My diabetic kitty has the vet stumped!

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Hi everybody,

I just checked Casey's levels this a.m., pre-feeding, they're 374. I gave her her 4 units of insulin, a can of Fancy Feast classic (beef flavor) with her Lactulose mixed in, and a little very-watered-down Catsip. I'll take her levels again mid-morning and see where we are.

I'm starting to suspect the dry food, although switching both cats to all-wet will be a problem. My other kitty, Kennedy, does NOT like wet food - he won't eat any type, just sniffs at it and walks away.

Casey on the other hand, LOVES the stuff. So my fear is what will happen is: I'll take away the dry, put down wet. Kennedy will ignore the wet, Casey will eat her bowl, then go over and scarf down Kennedy's portion, and she'll get too much food and Kennedy will go hungry.

Short of standing by Kennedy's bowl and shooing Casey away basically all day, I'm not sure how to solve that problem. Kennedy isn't diabetic, he's a slender little kitty without any known issues. Anybody have any suggestions? The other option is to put Casey and Kennedy both on the special low-carb cat food from the vet's office. Not sure how that will affect her constipation, though.

ETA: OK, took her BG at 9:45 (+2) and it was 324. If it was accurate, that's the first time her BG has actually gone DOWN during the day since I started this thing! I'll take it again around 1 p.m. and see where we're at...
 
OK, very discouraged.

I just tried for more than half an hour to get another reading on Casey. For some reason, I don't know why, I just couldn't get any blood. I tried 2 different lancers and went through 4 lancets and 4 test strips (a little blood, but not enough to get a reading).

I must have pricked the poor kitty's ears 25 times. I warmed them up, tried to hit a vein, nothing. No matter what I tried I just couldn't get a drop of blood big enough to get a reading. Now her ears are all red from all the stabbing and I feel awful. I don't know whether to try again before I leave to run errands or just skip her reading because I'm afraid she'll come to dread getting her ears pricked and I won't be able to get enough blood to get a reading again. :cry:
 
ohiogal said:
OK, very discouraged.

I just tried for more than half an hour to get another reading on Casey. For some reason, I don't know why, I just couldn't get any blood. I tried 2 different lancers and went through 4 lancets and 4 test strips (a little blood, but not enough to get a reading).

I must have pricked the poor kitty's ears 25 times. I warmed them up, tried to hit a vein, nothing. No matter what I tried I just couldn't get a drop of blood big enough to get a reading. Now her ears are all red from all the stabbing and I feel awful. I don't know whether to try again before I leave to run errands or just skip her reading because I'm afraid she'll come to dread getting her ears pricked and I won't be able to get enough blood to get a reading again. :cry:
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Breathe, it's ok! Don't be discouraged. I remember becoming the woman who could not get blood the first time I tried to do a curve, despite the fact that I had been doing fine for a whole week. Even six years in, there were days when suddenly I couldn't get a good bead of blood! I would look at Pearl and say "Where did the blood all go?". Take a break. Have a cuppa. Try again later. Try to just get kind of zen about it. I know when this happened to me, even with warming, I actually wasn't holding the warming bag on the ear quite long enough. So try a few more seconds warming.

Reading through this thread, I would say that the lactulose and cat milk may be adding to your havoc. I know the importance of lactulose as my civilian cat is a chronic constipation kitty and without it, she gets really stopped up quickly. Pearl seemed to have trouble occasionally but for her, I would mix some fiber into her wet food. Most people I know use miralax for this, but since I have IBS trouble, I have some of that Heather's Acacia soluble fiber on hand and would use that. I suspect you might do ok with miralax. Talk to your vet about it. That mixed with the wet food might do just as well. I would try to reserve that cat milk (since she must like it) as an emergency treat for if she ever goes low. Try a new treat like freeze dried meat. Try chicken from Halo or something like that. Most cats are nuts for it. If you have a petsmart, they usually have some freeze dried salmon in the cat treat area that is nice and crumbly (My cats, at least, always liked the crumbly kind, not the jerky kind you see). You might have to order Halo on line.

Anyhow, don't get discouraged. This is a process. I named Pearl's blog Pearl the Diabetic Cat: A Journey of Patience for a reason! It's all about the journey, the process.
 
P.S. She won't come to dread ear pricks from one bad day. Especially if you give her a low carb treat (also thought of just some deli turkey or hame, that is a good treat too) or a play session if she likes that kind of thing, when you are done.
 
Thanks, everybody, I feel better!:-)

I FINALLY got a reading! It's 262. Should I be concerned? It's never dropped like this before, it's always gone UP. Now she's gone from 374 to 324 (+2) to 262 (+7).

I'll try to take another reading before I feed her tonight. I think I need to buy a case of test strips! And a case of tequila.
 
ohiogal said:
Thanks, everybody, I feel better!:-)

I FINALLY got a reading! It's 262. Should I be concerned? It's never dropped like this before, it's always gone UP. Now she's gone from 374 to 324 (+2) to 262 (+7).

I'll try to take another reading before I feed her tonight. I think I need to buy a case of test strips! And a case of tequila.
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Don't forget the chocolate!
 
Maggies Mom Debby said:
ohiogal said:
Thanks, everybody, I feel better!:-)

I FINALLY got a reading! It's 262. Should I be concerned? It's never dropped like this before, it's always gone UP. Now she's gone from 374 to 324 (+2) to 262 (+7).

I'll try to take another reading before I feed her tonight. I think I need to buy a case of test strips! And a case of tequila.
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Don't forget the chocolate!
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Oh, don't worry, I've already got the chocolate!! :-D My family knows I'm a Lindt addict and I have tons left over from Christmas. But thanks for the suggestion! Maybe I'll go get MORE chocolate...

Krogers has Fancy Feast on sale, so I picked up a bunch of that, plus some plain yogurt to see if I can switch that out for the Catsip. Is yogurt OK to give her? It's Dannon Plain...
 
Getting a 262 (a lower number) is what you want! Things are starting to work.

In the beginning everyone has trouble getting blood. You're doing really well! I haven't done this in a while myself. I'm sure I'd feel the same way. It takes time....just keep doing what you're doing.

About the yogurt - I need to go back and see why you need to give her this stuff. There is a strong possibility that there is sugar in it.

See why you need CHEAP test strips??? :lol:
 
Traci and Boomer said:
About the yogurt - I need to go back and see why you need to give her this stuff. There is a strong possibility that there is sugar in it.
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I'm looking for an alternative to the Catsip. Casey loves dairy and I'm trying to keep her happy. :-D

ETA: I took Casey's BG again at 7:15 p.m., before I fed her and gave her her shot. It came out "HI" (500+). I'll check it one more time before I go to bed tonight. I'm going to guess based on the numbers that she bottomed out in the 260's today.

ETA One more poke! At approx. 10:15 (+3), it's still "HI". Hm, maybe the yogurt wasn't such a good idea...

Oh well! We'll see what it is tomorrow morning. The Catsip might be the culprit, and if it is, I'm going to have to find a non-sugary dairy type liquid treat to give Casey to keep her hydrated and happy. Anyone have any suggestions?
 
ohiogal said:
Traci and Boomer said:
About the yogurt - I need to go back and see why you need to give her this stuff. There is a strong possibility that there is sugar in it.
Click to expand...

I'm looking for an alternative to the Catsip. Casey loves dairy and I'm trying to keep her happy. :-D

ETA: I took Casey's BG again at 7:15 p.m., before I fed her and gave her her shot. It came out "HI" (500+). I'll check it one more time before I go to bed tonight. I'm going to guess based on the numbers that she bottomed out in the 260's today.

ETA One more poke! At approx. 10:15 (+3), it's still "HI". Hm, maybe the yogurt wasn't such a good idea...

Oh well! We'll see what it is tomorrow morning. The Catsip might be the culprit, and if it is, I'm going to have to find a non-sugary dairy type liquid treat to give Casey to keep her hydrated and happy. Anyone have any suggestions?
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Catsip is basically lactose free lowfat milk. It's just as carby as regular milk.

Many people wrongly believe that lactose-free milk contains less carbohydrates compared to regular lactose-containing milk. The only difference between lactose-free milk and lactose-containing milk is that the lactose molecule is broken down into glucose and galactose in the lactose-free milk. The total carbohydrate content per serving of lactose-free milk is exactly the same as found in lactose-containing milk, but it is simply easier to digest and absorb for people with lactose intolerance that do not have enough of the enzyme lactase in their digestive tract. Lactose-free milk can therefore affect your blood sugar levels to the same extend as lactose-containing milk.

(THat's for humans but it would apply to cats too)

Other cat milks have even more carbs with other sugars added. Wouldn't she love a nice piece of turkey just as much?
 
Karen & Pearl said:
Other cat milks have even more carbs with other sugars added. Wouldn't she love a nice piece of turkey just as much?
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I'll have to try it - I think she'd love both!! She was meowing for her Catsip the other day, and I tossed a piece of beef jerky down for her. She just looked at it, looked at me like, "What the heck is that @#$#@? I want my Catsip, darn it!" and went back to meowing.

I took her BG this morning before her breakfast and shot, and it was 474. She'll probably be losing her Catsip whether she likes it or not! Maybe if I give her enough deli meat she'll grow to not miss it.

Thanks for the advice, everybody!
 
Regarding the yogurt --- PLAIN yogurt is fine - no sugar added. Start with a small amount squished up with water -- or Catsip -- and gradually phase out the Catsip.

If you get Vanilla or flavored yogurt -- full of sugar.


Many people here get timed feeders that open after X hours -- some with multiple compartments.

I'm lucky in that all my cats are grazers -- I leave out low carb canned food all day and night and they just nibble as they need to.
 
Phoebe_Tiggy_NortonGA said:
I'm lucky in that all my cats are grazers -- I leave out low carb canned food all day and night and they just nibble as they need to.
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I wish I could do that! I tried giving both Casey and Kennedy the same amount of wet food tonight. Kennedy picked at his, but Casey wolfed hers down and then went over and tried to push Kennedy out of the way so she could eat his share too!! I put her in the bathroom so Kennedy could eat in peace.

BUT, at least Kennedy seems open to the idea of an all-wet diet. Question: Kennedy is 8 pounds, Casey 9.5. How many cans of kitty food should they get a day? The can says 1 can per 3.5 lbs. of cat per day, but dang, that's a can each, for each meal! That seems like a lot of food...
 
On average a 8-10 pound cat will eat about one 5.5oz can per day. I have 13 cats ranging in size from 8lbs to 17lbs, although most seem to weigh in at right around 12-14lbs. With 13 I maintain everyone's weight on either 16 (5.5oz) cans or 8 (13oz) cans of Friskies. The recommendations on the side of the can is based on a young unaltered (not spayed or neutered) active adult cat. Kittens need more and seniors and fixed cats need less. It also depends on what type of food you are feeding, but the general rule of thumb is between 15 to 20 calories per pound of ideal weight for the cat. Luckily Janet and Binky's list gives you the breakdown of how many calories there is in a can of your choosen food.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
ohiogal said:
Phoebe_Tiggy_NortonGA said:
I'm lucky in that all my cats are grazers -- I leave out low carb canned food all day and night and they just nibble as they need to.
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I wish I could do that! I tried giving both Casey and Kennedy the same amount of wet food tonight. Kennedy picked at his, but Casey wolfed hers down and then went over and tried to push Kennedy out of the way so she could eat his share too!! I put her in the bathroom so Kennedy could eat in peace.

BUT, at least Kennedy seems open to the idea of an all-wet diet. Question: Kennedy is 8 pounds, Casey 9.5. How many cans of kitty food should they get a day? The can says 1 can per 3.5 lbs. of cat per day, but dang, that's a can each, for each meal! That seems like a lot of food...
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Mmm. I would say Pearl was doing about 1.5 3 oz cans a day. My civie Sugar eats less and Pearl also snacked on anything Sugar left. I think it depends on the cat and activity level. Also, diabetics who are not yet controlled should be allowed what the want (pretty much. With in reason. If they totally gorge that can lead to some bad things, but if genuinely hungry, feed.) IME, cans seem to really overestimate the amount of food a cat will eat!
 
I know Casey loves her Catsip, but I would try eliminating it for 5-7 days as an experiment. If her numbers even out a bit, you can probably safely say it was the Catsip. If Casey's numbers stay the same, you know it doesn't effect her bg.

And if that's the case, check with the vet for a substitute for the Lactulose.

I suggest this because we gave Maggie Cosequin for arthritis. We were assured both by our vet and members here it wouldn't have any effect on her numbers. But her numbers went up 100 points. We stopped it and they came back down. You have to remember ECID (every cat is different).
 
Maggies Mom Debby said:
I know Casey loves her Catsip, but I would try eliminating it for 5-7 days as an experiment. If her numbers even out a bit, you can probably safely say it was the Catsip. If Casey's numbers stay the same, you know it doesn't effect her bg.
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Thanks for the advice, Debby! I appreciate it. :-)

Do y'all think chicken broth would be an acceptable substitute for the Catsip? I don't think they make a milk substitute that doesn't have any sugar in it, but cats can't taste sweet anyway so I'm not even sure why Casey likes it! But I'm thinking she might go for chicken broth since cats like chicken. So maybe I can give her that instead?
 
Just want to make sure that the chicken broth doesn't have any spices in it, since things like garlic and onion are toxic to cats. If you are going to use chicken broth I would make my own from just plain boiled chicken I wouldn't use the pre-packaged stuff since you don't know what spices are added or salt content . You could also use just the water off water packed tuna..most cats love that.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Just want to make sure that the chicken broth doesn't have any spices in it, since things like garlic and onion are toxic to cats. If you are going to use chicken broth I would make my own from just plain boiled chicken I wouldn't use the pre-packaged stuff since you don't know what spices are added or salt content . You could also use just the water off water packed tuna..most cats love that.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
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Wow, garlic and onion are toxic to cats? I didn't know that.

Here are the ingredients of the can of broth I bought: chicken stock, contains less than 2% of: salt, flavoring, yeast extract, carrot juice concentrate, celery juice concentrate, onion juice concentrate.

Does the onion juice concentrate make it unsafe? If it does I'll just use it to make some chicken oregano...:-)
 
onion and garlic can cause issues like anemia, but I would think that it would depend in what amounts ...plus I knew someone who fed her cat garlic and it actually seemed to help. I do not recommend it, just saying.
 
Well, for what it's worth, when I gave Casey her shot at 7:30 p.m. her BG was 500+. I took it again just a little while ago (+3.5) and it's down to 331! Yay! I'll replace her Catsip with a small amount of the broth and see if it helps her BG...

ETA: Tested her again this morning before I gave her her shot, and she was at 372. Not great, but better than 500+! I'll keep y'all updated. :-D
 
I know how you feel about the milk thing, Scooter used to be a cream addict... his ex-owners told me "He NEEDS his cream EVERY morning at THIS time" and I was like uh no he doesn't. So we just stopped cold turkey. Yeah he howled at the fridge every morning for like a week and then he stopped and I can't remember the last time he did it. She'll survive without it. :razz: It's for her own good!
 
Ry & Scooter said:
I know how you feel about the milk thing, Scooter used to be a cream addict... his ex-owners told me "He NEEDS his cream EVERY morning at THIS time" and I was like uh no he doesn't. So we just stopped cold turkey. Yeah he howled at the fridge every morning for like a week and then he stopped and I can't remember the last time he did it. She'll survive without it. :razz: It's for her own good!
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Oh, I know - I'm curious to see what her numbers are tonight, since she's been without her Catsip fix all day! She's getting wise to the chicken broth though. I wonder if nondairy coffee creamer would be an acceptable substitute? We have some here at the office and according to the label it's got like 1 gram of carbs and <1 gram of sugar per 2 tbsp. serving. The low fat stuff doesn't have any carbs or sugar at all. Hm...
 
how much sugar is in milk vs catsip? Honestly, I don't know how much the catsip or milk would spike her blood glucose levels, so maybe look into a comparison of the two and consider reducing volume, not total withdrawal. We all need a treat now and then...
 
Karen & Pearl said:
Catsip is basically lactose free lowfat milk. It's just as carby as regular milk.

Many people wrongly believe that lactose-free milk contains less carbohydrates compared to regular lactose-containing milk. The only difference between lactose-free milk and lactose-containing milk is that the lactose molecule is broken down into glucose and galactose in the lactose-free milk. The total carbohydrate content per serving of lactose-free milk is exactly the same as found in lactose-containing milk, but it is simply easier to digest and absorb for people with lactose intolerance that do not have enough of the enzyme lactase in their digestive tract. Lactose-free milk can therefore affect your blood sugar levels to the same extend as lactose-containing milk.

(THat's for humans but it would apply to cats too)

Other cat milks have even more carbs with other sugars added. Wouldn't she love a nice piece of turkey just as much?
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Quote earlier in the thread.
 
:lol:
I feel like Casey is trying to quit smoking or something and we're all trying to figure out what she can have instead. I bet if you find a good substitute that she loves too that she'll be fine. My cats are both NUTS over deli turkey. They prefer that over everything.
 
Traci and Boomer said:
:lol:
I feel like Casey is trying to quit smoking or something and we're all trying to figure out what she can have instead. I bet if you find a good substitute that she loves too that she'll be fine. My cats are both NUTS over deli turkey. They prefer that over everything.
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:-D Casey has a Catsip monkey on her back.

Casey does love any kind of meat, like deli turkey or chicken or anything. I'm just trying to figure out something to "supplement" it in a beverage way, because the Catsip kept her hydrated. Coffee creamer doesn't have any sugar in it, and only a very tiny amount of carbs - less than milk, which has 12 g. of sugar per cup.

I just took Casey's BG a little while ago (+9) and it was 500+. :-( Oh well!

Say, I'm going to be out of the apartment tonight after about 6:15. I gave Casey her shot at 7:00 this morning. Is it OK if I give to her a little early? If I don't do it early I can't do it until about 9:15...?
 
ohiogal said:
Traci and Boomer said:
Casey does love any kind of meat, like deli turkey or chicken or anything. I'm just trying to figure out something to "supplement" it in a beverage way, because the Catsip kept her hydrated. Coffee creamer doesn't have any sugar in it, and only a very tiny amount of carbs - less than milk, which has 12 g. of sugar per cup.
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Whatever you find to substitute, it can't have any artificial sweetners, like aspertine. I think they are all toxic to cats.
 
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