Musette has finally found the Blue numbers.

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MommaOfMuse

MommaOfMuse

Member Since 2010
Well after leading me on a merry dance she has decided that she looks very stylish in blue! Now to convince her that she will look even better in green. It did take raising her back to .5u and giving her a 36 hour break from insulin (per vet's request, with ketone monitoring) get her into the blues. Now to just not freak out that I shot a still falling number on her tonight...she was only 135 at pmps, which is down from her +9 of 149...makes me nervous, but will be testing her at +2 and +4 just to make sure she doesn't continue into the basement tonight.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Glad she is getting decent numbers - this is really good for the short period of time she has been getting all the proper components in her care - from food to insulin to love and stability.

Curious why the vet suggested a 36 hr "break" from insulin? All that does is empty the shed, so you are now filling it - and still getting those low PS numbers. To me that seems like she is going to need a dose reduction.

Not sure of the usefulness, really, in skipping insulin for that long as a "break". I have seen folks skip because they were out of town and had no reliable, or willing person to shoot insulin. And I have skipped a single shot on occasion, usually when the schedule is off and I get a low PS so I figure I'll skip and shoot the next one at something like +20 to get things back on schedule. Doing that comes with consequences of higher numbers for a shot or two (usually).
 
Sheila,

Basically for that exact reason, he wanted to empty her shed out and 'reset' her so that we had a baseline to work with instead of fighting against all the other doses that she had been given. Then restart her like a newly dxed diabetic, since I was having such a hard time finding a dose that works for her. It was kind of a Hail Mary Pass, when all else fails go back to square one type thing. He would have really preferred that I would have brought her in and left her with him, but he knows that I would test her like crazy and that I would stalk her to the litter box to make sure every time she peed I got a ketone test, so he didn't insist that she stay at the office over the weekend.

Just knowing her the way I do I expect that she will probably be getting a reduction fairly soon once the shed is refilled again. But this way I'm at least working with a 'clean slate' and going from there. He was basically concerned that since she had so many changes in her life recently that she was reacting to everything, so give her a break, let her reset, and start over low and go slow with her. The one thing we battled on was where to restart her at, he was pushing for a full 1u, I was pushing for .25u so we compromised at .5u, as I already know that a full 1u will send her into near hypo, but with her history of DKA he said he would like to see her run a little lower than what he would normally like to see a new diabetic run, well that and he knows I don't shoot blind.

I have to say we were both a little surprised that she runs as low as she does without insulin, as she pretty much stays in the 200s and will drop about 45pts with just food, which we both hope is a good sign that she has an excellent chance once we figure out the little puzzle of how to get her down and stay down that she will go into remission, or at the very least be a very low dose kitty.

Its a good thing he and I are friends outside of the clinic because we probably spent a good couple of hours on the phone with each other, discussing, going over data, and brain storming what was the best way to proceed with her. But it came down to, if she had been dxed at his clinic they would have run one curve on her without insulin and then based on those numbers decided where to start her, so we just kind of did that without the vet stress with me running the curve.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
The consensus on the board is that vet curves do not work and are often responsible for starting doses which are too high.

As for skipping shots for a day and a half, well, in the beginning months I think that's a fool-hardy thing to do unless the vet has completely ruled out any and all infections. The possibility of ketones is too great.

I am stating these points because newbies read threads all the time and think that because something seems to be working for one cat, they should try it for theirs but they don't post asking about these kinds of things and could get their cat in trouble if they try something like skipping shots. I know this is an ISG section, but it's open to everyone.

Sorry to be blunt. I know you wouldn't do anything to harm or jeopardize Musette's progress, but often times newbies don't realize the ECID aspect to FD.
 
Vicky, those are very good points. It is important to "cover all bases", but also that those who read threads ASK about their own cat's situation before doing anything someone else is trying.

Mel, I forgot about her ketones episode. Even more reason that skipping shots is questionable to me. I do trust that YOU were on top of the situation with testing both BG and ketones.

It does seem that if she could keep herself in the low 200s and had a food drop, she is having some pancreatic action. Beau was like that. I tried him off insulin in his vetsulin days (out of pure frustration) and he could keep himself below 300 and had some food drops. But the real story is in that week I was out of town in Sept '09 and he got no insulin, but the sitter was testing. What a great set of data that was! He ranged over 100 points, but kept bringing himself down after cycling higher.

I do think you have a very good change of getting her into remission. I imagine that she is still sorting things out in her mind about what her life is now compared to "before". I know it took Jeddie months, maybe even up to a year, to really feel secure in his new life.
 
Oh I agree and so does my vet that had it been anyone other than me, he definitely wouldn't have suggested it at all, but he knows me well and knows that I would stay on top of her. We had already ruled out infections of all sources, teeth, URI, UTI etc, and that if she even showed so much as a trace of Ketones I was not to wait, and start her back on insulin immediately. But that we needed more data than what we had, given her past history and lack of vet records over the period of time from when she was first dxed to when she came in my care. This is defintely NOT something that any one that is new to treating a diabetic cat should try, but since I have a history with not only treating my own diabetics but also several at the clinic, my vet felt safe in letting me handle it.

He doesn't even like doing curves at the clinic because of vet stress, however, had he not known that I would stay on top of her, he would have felt better having her at the clinic, not so much for the BG reading as watching out for the ketones, especially since she is a twice survivor of DKA. This was truly, an ECID and Every caretaker is different, and NOT for a beginner. I also have the fact that I'm a vet tech student on my side so I know exactly what to watch for and how to handle things that might freak out a beginner. It did give me a wonderful amount of data, to know exactly what is going on with her body and how it is reacting to insulin, as well as letting me judge if she is getting too much or too little.

I now know that if she is staying in the 200s she probably isn't getting enough insulin because it isn't moving her out of her 'normal' range. And I'm sure she is also still sorting out a lot of her life now as opposed to then in her mind. A lot has changed for her, and being a Himalayan, makes some of those changes, although for the better hard on her. Himalayans are known for being a fiercely loyal breed of cats, for the most part they become very much one person or one family cats, they take losing their person really hard, so it is going to take her awhile to realize she is in a better place, with people that truly love her for just her.

I've already seen some improvements in that department, she is getting sweeter to us and the other cats, more purry and more willing to allow herself to be held etc. When she first got here, she was fine as long as we were just petting her, but if either of us tried to pick her up and cuddle her, she would lash out and bite, there were several times in the first few days I was really glad she was front declawed or I would have lost an eye, for picking her up. With time, patience and a lot of love, I think she will come around on all fronts. Every day we learn a little more about each other, and the bond deepens. She is starting to realize that she doesn't have to react violently when she wants to be left alone, and I'm learning her signals for "Not now mom, I don't wanna cuddle". I honestly don't think she has known much cuddling or affection not only from humans but from other cats. I know she lived with another cat for those 11 years but that it was dominate over her, and because of it, she was the one that got thrown outside. So she is having to not only adjust to people that want to love on her, she is also learning she doesn't have to be 'on guard' with the other cats, that when they approach her, they only want to snuggle or groom her. They aren't trying to pick on her, steal her food or take her toys, luckily just about everyone here is so laid back that if she gets up and moves away or hisses at them, they respect her wishes and leave her alone.

And while I'm at it, again for any newbie that might be reading this. While it would be lovely if she went into remission so she could live out her golden years without all the pokes and shots, that isn't really my goal. My goal is a happy and healthy cat, if we get remission, well that is just icing on the cake.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Glad to see that she is slowly adjusting to her new home and new family of people and cats. Beau was unsocialized to both when I caught him. My cat, Murphy (GA), took him under her wing and mothered him. He loved her. It was right after her long illness (cancer) and death that he was dx with FD. But her lessons on cat relationships has stayed with him and he is affectionate with all the other cats. I slowly socialized him to me, and his illness was like being tossed into the deep end with humans. He had so many vets and vet techs handling him in such a short period of time that he finally realized we were all trying to help. But he still makes if very clear that he doesn't want to be cuddled most of the time.

I do hope that Musette allows your attentions and welcomes cuddling. It sounds like she is on the way to that already. I just takes patience. I wish Beau was more accepting of cuddles.
 
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