My 13yr old boy Rocky newly diagnosed,12 hrs between feeding?

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Paula and Rocky

Paula and Rocky

Member Since 2020
Hello everyone! I am new to the site and so happy to have found you. Rocky was diagnosed last week and I was told by the vet to get his food regulated before starting the insulin. I found your site before his diagnosis a couple weeks ago and had suspected the outcome of my vet visit. I immediately stopped feeding him dry food which had great effects almost instantly he stopped drinking so much water which was a relief. I free fed my cats all their lives, which I have now stopped that however my vet has told me no food for 12 hours between feeding.And when I begin his first shots tomorrow I am to give him the shot after he eats.Does all of this sound ok? He is getting so hungry in between feedings and doesn't eat a whole can of food when he does eat. I'm afraid of him not getting enough food. Any suggestions?
 
Hi Paula and welcome!

no, it absolutely does not sound right to me. That works for dogs but rarely for cats who are grazers by nature. Most of us feed the bulk of the meals at or near shot times, but we also feed smaller meals in between. It’s actually easier on their pancreas and if a diabetic cat is hungry it should eat. Diabetes affects the cats ability to process nutrients in food hence the usual weight loss. Has he lost weight? Also little known fact, cats lose calories by urinating since there’s sugar in their urine.

I do agree that you need to feed first then shoot because you want to make sure kitty has food in them to balance off the insulin you’re giving them. Can you give us more info on Rocky please? What insulin is he going to be on and the dosage and what food are you currently feeding him. Please take a look at this link for instructions on how to help us help you better by setting up your signature so all of Rocky’s basic info are right there for all of us to see. We also encourage everyone to home test so you can see the BG levels before each shot and adjust the dose according to their lowest point in the cycle (12 hours). Here you go:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

welcome again and I’m so happy you’re asking questions before getting him started on insulin :bighug:
 
To a degree, what your vet is recommending may depend on the insulin. Harsh, fast acting insulin (e.g., Vetsulin, NPH -- which is also called Novolin H or Humulin N) require that you give a good amount of food anywhere from 20 - 60 min prior to giving a shot. The insulins recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn, either Prozinc or Lantus, are much gentler, take longer before the insulin kicks in, and last a lot longer. With these insulins, you feed at shot time and most of us provide multiple, smaller meals up until the nadir (point of peak action of the insulin after which the effect of the insulin begins to wear off). A lot may also depend on your schedule. If you work outside of the house, many of us. use a timed feeder to provide those mini-meals during the day.
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
Hi Paula and welcome!

no, it absolutely does not sound right to me. That works for dogs but rarely for cats who are grazers by nature. Most of us feed the bulk of the meals at or near shot times, but we also feed smaller meals in between. It’s actually easier on their pancreas and if a diabetic cat is hungry it should eat. Diabetes affects the cats ability to process nutrients in food hence the usual weight loss. Has he lost weight? Also little known fact, cats lose calories by urinating since there’s sugar in their urine.

I do agree that you need to feed first then shoot because you want to make sure kitty has food in them to balance off the insulin you’re giving them. Can you give us more info on Rocky please? What insulin is he going to be on and the dosage and what food are you currently feeding him. Please take a look at this link for instructions on how to help us help you better by setting up your signature so all of Rocky’s basic info are right there for all of us to see. We also encourage everyone to home test so you can see the BG levels before each shot and adjust the dose according to their lowest point in the cycle (12 hours). Here you go:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

welcome again and I’m so happy you’re asking questions before getting him started on insulin :bighug:
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He has lost some weight I'd say about 2 lbs he weighs 10 right now he's a big cat I have tried a couple different canned foods he is on Fancy Feast naturals and I was feeding Tiny Tiger but I read more about that one and it has food coloring in it so I stopped it.
 
Paula Berndt said:
He has lost some weight I'd say about 2 lbs he weighs 10 right now he's a big cat I have tried a couple different canned foods he is on Fancy Feast naturals and I was feeding Tiny Tiger but I read more about that one and it has food coloring in it so I stopped it.
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Can you ask the vet what his ideal weight is? If he’s under weight, and it sounds like he is, I’d feed him what he needs not to be hungry. A good rule of thumb is 300 calories a day but there’s a formula people use here based on ideal weight @Nan & Amber (GA) may know...
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
To a degree, what your vet is recommending may depend on the insulin. Harsh, fast acting insulin (e.g., Vetsulin, NPH -- which is also called Novolin H or Humulin N) require that you give a good amount of food anywhere from 20 - 60 min prior to giving a shot. The insulins recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn, either Prozinc or Lantus, are much gentler, take longer before the insulin kicks in, and last a lot longer. With these insulins, you feed at shot time and most of us provide multiple, smaller meals up until the nadir (point of peak action of the insulin after which the effect of the insulin begins to wear off). A lot may also depend on your schedule. If you work outside of the house, many of us. use a timed feeder to provide those mini-meals during the day.
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Should I request a different insulin? I don't like the sounds of the novolin!
 
Paula Berndt said:
Thank you so much for your reply! They prescribed Novolin
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NPH hits hard and fast usually so make sure Rocky gets a meal 1 hour before insulin. Also make sure he gets a snack 1-2 hours after his injection. NPH is hard on kitties and doesn't last nearly as long as it needs to, I'd recommend changing to a gentler kind (Prozinc or Lantus) as recommended per the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines. You can show this to your veterinarian.

Here is the sticky for using Novolin insulin safely.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
To a degree, what your vet is recommending may depend on the insulin. Harsh, fast acting insulin (e.g., Vetsulin, NPH -- which is also called Novolin H or Humulin N) require that you give a good amount of food anywhere from 20 - 60 min prior to giving a shot. The insulins recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn, either Prozinc or Lantus, are much gentler, take longer before the insulin kicks in, and last a lot longer. With these insulins, you feed at shot time and most of us provide multiple, smaller meals up until the nadir (point of peak action of the insulin after which the effect of the insulin begins to wear off). A lot may also depend on your schedule. If you work outside of the house, many of us. use a timed feeder to provide those mini-meals during the day.
Click to expand...
My vet didn't talk to me about test strips I don't know anything about testing him. Only that I have to bring him in 2 weeks after he starts insulin!
 
Paula Berndt said:
My vet didn't talk to me about test strips I don't know anything about testing him. Only that I have to bring him in 2 weeks after he starts insulin!
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This is probably to do a glucose curve. They're unnecessary if you're testing at home. A curve at your vets will only show one day of tests and your vet will probably decide to increase the dose if the numbers are still high.

A curve at your vets is both expensive and slightly inaccurate; stress increases blood sugar and most cats are stressed at the vet. We also don't recommend deciding a dose based on a single curve. If you go out now and buy testing supplies, it will not only be cheaper than the visit in a couple weeks but you'll also be able to supply your vet with the 2-week information that's much more valuable than what they can do in a day. It's safer for Rocky too and prevents nasty ER visits.
 
I totally agree with a Panic.

Most vets don’t. Most vets tell you that you can bring the cat in once every 2 weeks or once a month and check the BG level there, but that’s not the safest nor the best way to treat your cat’s diabetes. I wasted precious months with Minnie doing that and she developed severe neuropathy as a result of the diabetes being unregulated for so long. You can purchase a fairly inexpensive human meter from Walmart called ReliOn which a lot of us use including myself. We can guide you on how to do it safely at home and there are a ton of tips on this forum that makes the entire process a lot less stressful and much easier. I’d consider it if I were you. It’s truly the only way to be in control and find the most effective dose for your cat. It’s also the best shot at remission :)
 
Paula -

Where in Ohio are you located? I'm in Columbus.

Most of us home test. In fact, we're pretty militant about encouraging people to join us on the home testing bandwagon. It is the only way to keep your cat safe. It's also the only way most of us feel comfortable helping you with dosing. We are committed to your cat's safety.

If your vet gives you a hard time about home testing (they will usually tell you something like it is too stressful on your cat or it will ruin your relationship with your kitty), you can tell them you've spoken with quite a few caregivers of diabetic cats and that's not the case. In fact, cats' numbers are higher at the vet's office than at home which can result in the vet increasing the dose and once you and your kitty are home and your cat is comfortable, you end up administering too much insulin based on the numbers at the vet's office. There are very few people whose cat responds negatively to home testing. Of course, treats are a big way to influence how your cat reacts. (If you look at the #7 post in Gabby's Legacy in my signature, you'll see how Gabby responded.)

When my vet initially gave me a bit of a hard time about home testing, I looked her square in the eye and asked if she had a diabetic infant or if she was diabetic, would she not test before giving an injection? It is not safe to give insulin blindly. You have no way to know if your cat's blood glucose numbers are in a safe range to shoot. If you don't test periodically throughout the AM and PM cycles, you have no way to know if the amount of insulin is too little, just right, or too much.
 
As an example, today I tested my Minnie before her morning shot and she was at 65 which is too low for comfort. Based on that I waited 30 minutes and retested her and she was going up at 95. Based on this info, I decided to give her a reduced dose because 95 is still low. I’d have had no way of knowing this if I didn’t home test because she was acting normal, in fact better than she had been in the last 3 weeks. I f I were judging by behavior alone, I’d have given her the full regular dose and she’d likely have gone into a hypoglycemia episode. The risk is there maybe not so much in the beginning when the numbers are high, but it’s still possible even then that your cat will drop to an unsafe range and the only way to avoid that is truly by home testing. As Sienne also said, it’s nearly impossible for us to give you advice on the dosage if you’re not home testing and we can’t see the BG levels :cat:
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Paula -

Where in Ohio are you located? I'm in Columbus.

Most of us home test. In fact, we're pretty militant about encouraging people to join us on the home testing bandwagon. It is the only way to keep your cat safe. It's also the only way most of us feel comfortable helping you with dosing. We are committed to your cat's safety.

If your vet gives you a hard time about home testing (they will usually tell you something like it is too stressful on your cat or it will ruin your relationship with your kitty), you can tell them you've spoken with quite a few caregivers of diabetic cats and that's not the case. In fact, cats' numbers are higher at the vet's office than at home which can result in the vet increasing the dose and once you and your kitty are home and your cat is comfortable, you end up administering too much insulin based on the numbers at the vet's office. There are very few people whose cat responds negatively to home testing. Of course, treats are a big way to influence how your cat reacts. (If you look at the #7 post in Gabby's Legacy in my signature, you'll see how Gabby responded.)

When my vet initially gave me a bit of a hard time about home testing, I looked her square in the eye and asked if she had a diabetic infant or if she was diabetic, would she not test before giving an injection? It is not safe to give insulin blindly. You have no way to know if your cat's blood glucose numbers are in a safe range to shoot. If you don't test periodically throughout the AM and PM cycles, you have no way to know if the amount of insulin is too little, just right, or too much.
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I'm in Youngstown, I've never given my cats treats I have 1 overweight cat and Rocky used to be bigger so I never felt the need to add to it but I will get some and hopefully he will indulge.
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
I totally agree with a Panic.

Most vets don’t. Most vets tell you that you can bring the cat in once every 2 weeks or once a month and check the BG level there, but that’s not the safest nor the best way to treat your cat’s diabetes. I wasted precious months with Minnie doing that and she developed severe neuropathy as a result of the diabetes being unregulated for so long. You can purchase a fairly inexpensive human meter from Walmart called ReliOn which a lot of us use including myself. We can guide you on how to do it safely at home and there are a ton of tips on this forum that makes the entire process a lot less stressful and much easier. I’d consider it if I were you. It’s truly the only way to be in control and find the most effective dose for your cat. It’s also the best shot at remission :)
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Is this a human test kit or do I look for an animal one?
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
when I think back at all the months I didn’t do it, it scares the hell out of me. Minnie must have had a guardian angel looking out for her and now I can’t imagine not testing her daily
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I'm considering putting off starting Rocky's insulin so I can call the vet and ask for the Lantus insulin instead and to get my meter for him. Do you think that would be ok? Or could I even just do 1 dose if I get the new insulin?
 
You can get PureBites, they are freeze-dried single ingredient treats. My girl loved them but they got expensive so I'd buy her chicken and bake it instead. :)

You can go to the pharmacy section at Walmart and pick up a ReliOn meter, lancets, strips, and lancing device. They are for humans, they work the same for cats. Most vets insist on the Alphatrak but the strips are outrageously expensive.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
To a degree, what your vet is recommending may depend on the insulin. Harsh, fast acting insulin (e.g., Vetsulin, NPH -- which is also called Novolin H or Humulin N) require that you give a good amount of food anywhere from 20 - 60 min prior to giving a shot. The insulins recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn, either Prozinc or Lantus, are much gentler, take longer before the insulin kicks in, and last a lot longer. With these insulins, you feed at shot time and most of us provide multiple, smaller meals up until the nadir (point of peak action of the insulin after which the effect of the insulin begins to wear off). A lot may also depend on your schedule. If you work outside of the house, many of us. use a timed feeder to provide those mini-meals during the day.
Click to expand...
I just looked at the prescription again and it says Novolin N
 
Paula Berndt said:
I'm considering putting off starting Rocky's insulin so I can call the vet and ask for the Lantus insulin instead and to get my meter for him. Do you think that would be ok? Or could I even just do 1 dose if I get the new insulin?
Click to expand...
I would HOPE your Vet would concede. You could tell him youve been studying up on this subject and that you'd prefer to start with lantus. If he doesnt maybe another vet will.
 
Novolin N is great for dogs. Not so great for cats. Tell your vet you did your research. Elizabeth/Panic linked the AAHA guidelines. Send the link or print out the pdf and give it to your vet.

Lantus is a human insulin. It's available at any pharmacy. Depending on what Rocky's BG numbers look like, you can delay. However, if Rocky's numbers are high, I wouldn't recommend it. What I would suggest is asking your vet to write the Rx for Lantus pens (i.e., Solostar pens) and you'll need an Rx for U100 syringes. Call around to see if there's a pharmacy (check Sam's Club, Costco, Target, etc.) to see if they will sell you a single pen. Lantus is very expensive in the US.

However, before you give the pharmacist the prescription, make a copy. Most of the people here buy their Lantus from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver, Canada. The price is about 1/4 to 1/3 of the cost here but they will need a copy of the prescription.

Make a copy of the Rx for the syringes, too. Walmart sells a good meter that has inexpensive strips for testing BG. I've never used their syringes but many people here do. I always purchased my syringes from ADW (American Diabetes Warehouse) online. They will need a copy of your Rx for the syringes.
 
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Panic said:
You can get PureBites, they are freeze-dried single ingredient treats. My girl loved them but they got expensive so I'd buy her chicken and bake it instead. :)

You can go to the pharmacy section at Walmart and pick up a ReliOn meter, lancets, strips, and lancing device. They are for humans, they work the same for cats. Most vets insist on the Alphatrak but the strips are outrageously expensive.
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Is there a section here about how to test? I haven't a clue how to administer a BG test
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Novolin N is great for dogs. Not so great for cats. Tell your vet you did your research. Panic linked the AAHA guidelines. Send the link or print out the pdf and give it to your vet.

Lantus is a human insulin. It's available at any pharmacy. Depending on what Rocky's BG numbers look like, you can delay. However, if Rocky's numbers are high, I wouldn't recommend it. What I would suggest is asking your vet to write the Rx for Lantus pens (i.e., Solostar pens) and you'll need an Rx for U100 syringes. Call around to see if there's a pharmacy (check Sam's Club, Costco, Target, etc.) to see if they will sell you a single pen. Lantus is very expensive in the US.

However, before you give the pharmacist the prescription, make a copy. Most of the people here buy their Lantus from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver, Canada. The price is about 1/4 to 1/3 of the cost here but they will need a copy of the prescription.

Make a copy of the Rx for the syringes, too. Walmart sells a good meter that has inexpensive strips for testing BG. I've never used their syringes but many people here do. I always purchased my syringes from ADW (American Diabetes Warehouse) online. They will need a copy of your Rx for the syringes.
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Ok! I will do all of that I have the U100 syringes from Sam's club already. Thank you so much
 
Panic said:
You can go to the pharmacy section at Walmart and pick up a ReliOn meter, lancets, strips, and lancing device. They are for humans, they work the same for cats. Most vets insist on the Alphatrak but the strips are outrageously expensive.
Click to expand...

that's what our vet said to use and now after 6 months of expensive strips, we are switching over the a walmart relion.

Paula Berndt said:
how to test?
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for us, it seemed like an impossible thing to do at first, but now they are just a regular part of our day.
you'll get the hang of it in no time.
^jw
 
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