My first day

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shellbell

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My Jersey was just diagnosed with Diabetes. The vet said his fasting blood sugar is well over 400 :( I'm giving him his first insulin shot tonight. 3 units, so the dosage is light, but I'm still scared. I'm really glad there are others here to talk to about all of this.. I practiced with sterile water at the vets office today, but I'm just freaking about doing the real thing on my own tonight... nailbite_smile
 
Welcome to our FDMB family and be patient with yourself. You sound like you really love your cats, so you have come to the perfect place. Get some chocolate, sit back and get ready to read. Also, remember Every Cat Is Different. (ECID) Also, remember opinions may vary sometimes on this board, so you may get different views. Unfortunately, that is human nature.


Sorry this is very long, but there is a lot to say! Also, remember we were ALL newbies once and are feeling just like you are right now! OK……..breathe……….

What kind of insulin are you giving? 3u is kinda high to start with? Others will be along with their opinions?


You do not need any type of prescription food or “special” diabetic food. Janet & Binky’s chart is on the top of this page! Low carb is best for diabetics. I try to stay around 10% or under. I feed Whiskas, 9-Lives and mostly Friskies. Diabetes is very treatable and does not cost as much as you would think. If you are giving a high dose of insulin and feeding dry, be careful with switching to canned food. You MUST reduce the insulin at the same time you switch to canned food.


Please create a profile if you have not already done so. It will help us to help you. We need to know what kind of insulin you are on, what needles you are using (U-40 or U-100), what are you feeding, how much insulin you are giving and when, BG test results, etc. There are many people on this board from all over the world, so it will be helpful to know what area and time zone you are in.


Remember that your cat is YOUR cat, and YOU are paying your VET to help you take care of him; diabetes was probably a day or two worth of notes when the vet was in college; it is probably NOT a day-to-day existence with his own cat trying to maintain a quality of life. Sorry to say, but I would have overdosed my guys on insulin if I followed my vet's advice. Vets, unfortunately are not as knowledgeable as they should be on diabetes.


Sometimes, as I did, you have to take a leap of faith and trust these people on this board who deal with diabetes day in and day out. Trust me. You will not be disappointed. OK………..breathe again……….get some chocolate……..


Also, please realize that it takes insulin about a week to settle. START LOW AND GO SLOW!! The usual starting dose is 1u twice a day for at least a week. You have to be patient, as I also had to learn!! Do not adjust the dose upwards based on one test. Don’t freak out based on one test result. As long as the levels stay on the high side, keep the same dose twice a day for at least the initial week period and you should see improvements. When you have some time (hee hee), read my profile.


If you are not hometesting already, you really need to start!! Hometesting is VERY important. Think of it as a human diabetic does. *If it were you or a child of yours, you'd be testing blood glucose levels at home prior to each shot; you'd be working with your doctor to determine a proper dose based on those shot results, correct?* Some vets do not agree with hometesting and I cannot for the life of me understand why. Most vets, sadly are not knowledgeable enough in feline diabetes. Insulin is a VERY powerful drug and you NEED to hometest before giving a shot. This is very important. The vet would rather have you bring the cat to them, stress it out more, which may spike the levels anyway and then they can charge you $$. Hometesting saved me a lot of money and it is VERY important for you personally to know the cat’s levels and how it is reacting to the insulin before you shoot so you do not pass up your ideal dosage.


Thanks to everyone's help here I learned to home test 2 cats and they both got off insulin within 3 weeks with diet change…but of course, they reacting both DIFFERENTLY with the process. If I can do it with 2 cats twice a day (and more on curve days), ANYONE can do it. It does NOT hurt them as much as you think it does. It just stings for a moment and then it is gone, you can try it on yourself. Also, put pressure on the ear after poking and it should minimize the nub. They won't mind it once they start feeling better. I use the True Track meter (CVS or Walgreens brand) which I love. And, the strips are also reasonable. Also, remember to give them a treat after the test. Here is a link to a member videos on hometesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398



I would not feed DRY food if at all possible. Of course, it is better than nothing – you MUST get them to eat if you are giving insulin, but if there is any chance, get them off the dry. I took my guys off dry and within a month they were off insulin. Again, remember that switching from dry to wet can cause a drop in blood sugars, so you MUST reduce insulin at the same time to make sure you are not giving too much insulin. I truly believe also that I saved some of my many others from developing diabetes. I also saved so, so much money changing them all to regular canned cat food.


When Blackie and Jackie got diagnosed, I was afraid to start shots. The people on this board made me realize it was no big deal. (They went on PZI insulin around 3-25-06 and went off on 4-18-06! Please also realize that diet plays a BIG, BIG part in insulin needs. I switched my cats off dry food to all wet and I was never so happy. It was a challenge to try to regulate 2 cats at once.


Welcome to the Sugar Dance.
Welcome to the Vampire Club.

If I can do it, ANYONE can!!!
It does get easier. Trust us.


You need to test BEFORE you shoot. It usually goes: Test, Feed, Shoot



There's a saying something like "better the sugar level is too high for a day than too low for a minute".
 
Thank you for your reply. The Insulin is Lantus Insulin. The vet said it was such a small amount it wouldn't even affect him???
 
PLEASE don't give the insulin yet. Unless there are some other health problems, 3 units is a large dose to start with. We urge people to start low and go slow (usually .5 or 1 unit) One of the reasons your vet may be starting so high is that he may have gotten high numbers. But we are often concerned that kitties are stressed at the vet, and stress raises bg levels. Basing dosages on those numbers is dangerous.
 
Welcome.

I'm working now so I can't write a detailed response, but wanted to let you know that 3 units of Lantus might be considered a high starting dose. I'm not sure why your vet thought it was a light dose.

I'm not trying to scare you but you need to be aware of what to do in case you see symptoms of hypoglycemia.

Please read Melissa's post on how to treat Hypoglycemia.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1637

Best,
Pam & Layla
 
No. Weight is considered in dogs, but not cats. There are many cats here at that weight who started at a low dosage.

The issue is you are treading on scary ground if the dose is too high. There are few downsides to starting low.
 
Many vets do believe it should be based on weight, but no, it should not be based on weight. Cats do not metabolize insulin the same as dogs do.
 
Ok now I'm freaking out..

Should I call him and ask him?

He said the insulin won't start working for a week or so,so I didn't need to worry about him reacting to it and that I need to bring him back in 10 days to have him monitored all day.
 
what are you feeding him? dry or wet?

Sorry, hun, but I think your vet is very misinformed. The insulin is a very powerful drug and he can react very quickly to it :(
 
Cats are not dosed by weight.

If you start at too high a dose, you could go right past the ideal dose and get into a serious
situation known as 'rebound'....won't go into that just now.

The safe and usual starting dose of any insulin for cats is 1unit 2x per day.

The insulin will take a while to 'settle' and for your kitty's body to learn to utilize this new
and wonderful resource.

You might see improvement within 4-7 days. The best way to know if the dose
needs adjusting (up or down), is BG testing at home.

Good time to progress towards home testing. Then you can really tell what is going
on. And based upon your home tests, you can raise the dose gradually, if warranted.

By gradually, I mean .5 to 1u raise in the dose.

Most cats are regulated on 1-3 units 2x/day.

Tests at the vet are often off, because the cat is stressed and the BG readings there
will be higher than in the cat's home environment.
 
I don't want to freak you out. But I am concerned. You gave the insulin, right? Did you copy off the hypo info that Pam gave you? Do that and watch him for any unusual signs - like odd noises, or sleepiness or extreme hunger. There are a list of the symptoms on Pam's list.

If I were you, I would go get a glucometer. (Or do you have a diabetic friend who might let you borrow theirs?0 Walmart sells a good cheap one called ReliOn. We can take you through the steps. If you have blood glucose numbers tonight, you can see what the insulin is doing. If he goes too low, you will have ways to counteract it.

Your vet felt 3 units was okay. I don't think he will change his mind tonight. It's going to be up to you to keep him safe. We do know about insulin and diabetic cats and we can help you. Lots of people are on line and have experience.
 
He told me to give him 3 units every 12 hours...

Ohmigosh.. I'm so confused and scared now. I don't want to do anything wrong.

I feed him wet and dry... Kind of a soup thing he likes.. LOL
 
No, I haven't given him anything yet.. I'm supposed to start tonight.

Is there any harm in giving him 1.5 units instead? Can something bad happen with that?
 
So glad to hear you haven't given a dose yet. Why don't you take some time and read through the Lantus information on the Insulin Support Group forum. That will give you lots of good information. Read the FAQ's on the site. It is alot of information to absorb, but I am afraid that you will need to become the expert here, not your vet. Ask lots of questions. You can decide for yourself how much insulin to start with. Your vet isn't expecting you to check in for a week or so. By then, you could be hometesting and have lots of data to take back to him.

Often people come here with advice from the vet that is not the best. I know it is hard to take our advice over the vet, but we have a great rate of success. And lots of us have educated our vets on insulin dosages and hometesting. My vet started us on a high dose. Luckily we were hometesting and could adjust fast. My vet wasn't sure about my hometesting, but now refers people to us for help.

Edited to reply to the 1.5 If I were you, I would start with 1 unit at the most. And I would learn how to hometest now. But, as I said, do some reading first. Not giving a shot tonight would not be awful. Educate yourself first so that you are confident in what you are doing.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
I think Ceil and I both are PZI users. I will ask some Lantus users to come over and give you information on it, specifically.


Thank you so much! Were you guys all a mess like this in the beginning?? I'm sitting here shaking...
 
Lantus is a U-100 insulin (100 units of insulin per ml of liquid).

You should be using insulin syringes 'for U-100 insulin'.

You can get insulin syringes at any pharmacy....don't have to purchase them from the
vet. Cheaper at pharmacy.

A unit is a unit, the world around. So no confusion there.

Hope you give only 1unit at most tonight.
 
Just to mention....put this on a list of things to address later.

Next time you buy Lantus, ask your vet to write a prescription
for the cartridges or pens, rather than the 10ml vial.

You will not come anywhere close to using all of the 10ml vial before
it 'goes bad' after opening. You will be tossing out a lot of expensive
insulin.

The cartridges or pens are cheaper in the long run.

Ask a Lantus user for more information.
 
Absolutely! No one on this forum wasn't a basket case when they got the diagnosis and for weeks afterward. Our vet was on Christmas break and no one in the office wanted to give us diabetic advice. We came here and the people on this forum literally save Oliver's life.

The best way to get calm is to read and read. And print out what you have read so you can read it again. It's a steep learning curve but you can do it. And we can help you.
 
You have no idea how much I appreciate this board ( or maybe you do) I came back from the vets - googled feline diabetes and you were the first place that came up.. and I'm so glad!
 
Lantus is u100. How a cat responds is going to be different depending on the cat, but there are problems with starting with that high a dose in that 1) you are possibly going right past what your cats optimal dose and cause various problems as earlier stated and 1) some cats are super sensitive and may respond right away with a big drop. We've seen that with a couple of cats on lantus. I'm wondering how your vet decided on that particular dose. If your kitty is a dry food eater, I'd guess he may end up on a higher dose, but in general, the lantus protocol is to start at 1 unit twice a day. Now, here is the thing, you really need to test a cats blood with a meter (any human glucometer with sipping strips will work) to know what is going on. The insulins lantus and levemir *tend* to gradually bring a cat's numbers down, but most of us who have used it have seen improvements pretty quickly, even if the numbers haven't come down yet. Most people increase that dose very slowly, as close to .25 units as you can eyeball.

You are probably feeling really overwhelmed right now, but that is normal. If you can get a hold of your vet, you can say "I'm just more comfortable starting with 1 unit and working up. Do you think we can do that?" After all, you are the one treating the cat, at home with the cat and who would have to deal with any adverse situation that might happen if the dose is too high. For the vet to say "it wouldn't affect him" is, I suspect, an attempt to keep you from being too anxious but any amount of insulin could affect him. It just depends. The only way you are going to know though is by testing. I hope you feel up to trying that! It may seem overwhelming at first, but it's one sure way to make you feel more comfortable and less anxious.
 
oh my goodness, yes, I was most definitely a big mess of confusion and totally afraid. I had 2 cats at once diagnosed and boy, were they different. bcatrun_gif

One of my boys almost hypo'd the first nite. Went from 422 down to the 40's with 2u - HIS FIRST SHOT - and my other boy was ok with 2u. So, they really kept me on my toes!! :lol:
 
hi and welcome.

he didn't develop diabetes overnight and you can't cure it with one shot so take a deep breath, get your wits about you and yes, lets get you some lantus people before you give that shot ok. you don't have to jump in guns a blazing and worry about that shot getting done right away. you can take a little bit and talk to some people here and do some reading if you'd like so you feel more comfortable with all this ok. breathe :smile:
 
shellbell said:
Sue and Oliver said:
I think Ceil and I both are PZI users. I will ask some Lantus users to come over and give you information on it, specifically.


Thank you so much! Were you guys all a mess like this in the beginning?? I'm sitting here shaking...

My hands shook for a week, and I didn't even think I was really that freaked out. (I try to be matter of fact about everything) Ha! It's ok. We were all like that in the beginning.
 
Okay, now that you are not so freaked out, I am going to nag you about hometesting again. (I'm a mother, I nag....) If you want, you can post your city and state. Maybe we have someone who lives nearby and could come help you out the first time.
 
Karen & Pearl said:
Lantus is u100. How a cat responds is going to be different depending on the cat, but there are problems with starting with that high a dose in that 1) you are possibly going right past what your cats optimal dose and cause various problems as earlier stated and 1) some cats are super sensitive and may respond right away with a big drop. We've seen that with a couple of cats on lantus. I'm wondering how your vet decided on that particular dose. If your kitty is a dry food eater, I'd guess he may end up on a higher dose, but in general, the lantus protocol is to start at 1 unit twice a day. Now, here is the thing, you really need to test a cats blood with a meter (any human glucometer with sipping strips will work) to know what is going on. The insulins lantus and levemir *tend* to gradually bring a cat's numbers down, but most of us who have used it have seen improvements pretty quickly, even if the numbers haven't come down yet. Most people increase that dose very slowly, as close to .25 units as you can eyeball.

You are probably feeling really overwhelmed right now, but that is normal. If you can get a hold of your vet, you can say "I'm just more comfortable starting with 1 unit and working up. Do you think we can do that?" After all, you are the one treating the cat, at home with the cat and who would have to deal with any adverse situation that might happen if the dose is too high. For the vet to say "it wouldn't affect him" is, I suspect, an attempt to keep you from being too anxious but any amount of insulin could affect him. It just depends. The only way you are going to know though is by testing. I hope you feel up to trying that! It may seem overwhelming at first, but it's one sure way to make you feel more comfortable and less anxious.

Thank you so much for you advice. The vet seemed really confident in this dosage, which had me really confident until I came here.. LOL. I asked him what signs I should watch for and he said nothing, at this low dosage there is no chance of him going hypoglycemic or anything, and that there was nothing to watch for. I'm not trying to discredit him - he has always been bang on in treating my cats, so I'm just really confused now, reading all of this.
 
shellbell said:
Karen & Pearl said:
Lantus is u100. How a cat responds is going to be different depending on the cat, but there are problems with starting with that high a dose in that 1) you are possibly going right past what your cats optimal dose and cause various problems as earlier stated and 1) some cats are super sensitive and may respond right away with a big drop. We've seen that with a couple of cats on lantus. I'm wondering how your vet decided on that particular dose. If your kitty is a dry food eater, I'd guess he may end up on a higher dose, but in general, the lantus protocol is to start at 1 unit twice a day. Now, here is the thing, you really need to test a cats blood with a meter (any human glucometer with sipping strips will work) to know what is going on. The insulins lantus and levemir *tend* to gradually bring a cat's numbers down, but most of us who have used it have seen improvements pretty quickly, even if the numbers haven't come down yet. Most people increase that dose very slowly, as close to .25 units as you can eyeball.

You are probably feeling really overwhelmed right now, but that is normal. If you can get a hold of your vet, you can say "I'm just more comfortable starting with 1 unit and working up. Do you think we can do that?" After all, you are the one treating the cat, at home with the cat and who would have to deal with any adverse situation that might happen if the dose is too high. For the vet to say "it wouldn't affect him" is, I suspect, an attempt to keep you from being too anxious but any amount of insulin could affect him. It just depends. The only way you are going to know though is by testing. I hope you feel up to trying that! It may seem overwhelming at first, but it's one sure way to make you feel more comfortable and less anxious.

Thank you so much for you advice. The vet seemed really confident in this dosage, which had me really confident until I came here.. LOL. I asked him what signs I should watch for and he said nothing, at this low dosage there is no chance of him going hypoglycemic or anything, and that there was nothing to watch for. I'm not trying to discredit him - he has always been bang on in treating my cats, so I'm just really confused now, reading all of this.

Oo. Well, I'm sure that he means well - means to soothe you, but it's just a bad idea to say there is "no chance". He *did* at least explain to you what hypoglycemia might look like and how to treat it, yes? I'm sure chances are that no, it wouldn't provoke it, but it's always *possible*.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
Okay, now that you are not so freaked out, I am going to nag you about hometesting again. (I'm a mother, I nag....) If you want, you can post your city and state. Maybe we have someone who lives nearby and could come help you out the first time.

Im in British Columbia Canada.. I think I'm on my own.. LOL
 
Hi there, if ur in Canada u can pick up syringes at any Walmart or pharmacy like Shoppers Drug Mart.

You'll want to get 3/10cc's 1/2 unit markings 31 gauge approximately
go to a pharmacy and ask for them...BD is one brand that most use here.
The packaging is a light purple/pink colour, 10 in a bag. Approximately $4

You're not on ur own, we have some members in BC as a matter of fact!
 
Cindy + Mousie said:
hi and welcome.

he didn't develop diabetes overnight and you can't cure it with one shot so take a deep breath, get your wits about you and yes, lets get you some lantus people before you give that shot ok. you don't have to jump in guns a blazing and worry about that shot getting done right away. you can take a little bit and talk to some people here and do some reading if you'd like so you feel more comfortable with all this ok. breathe :smile:


I think I'm going to wait, and not give him his first shot tonight. I really need to know more about this stuff.. and I dont' want to mess him up ~ he is my best friend and I want this to be as smooth as possible for him.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
I don't want to freak you out. But I am concerned. You gave the insulin, right? Did you copy off the hypo info that Pam gave you? Do that and watch him for any unusual signs - like odd noises, or sleepiness or extreme hunger. There are a list of the symptoms on Pam's list.

If I were you, I would go get a glucometer. (Or do you have a diabetic friend who might let you borrow theirs?0 Walmart sells a good cheap one called ReliOn. We can take you through the steps. If you have blood glucose numbers tonight, you can see what the insulin is doing. If he goes too low, you will have ways to counteract it.

Your vet felt 3 units was okay. I don't think he will change his mind tonight. It's going to be up to you to keep him safe. We do know about insulin and diabetic cats and we can help you. Lots of people are on line and have experience.

Relion is not available in Canada...ur best bet is the ONE TOUCH MINI meter, when u buy a meter, u usually get the strips with it,,however ur really only paying for the strips which are about $75 - $80 for a box of 100
 
Sue and Oliver said:
I don't know. We have quite a few people in Canada. Let me go looking. Where exactly? I know we have a couple people in Vancouver.


Victoria is over in BC she might be around the board tonight
 
Karen & Pearl said:
Oo. Well, I'm sure that he means well - means to soothe you, but it's just a bad idea to say there is "no chance". He *did* at least explain to you what hypoglycemia might look like and how to treat it, yes? I'm sure chances are that no, it wouldn't provoke it, but it's always *possible*.


Honestly, he told me I don't have to worry about it until after the 10 day followup when he dosage is regulated...
 
ceil99 said:
Tell us about Jersey

How old is he? she?

What kind of cat?

When did you get him? her?


Jersey is my dogcat... LOL. He is just like a dog. Comes when he is called, and is all over me, all the time. My other cat is a typical cat ~ everything on her terms.. but not my Jersey... haha.

I'm not sure of his age, he literally followed me home 11ish years ago, and at that time the vet thought he might be around 3 but couldn't be certain. I don't even know what type he is other than black and white LOL
 
Another person in BC is Blackie; look for Team Blackie - they are in Coquitlam.
In your profile, you can put your whereabouts in Location.

I am thinking that if your vet said 3u is just fine as a starting dose for Jersey, I would be concerned. That dose is too high to start, but I am sure others have already mentioned why it's too high.

For sure you need to be home testing so that you know your Jersey's BG before giving the shot.

Your vet said Jersey will be regulated in 10 days? I must be missing something because nobody can predict when a kitty will be regulated. My shadoe has been on Lantus for awhile and is nowhere near being regulated.

With the food, get rid of the dry food right away as it is not good for kitty's numbers. Just by taking the dry food away from Jersey you will see better numbers. The method used to treat food to dry it is bad.
 
sorry.. regulated was the wrong word. He has to go in for 24 hours and get monitored regularly to watch his levels.. I'm all over the board here... ugh..LOL
 
Just to add to Gayle's info - do not change from dry to wet if giving insulin without hometesting. Wet lo carb food can really bring down bg levels fast, and you would need to be hometesting to know that you should alter dosage.

Hey, we don't expect you to learn everything the first night. We give you a day or two..... :mrgreen:

Another plug for hometesting. You won't need to take Jersey in for a day to have the vet check his levels. You will already have a spreadsheet with your numbers. Saves money and keeps the kitty happy.
 
And to add to me LOL when I first got Shadoe's dx, I was like UGH! Too much info! I can't get it all straight!

Yeah, you can; just take it slow because it's not a race so postponing that first shot till you are ready and able to test before and have read all the stickies with info about Lantus, is OK.

I have to tell you that the vial you got, that big huge hulking 10ml vial will lose its punch way before you get halfway through it. Those big vials are for humans who consume more insulin I believe. Nobody had told me that the life expectancy for that vial or any other cartridge of Lantus is about 28 days. After that point, it is doing nothing. How do I know this? Because it happened to me.

I was using this big vial for Shadoe's shots and then her numbers stopped progressing. People asked me how old my vial was and I had gone way past that 28days, so to be sure, I went to Shoppers Drugmart (I am in Toronto) and got a package of 5 cartridges - each of them are 3ml so the other 4 cartridges are fine being kept unopened in the frig, and only that 3ml cartridge that I am using will be good for 28 days or so.
Anyways, the very first shot I gave Shadoe from that new cartridge lowered her numbers, so I confirmed that my big 10ml vial had expired or rather stopped working.

Take your time, get your spreadsheet all set up, read all the stickies on Lantus, have caro syrup and everything needed on hand in case Jersey goes too low, and have your meter for hometesting handy with lots of strips.

And Sue is right about the switch from dry to wet; you could see a huge improvement just from cutting out all the carbs from Jersey's diet.
Again, I know firsthand that the dry makes a big difference because I have another cat who eats only dry food. Early one, Shadoe got some of the dry food and her numbers shot way high. That's when I was forced to cover up all the dry food when I was away and it made a big difference in Shadoe's numbers.
 
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