my diabetic cat registered High on glucometer

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You know, I'm thinking some of these high numbers could be due to something as simple as stress. If you put yourself in her place....new home, new kitties, new bean. She's in a much better place and obviously in a loving environment, but she's got to be as confused as heck.

Please remember, all we try to do is make suggestions. None of us are "experts". We just try to brainstorm ideas based on our own experiences and from the experiences we've witnessed here since we joined the board. This disease can be extremely overwhelming, confusing, and frustrating. All you can do is try to take it all in, but when it comes down to it, you need to do what your gut tells you is right. No matter what, the amazing people here are "here for you".

Don't let this drive you mad. We all understand that feeling completely.

Hugs,
Carl
 
okay, tiffy was panting before. I ordered vet solution renal k, which replaces potassium, but I needed a quick fix. I added 1/16 of salt to a syringe with water and gave her half. I ran, and I mean ran to health store and bought in pill form with no sugars, etc, potassium, in pill form, and I ground it up and mixed in with like 2 tablespoons of evo with more water, and I fed her it at plus 6, which she was high, 468. Not good, but she has been suffering
I AM GOING TO TAKE BOB AND DEB'S ADVICE BY WEDNES WHICH WILL BE 9 DAYS THAT SHE WILL BE ON 1 AND 1/2 OF PROZINC. I TRUST YOU GUYS BUT ALL SHE'S BEEN GOING THRU IS CHANGING OF INSULIN AND SHE WAS DOING GREAT ON 1 AND 1/2 UNTIL THE FOOD CHANGE IN A SUDDEN SWEEP THAT IS WHEN ALL GOT SCREWED UP. SO I AM HOPING THE POTASSIUM WILL HELP HER.
 
I'm trying to catch up....
You said she was panting. That can indicate she's in pain of some sort. Does she seem to be in some kind of distress pain-wise?
The potassium pills you bought. Can you tell us more, in terms of "dosage"? How many mg's or whatever was the tablet your crushed up?

At +6 she was at 468? You gave 1.5u this morning? What was her BG at shot time?
 
D*mn board ate my original post during site transfer.

Lets first check that dehydration exists with 2 common clinical assessments
- moderate to severe dehydration:
Gently pull up the scruff and release. Does it snap right back down or remain pulled up ("tented"). If tented, then you have moderate to severe dehydration
- mild dehydration or more
Press your finger firmly on the gums and release.
Do the gums pink right back up or stay pale? If they stay pale, you have mild dehydration or more.

If neither of these clinical signs are present, let the body handle the electrolyte balance. As Carl noted, providing supplements in the absence of a veterinarian's diagnosis of need risks your cat's life.

If you see positive signs of dehydration, I strongly encourage you to seek veterinary assistance.

From the Merck Veterinary Manual Online:
"Diarrhea

Diarrhea can result from numerous GI diseases and can also occur secondary to disease outside the GI tract. Primary causes of GI disease are numerous and include adverse reaction to food, infections (bacterial, parasitic, fungal, and viral), inflammatory bowel disease, neoplasia, and toxin- or drug-induced."

For right now, I would suggest focusing on 1 change at a time, and getting it stabilized before changing anything else. In this case, I would keep the food consistent in a manner that doesn't trigger diarrhea.

When we have a diabetic cat with other health conditions, we dose the insulin around the health condition.
 
I saved some of the posts in this thread before the site transfer wiped them out. Here they are:

Theresa said
At shot time she was 402, but I what I did due to throwing up and diarrhea was bg her and feed her (Suggested by Abbott labs), then I admin'd 1/2 hour later. Let me tell you something, Bob, though, I changed glucose strips and didn't have the right code in since Friday, so All reading from Friday to Sat are off. I noticed it Yesterday.
Also, I forgot to admin insulin a half hour later on Friday after feeding her and it wound up being at 9:00, 2 hours later. I am not used to doing it that way. So a mess.
Let me give you some numbers
6-15 9:00 pm at +2 (now I don't have the correct code in before, so) - 469
+3 - 369
6-16
5:50 am - 402 - fed
6:30 +.5 - admin'd 1 1/2
10:30 +4 - 380
1:00 - +6 428 ( 1/16 of salt in syringe of 24 mls and admin'd) Mixed 1 crushed 99 mg of potassium by Solgar in with about 2 tablespoons of evo 95 protein and 1 tablespoon of Wd
So far she is just okay. I ordered vet renal k from amazon. it is a feline potassium supplement and I think it is a wise choice. Will not arrive until Friday (2-5 days amazon.) it is potassium gluconate, as is this pill by solgar and it is the same dosage only it is powder.
I am afraid to BG her now.
She has been fighting with my cats, but my cats don't know how to fight and they run and she attacks and they Scream and press up against the wall. They are not striking back. I know unusual but they are so sweet and never encountered this. So I don't think she is hurt. I think she is dehydrated with the fast FOOD CHANGE. I was advised to take her off wd immediately. I should have resisted knowing that such a quick change would cause diarrhea. she has had diarrhea and vomiting on and off for a week. SHE HAS NOT THROWN UP SINCE YESTERDAY AT 630 AM. AND HER STOOL IS NOW HARD.

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Deb & Wink said
I don't think you want to wait until Wednesday to raise the dose to 2U. If she were my cat, I'd raise the dose tonight.

Your friend Martica is advising you to switch to the low carb food cold turkey. That does not work well for some cats. Tiffy is one of those cats that gets diarrhea and nausea and vomiting from too fast of a food switch, IMHO.

In an ideal world, Tiffy would love the new low carb food, have no digestive problems and we would be able to lower the dose. We are not there yet. It will take time.

In that case, we need to adjust the insulin dose up to compensate for that higher carb food for now.

p.s. I'll update Tiffy's SS with that data you just posted.

Theresa said
Deb, thanks for doing the sheet for me. I was able to finally pull it up. I have been worried about her all day and need to start work. 2 hours away from Insulin Time?????? help

Deb & Wink said
It also sounds to me with the fighting going on, that you need to go back and do the "introducing a new cat to your home" steps from the
beginning.

See my previous post. Increase to 2U please.

Theresa said
I will increase to 2 U's. I am waiting to hear back from Bob/Carl also with the Potassium supplement. I will be on all night. I am working reading starting now, so I will be here. I will tell you what her BG is in 2 hours. Please stay with me. I didn't like the Panting.

I had cut and pasted the comment from her friend martica asked for the link and wanted to know if the 31 gauge syringes were ok. Deleted the rest. Up to Martica to post here if she wants.

Deb & Wink said
BTW, 31 gauge needles are fine. Easier to bend them so just be careful.

Theresa said
Thanks Deb again. I am not sure she will like the email being posted. I asked her to post on here, and she wouldn't. Why? don't know. So maybe a good idea. I ketone'd her and she is negative. I will do another one tomorrow as the sample wasn't pure, it was dipped in the litter. Running out for Coffee and will be working all night, so I am available

Sorry, that was all I backed up for this post before the server change.
 
This is difficult. I just posted a whole update and it kicked me off.
Listen, I didn't get your update at that time. This is delayed.
At PMshot time +12 420. So I gave her another potassium with 1/2 WD and a little more than 1/2 Evo with water.
NOw, can you tell me if you got my update? The potassium is the same as Vet K. I just ordered Vet K off Amazon, but it won't be here for 5 days or so. A little background on Tiffy.
Tiffy was abandoned and has been dehydrated since the day I got her. She was on IV for approx. 5 weeks. She had an URI and relapsed into it a week after I got her home. Her hair was matted and gross, now coming back to life.
I did test her for dehydration. Her Scruff stuck together and and stood up. 3 hours after the salt and Potass pill, it subsided. Her Scruff is down flat now, and nicely flat, better than I've seen it in a long time. This might be something good. She even played stringy with me like a nut.
What I will do is see how she is tomorrow morning dehydration wise, if she is good, I won't give the Potassium pill.
I did boost her to 2 units via Bob/carl and Deb. I won't hurt her. She is basically high.
She had a bowel movement and it was hard. So let's hope she gets on a better track now.
I am segregating her for another 3-4 weeks and then will reintroduce her back to Darma and Abyss (my two utterly sweeter than sweet abbys.
I hope you get this update. I don't see my prev updates her. Blek
 
Yes, Theresa, I see this latest update.

Sorry, but the server is being moved today. Still ongoing and posts after 2 PM CDT will be lost. Don't know how long they will continue to be lost. Will keep my eyes on Announcements forum.

Expect to randomly get kicked off, posts to fail, posts to go missing, etc. until the move to the new server is complete. No announcement yet on when that will be complete.

Sounds like the dehydration is better. Try to get more fluids in her. A lot of us add extra water to the food, 1-2 tablespoons.
 
Yes, I do add water. Thanks for the update on server. I was wondering what was going on. I sent you sheets via email. I don't know if initially you got them all.
 
update on Tiffy: she was 420 at +12, so her pm shot, at +4, she is 316, so she only dropped about 100 pts in 4 hours. I did just up her insulin to 2 units. Let's give it a couple of days. :?
Deb is working with me to learn the spreadsheet you guys use and that will help, but I am sorry, I have worked all weekend, and then with what happened todoay, I freaked out and lost some hours, like 4 hours and it is delaying me learning the spreadsheet input.
 
It is OK to free feed her and that may keep her glucose from having a severe food related spike after eating discrete meals.

She cannot use all her food because she is not close to being regulated and needs as much as 50% more food, too.
 
Hi, Does anybody have any feedback on Her growling and hissing all of a sudden when injecting her. I inject at base of neck, scruff. I am thinking neuralgia due to diabetes. Now, since I admin'd the potassium last night 2 doses, her scruff is tighter and laid down on the neck whereas before, you can lift and it would stand. Do you think that is why?
I think I am going to inject while she is eating to avoid a conflict. She actually walked away when I had the needle in her. This cat lets me inject her without a problem. confused_cat
 
Deb will be keeping Tiffy's SS updated for now. I've offered to do this from the handwritten notes that Theresa scans and sends me in an email. I Told her I would do this because I want to see what is going on with Tiffy.

BJM, do you think that free feeding is a good idea with the Prozinc, even after the mid-point of the cycle has been passed? I know with other people, we have advised the food be pulled up after mid-cycle so the cat does not continue to spike up after the insulin has been used up.

So free feed, but pull up the food after mid-cycle was my thought.

Growling and hissing may be because she is feeling better and is more feisty. You can inject the insulin in other areas of her body, along the sides, belly, etc.
 

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Theresa, I got your handwritten notes via email last night. Exhausted and had to crash early. They are for 6/7 through 6/14.

Even though the numbers may be off for those days when you did not have the correct code in the meter for the test strip change, they are still useful so have entered them and will put a note in the remarks saying they may be off and why.
 
I don't think it Is that many days, Deb, I think I was off Friday morning, so June 14th or Thursday, the 13th, so, but anyway I messed up with forgetting to give her insulin with the feeding first - then admin insulin advice from Abbott, when she was vomiting. So she was way off.
So pls just note it at the 13th on thru Saturday the 15th in the am I discovered it.
 
And with regard to free feeding, I won't do after Nadir, or midpoint. But she spike today even with it being at +4. I don't like her the 400s so long. Will give you the numbers after pms.
 
Prozinc is a little more forgiving of the shot times. Ideally, it is best dosed on a 12/12 schedule. But there is flexibility in the shot time. I know you have to work long days sometimes.

I've made the notes on the SS. If you see anything wrong, that needs correction, let me know.

We put the actual shot time as the PMPS or AMPS test. That is why you will see some of those numbers that you took in the AM in the +11 column of the night before. Because you did not shoot until an hour or more later.

I know that Tiffy has been vomiting, and that is why you have delayed the shot sometimes. You want to make sure she is going to keep the food down.

If you are going to shoot more than about 30 minutes later than your pre-shot test, or forgot to give the shot, it is best to test again. Especially with the shot where you forgot and did not give the insulin until 2 hours later. There can be big changes in the BG numbers in 2 hours.
 
Re: super high reading for +4 Tiffy

hi deb, I did increase her dose as you suggested to 2 units. she is right now at 432 and I feel that is high and she has been high, but I think that is why I am getting panting. I can't get a ketone test, but will continue to try. she doesn't has that smell on her breath, and she has been actually fine, although I feel she is higher than usual. I made sure I got her insulin in her too.
this is what I just sent to you, deb.
Can anyone suggest something. it is going to be a long night. nailbite_smile
 
Hi, Tiffy's BG is 432 at +3.5. I admin'd 12 mls of water via syringe hoping it would bring down BG. I will do another 12 mls at 10:45. any suggestions nailbite_smile nailbite_smile
 
Theresa, you just have to hold fast on those high BG numbers for now. Yes the high numbers are scary but they are not as dangerous as the low numbers.

I get worried when the numbers drop below 50.

For now, be patient and we need to give this new dose of 2U Prozinc time to see how well it works.

Giving water will not lower the BG's. Only time will do that. What giving water will do is keep her hydrated. She is prone to dehydration so we want to make sure she does not get dehydrated again.

Check for ketones in the urine if you can and smell her breath for that nail polish remover smell. You said she did not have a funny smell to her breath earlier.

We have a saying here. "Better too high for a day than too low for a minute'.

How is she doing with the diarrhea today? The notes you sent me did not indicate any diarrhea today.
 
Tiffadilliac is 320 at 11:00 pm, +4.5. She dropped approx. 100 points with the admin of approx. 9 mls of water via syringe at 9:30 (my feeling is that water dilutes the glucose in the blood. At 11:00 I admin'd another 10 mls of water via syringe in an effort to drop her below 300 so she can be at rest and peaceful through the night. I will attempt to do another 9 mls after 11 news. I didn't pull Tiffadilliac so she can die in my hands. I pulled her so I can give her a better life and place to live in. Please know I love Tiffadilliac with all my heart. I believe she loves me so much, as much as a cat can love. She eye kisses me every night. Good night and peace to this board. you are helping me save this cat.
 
She dropped about 100 points after the passage of 1 hour.

What I am seeing is the insulin taking effect and bringing her numbers down. I do not think the water has anything to do with the lower BG numbers. It will not hurt to give her water as that will keep her hydrated.

It is very likely that Tiffy is bouncing higher off that 257 low she had this morning at +4.5. We have to be patient and give the bounce time to clear.

Her body is not used to those lower numbers and panics, Mr Liver panics and pumps out glycogen and counter regulatory hormones to bring the BG numbers higher to what her body has been accustomed to.

It is going to take time to stop her liver from panicking and get used to those lower numbers.

What is your favorite color?
 
It takes a while to get the diabetes under control. You have to be patient. I think Deb may have some patience pants for you - what color would you like?

You are working gradually towards an insulin dose that you can give safely every 12 hours, that does not go lower than 50 mg/dL at any time, and as much as possible, keeps the glucose level under the renal threshold. Dpending on the cat, and the data source cited, the renal thresholdis anywhere from 180 mg/dL to 280 mg/dL, and may affected by any underlying medical conditions such as renal disease.

If she is actually dehydrated, please talk with your vet about subcutaneous fluids. Oral syringing of water may be unable to keepup with what she needs. Please do not administer salts as that may make dehydration worse.

Lets check your shot technique:
Are you gently pulling up a tent of fur?
Is she eating when you shoot? That helps distract from the injection.
Are you sliding the needle into the triangular area that has been pulled up, with the needle bevel upwards?
Are you holding the syringe almost parallel with her body when you slide it in? If you point the syringe downward, you may inject into muscle which is more painful.
 
Hey, Deb, BJM. I am sure I hit muscle a few times. I am shooting her while she eats and I am picking up a tent and hold the needle on a angle though parrell with her body, in other words, not straight up and I am getting it in.
Now This Morning at about 5 she vomited just about a the diameter of a peach of clear fluid. I feel she does that when she is high or low. Now high, she throws up everything, poor baby, and gets diarrhea, I think that is what all the throwing up is, Deb. Diarrhea could be both that and the quick change. However she is almost weened off WD.
Now at 6:15 (+12) 243 (lowest I've seen her in all my time with her) Thanks Deb. I fed her 1 1/4 can of food 1/4 wd, 1 can evo with water
I gave her 2 units.
Now at 9:20 (+3) (before I left for work), she was 221. Okay. I feared hypo. Should I? I didn't want to leave her all day. So I left a half can of food, a sliver of wd and mostly Evo.
I got home early - 3:30 (+9) - 465 (not what I wanted to see). Should I not give her that afternoon food? I didn't feed her last night, and look at the figures. But I think she may have gone low, and that is what the throw up was about at 5:00? Any feedback on this? The food midday, the hypo?
6:30 (+12) 444, I fed her 1 1/2 can with water and fresh grilled chix, no oil just on forman's grill, just a little treat. Goobled it up. :lol:
Doing much better though. Deb, let me know if you want to do the learning thing this weekend. I sent you a note. My jobs cancelled and I can do it.
 
parallel, but you know what I mean, sorry about the spelling. I hate typing, I do it all day long. I hate writing, I write all day long. So bear with my style.
 
You are feeding low carb so you can feed as often you like. I free feed my cats and they graze all day to keep the blood stable. Sme people feed mini meals. It's up to you. Over time we might discover a better feeding pattern for you but for now I would feed at least twice a day... After each shot.
 
She doesn't seem dehydrated, her scruff isn't bad at all. The potassium helped. Maybe I will bring her to vet tomorrow just for a peace of mind check up. I think she has allergies, number 1. She sneezes consecutively. I think there is slight anxiety being in a new household with the other cats, even though they are good cats. Tiffy seems like she struggled out there and at times I see a scared cat. Oh, boy, I saw that tonight when she was in her cage and frantic trying to get out. I usually don't let her sleep out because she ninja attacks the other cats. but I just Bg'd her and let her out. She is resting, and she was panting again. Maybe anxiety. Look at the above note and please tell me what to do, if anything,
and I like Blue. the color blue, or purple. :sad:
 
I think a vet check is a good idea. If she has allergies or a respiratory infection, she may need treatment to help her breathing.

Note: if said treatment involves steroids, you adjust the insulin around that, even if it means taking the insulin dose higher.
 
She has been really High from midday yesterday. Not midday feeding her. Maybe Just water. The potassium brought her down.
6-18 +5.5 -390, that is high
6-19 - 3 am. threw up (I think I am right, when she is high, she throws up)
+12 630 admin 1 and 1/2 cans of food 1/4 wd and the rest evo with water - admin'd 2 units
+4.5 - 354, down 300 points.
I don't like these numbers. Why is my ninja so High.
I am not going to midday feed. Do you guys agree?
 
Would you PLEASE take your cat to the vet?

She may be vomiting due to any number of things and the more you delay, the worse she can get.
 
she was thoroughly check out. She was at the vet from 5-3 thru 5-15 and then 5-21 thru 5-28. He knows she throws up. It happened more recently with the sudden change in the food. I really think it is because she is high, and I am not an idiot. I have to other cats. It is the regulating the insulin that is the problem. I will bring her in for her monthly checkup, and I will do it earlier rather than later. Her insulin has been all over the place. That can do it. She started at 1 and then a week later 1 and 1/2 and then 2 and 2 and 1/2 and then 3. Then Martica said no, do 1 and I said I am not doing from 3 to 1. So I did 1 1/2. Now you guys said raise it. This all in 2 weeks. That can make me throw up and have diarrhea. Not to mention the spikes. If I bring her in, he is going to call you people amateur. And he is going to yell at me for taking her down from 3 to 1 1/2. Now while I think 3 is too much, I think there is a tweaking. So since she has been thoroughly checked out I am not fearing too much, but keeping in mind anything is possible because she was categorized as a "stray."
Please help with the dosing. I monitor her better than most.
 
another thing, all diabetic cats suffer dehydration, a fact. they need 10-20 mls per kg of body weight. Tiffy is well over that. I syringe her. And hit with potassium tabs which will prevent kidney failure or kidney diseasing from the diabetes. I will ask the vet about that. I will be seeing him by Monday. I want her to settle into the 2 units and get some days under her belt with 2 units My feeling is she needs at least 2 1/2, but time will tell. She does not have diarrhea and is adjusting to the Evo. However...
 
Theresa,

I got your new email with the latest SS numbers for Tiffy.

I do not have time to update her SS tonight. Will try for Thursday morning. I'm fried and need some sleep before my gang start their 5am wakeup calls. Then it proceeds to walking all over me and trampling on top of me.

I do think the dose for Tiffy could go up a bit. You have some room to drop from those 200's you are getting.. Need to look more at the SS and do the updates.

Let's stay at the 2U for tomorrow am, Maybe increase to 2.25U for pm dose. Not sure yet.
 
Hi Theresa,

Got Tiffy's SS updated for you this morning. I'm ready for your training session on Sunday at 6PM. Time to teach you how to update the SS yourself.

There are a couple of notes on the SS that concern me.

1. On 6/19 PM. You thought you did a fur shot. You guessed how much went into Tiffy and then gave an additional 1U. Please, Please, Please never do that again. There is no good way to tell how much insulin actually got into Tiffy with a suspected fur shot. Giving additional insulin when that happens, is not recommended because the 'guesstimate' can be way off and the BG's can drop too low, resulting in a hypo. Hypos can kill quickly if not managed with food and simple sugar. What if you had done this in the morning and then gone off to work? People have come home to find their cats dazed and confused, like the cat had seizures while they were away. We want to keep Tiffy safe because we know how much you love her.

I know you thought you were doing the right thing by giving more insulin but it could have resulted in a hypo. Yes, those high numbers are scary, but remember one of our sayings "Better too high for a day, than too low for a minute". High numbers do damage over the long term. They are not immediately as concerning as the low numbers which can kill quickly.

2. Giving water does not dilute the blood enough to bring down the BG numbers. Let me explain how the insulin works so you can understand why I say the lower BG's you are seeing and the water you are syringing are a coincidence.

You inject the insulin under the skin. The blood vessels in that area slowly absorb the insulin. You feed and the body starts to process the food, so you see a rise in the BG numbers, what we call a food spike in about 30 minutes to an hour. The insulin takes an hour or two to start taking affect to moderate the food intake and help to process the food and bring down the BG numbers. A little more time passes and the insulin has more of an effect. You see the BG numbers dropping. Maximum affect of the insulin is usually somewhere around the middle of the cycle, sometimes earlier, sometimes later. Cats on Prozinc often have an earlier nadir (low point, peak) for the first month or two and the insulin does not seem to last the full 12 hour cycle. After, the low point or nadir, the BG number starts to rise again as the insulin has been used up trying to process all that food. The numbers keep getting higher, and a bit higher still after the nadir is passed, at the end of the cycle.

Tiffy's body has also become used to those higher numbers as being the new normal. It takes time for the cells in the pancreas to heal and regenerate. It takes time for her body to become adjusted to those lower BG numbers and not panic. When her body 'sees' those low numbers in the 200's, it panics. Mr. Liver as we call him, panics and pumps out sugars and counter regulatory hormones to bring those BG's back into line with what the body has become adjusted to.

We call this steep rise a "bounce". She will bounce until she doesn't anymore. Cats can take up to 72 hours to clear the bounce. You have to be patient here and let things settle a bit.

Here is a definition of a "Bounce" written by someone else.

Here is definition of a bounce. Get used to them.. Most cats bounce for a while..

Bounces - what are they and is my cat doing them?
When a cat is first diagnosed, the blood glucose has probably been high for a while. As the insulin starts to take effect and numbers start to come down, the liver has to learn to adjust to the lower numbers. We call this "liver training school". But before it relearns that low numbers are ok, when the BG drops to a number lower than the liver is accustomed, or if BGs drop low, or if the BG drops suddenly, the liver ”panics” and reacts by releasing counter regulatory hormones and glucagon. This drives the BG back up. This is what we call a "bounce". Bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear so we are generally careful about increasing doses during the bounce. Once the bounce clears, then you can see the "real" numbers and determine if the dose needs to go up or down.

Feeding a large quantity of food after the insulin has been all used up will simply cause the BG's to rise higher.

I'd like to see you trying to spread out the food intake. Feeding all that food at one time can cause the BG numbers to be higher and more uneven. Spreading out the food into more mini-meals would help Tiffy.

What is Tiffy's weight right now and how much should she weigh? Do you have a bathroom scale you could step on, holding Tiffy then let her down and weigh only you. Subtract to get Tiffy's weight.

We may want to rethink how much food you are feeding her.

By the way, Are you syringing the water by mouth? or sub-Q?
 
Theresatramondo said:
she was thoroughly check out. She was at the vet from 5-3 thru 5-15 and then 5-21 thru 5-28. He knows she throws up. It happened more recently with the sudden change in the food. I really think it is because she is high, and I am not an idiot. I have to other cats. It is the regulating the insulin that is the problem. I will bring her in for her monthly checkup, and I will do it earlier rather than later. Her insulin has been all over the place. That can do it. She started at 1 and then a week later 1 and 1/2 and then 2 and 2 and 1/2 and then 3. Then Martica said no, do 1 and I said I am not doing from 3 to 1. So I did 1 1/2. Now you guys said raise it. This all in 2 weeks. That can make me throw up and have diarrhea. Not to mention the spikes. If I bring her in, he is going to call you people amateur. And he is going to yell at me for taking her down from 3 to 1 1/2. Now while I think 3 is too much, I think there is a tweaking. So since she has been thoroughly checked out I am not fearing too much, but keeping in mind anything is possible because she was categorized as a "stray."
Please help with the dosing. I monitor her better than most.

As non-vets, we have to be careful about doing things at home which might actually aggravate or initiate problems. When repeated efforts to deal with something like diarrhea or dehydration don't seem to be resolving, consulting with a vet is the responsible thing to do. The dehydration had me particularly concerned as it could lead to other problems which might result in the cat's death. Yes, I'm a bit paranoid about things - I've lost cats because I didn't go to the vet soon enough.
 
THIS SITE IS KILLING ME, I JUST POSTED AND IT ATE IT.
HERE I go again. this is important so read on.
I JUST GOT BACK FROM THE VET. She gained 2 and 1/2 pounds since I've had her in two weeks. That is good. She was severely underweight. I have also read your posts and will respond back to them in with the update.
The food was the biggest problem with the diarrhea and the vomiting. He suggested just keeping her on Wd and Evo until she can fully ween off. Now the further vomiting was -- he believes -- due to the raw medallions I was feeding her and raw kibble. Some cats don't do well with raw. Martica thought it would be a good afternoon meal because it is all protein, and she is right, but not for Tiffy. He wanted her pulled off of the raw. In fact, I gave her a medallion this morning and by 1 she was vomiting, and when I give her the kibble, she somehow vomits that up too. So No raw for Tiffy. He agrees with Deb, I can feed, but was before +5. Deb, I love you. YOu are right on. I think she is getting way too much food in the breakfast meal. And I believe that adds to her vomiting. She is like sucking down 2 cans all at once including the medallion. So I am going to do one can, and a very small midafternoon snack. Think about it when you eat too much. Now, she has gained a significant amount of weight in 2 weeks, so we are right on track and I can scale back safely. Now, I did just feed her, but she did throw up this morning, and it is late, but I will focus on that the rest of the time forward. Tiffy and I have had it rough with all the changes.
Hydrations: she is still mildly dehydrated, but most diabetics are. I am giving her enough water, and time will tell, but since she was throwing up so much and with the diarrhea, all the water I've been giving her is coming out.
POTASSIUM - Potassium in pill form is right on spot, and will save them from getting further dehydrated. YOu can never overdose them on oral potassium. It can only help. The fluid potassium is what needs monitoring. :-D
so that can help you with advice to others who have issues.

THE PANTING - CARL - IS NOT GOOD. HE DID SEVERAL TESTS. URINALYSIS, BLOODS. Thanks for the push, and BKJ (I think those are initials) Thanks for the Push. diabetic cats can develop heart issues and I need to monitor her tonight and tomorrow, and bring her back if it continues. He didn't like it. Neither did I.
Okay, so where are we? I'd appreciate your help in raising her insulin if need be.
let's see where we are next week.
Deb, thanks a trillion over.
Thanks BKJ??????
Thanks Carl.
She is getting better with the insulin, but the numbers are high, so please keep check and giving me feedback.
 
Glad you took her to the vet.

You'll see if the raw food was the culprit in a couple of days not giving it; let's hope its that easy!!!!

If some of the vomiting was scarf 'n' barf behavior, it can help to spread the food thinly across a large platter, freeze part of it to be nibbled as it thaws, or to use a timed feeder.

Glad to know the oral meds won't be absorbed if not needed; I needed a vet to confirm that, because messing up the electrolytes in the body can cause all kinds of potentially lethal problems.

We'll pray that the panting is nothing major, but if necessary, there are heart and blood pressure meds that may be given to help reduce the load on the heart. If the panting turns out to be allergy/asthma related, there are some specific meds for that too. You may wind up adjusting the insulin around treatments for other conditions. Thats OK.

(Its BJM)
 
So glad to hear you got to the vet with Tiffy and got some feedback from the vet. We know a lot of stuff but it's hard to know what is going on from a distance without seeing her. Glad you were able to take her in and get some questions answered.

The food was the biggest problem with the diarrhea and the vomiting. He suggested just keeping her on Wd and Evo until she can fully ween off. Now the further vomiting was -- he believes -- due to the raw medallions I was feeding her and raw kibble. Some cats don't do well with raw. Martica thought it would be a good afternoon meal because it is all protein, and she is right, but not for Tiffy. He wanted her pulled off of the raw. In fact, I gave her a medallion this morning and by 1 she was vomiting, and when I give her the kibble, she somehow vomits that up too. So No raw for Tiffy.
Sounds like a plan in place to change the food up a bit. No more raw for now. Only the little bit of W/d and the EVO. :smile:

He agrees with Deb, I can feed, but was before +5.
I wanted to clarify what your vet said about the +5. Was that no feeding food after +5? Is that correct? :?:

She gained 2 and 1/2 pounds since I've had her in two weeks. That is good. She was severely underweight.
Yeah on the weight gain. She is up to what now, about 8 - 8.5 pounds? :?: Much better than that undernourished poor condition 6 pounds she was earlier when you first got her.

All good news so far.

I think she is getting way too much food in the breakfast meal. And I believe that adds to her vomiting. She is like sucking down 2 cans all at once including the medallion. So I am going to do one can, and a very small midafternoon snack. Think about it when you eat too much.
What I was thinking on feeding Tiffy, was to split that morning meal into two portions also. :idea: Give one right after you have given her the AMPS test. Give her the insulin. Wait an hour or so, and then feed her some more, before you go to work. Would that work with your schedule? :?:

There is a balance we need to achieve between giving her enough food so she does not loose more weight, but not so much that she does not have enough insulin to process all that food.

Please tell me specifically which EVO Tiffy is eating :?: , I'll go find out the calorie content on that and try to come up with a food plan as to how much she should be eating. Did the vet say what her ideal weight was? :?:

Tiffy and I have had it rough with all the changes.
The first couple of weeks with a diabetic cat are the absolute hardest. It gets a little easier as time goes on and you learn more. You have been doing fantastic struggling with all her issues. Hang in there. We will get you and Tiffy to where you need to be.

Do you mix any water directly in with the food? :?: I do this with my cats, until it is like thick applesauce or a bit thinner. About 1-2 tablespoons mixed in with the wet food, say 1 T for each 2 ounces of food.

Good to know the oral potassium is ok. I know BJM ,our resident epidemiologist, was worried.

Okay, so where are we? I'd appreciate your help in raising her insulin if need be.
I think Tiffy is bouncing right now. I want to hold the dose but would love Carl and BJM to chime in here too. Maybe they see something I don't.

Still don't like that panting either. Keep an eye on her.
 
Oh, forgot to tell you, the triple and quadruple sneezing, which I thought was an allergy, is a relapse into the URI. He said she had a really serious shelter URI. So we had a 104 temperature too, and that may be why she is throwing up too, coupled with stress of the other cats, and all, poor little girly, We are back on antibiotics, now Erythro 1 ml in am for 6 days and then 1 ml every other day for 8 more days. that may be the panting, she can't breathe well. They released her without an URI. She came home with pills, and they finished, but she continued the 3 and 4 sneezes thru the whole course of antibiotics, and my other cats aren't sick. Wow. may I say that this is the four series of meds. let's hope the breathing is URI AND LETS hope they find the right antibiotic fast. She was in the shelter on Baytril, released to vet on iv antibiotics, home on antibiotics, back to vet 5 days on anti, home for 5 days on anti, now 2 weeks later again. This URL SUCKS. :shock:

deb, tiffy is 8 and 1/2 lbs. she is on evo 95 percent protein. the best one out there. let me know what you guys come up with. let me know if I forgot something, just hit me back, I am shot, going to feed them and take a jog which I need between all the puke and running to vet, pet stores, etc. pet burnout syndrome
 
I've heard from a rescue friend that some infections are becoming resistant and it is taking month long courses of antibiotics like azithromycin to clear them!

Keep in mind shelter animals are stressed, so the immune system is less effective then.
 
I know, plus the stress of my cats probably isn't helping either. My other cat may be coming down with it. I can't tell if she is just irritated or becoming ill.
 
They've all been exposed, so if you get the current weights for them, maybe your vet will not require you to bring in each one for a visit if sick.
 
8.5 pounds * 15 calories per pound = 127.5 calories + 70 calories = 197.5 Roughly 200 calories a day to maintain her weight.

Up to 50% extra for uncontrolled diabetes = 300 calories per day.

EVO 95% foods are all around 200 -218 calories a can

So roughly 1.5 cans per day of EVO to meet the 300 calories she needs.

Proposed feeding guide
1. AMPS 1/2 can
2. before you go to work 1/4 can
3. PMPS 1/2 can
4. before you go to bed 1/4 can
For a total of 1.5 cans, 8.25 ounces of food a day.

She probably won't like the reduction in food. Especially since she is getting anywhere from 2 to 4 cans of food a day now. Too much food can cause the numbers to be high also, because there is simply not enough insulin to process all that food.

Push back if you do not think this food plan will work and give me your ideas. Does she need to gain more weight? Did the vet say anything about that?
 
I think Tiffy is bouncing right now. I want to hold the dose but would love Carl and BJM to chime in here too. Maybe they see something I don't.

I don't see bouncing, Deb. To me, the last cycle that looks like it could possibly be a bounce is 6/17 AM. In my personal experience with Bob, he did bounce, but it took very little time to clear them. Like less than 2 cycles. But I didn't dose like most people either. I changed his dose nearly every shot. He was on a sliding scale the whole time he was on insulin.

Tiffy has all sorts of things going on that could be contributing to the high numbers. The infection for sure could be. Stress too. I'm not saying the dose needs to be increased however. Not sure on that.

There are a couple of things I am not sure of. If the vet said that oral potassium can't cause potassium levels to go too high, I'll have to accept that I suppose. I just don't understand "why". I gave potassium via sub-q fluids, and Bob had to be closely monitored to make sure his levels didn't go too high.

I also have not heard that "all diabetic cats are dehydrated" before either. And I can't say that I think that's right. Bob was at first, but he was also DKA at the time. Cats who eat canned food shouldn't be dehydrated unless there's something else going on besides just diabetes. Dry food I can understand, and that's why so many cats that eat dry also drink a lot out of the waterbowl. Bob is no longer "diabetic" (although he will always be one) in terms of numbers, and eats only canned food. He never drinks water. If I see him drinking out of the water bowl, it freaks me out actually. I might see that once a month maybe?

One word of caution. If you're going to cut back on food, you will most likely need to cut back on insulin at some point, so it will mean closely watching the numbers to see what sort of impact less food has.
 
Infection often raises glucose levels, so maybe the next round of antibiotics will help bring here down.

I note on your spreadsheet you believe you shot through the skin, so you gave another unit. We call this a fur shot. We advise you not shoot more insulin as there is no way to measure how much might have gone in and this could result in an overdose. She's been running high enough that you were OK; however if you were in more controlled numbers, that could be disastrous. Just keep that in mind for future reference.
 
Something happened weird with the glucometer tonight. I had to do 3 readings. I am going to send the sheets to Deb to update. But let me sum up.
pmps 6:30 +12 742, I felt that was really high, so I tested again and guess what I got
6:32 - 519, thought that was strange, so I tested with test substance and it was in range.
Now at the first test I started feeding her, it is all within 5 minutes bear in mind.
6:35 (third test) - 654? Any feedback on that one. When I called Abbott they said can be 70 to 80 points higher. He said take the last test. Freaky. I am uncomfortable with that.

Deb, She will freak out if I feed her half a can. And yes, she does need to put on like 2 more pounds. Tonight I gave a can and a quarter. I didn't feed midday though. I am emailing you the sheets in a few, check out these numbers. Hard to gauge due to the URI.

CARL: Oral Potassium is what you cant overdose on. Subcut you need to carefully monitor as you can easily overdose.

BJK (I hate initials;hard to remember) My vet feels Tiffy should be on at least 3 units, and thus if I hit her with 3 units it won't her (by reshooting her). How do you like that one? Although the tech doesn't like reshoots. I won't do it. It is just I am careful with her and can gauge. He thinks she is under insulin. His numbers were lower than mine too by the way, when she is in the hospital, but then again, she is on antibiotics and subcut there. She is in the 200 at the hospital on 2 and 1/2, but she started out at 1 and then I have to say somewhere it was off for it to go up.

Can you guys tell me the glucometer you use, I hear it is like 25 dollars? Can I order it online? I just want to see it.

Also, what do you guys do with the needles? do you throw them away. I have been saving them. Help

Tiffadil is doing better today with the URI. she still wants to attack my cats, so I keep her caged. I hate to do it, but no choice. I can't have that. She is really just territorial and is a street cat. Sweet, but nonetheless. She doesn't like them near me either. :cry:
 
Something happened weird with the glucometer tonight. I had to do 3 readings. I am going to send the sheets to Deb to update. But let me sum up.
pmps 6:30 +12 742, I felt that was really high, so I tested again and guess what I got
6:32 - 519, thought that was strange, so I tested with test substance and it was in range.
Now at the first test I started feeding her, it is all within 5 minutes bear in mind.
6:35 (third test) - 654? Any feedback on that one. When I called Abbott they said can be 70 to 80 points higher. He said take the last test. Freaky. I am uncomfortable with that.

Deb, She will freak out if I feed her half a can. And yes, she does need to put on like 2 more pounds. Tonight I gave a can and a quarter. I didn't feed midday though. I am emailing you the sheets in a few, check out these numbers. Hard to gauge due to the URI.

CARL: Oral Potassium is what you cant overdose on. Subcut you need to carefully monitor as you can easily overdose.

BJK (I hate initials;hard to remember) My vet feels Tiffy should be on at least 3 units, and thus if I hit her with 3 units it won't hurt her (by reshooting her). How do you like that one? Although the tech doesn't like reshoots. I won't do it anymore. It is just I am careful with her and can gauge. He thinks she is under insulin. His numbers were lower than mine too by the way, when she is in the hospital, but then again, she is on antibiotics and subcut there. She is in the 200 at the hospital on 2 and 1/2, but she started out at 1 and then I have to say somewhere it was off for it to go up.

Can you guys tell me the glucometer you use, I hear it is like 25 dollars? Can I order it online? I just want to see it.

Also, what do you guys do with the needles? do you throw them away. I have been saving them. Help

Tiffadil is doing better today with the URI. she still wants to attack my cats, so I keep her caged. I hate to do it, but no choice. I can't have that. She is really just territorial and is a street cat. Sweet, but nonetheless. She doesn't like them near me either. :cry:
 
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