My diabetic cat Miles

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David and Miles

David and Miles

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I found out about a month ago that my cat Miles has diabetes. He was testing at about 500.

Here's where I'm at today.
I've changed his food from Nutros dry to Wellness chicken wet (about 10 days ago).
He's currently on Humulin N 4 units twice a day
I'm testing his blood sugar and I'm getting better at it.
My most current readings were 12 hours after the last injection. His reading was about 450. 6 hours after the injection he was at 90. At this point I don't think I should up the dosage.
I'm going to pick up PZI insulin from my vet tonight and start using it right away.
I'm leaving on a 2 week vacation next week and my brother will be giving Miles his injections. I'm a little concerned about changing the insulin a week before we leave. My brother won't be checking blood sugars. I suspect that I'll have him keep the dosage on the low side to be safe.
Miles is exhibiting some neuropathy in his rear legs. He's still on his toes, but he's a little wobbly. I'm giving him vitamin B-12 (Methy.... sorry not sure of the spelling)

He's a great cat and so laid back. If this were my little grey cat, I don't think any of the shots or testing would be possible.

I'd appreciate any advice, suggestions, cautions or any advice someone has. I'm pretty worried about him.

Thanks .... Dave Champion
 
Hi Dave and welcome.

You're seeing a big drop on numbers on the Humulin because it's a harsh insulin and it causes big drops and big gains. It's called rebound. My Tucker was on a dose that high when first diagnosed. We quickly started hometesting like you did and realized that. After some research we switched to PZI Idexx, you may be picking up ProZinc tomorrow since PZI comes compounded now and is harder to get. After the switch Tucker was pretty well regulated, we switched to canned only and he went off insulin.

He did eventually go back on insulin, but he had many other illnesses going on. I just wanted to give you a quick history on him, I actually have several diabetic cats. One that I just adopted this weekend was getting 5 units of ProZinc twice daily. Since coming to my home on Saturday he has not needed even a drop of insulin. His diet was changed to canned and I believe he will stay off insulin because of the diet change. Same with my new girl Ebony, although she did take insulin for over a month and has been off for about 2 weeks.

If this were my cat, I'd ask the vet about Lantus (Glargine) and not ProZinc, I'd also start at a much lower dose especially if I were changing the diet like you are and going away. I'd probably start at 1U BID, depends on what numbers you get.

The leg problem, the neuropathy should go away with regulation, my Misty had it when adopted, but she got over it pretty quickly.

Very glad that you are hometesting and changing diet, but please drop the dose of Humulin immediately so you don't get a hypo and do check on Lantus insulin but if you get the PZI or ProZinc, still think about a much reduced dose.
 
Welcome Dave and Miles,

I think you will like ProZinc much better than Humulin. In most cats, it has a much milder effect with the lowest point in the cycle coming around 6 hours after the shot. Have you seen this document: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799 It has lots of good info on the way ProZinc works. I would also urge you to start on a lower dose - one unit twice daily is usually a good starting point. We also have a PZI forum on the site. You can read some of the threads to see how others are doing, and check out their doses/numbers on their spreadsheets: viewforum.php?f=24

It is fantastic that you are testing at home. I would plan on getting some numbers before you leave town so you can see how the insulin is working. You can tell your brother to come on the site using your sign in if he needs help.
 
I disagree about your rebound. It looks like a typical N curve with no evidence of rebound with the information provided.

tuckers mom said:
Hi Dave and welcome.

You're seeing a big drop on numbers on the Humulin because it's a harsh insulin and it causes big drops and big gains. It's called rebound. My Tucker was on a dose that high when first diagnosed. We quickly started hometesting like you did and realized that. After some research we switched to PZI Idexx, you may be picking up ProZinc tomorrow since PZI comes compounded now and is harder to get. After the switch Tucker was pretty well regulated, we switched to canned only and he went off insulin.
snip
Click to expand...
 
Just wanted to say hello and welcome. I'm sure you're already figuring out that you've come to the best place for help with your diabetic cat. I knew next to nothing at first and was overwhelmed and stressed. This forum and following the great advice/protocol really helped me turn Max's health around. Sounds like you are doing the right things, testing and diet. The biggest difference for Max was the diet change to low carb wet food. Glad to hear you are switching to a gentler insulin. Think you will see better #'s and "curve" with it. Like you've been hearing, start low on the dose, test, and go slow.
 
Dchampion said:
He's a great cat and so laid back. If this were my little grey cat, I don't think any of the shots or testing would be possible.
Click to expand...

You know. One of the first things I thought when Noxin got diagnosed was, "thank goodness it was him and not Miska". Noxin is nice and laid back, but Misha is teeth and nails when she is ticked off. :)
 
I agree that you need to reduce the dose when you switch insulins. Lantus, Levemir, PZI and ProZinc act differently than Humulin since they are long acting insulins. My recommendation is to start over at 1 unit, especially since your brother will not be testing. When you get back, test for a week and then do a curve. Then you will have enough data to determine if you need to increase the dose. If an increase is needed, only increase it by 1/2 unit and stay on that dose for at least a week. It takes a cats body at least a week to adjust to a new dose of insulin for you to be able to determine if that is the best dose.

When you find Miles optimal dose, you will start to see improvement in his neuropathy also. My cat Spot had severe neuropathy when I adopted her. Within about 3 months she went from a cat that could barely walk to a cat that could easily run and jump.
 
Thanks for all the posts. I'm starting to feel better about Miles chances. To be honest, I felt like he was in deep trouble, the weight loss, neuropathy and lethargy. I wanted him better now and that was making me to aggressive on increasing his dose. It's reassuring to see how other people have dealt with this and it's not so scary when you have a better idea of what you are dealing with.

I'm confused (it happens alot) about the PZI insulins available. I just got a bottle from Wedgewood pharmacies, but it not sure if all the PZI is the same. Is there a difference between what I'm getting from Wedgewood and say, the PZI from BCP pharmacy?

I've got a lot to learn, but I feel like I've hit the information jackpot here.....
 
Can't say for sure if there are differences. The vet I had for Maisey was new to the local practice and he was going to call prescription into our local pharmacy to mix. Then, the practice owner told him that they always use the company in Baltimore and have it shipped. I know the concentration I had was higher than most people on the forum seem to use - mine was PZI 100 and I think most have PZI 40.
So, starting out you need the needles that match the insulin strength. But from what I understand, the PZI 40 people sometimes switch to the 100 needles when their kitty needs micro doses, because they are a much smaller syringe with closer markings making it easier to give tiny doses.
I think that at least originally, the source - i.e. beef/pig is/was different and it is thought that one is easier on cats than the other.
 
There are two PZI's that are veterinary insulins:

BCP PZI, from BCP in Texas
A relatively new one, ProZinc.

Both of these are U-40 insulins (40 units of insulin per ml of liquid volume).

Other PZIs are human insulins (U-100) that are sometimes used in cats (unusual)

Any U-100 insulin MUST use U-100 syringes. With U-40 insulins, you should
start out with U-40 syringes (from vet only)....later you can switch to U-100
syringes, but you MUST use a conversion chart to measure the dose correctly.
(We can help with that)

Please post more info on your particular insulin:
Is it in the manufacturer's original vial ?
U-40 or U-100 (should say on the container).
Other details from the vial or prescription label.
 
BCP PZI isulin is availabe in U40, U50 or U100:
"BCP PZI® insulin is available in 100u/ml 5ml or 10ml, 50u/ml 10ml & 40u/ml 10ml. 40u syringes are also available for purchase."
From
http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/products_bovine.htm
Karen & Smokey(GA) said:
There are two PZI's that are veterinary insulins:

BCP PZI, from BCP in Texas
A relatively new one, ProZinc.

Both of these are U-40 insulins (40 units of insulin per ml of liquid volume).

snip
Click to expand...
 
Since you are already way ahead of the learning curve and already have a ton of great advice, all I can really add is my Welcome to the FDMB family!!!

And if no one has mentioned this yet, just breathe, its going to be fine now. You've switched Miles diet, you are testing at home and you have found your way to us. Give yourself a huge pat on the back.

You have now landed in the best place you never wanted to be, but will feel blessed to have found, to help you help Miles. There is a treasure trove of information here not only on feline diabetes but cats in general. I personally have 11 only one of which is diabetic (who was adopted by me from this very board). These folks have taught me more about cats than 30 years of ownership did. And we have an added perk over the vet's office, we don't have office hours, you can run here at 2am if you need to, we don't close for holidays, or take vacations. There is always someone around to answer a question, to be a shoulder to cry on, or to extend a cyber hug, or hold a hand/paw as we literally have members all over the world.

So Welcome to the family, and remember the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.

Mel, Maxwell and the Fur Gang
 
We have a diabetic Miles too! cat_pet_icon Good luck to your Miles, from ours!

Marnie and Paul
sugar cat: Miles, age 8 on Jun 9 2011, diagnosed Nov 2010, finally regulated!
non-sugar cats: Dmitri and Nikolai, both age 16
 
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