? My Beloved Saoirse has Gone to The Bridge

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Tuxedo Mom said:
Thanks for the input Marje..I guess I am grasping at straws here :(
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I understand. It's a reasonable question.
Critter Mom said:
Spoke too soon; she ate the gravy under her own steam but I had to mash up the meat and gravy and hand feed to get her to eat a bit of meat. Purred while eating, and only a minor grumble just after she had the food. Managed to get 15g into her. She would have eaten more gravy but I want to keep the feeds small so as not to make things worse.

Would gravy be enough to keep her going overnight in terms of emergency nutrition? (if she'll eat anything at the vets?).

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I think gravy is mostly carbs. I not sure how much nutrition is actually in it.
 
I don't know if you have Hills A/D canned food there, but my girlie had almost 2 weeks where she was not eating and the BW and x-rays and all couldn't determine the cause. I syringed the A/D (which worked VERY well because of the consistency) and finally got her back to eating on her own. As much as I dislike prescription foods it was very easy to syringe and has added supplements as it is used as a "recovery food" for sick kitties.

Throwing everything I can out here for you and Saoirse :bighug:
 
Status Check: (Alphatrak glucometer / human ketone meter)

PMBG: 8.1 (dose withheld due to inappetence / 7-day average BG at this time 8.7). Current dose: Skinny 2.5IU Lantus BID.
AMBG: 11.1 (insulin dose withheld again). AM blood ketone level: 0.1 mmol/L.
AM+8.00: Ate 1-2 tsps LC (Sheba food - caused growling)
AM+10.00: Ate tsp HC (Hill's i/d - grunt a few minutes after eating but appetite better. Overall still in considerable discomfort but better for pain meds.)
AM+11.25: BG 21.3 / Blood Ketones 0.3 - +1.25 after 1-2 tsp i/d HC food with gravy, +35.25 since last insulin dose.[/QUOTE]
AM+12.25: BG 20.5 (+2.25 after few tsps i/d HC). Ate 15g i/d HC - mostly the gravy (hungry but slightly nauseated - gravy going down better than meat).

NEED THOUGHTS ON LANTUS DOSE to give overnight:

Currently on 2.50 and was quite tightly regulated over last few days (spreadsheet up to date - US BG values on first tab - custom colours - Alphatrak meter).

I don't know whether to give her 1.50 or 2.00 units. I'd really welcome thoughts from experienced members on this ASAP. Petrified of getting it wrong.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
A good idea in principle but there's one major advantage about her being in hospital because they could give her pain meds through the IV as well as the necessary fluids.


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That is true and they can handle it if anything else comes up. What I meant to say, is would they give sub-q fluids and let her come back home. But if she needs to be on IV, yes she needs to be in the hospital. Eve was there for 3 days when she had her pancreatitis attack.
 
Can you liquidise the food with some water to make kitty soup? She may find that easier to eat.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
I don't know if you have Hills A/D canned food there, but my girlie had almost 2 weeks where she was not eating and the BW and x-rays and all couldn't determine the cause. I syringed the A/D (which worked VERY well because of the consistency) and finally got her back to eating on her own. As much as I dislike prescription foods it was very easy to syringe and has added supplements as it is used as a "recovery food" for sick kitties.

Throwing everything I can out here for you and Saoirse :bighug:
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:bighug:

I actually got some a/d for Saoirse earlier but the vets called to advise me not to feed that (I got it so that if there was no other option it might be worth trying). They advised that the i/d was a better option because a/d would be too rich.


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tiffmaxee said:
Some take their cats for IV during the day and bring then hone at night.
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I've done that before. If it were not for the leg weakness I'd be inclined to wait till morning but I'm so worried about her that I feel it would be better to get her help sooner rather than later. I just wish she didn't get stressed out so much in the hospital.


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The Hill's A/D might be a little richer than would be preferred but if eating is the first concern, it is VERY easy to syringe.

ETA

I have also given it to Tuxie who has chronic pancreatitis at the high end of the fPLI ( over the max number) and not had any bad results from using it.

ETA Sending many boat loads of prayer and strength energy for you and Saoirse
 
Alexi said:
Can you liquidise the food with some water to make kitty soup? She may find that easier to eat.
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Tried that earlier with the 'good' batch of Sheba. I think it helps not having to chew. She licked it off my fingers fine but then she started growling. I mashed up the i/d chunks in the gravy to get her to eat a little of them just now and that helped a bit to get some protein into her but the meat seems to nauseate her slightly. I'm going to prepare some gloop and mashed up meat/gravy for her to be given overnight so that she'll at least have the choice to lick some gravy off the mashed-up meat if she won't eat the gloop.

ETA:

Saoirse's abdomen is still very sore but she didn't growl after the i/d food.

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Another option is meat/chicken broth if you have any...especially the home-made type. It has lots of vitamins and nutrients in it..sort of like the chicken soup for a sick child approach. :bighug:
 
Have you tried to feed baby food meat? It is low carb/no sugar. I always used to give Squeaker chicken baby food meat. SEB will help to cost the stomach to help with acid/nausea. If you choose to try the baby food just make sure it is all meat and without onion and garlic.
 
Any thoughts on dose? I know the decision is mine but I'd really welcome thoughts from members on this (sounding-board-style).
 
Anitafrnhamer said:
Have you tried to feed baby food meat? It is low carb/no sugar. I always used to give Squeaker chicken baby food meat. SEB will help to cost the stomach to help with acid/nausea. If you choose to try the baby food just make sure it is all meat and without onion and garlic.
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I'd love to try this but, try as hard as I might in the past, I could not find one single baby food over here that hasn't been mucked about with in terms of the cat-inappropriate ingredients they contain to make them more appealing from a marketing angle. <sigh>


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@tiffmaxee, @Marje and Gracie -

Elise, Marje,

Do either of you know if it's OK to give 2mg ondansetron every 8 hours (or even 10 hours). Saoirse's next dose isn't due till 3am but I'd rather she had it before bringing her in to the vets. She has often taken it before on an 11/13 hour schedule without a problem. It would help a lot if I could give her the next dose a little early.


Mogs
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Mogs, thinking of you and Saorise and sending all my remaining vines. I hope Saorise can get some food down and starts to feel better. I learned the hard way the last time Jack felt bad and wasn't eating that fully skipping the shot was generally a bad idea. With 2 skipped shots, the depot will be draining. How much insulin is the hard part, especially since it is hard right now to get any food in her since she is not feeling good. It also is tough since any HC intervention could upset her tummy more. Wish I could offer more.

Feel better Saoirse and keep us updated Mogs. Sending vines till we get good news:bighug:
 
Oh, well. For right or wrong, I've just given Saoirse 1.00IU Lantus.

Status Check: (Alphatrak glucometer / human ketone meter)

PMBG: 8.1 (dose withheld due to inappetence / 7-day average BG at this time 8.7). Current dose: Skinny 2.5IU Lantus BID.
AMBG: 11.1 (insulin dose withheld again). AM blood ketone level: 0.1 mmol/L.
AM+8.00: Ate 1-2 tsps LC (Sheba food - caused growling)
AM+10.00: Ate tsp HC (Hill's i/d - grunt a few minutes after eating but appetite better. Overall still in considerable discomfort but better for pain meds.)
AM+11.25: BG 21.3 / Blood Ketones 0.3 - +1.25 after 1-2 tsp i/d HC food with gravy, +35.25 since last insulin dose.[/QUOTE]
AM+13.75: BG 20.5 (+2.25 after few tsps i/d HC). Ate 15g i/d HC - mostly the gravy (hungry but slightly nauseated - gravy going down better than meat).

PMPS (AM+15.25): BG 22.7 (+1.5 after 15g i/d HC). No food given at this time.


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If it was me, I would have done the same, a half dose sounds pretty reasonable, and Saorise is eating at least a little bit. Seeing even a little ketones and the higher BG would make we want to give some insulin like you did. Hang in there, I hope the root of the issue is this flare-up and she gets back to being a little more normal as the flareup subsides. She seems to be doing a little better after the bupe.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Mogs :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
I know how worrying it is when our kitties get pancreatitis.
My Sheba ALWAYS needs SubQ fluids when she gets a flare of pancreatitis as well as pain meds and anti nausea jabs.
My vet will not let me do SubQ fluids at home either.....very frustrating......but I take her to the vet and they will give her the SubQ fluids and I bring her home again. Doesn't take long and I find the SubQ fluids ALWAYS make a big difference, even when she doesn't look very dehydrated.

I like Mary Ann's suggestion of chicken broth. If you have some chicken breast you could poach it and give Saoirse small amounts of chicken with the juice, or even mixed with other food.
I am also a fan of SEB.
Sending my Strongest Aussie vines for a quick recovery for dear Saoirse
 
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Critter Mom said:
@tiffmaxee, @Marje and Gracie -

Elise, Marje,

Do either of you know if it's OK to give 2mg ondansetron every 8 hours (or even 10 hours). Saoirse's next dose isn't due till 3am but I'd rather she had it before bringing her in to the vets. She has often taken it before on an 11/13 hour schedule without a problem. It would help a lot if I could give her the next dose a little early.


Mogs
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Hi. Sorry. I'm at my mom's and just saw this. You can give 2mg every 8 hours. How much does Saoirse weigh? You might be able to give even more. This is according to a vet n one of the lists I read.
 
Critter Mom said:
@tiffmaxee, @Marje and Gracie -

Elise, Marje,

Do either of you know if it's OK to give 2mg ondansetron every 8 hours (or even 10 hours). Saoirse's next dose isn't due till 3am but I'd rather she had it before bringing her in to the vets. She has often taken it before on an 11/13 hour schedule without a problem. It would help a lot if I could give her the next dose a little early.


Mogs
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Looks like Elise got to you before I did but I was going to post the same info.

I hope it helps her feel better.
 
Just back from venturing out into the scary world to get Saoirse to the vets. (No taxis running at this time of night where I live.) Had a panic attack.
 
@tiffmaxee, @Marje and Gracie -

Thank you both for the ondansetron info. :bighug:

I gave Saoirse her dose of ondansetron at the vets. They're not used to prescribing most of Saoirse's meds so I don't get much help re dosing. Saoirse weighs 4.85kg.

Saoirse's being looked after by a new vet who only met her today. She's not a fighter of a vet, hence my earlier request for people to share their experience to help me in my deliberations about what to do.


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Comment from the vet which worried me when I asked her to take into consideration steroid treatment should Saoirse need it (paraphrasing):

"We can't treat pancreatitis. Pain management is basically all we can do. We might not be able to do much more for her."

I'm glad I didn't get that sort of response 2 years ago when Saoirse had a flare and I'm eternally grateful to the members of FDMB for teaching me how to manage Saoirse's health needs since then.

:bighug: FDMB :bighug:


Mogs
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I don't have a lot of experience with pancreatitis, but as far as the insulin issue goes, you can try very small 8hour dosing to completely eliminate the peak, and be able to shoot very small doses that still provide enough coverage. I'd start with 0.25U every 8 hours and go from there that would put you up to only 0.75U a day total which is about 1/3 of her normal dose. Raise the dose after 2 days. No or too low of insulin will make her pancreas work harder, as will high blood sugars.

Hope the IVs help. Praying for you guys.
 
Rachel said:
I'm so sorry you had to do that Mogs. Is Saoirse staying at the vet for now?
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Hi Rachel,

She's in for the night. They'll review how she's doing in the morning and give me a call. We don't know how long she needs to be there or how long she can tolerate being there (she gets very scared-stressy and fractious; not ideal at the best of times and very difficult in the current circumstances).

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@Meya14 -

Thank you yet again for your invaluable help and advice. The vets historically have been inclined to underdose her any time she has been in with them (an even bigger worry right now). Thank you, too, for your prayers; we really need them. :bighug:


Mogs
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My heartfelt thanks to all of you for your prayers, your healing thoughts, and your hugs. I am so grateful to all of you. I'm in poor shape as it is; Heaven only knows how I'd be without you all in our corner.

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Thank you for your post, Bron; I really appreciate hearing about your experience.

How badly has pain affected Sheba during a flare? What symptoms did she have?

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When Sheba gets a pancreatitis flare she sometimes has a bit of diarrhoea leading up to it....
Sometimes she vomits but not always.
She just stops eating which is a big red flag, as she is normally a good eater.
She needs anti nausea meds to start eating again.....which is usually slow to start with.
I can tell she is in pain as it hurts her tummy to touch it and she will growl, which is not something she will usually do. She will just lie in her bed and not respond much when I talk to her or when I get food out......not normal behaviour at all.
She responds to a jab of bupe for the pain.
And she always needs to have some SubQ fluids.
Sometimes the vet will also give her antibiotics..if she has a temperature.

Am so glad you were able to get her to the vet. Well done you! I know how hard it is for you :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Sending the strongest vines.
 
I'm absolutely reeling. Saoirse has been doing really well for quite some time now; so much so that I was afraid to post a bulletin here to let you all know for fear of jinxing things.

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I know how upsetting it is to leave them at the vet! I had to leave Elektra overnight last week and I was so upset.

Mogs you are one of the strongest people I "know". Saoirse is a fighter and I have faith in her and you. I wish I lived around the corner so I could help but know I'll be thinking of you. If you feel lonely judtb know thoughts are coming constantly your way from me and others!

Try to get some sleep. Saoirse is safe and cared four and you'll be better equipped to help her with Somme rest on board.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
I can tell she is in pain as it hurts her tummy to touch it and she will growl, which is not something she will usually do.
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That's how Saoirse is right now. Like Sheba, that's not normal behaviour from her. Saoirse needed more than a bupe injection today and even then she only got very temporary relief, even with the Metacam to back it up. The second dose of bupe helped a bit more (that's when she started wanting to eat again) but it didn't eliminate the pain completely. If I could get the pain under control so that she could eat her regular low carb food (good batch), I'd be able to keep her fed, hydrated and back into better BG numbers at home.

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Prayers and healing from Me and Smiffy too ..... There are so many people here
sending their love it's got to make a difference and you are doing a great job
How frightening for you ... Hope she is calm and well again soon.
 
Rachel said:
Try to get some sleep.
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I'm going to lie down for a while. I'm exhausted and in a lot of pain. Can't take any ibuprofen because I haven't been able to eat.

You might not be round the corner, but I know that you're always there for us, Rachel, and it is such a help and a comfort to know that.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
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Bron and Sheba said:
Am so glad you were able to get her to the vet. Well done you! I know how hard it is for you :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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A case of adrenalin overload providing the strength to lift the car off the child, Bron. It means an awful lot to me that someone understands just how hard things can be for me.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
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