My cat Fluffer won't eat.

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332 is higher than he should be. The problem with him not eating is if you give him a dose of insulin and he goes too low he will need to eat to bring his BG up. I don't think it's a good idea to give 2 units with no data on his BG readings. Maybe the others will have better advice. If he was my cat I would want to start low and see where he goes but the most important thing is to get him eating.
 
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StephG said:
332 is higher than he should be. The problem with him not eating is if you give him a dose of insulin and he goes too low he will need to eat to bring his BG up. I don't think it's a good idea to give 2 units with no data on his BG readings. Maybe the others will have better advice. If he was my cat I would want to start low and see where he goes but the most important thing is to get him eating.
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I agree with Steph's advice. He has to eat first and foremost.
 
322 is high enough for insulin, but not terribly high if it represents a level after 2 days without insulin. (Is that correct?) Is he eating anything at all? Any luck with the baby food or feeding off your finger or on the roof of his mouth? Are you considering syringe feeding?
 
I got him to eat nosy of two of those lickies treats. Not sure what they are, Fancy Feast in a pouch, real food in gravy or cream. He then had about 20 little treats, followed by a few bites of tuna, and then some grated parmesan on a plate. I did do the finger thing with baby food and used a turkey baster to give him water. He's at the vet right now, hopefully getting better.
 
Yeah, when they did the first battery a few months ago they checked that. It was fine them, negate on Ketones, too. I hope it's still the same. I posted those test results somewhere here.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I got him to eat nosy of two of those lickies treats. Not sure what they are, Fancy Feast in a pouch, real food in gravy or cream. He then had about 20 little treats, followed by a few bites of tuna, and then some grated parmesan on a plate. I did do the finger thing with baby food and used a turkey baster to give him water. He's at the vet right now, hopefully getting better.
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It's great that you got food into him! My cat loves those lick'ums or whatever they're called. I give him the ones in the tube but bought two little packets of the pureed stuff that has some chunks in it. Haven't given him any yet to test how it effects his BG.
Glad your kitty is at the vet and hopefully he'll be on the mend when he comes home.
 
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I didn't mean to not post yesterday, but my tooth issue was really bad. I'm on a diet of Vicodin, Alleve, and antibiotics and to top it off I had a cluster migraine yesterday. It was a bad day. The Fluffer news was good. The vet gave him iv fluids and used the syringe trock to feed him. He got two units yesterday am and his level went down to 100! He was so happy last night. Cuddly and purring. The vet asked for him back today for another curve. He said no evening dose last night. Apparently some cats only need insulin once a day and that might be Fluffer's issue. I'll know more later. He said ketone were +1 and that wasn't really bad. This vet is awesome. He said not to worry about cost, he just wants to get back what he paid, no markup and I can pay him when I can. Best vet ever.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I didn't mean to not post yesterday, but my tooth issue was really bad. I'm on a diet of Vicodin, Alleve, and antibiotics and to top it off I had a cluster migraine yesterday. It was a bad day. The Fluffer news was good. The vet gave him iv fluids and used the syringe trock to feed him. He got two units yesterday am and his level went down to 100! He was so happy last night. Cuddly and purring. The vet asked for him back today for another curve. He said no evening dose last night. Apparently some cats only need insulin once a day and that might be Fluffer's issue. I'll know more later. He said ketone were +1 and that wasn't really bad. This vet is awesome. He said not to worry about cost, he just wants to get back what he paid, no markup and I can pay him when I can. Best vet ever.
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I'm so glad Fluffer's doing well. You had a heck of a day yesterday on top of the kitty stress. Your vet seems very reasonable and willing to work with you. That's great!

Have you considered setting up a spreadsheet like we use here to track Fluffer's data? We can see it and would be able to help you with better advice and more quickly.
 
Yes, I'll do the spreadsheet, but after he's out of the woods and after I get my tooth pulled next Tuesday. I'm having a hard time focusing right now.
 
I thought he was better, the vet said he only needs a shot, 2 units in the morning, but he was at 332 again last night. My wife won't give him a shot unless he eats so he's home miserable right now because she won't syringe feed him. You know, the no needle syringe. He ate a little today. I was in a rush this morning and asked her to do it and she flaked. I'll do it as soon as he eats when I get home.
 
Yep prozinc is a 12 hour insulin...it sometimes lasts a bit longer but not 24 hours. 1 shot a day would probably mean 12 hours of the normal smile curve and 12 hours of high numbers... Definitely not what you want.
 
I'm not sure what a pre-shot is. I tested him this morning and he was at 52. Can someone please explain to me how insulin shots work? I didn't give him any this morning because that seemed like an awefully low number. I did give him some honey and had to feed him his food and water myself. I didn't get him to eat much but I figure something is better than nothing.

So do hots raise or lower that number? If it raises it I should have given him that morning shot. And why do they have to eat before a shot? My cats are the worst when it comes to scheduled feeding. They flat out refuse to do it. They graze.
 
Does someone here have a spreadsheet template I can use? I want it to be as detailed as you guys, but have no idea what to put in where. I haven't used excel in so long.
 
A pre shot is the number you get before the shot. We suggest not shooting if that number is under 200 until you have enough data to predict how you cat might react to a given dose. Not giving him insulin this am was a good choice. The insulin would have taken his levels down lower into dangerous hypo territory. 50 is nearing hypo range.

You test in the am. If the level is above 200, you give insulin. (In his case, I would suggest a very small amount). He may rise a little in the first 2 hours because of the food he ate. Then he is likely to drop down into lower ranges, reaching his lowest point 5-7 hours after the shot. After that point (called the nadir) he should slowly rise back up to near the am range, 12 hours after the am shot.

Here are the directions for the spreadsheet we use:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Lots of your questions are answered in the two threads in blue in my signature. They will give you a good idea of how the insulin works and how to keep him in safe numbers.
 
Wow!! Glad you tested him and didn't give him insulin. Insulin brings the number down. It shouldn't be high and it shouldn't be below 50.
I would cut his pm dose down and his morning dose.
 
I just checked his level and it's at 242. He hasn't eaten all day that I can tell. A nibble here and there. He's lethargic all day and hasn't shown any interest in anything. I even brought him outside and he wasn't into it.
 
So even without insulin his numbers will fluctuate every day? :( I want him to get better. I thought once we hit our stride with this he'd be regular. I feel so bad for him. He's mildly cuddly still, but not much. He stopped purring again. He purrs so loudly you can hear it in another room. But today he's quiet.
 
Can you talk to your vet about getting a bag fluids that you can give at home? its important for him to stay hydrated, and that may help feel better so he'll eat on his own. Are you still assist feeding him?
 
I just gave him a kitty cat treat, popped it in his mouth and held it so he'd swallow it. He wasn't too happy about that, but afterwards he ate about 20 of them on his own. Think I should give him his shot now? If he's at like 240 or so is it safe to give the two units or maybe just 1?
 
I would only give one unit - at the most- and I would continue to try to get him to eat. If he were mine, I think I would try less than one unit as 2 units made him drop so low, and he is not eating well. Some insulin and some food is better than none, but I would be cautious. Get a before bed test to be sure he is not headed down.

Syringe feeding might be an option.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/syringe-assisted-feeding-video-and-tips.144367/
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
A pre shot is the number you get before the shot. We suggest not shooting if that number is under 200 until you have enough data to predict how you cat might react to a given dose. Not giving him insulin this am was a good choice. The insulin would have taken his levels down lower into dangerous hypo territory. 50 is nearing hypo range.

You test in the am. If the level is above 200, you give insulin. (In his case, I would suggest a very small amount). He may rise a little in the first 2 hours because of the food he ate. Then he is likely to drop down into lower ranges, reaching his lowest point 5-7 hours after the shot. After that point (called the nadir) he should slowly rise back up to near the am range, 12 hours after the am shot.

Here are the directions for the spreadsheet we use:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Lots of your questions are answered in the two threads in blue in my signature. They will give you a good idea of how the insulin works and how to keep him in safe numbers.
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I see the spreadsheet and I downloaded it but I don't see instructions on what's what there, like what I put in each block, what each block means, what things like amp mean.
 
StephG said:
Wow!! Glad you tested him and didn't give him insulin. Insulin brings the number down. It shouldn't be high and it shouldn't be below 50.
I would cut his pm dose down and his morning dose.
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I probably should've mentioned that the meter I have is a human meter. It's this one by Bayer. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NG0MSPQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 So if it said he was 358 earlier tonight before I gave him a shot what does that translate to for kitty levels?
 
acsmith1972 said:
I see the spreadsheet and I downloaded it but I don't see instructions on what's what there, like what I put in each block, what each block means, what things like amp mean.
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The first column is the date. The next is AMPS. That means before feeding and giving insulin you home test. You put what the number is in that box. It will automatically color code it. Next you would feed Fluffer and when he has eaten enough give insulin. That next box (labeled U) is how much insulin you gave in units. The next columns are for any testing that you do through out the day to see how low the insulin is taking Fluffer's BG (blood glucose). If you tested at 11am and that was 5 hours from when you gave insulin at 6am, that meter number would go in the +5 column. The spreadsheet will color code it automatically. Once you get to PMPS that is the start of the next 12 hour cycle. You would repeat the steps of the AMPS by testing him, feeding, giving insulin.

Your testing, feeding, and giving insulin should be 12 hours apart. For me it is 6am and 6pm. So my AMPS is 6am and my PMPS is 6pm. Your's can be whatever works for your schedule but they need to be consistent, same time each day.

The spreadsheet will let you accumulate data to see how that dose of insulin is working. Get mid cycle tests whenever possible (+5-7 hours after giving insulin). You want to see how low his BG is going. That information is just as important as the preshot tests.
 
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acsmith1972 said:
I probably should've mentioned that the meter I have is a human meter. It's this one by Bayer. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NG0MSPQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 So if it said he was 358 earlier tonight before I gave him a shot what does that translate to for kitty levels?
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You don't translate it to anything. The number is 358. But you can not dose base strictly on this number. I'm reading that he had a 52 earlier? That means the dose he was given was too much. That can either be because the dose was simply too much or if he is not eating. Food gives the body glucose. The body needs glucose to function. When a person or pet has diabetes, their pancreas is not producing enough insulin to let the body use the glucose. This is why we give insulin injections. If Fluffer hasn't eaten though, so no glucose, giving an insulin injection can be dangerous. It will drop his BG so low that it could be life threatening. Keep working on how to get Fluffer to eat. It is really important.
 
Yep, the only thing we need to know is if you are using a human or a pet meter. We don't try to translate numbers...since we know you're using a human meter, we can interpret those numbers just as they are. :)
 
Pati said:
You don't translate it to anything. The number is 358. But you can not dose base strictly on this number. I'm reading that he had a 52 earlier? That means the dose he was given was too much. That can either be because the dose was simply too much or if he is not eating. Food gives the body glucose. The body needs glucose to function. When a person or pet has diabetes, their pancreas is not producing enough insulin to let the body use the glucose. This is why we give insulin injections. If Fluffer hasn't eaten though, so no glucose, giving an insulin injection can be dangerous. It will drop his BG so low that it could be life threatening. Keep working on how to get Fluffer to eat. It is really important.
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Yeah, when he was 58 it wasn't from a shot. He didn't have one the night before and I didn't give him one that morning. I fed him honey then kitty treats and he eventually had a little regular food. At night it was 358 I think so I gave him his shot. This morning it was 378 so I had to syringe feed him some water and food and half hour later tested again, it was 350, so I gave him his two units. I'm not home till 8 but hopefully my wife will test him. I'll start the spreadsheet later tonight. It's our 3 year married anniversary so the plan is to go out assuming Fluffer is okay.
 
acsmith1972 said:
Has anyone used the meds to encourage eating?
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Many people have to use meds to fight nausea (cerenia or ondansetron) and stimulate appetitite (cyproheptadine) to get their kitty back on track. No food + not enough insulin = potentially dangerous health situation.
 
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/updated-tips-for-new-members.173572/

This link has a lot of really good information even though it's aimed at people who are using Lantus or Levemir insulin instead of ProZinc like you're using.

We're here to help you as much as we can but we really need to see all of your data on a spreadsheet as soon as you can get it up. Otherwise we're guessing at what's going on and are very limited in the advice we can offer. For example, telling us that Fluffer's BG was 58 at one test even though he had no insulin and then it's up to 358 later that day is very puzzling. We need data from well before and well after that to see what's happened. I strongly encourage you to find a little time to read the info stickies at the top of this forum's lists to learn more about ProZinc and how it works.
 
The problem with the spreadsheet is I work almost 80 hours a week. I'm so tired when I get home. And my dental visit the dentist managed to fracture my jaw so I'm also in a lot of pain. I'm not as regular as it takes checking Fluffer and his ear looks terrible now from all the pokes. I'll try to do the spreadsheet but it's going to have gaps. Last night he was at 580. I gave him 2 units. This morning it was like 428 so I gave him 2 units. Both after eating. The pills the vet gave for his appetite worked. He's eating everything and meowing which he never does. He's still not into his dry food but he eats everything else.
 
We have a lovely member who can help you with the spreadsheet. You just need to respond to her private message and give her some information. @Marje and Gracie can you save us once again?

As far as filling it in, do the best you can. Some people get an out of the door test in the am and an in the door at night, and a before bed test. Sometimes you have to wait for a day off to get midcycle numbers. They will be so helpful showing you whether he stays high and fat and needs an increase or whether he drops mid cycle and needs to keep the same dose or lower it.
 
Yep, just grab what tests you can!

So sorry to hear about the dentist visit! Hope they gave you something for the pain.
 
Pati said:
The first column is the date. The next is AMPS. That means before feeding and giving insulin you home test. You put what the number is in that box. It will automatically color code it. Next you would feed Fluffer and when he has eaten enough give insulin. That next box (labeled U) is how much insulin you gave in units. The next columns are for any testing that you do through out the day to see how low the insulin is taking Fluffer's BG (blood glucose). If you tested at 11am and that was 5 hours from when you gave insulin at 6am, that meter number would go in the +5 column. The spreadsheet will color code it automatically. Once you get to PMPS that is the start of the next 12 hour cycle. You would repeat the steps of the AMPS by testing him, feeding, giving insulin.

Your testing, feeding, and giving insulin should be 12 hours apart. For me it is 6am and 6pm. So my AMPS is 6am and my PMPS is 6pm. Your's can be whatever works for your schedule but they need to be consistent, same time each day.

The spreadsheet will let you accumulate data to see how that dose of insulin is working. Get mid cycle tests whenever possible (+5-7 hours after giving insulin). You want to see how low his BG is going. That information is just as important as the preshot tests.
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Tell me if I did this right.
 

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Rachel said:
Yep, just grab what tests you can!

So sorry to hear about the dentist visit! Hope they gave you something for the pain.
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Thanks. He gave me Amoxicillin, Ibuprofen, and Percocet. Just enough of all three for 7 days which ran out today. I go back to see him tomorrow. My wife used to be a dentist in Peru and her opinion is he fractured my jaw, which is why the pain hasn't gone away. Fingers crossed he gives me more of all three tomorrow.
 
The vet gave me some teeny tiny pill to help with his appetite and it's once every three days. I gave him one two days ago so tomorrow he can have one. Half hour after I got him to swallow it he was meowing like a big boy, which he never does, ever. He meows like a little girl kitty, and he was eating everything like a vacuum. And drinking an appropriate amount of water. I need to ask the vet if it could be once every other day instead. He was his old self for two days and now he looks sickly again.
 
Fluffer has twice peed on the welcome mats. The first time he did it I put it outside. I just noticed he nailed the other one. So that one's outside also. I'm not sure if I can wash those or not, maybe hose them down, but why is he missing the litter box? I cleaned it yesterday. I'll do it again in a little while. He's really sluggish today, I'm guessing low, but I'll check after I get back from the dentist. I gave him another of the pills for appetite a little while ago.
 
My cat does that when his BG is high. It's his way of letting me know he doesn't feel well. That's how I realized he had FD. The problem is that after he did it a couple of times, he started thinking the mat was his new litter box. I tried scrubbing it, and even sprayed an enzyme cleaner that is supposed to remove pet smells, but he still tried to pee on it so I had to toss it. As soon as it was gone, he went back to using the litter box correctly with no problem.

I hope things are better at the dentist today! You've got a lot going on right now!
 
I put both the welcome mats outside so I'll hose them down later and leave them outside. We have a store here called Burlington Coat Factory that sells nice welcome mats for like $5. I'll get more. At the dentist now waiting. I hate teeth. Fluffer still has those issues to deal with also but the vet wanted to do one thing at a time. But when I see him drink he always jumps back so I know there's something hurty in there. Poor kitty.
 
I skipped his last night shot because even though he was at over 200 he was really lethargic. No idea why. I tried some honey and it had no effect.
 
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