of diagnosis.

As to testing, there are at minimum of 4 tests a day that help guide us on when to increase/decrease the dose:
  • Before every shot (the pre-shot (PS) test)
  • Mid-cycle test when possible (depending on the insulin, this is usually around 4-8 hour after the shot is given)
  • Before-bed test
All other tests provide us with additional data on how the cycle works specifically for your cat because ECID (Every Cat/Caretaker Is Different).

Home-testing is the safest way to manage this disease and significantly reduces the chance of you "killing your cat." Michelangelo was diagnosed diabetic around a year and a half ago and has never had a hypo or DKA because I test. Whenever he's gotten low numbers, with the help of the people here, I know what to do to keep his numbers up. When he seems to be running higher numbers and/or has a lack of appetite, I know what steps to take to stave off a potential DKA. All of the tools and information provided on this site help prevent the chances of something bad happening and that is what is most important here: the safety and well-being of the cat and caretaker.
 
Jason,
Not starting insulin if it's needed isn't going to make this go away....it's doing things inside you can't see right now. Changing to a good low carb diet may be the key, testing will tell you that.

KT and Dakota come to me when they hear their meter beeps, sometimes to the sound of the zipper. Dakota sometimes tries to put HIS head under my hands while I'm trying to test KT! "HEY Mama! I iz first!"

When KT was diagnosed, I was TERRIFIED of needles - literally fainted at the sight. KT taught ME quickly it was no big deal. Within a couple of weeks, we'd learned the steps - he spent over 2 years doing well. He does now have other issues but they're not associated with nor caused by diabetes. Last May, we adopted Dakota - our second diabetic, knowing he was extra sweet. He didn't know me from Eve ;-) when I started poking him less than 4 hours after I got him. He's happy, healthy and rarely hands me anything surprising.

I'll echo above - you're reading a lot of our newer people trying to learn the dance too. Some cats like nice slow waltz's, others like things like Tangos and FoxTrots....others can't yet figure out their favorites.

Wease, u iz adorable...dis is why I think so, u look like my baby I lost a year ago:

 
^^^Wease brother :)

Ill ask the vet tomorrow what his level was when he tested him. Im going to ask about a strict diet with me testing him to see if he can live that way. I mean if his levels aren't that bad. Or am I just being not willing to accept it yet?

I still haven't decided on Lantus or PZI, I can tell you this tho. I have been reading for 2 days straight from wake up till bed and I still feel like I haven't learned any thing!

Now I am messing up this post with doubt. Sigh
 
NitroViper said:
Im still so scared reading everyone else posts about constant testing and nothing going right. Constant testing 4-8 times a day, choosing whether to give insulin or not, to give more or less. If I kill my cat ill never get over it.

What I am afraid of is if I start this regiment that he will all of the sudden get worse quickly and if I didn't start it he would survive along time with a better diet. Like he is fine now, he doesn't act strange, he seems very happy and alert. Just his legs are getting weak. Im afraid if I start giving him insulin and testing he will turn into a different cat, and health problems will start showing up quickly.

Hi Jason and Wease! LOVE his pictures! He is so darn cute! My sugar dude Eddie was diagnosed just before Christmas. He wasn't feeling well at all. :cry: I can tell you that we went through the same fear and anxiety that you're experiencing. Like, how on earth are we going to be able to make this shot thing work with our schedule? Hypo - OMG I could kill my cat accidentally?! His numbers aren't going down!? WHY?! I think every newly diagnosed kitty caretaker goes through this.

The shots themselves are definitely not a big deal. It really doesn't hurt them. The needles used for insulin injections are really fine gauge and they barely feel it, if they feel it at all. If anything, it annoys them that they have to hold still for 5 seconds while you give the shot. My DH does most of the shooting now, but when I first was giving shots, I know Eddie could sense that I was nervous. Now, I take a few deep breaths before getting Eddie ready for his shot, which we give right after eating, so he's all full and happy, and make sure I'm in a positive, calm state of mind. I give him pets and love and praise after each shot.

The ear testing definitely gets easier. It took three days of trying before we got blood. DH wanted me to quit because I was so frustrated, I was in tears! Wouldn't you know it, within about two weeks, we were testing pros. Now, we usually get more than enough blood for each poke, and it takes about one minute. There's tons of tips on this board for the ear testing, and lots of people are happy to chime in to help you be successful with testing. Eddie, and I think most other cats, really don't mind the ear tests at all. The better you get at it, and the more their ears "learn to bleed (which sounds weird, but is true)" the simpler and quicker it is. It takes me way longer to set up the testing supplies now than it does to actually test. Eddie actually likes testing, since it means he's going to get a special, exclusive treat. He sits patiently on my lap and purrs while I do it. I'm convinced that Eddie thinks the ear testing is making him feel better, so he associates me doing it with feeling better. This process has definitely given Eddie and I a closer more loving relationship.

A lot of folks here test very frequently. And that's who you're going to see posting more frequently to the board as well. There's no requirement as to how many times a day you have to test, other than before each shot (for safety), and if possible, some mid-cycle tests so you have more information about how well his dose is working. Any other testing is really just to get more information. With Eddie for example, I test all the time because I really like to know the data about how a given dose is working for Eddie. It's really not necessary for me to test as frequently as I do -- I just like to have the info. :smile:

While you may be able to lower Wease's overall BG with a diet change, that's probably going to be just part of the picture. You don't want him to just "survive" if he feels miserable with high blood glucose all the time. Unregulated diabetes means that the cat cannot process it's food, and it's pretty much a slow starvation. :sad: DKA, which is a complication of unregulated diabetes can be deadly, and extremely expensive to treat. You are here because you love Wease and want to do what you need to do to get him healthy, and that is likely going to include insulin. Many, many cats are able to go into remission with the use of insulin and a diet change, meaning that your cat would no longer need insulin injections. Misty and Rumpelteazer are an example of a PZI (ProZinc) cat and caretaker that very recently went into remission, meaning kitty no longer needs shots! :mrgreen:

There's several different choices of insulin, and it sounds like you're considering a compounded PZI. That works similar to the ProZinc that we use for Eddie. It's really a flexible insulin, and you can adjust his dose as needed, and you don't have to be quite as consistent with the timing of the shots. You may be reading the threads for cats that are on one of the depot insulins which are a bit more complicated to understand. PZI is "in and out" which means that once it wears off, it's done, and you don't need to worry about a carry over into the next dose.

As for worrying about changing dose, there's different "protocols" for different types of insulin. What you might be reading again is questions from folks about whether to adjust based on the protocol for their particular insulin. The dosing advice you will get on this board will always be aimed first and foremost, for Wease's safety, and secondarily, to improving his blood glucose numbers. Assuming you go with the PZI, you'll likely want to start posting on the PZI sub-forum for dosing advise. Sue and others will chime in to give you advice on dosing, and the information you get will also come with an explanation as to why a particular recommendation is given. With Eddie, for example, we followed a conservative "sliding scale" with very gradual increases at first. We then had some discussions and some input on going with a more aggressive dose, and I made the decision to do that, since I felt comfortable with monitoring Eddie's levels. Other people feel more comfortable with a more conservative approach.

When I very first started posting, I asked for dosing advice about three times a day! :-D And there's nothing wrong with that at all! You can ask for dosing advise for each and every shot. :smile: You can see that I post in Eddie's daily "condo" what's going on with his numbers. This is not required, but it's nice to have some folks look over Eddie's numbers and give input and support. Sometimes people simply post encouraging words on your kitty's condo, and if you're having a rough day, that can mean all the difference in the world. :smile: If I have a question, like I did just this afternoon, I ask, and I get an answer. :smile:

There's a LOT of information to absorb, but you will get it! My suggestion would be to focus on one thing at a time, like Sue suggested. Start trying the ear testing, and start working on the diet change. You can always start the insulin at a low dose, and then once the testing and diet are under control, focus on tweaking Wease's insulin dose. Hang in there! It gets easier! Before you know it, you'll be posting on the threads of "newbies" telling them how nervous you were when you very first started, too. :-D

Jen and Eddie
 
Well that post makes me feel a lot better. I appreciate that. He is just so important to me!

Your post makes me lean more towards PZI. Its hard to get tho I read? I like that its cheaper fore sure. I don't mind filling a syringe.

I just would hate to waste insulin so being cheaper makes it feel better.

So you guys think I should try the ear testing for a few days before I start insulin? Especially since I might have a hard time at first. I been babying the heck out of Wease I think it actually makes me feel he is worse off than he is!!

So far I been feeding him twice a day, all the regular junk cat food is taken away. I been giving him about 8oz of food a day 4oz at 10am and 4oz 10pm a mix of wet and the evo cat food. I do not accurately measure the food but it should be close to 280 calories which was mentioned earlier in this thread.

I just want to make sure this is right

10am check BG from ear
10:05 give food
10:06 give shot according to BG reading

Check level again within a couple hours to see what it is?

Then repeat at 10pm?


After doing this a while his mid day check should be close to an average every day? Like I wont have to do that mid day check anymore? That's if I feed him the same thing the same time every day? Wease does not like eating twice a day that's for sure :) He dives right into wet cat food tho, his tail gets all puffy!
 
After doing this a while his mid day check should be close to an average every day? Like I wont have to do that mid day check anymore?

No...the nadir (which is the lowest point during each cycle) is USUALLY around +5 to +7 but can change with every cat and every cycle, so it's not something that will "average" out. It's important to know how far down a dose is taking Wease so mid-cycle tests are really important.

This will also be a little different depending on which insulin you end up using, but will still need to be done.

10am check BG from ear
10:05 give food
10:06 give shot according to BG reading

Check level again within a couple hours to see what it is?

Yes, this part is fine, and getting a +2 or +3 is a good test to get because it can give you an idea of where Wease's blood glucose is going later in the cycle, but if at all possible, you'll still need to get a test later in the cycle

You really can do this! We all arrived here scared, worried and stressed, and then were confused and overloaded with information. It will get better, we promise!
 
Just a note: if the glucose drops fast or drops to an unfamiliar number, compensatory hormones release a form of stored sugar (glycogen) which acts to bring the glucose back up. This is a protective/safety mechanism to help the cat. It can lead to somewhat higher numbers for the next 3 days or so, which is why we wait it out a bit before making any dosing decisions.
 
Chris & China said:
No...the nadir (which is the lowest point during each cycle) is USUALLY around +5 to +7 but can change with every cat and every cycle, so it's not something that will "average" out. It's important to know how far down a dose is taking Wease so mid-cycle tests are really important.

This will also be a little different depending on which insulin you end up using, but will still need to be done.

10am check BG from ear
10:05 give food
10:06 give shot according to BG reading

Check level again within a couple hours to see what it is?

Yes, this part is fine, and getting a +2 or +3 is a good test to get because it can give you an idea of where Wease's blood glucose is going later in the cycle, but if at all possible, you'll still need to get a test later in the cycle!

+2 +3 +5 +7 is hours past the shot? not sure exactly what that means. 5 to 7 hours is the mid point? When is the lowest point? right before the pm shot?

BJM said:
Just a note: if the glucose drops fast or drops to an unfamiliar number, compensatory hormones release a form of stored sugar (glycogen) which acts to bring the glucose back up. This is a protective/safety mechanism to help the cat. It can lead to somewhat higher numbers for the next 3 days or so, which is why we wait it out a bit before making any dosing decisions.

So I should start with the 1 unit dose and not change it for 3 days?
 
+2 +3 +5 +7 is hours past the shot? not sure exactly what that means.

Yes...the + means how many hours after the shot, so you have 2 cycles each day, an AM and a PM cycle. You test/feed/shoot and the clock starts and runs for 12 hours. If you get a test 3 hours after you shoot, it's +3, 7 hours after a shot is +7...then when it's time for the next shot, the clock starts over again.

Since we all live in different time zones, it's the best way for everyone to understand how long it's been since you gave a shot. That's the important thing.

When is the lowest point? right before the pm shot?

The lowest point (i.e. the nadir) is the point in each cycle where the insulin is working it's best...so the lowest reading...Usually it's around +5 to +7, but nadir's can move from cycle to cycle, so it's important to get tests at different times too (when you can)

So I should start with the 1 unit dose and not change it for 3 days?

1 unit is a good starting dose for most cats. Depending on which insulin you end up going with dictates how long you hold the dose. Lantus is dosed differently than ProZinc
 
What the test numbers mean:

Comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
How to use the glucose reference values chart:

When you get a test, look for the number on the chart that either equals, or contains, the test value you have. Read the information. As needed, make a decision and act.

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
 
Im still so scared reading everyone else posts about constant testing and nothing going right.

Keep in mind most folks will post a lot more with questions and concerns. You naturally won't see as many "things are going great!" and "things are still going great" posts.

I cannot overstate how much the generous folks on this message board have reassured me, given me confidence, and helped my cat, Napa. (Thank you everyone!!) Yes, we are still working on dosing, but that is because she generally needing less and less; and she is definitely eating better, peeing less, and has much stronger legs since we started insulin and testing in early January.

I can only echo what everyone else has said....deep breaths, take your time...it's worth it to understand how your cat is reacting to the changes.
 
Hi Jason and Wease

Lots of info has been coming your way the last few days. In trying to decide which insulin to use, you might went to consider more then just the cost. Lantus and levemir are gold standard insulins for cats. They are long duration, lasting at least 12 hours so we typically shoot every twelve hours. They are also depot insulins so, as an oversimplification, they build a depot under the skin by different methodologies and the insulin is released slowly over time. PZI is a medium acting insulin lasting about 8-10 hours or so.

The L insulins like consistency so you would typically shoot the same dose twice a day unless an increase or decrease is warranted and doses are primarily based on the nadir. With PZI, you dose based primarily on the preshot.

The tight regulation protocol for Lantus and levemir is the only scientifically researched protocol published in a scientific veterinary journal and it provides cats with the best chance for going into remission. The great thing about the protocol is it gives you a guide for the starting dose, when to increase, when to hold the dose, and when to decrease. Plus...there is almost always someone around on these forums to help you.

I think you need to decide which insulin you are going to use, learn how to hometest, and get started. The longer Wease remains at high numbers, the more glucose toxicity and insulin resistance can occur. He also needs the Zobaline to help with the neuropathy.

Most cats adjust quickly to hometesting. My Gracie often sleeps through her tests. You'll learn how to do it quickly. Most of us will tell you that while we wish our kitties were not diabetic, it has increased our bond with our babies. Many of them learn to go to their testing spots.

There are two things that put you in control to keep Wease safe: hometesting and feeding.

We have quite a few male members who adore their cats and do everything they can for them. While their numbers might be in the minority, they love their cats every bit as much as the female board members. My husband, Mike, is extremely involved in Gracies care and had been from the beginning. He tests her, shoots her, manages her curve with food, posts on the board, and is integrally involved in dosing decisions.

It's scary but you have to start somewhere and I'd start with learning to hometest. If your vet tries to discourage you, ask him if he'd give his child insulin without testing first. I bet he wouldn't.

This forum is a phenomenal place. It's saved many, many kitty lives. Hundreds of kitties have gone into remission.
 
Hi Jason and Wease

I haven't seen too many posts on tips for transitioning to canned food. We can give you pointers on that too. I had a sugarcat addicted to high carb dry food but she was also very thirsty. When I added lots of water to her pate food, she chose to eat that over the dry food so I removed the dry food and she has not missed it. She also rejected any other dry food like EVO.

I never thought I would see it but she also never drinks from the water bowl because she gets all her hydration from her watered down food. There are also many other tips we can provide.

It is good that you are learning. We all did this in the beginning - read, and asked and read and read some more. It gets easier and then becomes just a part of the routine of your day. And the reward is that your kitty is happy and living a long life with you.

This disease is manageable. And only ten months ago, I was the nervous newbie like so many others here. You will get to where we are and then be able to help others.

You will be fine.
 
I been babying the heck out of Wease I think it actually makes me feel he is worse off than he is!!

Please read this post A message from your cat but replace the Mom with Dad. It may help you to relieve some of your anxiety and know that Wease is ok.

We'd love to help you make him feel even better.

One step at a time. One day at a time. It does get easier, trust me.
 
terri1962 said:
Jason,

Did you go to Walmart and get a meter yet?

Terri

I will today after I get Wease's blood test results. Praying nothing else is wrong.

After looking at some of your spread sheets it doesn't look as bad as I expected. Its easier to watch what their BG is and the unit shot you gave them. It seemed to get better after a short time. I was thinking my numbers were going to be all over It was going to be a stressful nightmare. I know I don't know his numbers yet but those spreadsheets made me feel better.
 
Jason,

Please let us know after you get his results what is going if you would. Yes we are all praying all else is well with Wease, he is such a handsome boy.

Terri
 
Hi Jason,

I just wanted to share my story with you to help you feel encouraged.

My cat Skipper went to the vet on December 19, 2013 very close to death. He had diabetic Ketoacidosis. He didn't get to come home until Christmas Day. There were several times during that extremely expensive stay that I wondered if I was doing the right thing trying to save him. The vet was never able to get his BG into low numbers, but then they were feeding him a prescription cat food that was 26% carbs! The day he came home his BG was in the 500's and they had given him 3 units of Prozinc. While he was at the vet, I found this message board. So before he came home, I was armed with low carb food (we started out with Fancy Feast), testing strips, lancets and a meter. The vet did encourage home testing, but maybe not to the extent that I planned on doing it.

I wasn't that great at testing at first but I got better. Sometimes he still gets mad at me but he snuggles with me later so all is well. Skipper loves PureBites freeze dried shrimp cat treats for his reward. I basically tested 3 times per day and set up a protocol of dosage based on others charts, and help from people on the PZI message board. Check out Skipper's chart.

So here we are now 7 1/2 weeks later and Skipper is off insulin and diet controlled. The important thing for us is that we keep contraband out of his reach...crackers, popcorn, and pizza crust. We also need to make sure that he is fed at regular intervals. This can be tough when you have things to do, so I am looking into getting some timed wet food feeders. Skipper is very sensitive to carbs. I find that even the Friskies Mixed Grill is too high for him so we stick with Turkey and Giblets and a few Poultry platter because Walmart doesn't usually have enough Turkey and giblets. I buy the big size cans and store in the refrigerator until used up which isn't long since we have 3 cats. I switched all our cats to the same food and feeding schedule. They all did great and look healthier. It amazes me how they do not need much water now that they are off the dry food. They use to drink a ton.

Hang in there! You can do this. It is not as hard and overwhelming as it seems. You definitely do not need to be paying a vet to test your cat and change your dose. We were told that we would have to go back to the vet and pay for a curve around $284.00 (this is after a $1387 bill from his stay), but we never did. It wasn't necessary. He hasn't been back to the vet since. I do text the vet occasionally and let her know how he is doing. Oh, and I bought my needles from American Diabetes wholesale and they came with a disposal container. I use the ReliOn Ultima meter and the lancet thing that came with it. I also have a Onetouch Delica lancet system which I like better but the lancets are really expensive.

I think that is all the information I have. I'll be thinking of you today as you get your test results. Let us know how it goes!

Rae Ann
 
I still don't have the results yet, Ill just be patient. I actually don't want to do anything to him yet till I know for sure everything else is ok. Ill buy the testing stuff when the results come back. If anything else is wrong I will have to make decisions based of that. I could never decide to put him to sleep, look at his face! But if other stuff is wrong ill talk to the vet about my options so that he never suffers and let him go with me happy.
 
Hi Jason and Wease!

The initial diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming! My husband and I did discuss putting Cobb down. We had a baby on the way. How was I going to poke him and give him a shot every day?!

Our vet sounds similar to yours. She said dry "diabetic" food was fine. We were feeding Evo. And we didn't need to monitor daily. Cobb was diagnosed in April and remained in the 500/600 range for months!! We maxed how much we could use of Prozinc and ultimately switched to Lantus. After a vial of it, and no results, I was pretty upset and found FDMB. Cobb was on 10units at the time. We were doing a curve every 3-4 weeks. It was frustrating! We've all been there!

Since getting here, we do test multiple times a day and Cobb's numbers have improved GREATLY!

Everyone does things differently so you're going to get a lot of different advice. You have to pick and choose what works for you. But the main things are switching to wet food - that can bring Wease's numbers down several hundred points immediately. And you need to get the preshot tests to make sure it is safe to shoot. In that sense, higher numbers are "safer" than low ones, which can quickly kill. Higher numbers at preshot time don't necessarily mean a higher dose of insulin, at least on Lantus.

Ask lots of questions. If you're ever unsure of what to do, post here. The board is pretty active. Usually there is someone online.

Good luck. Don't stress. You got this!

And don't worry about Wease hating you. He'll quickly adjust to the ear pokes and shots. Cobb doesn't even flinch. It's a minor irritation from me holding him still.

~Suzanne
 
Is 8oz of food a day good for him? His weight was 12.5 at the vet but he is skinnier than normal. Feeding at 10am and 10pm. He seems like he is starving. I guess he is use to having food out all day all night tho. I am not measuring it exactly, but eyeballing it. Do these things have to be exact every day?

Im feeding him Friskies classic pate variety pack, that's all walmart had.

There is 8 Mixed Grill, 8 Turkey and Giblets and 8 Ocean and Whitefish Dinner.
 
I feed my cats several small meals and snacks throughout the day especially since I removed the dry grazing. I have never heard of feeding only two meals exactly 12 hours a part. That seems strange to me. We do shoot insulin twice a day exactly 12 hours a part but I wouldn't have a house left if I restricted food that way. Do you think you misunderstood or your vet confused the two?

I even freeze the pate food with added water in muffin tins to make cat cicles that I can leave out to thaw during the day when I am not home to offer a middle of day snack.
 
Lots of vets say to feed 2 times/day when you give shots. This is just because they want to make sure the cat is eating before shooting.

It's actually better for the pancreas to give several small meals, so it's NOT necessary to only feed every 12 hours. Decide how much you should be feeding, and divide it into smaller meals. Some people try to feed before +6 so that as the insulin is wearing off, there's no more food, but some of us feed on a schedule like Pre-shot, +4 and +8. How your cat reacts to food and insulin will determine what feeding schedule is best for him.

It's important to take food up 2 hours before shots so that your Pre-shot tests are without the influence of food, but otherwise, you can feed when it works best for Wease

If Wease weighs 12lbs, to stay at that weight you'd need to feed him 233 calories per day. You can find the amount of calories in each 5.5 oz can of Friskies pates on the Food Chart

Cats who aren't controlled yet will eat a lot more food but still lose weight because without insulin, they can't get the nutrition out of the food. They're actually slowly starving. Once better controlled, the amount of food they'll want will come down.
 
but 8oz a day is ok? That's about 270-280 calories. That's about 2.6oz a feeding. I would feed about 10am 4pm and 10pm. About 1 and a half cans a day. they are 5.5oz each. I think that would make Wease much happier.

imagine the calories he was consuming before grazing dry cat food all day and with me giving him treats and sometimes human food!
 
Sounds good Jason...you may find later on that he's very carb sensitive so you may not want him eating in the last half of the cycle, but that's something you can't know until you're testing, shooting and gathering data.

You can also weigh him. It's not a bad idea to do that anyway so you can make sure he's getting enough and you can monitor his weight gain. When he's at his "perfect" weight, you may have to feed less since we don't want him to get too fat either.

Mixed Grill..11% carbs, 171 calories per 5.5oz can
Turkey & Giblets..8% carbs, 187 calories
Ocean Whitefish & Tuna...9% carbs, 187 calories
 
Ok Im am very $!@#$! off.... and I don't get $#@%3 off very easy....

I called the vet this morning to see if the results came in. They didn't get the full results yet so I told them I would stop there at 1:30 to see if they had them and get a copy. So I did and they still didn't have them. About an hour ago I called to speak to a vet tech to ask a little bit about diabetes and treatments and diff kinds of insulin.

The vet called me back about 30 minutes ago and told me they came back and the results came back fine and any abnormalities are coming from diabetes... Ok I was fine with that.

I went on to tell him what I was reading and doing research and asked If he could get me Lantus or PZI. He immediately got mad and said Vetsulin is a form of PZI with a different name.

He said since I came there and didn't have much money they helped me out with needles and some insulin, which they did and I told him I understood and im grateful for that. He said now im going against what he is telling me to do and I looked on Dr.google and not listening to him. He said the people hear are advertising or promoting Lantus or PZI.... Then he says I think you need to find another VET. I said you should be happy I am trying to find the best ways to help my cat. He then said you didn't even want to treat your cat when I was there... That's BS I never said that to him and was aking questions how to do it with very little money.

So I say to him, well can you prescribe me Lantus? He says I don't know Ill have to look it up in the next few days.

He actually told me you called here 4 times today leaving a message, that's borderline harassment... I said harassment? Because I care about my cat and I am curious whats going on? I was never mean or nothing. I am a very polite person....

So now I don't know what to do, I am not going back to that person.
 
Jason,

Wow, I don`t know what to say. I can`t believe a vet would talk to you like that. I am not sure what to tell you to do. You need to get Wease on some kind of insulin. Go right now and get a meter. Do you already have the Vetsulin and needles? What were his levels per the paperwork?
I am so sorry a professional would speak to you like that cat(2)_steam

Terri
 
Oh Jason!!! That's AWFUL! THAT vet has a 'God Complex' which I can't stand! He works for YOU - it's YOUR money paying him! I don't care how 'nice' they thought they were being with the offer of a bit of insulin and syringes, that attitude is just WRONG. Yep, time for a new vet...

HUGS!!! Xtra scritches for Wease too!
 
Do you want to give your city and state? Maybe someone knows a Fd friendly vet near you.

I'm sorry you were treated so badly. He clearly has forgotten that you are the customer!

I agree that you might get the inexpensive ReliOn meter from Walmart, strips and lancets (no prescription needed) and try home testing and see where his numbers really are.

And no, PZI is not Vetsulin. Different insulins made by different companies. Vetsulin is made primarily for use in dogs; PZI is only used in cats.
 
Unfortunately, that's an attitude we hear about all too often Jason. We had to go to 3 vets before I found one willing to work WITH me instead of dictate TO me.

Call around and talk to other vets. Tell them you know you have a diabetic cat and ask them if they support things like home testing, feeding a low carb diet and prescribing a good insulin for cats, such as Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc.

When you find one you like, get your blood test results from your old vet. You paid for them, they are YOURS! That will save you money by not having a new vet have to re-run the same tests.

It's great that at least the only thing Wease has is diabetes...I know you were concerned about him having multiple problems. Since it's "only" diabetes, you're already in the best place you could be, and have learned enough to advocate for Wease with other vets so you're treating him the best way possible.

Sorry you had to put up with yet another vet who thinks they're God.
 
I live in Horseheads NY if anyone is close to me :) Or knows a good vet.

Well I really want to go get his testing stuff but I think im going to wait till tomorrow and get a new VET. It's not easy finding a new one when they wont talk to you without being a patient.

I don't want to start him on vetsulin and maybe tomorrow I can find a new vet that will listen to my concerns and prescribe him PZI or Lantus.
 
Gosh Jason. I'm so sorry about that! I had a similar issue with my vet, in that she got ticked off I came to her asking questions about things I learned here, including high dose testing. She wanted to charge me to discuss everything even though all I had asked her was how much the tests were.

I'm now "in between" vets. I'm still able to get the insulin since it is filled at Publix and the prescription was on file. But we are not returning to her.

I'd go ahead and get a meter and start home testing. And work on switching the food. If Wease's numbers aren't incredibly high, you might be able to bring them down with a food change. Some diabetics can be diet controlled. And it's better to start the wet food before insulin so the dry food isn't influencing those BG numbers!
 
I'll send out an enquiry, but it looks like you are about 80 miles from Rochester or Syracuse? Is it pretty rural or there a few vets in your town? You may have to do your own search. Call up vets and ask if what kind of insulin they prescribe for diabetic cats, what kind of diet they suggest and if they support home testing. At this point, the insulin is the most important answer. You can feed what you like and you can test at home without their permission.
 
You should be able to find a new vet by calling and asking them to call you back when they have time. That's what we did. At least you'll learn how willing they are to work with you that way. You shouldn't have to be their patient first. You're just asking how they'd treat a diabetic cat if you choose to use them...if they tell you you must buy some great prescription food they have there, or you have to buy a pet only meter, keep looking.

I agree you should go ahead and get the testing supplies. You could be using this time to get Wease used to testing when it's not so important since you're not giving insulin yet. Once you start actually shooting, you will HAVE to get tests in...you could be spending this time getting him used to the idea.

It will also let you (and us) know how important it is for you to start treatment..if his blood glucose numbers now are in the 200's, that's one thing...if they're in the 500's, that's another and we'd at least want you to start testing for ketones in his urine. DKA is expensive to treat, and not always successful. It's easier to treat at home if you catch it early though.
 
I did ask what his BG level was on the blood test he said 540.... but he was stressed and was on the junk cat food.

He actually just called me back as I was writing this post....

He was a different person, musta felt bad, but he still recommends Vetsulin over lantus. He told me Lantus has dropped off lately.

He told me again that Vetsulin is PZI for cats and dogs.

He also told me he has been treating cats with diabetes for 21 years and only 2 ppl have home tested.

Should I stay with him and use the Vetsulin? Why does he keep saying its PZI and the forums say it isn't?

Vetsulin® (porcine insulin zinc suspension) is an aqueous suspension containing 40 IU per mL of highly purified
porcine insulin consisting of 35 percent amorphous and 65 percent crystalline zinc insulin. As a lente insulin,
Vetsulin is classified as an intermediate-acting insulin. In cats, the peak activity following subcutaneous
administration of Vetsulin is generally expected to be around 4 hours, but can occur between 1.5 and 8 hours.
The duration of activity can vary between 8 and 12 hours. The peak, duration of activity, and dose required to
adequately control diabetic signs will vary between cats. In general, cats require twice-daily dosing of Vetsulin.


Here is the Vetsulin tech bulletin http://www.vetsulin.com/PDF/Vetsulin-Feline-Tech-Bulletin.pdf
 
Vetsulin is most certainly NOT the same thing as Prozinc. I don't know why your vet is continuing to say that other than that's what he's used to using (probably with dogs since they're much more likely to see diabetic dogs in their practice than cats).

Here's a good article on the differences http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2013/05/whats-best-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.html

Taken from that article:
Is this the initial insulin of choice for cats?
A number of studies have proven that Vetsulin will certainly control hyperglycemia in cats, especially if combined with a low carbohydrate diet (<10% of calories) (8-11). However, the duration of action may be too short in some diabetic cats, and most feel that the longer acting insulin preparations (glargine, detemir or ProZinc) work better to maintain better control of hyperglycemia in cats (11-13).

Of course, maintaining glycemic control throughout the day is more important if diabetic remission is the goal (13,15,16)— if not, Vetsulin might be less expensive and certainly would be more than adequate in most cats (8-10)

Most authorities would rank insulin glargine as the first choice of insulin in cats (Lantus), then insulin detemir or PZI (not the compounded product (17), but FDA-approved ProZinc), then Vetsulin, then finally NPH as a very last choice.

The Lantus TR Protocol is a published protocol that has shown to get up to 84% of cats OTJ (off the juice) within the first 6 months. The hope is to get remission so they're off insulin and diet controlled.
 
Vetsulin = porcine zinc suspension
PZI = protamine zinc suspension

Not the same thing at all.

Some cats do get a long duration on Vetsulin/Caninsulin. You're more likely see good control of clinical signs but poor glycemic control. It's the 1st legally required choice of insulin in Europe. We have some UK members that could help to guide you in the use of the Vetsulin, if that is the way you want to go.

He also told me he has been treating cats with diabetes for 21 years and only 2 ppl have home tested.

Does your vet encourage or discourage home testing? If he is not actively encouraging home testing, then it's no surprise that so few people in his practice do home test.

The AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats ,vet journal published in May 2010, certainly encourage home testing.
##Home monitoring of BG is ideal and strongly encouraged to obtain the most accurate interpretation of glucose relative to clinical signs.34 Most owners are able to learn to do this with a little encouragement, and interpretation of glucose results is much easier for the clinician. See Table 2 for web links to client educational materials.

That same vet journal article has this to say about the Vetsulin:
This panel does not recommend the veterinary-approved porcine zinc (lente) insulin suspension as the initial treatment for the cat, because its duration of action is short and control of clinical signs is poor.32 This insulin should be reserved for cats in which other insulin choices have not yielded satisfactory results.

You might want to ask your vet what the remission rate is for cats in his clinic that are using the Vetsulin he prefers. Some studies show Lantus has a >90% remission rate, Levimir 80-90% remission rate, PZI 37-50% remission rate, Vetsulin/Caninsulin 20-30% remission rate.
 
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