Murphy update

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Carol & Murphy (GA)

Carol & Murphy (GA)

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Hi Prozincers (and honorary prozincers)
I just wanted to give an update on Murphy. He hasn't been himself ever since he had the bad pancreatitis after being on the venison so successfully. He has since developed a food aversion to almost everything and I'm never sure how much he is going to eat when I shoot him - which has made me somewhat reticent to push his dose up (I clearly need to) He won't touch the Young Again (which really bums me out) and pretty much ignores the tiki cat chicken - which is what I want him to be on. My hypothesis is that the fat in wet food sets him off - I'm looking for low fat/low carb food to try , but I am not sure what would be considered low fat. I joined the Facebook ibd kitties group- everyone agrees his history of canned food intolerance is indeed strange -the other possibility is the carrageenan that is frequently added to canned food. I'm really trying not to have to make my own cat food, but it is clear I can't get his diabetes under control until I can get a better diet for him. In mid January he is scheduled for an abdominal ultrasound by an actual veterinary radiologist - I'm hoping to get some good info from that, and tomorrow he is getting a GI panel drawn and sent somewhere in Texas. He has to be fasting for 12 hrs so that is a bit of an issue. So I'll keep slowly pushing him up beyond 3 units, but with his ever changing diet, it's like a game of darts.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
It sounds like you have an excellent if difficult plan in place, Carol. I desparately hope you will find some answers for Murphy.[/QUOTE
thanks Sue Alas, I had my hopes up as I tried Primal freeze dried raw turkey just now and he ate it - only to vomit it all 30 minutes later. He's back to eating the Evo (sigh) I know he can do well by those weeks of blues and greens when he was eating Young Again and the venison It's sad because he hasn't really been playing or sitting in my Mom's lap - just mainly sleeps - and he turned 11 on Christmas Day!!
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Carol, I hope the tests give you some answers and that you can find something that will help Murphy.
 
Per Cat Info, you can add 1 ounce of lean meat or poultry to 5 ounces of cat food to reduce the fat and carb content.
 
BJM said:
Per Cat Info, you can add 1 ounce of lean meat or poultry to 5 ounces of cat food to reduce the fat and carb content.
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Thanks BJ - now if I could only get him to eat it I introduced Primal freeze dried raw turkey today - he liked it and ate it and then vomited - now he won't look at it - cross another one off the list and add another food aversion :(:banghead:
 
If he doesn't eat in 2-3 days, you may need an esophageal tube so you can get some nutrition in him. It makes giving more calories much easier (at least it was doing it for my civvie Jojo).
 
Carol, I hate to hear about this frustrating food aversion problem with Murphy! :( Along with the others I am really hoping the testing points you in the right direction.

I wish I had something to offer (food suggestions, advice) but it really sounds like you have done your homework and have tried everything! :bookworm:

:bighug:Hugs to you & Murphy! :bighug:
 
good morning Sharon - thanks for the good wishes, all
Murphy is getting some GI testing today (bloodwork) and he has to be fasting > 10 hrs. So I got up at 5:30 and tested him - put his food down - he was eating so I gave him 3 units then he stopped eating and wouldn't eat another bite of anything I tried (I offered him 8 different foods including some very high carb kibble) He probably only ate 20% (if that) of what he should have but now I had to take the food away and wait for the vet at 4 pm. I got some food samples from Wysong yesterday and left them in the envelope on the floor - he got into two of them last night, so maybe they have made him ill. I don't know. I'm somewhat worried about having given him the 3 units of insulin with such a small amount of food intake Whatever is wrong with him is clearly happening more frequently now - scarred pancreas? inflamed GI system? It's quite discouraging looking at the IBDkitties Facebook page - so many cats PTS every day it seems.
 
Could he have gotten into the samples shortly before you fed this AM? If so, maybe he wasn't hungry at breakfast time. What will these tests show?
 
Sharon14 said:
Could he have gotten into the samples shortly before you fed this AM? If so, maybe he wasn't hungry at breakfast time. What will these tests show?
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they are doing tests for various pancreatic functions - here is the website http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays - I also ordered a test (have no idea of it's accuracy - my vet friend will probably laugh at me) that supposedly can tell what animal proteins he is allergic to and thus what foods to stay away from https://immuneiq.com Not sure any of this will help me get him on a diet that is good for his diabetes and that he will eat :nailbiting: When is Colin scheduled for his tests?
 
Hi, Carol - Was just reading through this thread ... and have all of my fingers & toes crossed in hopes that these tests will provide some good, clear answers about Murphy's GI problems --- so that you can find some solutions that will help him to eat for you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Robin&BB said:
Hi, Carol - Was just reading through this thread ... and have all of my fingers & toes crossed in hopes that these tests will provide some good, clear answers about Murphy's GI problems --- so that you can find some solutions that will help him to eat for you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks Robin - I wish I would feel optimistic but at least I hope to get some idea of what I am dealing with. I also really hope I don't end up having to make his food and touch that meat (yuck) - not that he would eat that!
 
Carol & Murphy said:
I also really hope I don't end up having to make his food and touch that meat (yuck) - not that he would eat that!
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Oh, I know what you mean, Carol. When I had to roast those whole organic chickens for our sick dog, I literally had to force myself not to gag when handling that raw meat ... there's just something about it that really grosses me out! So I just kept making myself concentrate on it being something that was really good for her; that's the only thing that enabled me to keep on doing it.:rolleyes:
 
Carol & Murphy said:
they are doing tests for various pancreatic functions - here is the website http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays - I also ordered a test (have no idea of it's accuracy - my vet friend will probably laugh at me) that supposedly can tell what animal proteins he is allergic to and thus what foods to stay away from https://immuneiq.com Not sure any of this will help me get him on a diet that is good for his diabetes and that he will eat :nailbiting: When is Colin scheduled for his tests?
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When will you know the results? The allergy testing is interesting. It seems like I remember someone on L&LL having it done. I'll see if I can find the link. They only run the Acro test on Wed. so he has to go in on a Mon. morning. I was planning on this next Mon, but if the weather is good, I'll have to work so it'll be the next Mon.

Found it
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/ot-allergy-test-results-doodles.148577/
 
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Thanks Sharon - I did read through that thread. seems like Doodles is like Murphy, except that he will eat Young Again. Murphy's eating (lack of) habits is becoming more concerning by the day - he ate very little this am, then had to fast until his blood was drawn at 4pm - after that he seemed ravenously hungry so I fed him some bonita flakes and freeze dried chicken to tide him over until feeding time - by then (1 hr) he didn't want to eat anything - I brought out all the dry food (5 different kinds) plus baby food and tiki cat tuna and he would go over like he wants to eat, but doesn't I gave him more cerenia and appetite stimulant and he is eating small amounts 1 hr later. I'm going to give him SQ fluids and maybe some pain meds tonight but doesn't really seem like he is in pain - just won't eat - maybe nauseated. I could use some advice on how to dose him in these sort of situations - I gave him 2.75 tonight in the hopes he will eat more, but I don't know what I am doing. Anyone? @Robin&BB @Sue and Oliver (GA) @Rachel ?
 
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Oh Murphy:banghead:! Seems like I read that as long as they eat a tablespoon to go ahead with the shot. Hopefully someone who knows for sure will chime in. When Colin had his dental I gave a half shot(2.5u) with no food.

When will you get the test results?
 
Sharon14 said:
Oh Murphy:banghead:! Seems like I read that as long as they eat a tablespoon to go ahead with the shot. Hopefully someone who knows for sure will chime in. When Colin had his dental I gave a half shot(2.5u) with no food.

When will you get the test results?
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Not sure - not until next week sometime I am sure especially with the holiday
 
@Carol & Murphy -
I'm not sure if it will be helpful to you or not, but I came across something today when I was looking through the forums for some nutritional advice for someone else on Facebook. If you look in the Health/FAQ forum and go down, oh maybe 30 posts, there is s title about LIVER SHAKE. There's a recipe there, and I guess it works to get cats eating when nothing else will.

Sending you and Murphy hugs! :bighug:
 
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Cara and Wynken said:
@Carol & Murphy -
I'm not sure if it will be helpful to you or not, but I came across something today when I was looking through the forums for some nutritional advice for someone else on Facebook. If you look in the Health/FAQ forum and go down, oh maybe 30 posts, there is s title about LIVER SHAKE. There's a recipe there, and I guess it works to get cats eating when nothing else will.

Sending you and Murphy hugs! :bighug:
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thanks I do remember seeing that liver shake a long time ago - I just looked it up - yuck - but I will try it tomorrow!! let's hope it works
 
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Carol & Murphy said:
thanks I do remember seeing that liver shake a long time ago - I am definitely going to look it up He still hardly ate anything - appetite stimulants not working very well I feel so sad because I don't see anything really helping him and I don't really know how long things can go on this way :(
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I wish I could come there and make it FOR him while you just relax and commune with him. :joyful:

Try to not be anxious or worried around him, especially... (OMG, yes I know what I'm saying)... It's SO HARD. I spent several weeks in November and early December not paying much attention to Wynken because I have a hyperthyroid Kidney-disease girl (Andrea) who suddenly had heart failure after a dental to remove a very bad tooth. I thought I was going to lose her... I decided I would hold the plate for her, and offerred about seventy-eleven kinds of food.... So I know where you are at. :nailbiting:

Little by little we got out of all that (she still needs meds and has an iffy appetite). But the whole reason I am telling this story is that at some point, I decided to be like a cheerleader for her... I would kind of *announce* the food and tell her it was a surprise! And then I would let her smell it, but pull it away a little and kiss her head and tell her she was a Magnificent Eater! Then offer it again and praise her no matter how much she chose to eat... This may not work with Murphy, but I wanted to share what worked for Andrea... When I showed up with the plate I could see she was getting excited about the impending love-fest she knew she was about to get with her food. The other thing that I think helped is that I offerred food often, but after she was "done" (even if she didn't eat!) I took it away. I read somewhere a long time ago that smelling food nearby actually depresses a cats appetite, and you need to let the appetite build in the absence of food (never more than about 12 hours, and maybe as few as 3 or 4 hours). Then when they smell it, after a hiatus, it has a chance of kicking the appetite in.

I just want to help... Maybe all of this is not helpful for yours and Murphy's situation...? Please continue to update us! :cat:
 
Cara and Wynken said:
I wish I could come there and make it FOR him while you just relax and commune with him. :joyful:

Try to not be anxious or worried around him, especially... (OMG, yes I know what I'm saying)... It's SO HARD. I spent several weeks in November and early December not paying much attention to Wynken because I have a hyperthyroid Kidney-disease girl (Andrea) who suddenly had heart failure after a dental to remove a very bad tooth. I thought I was going to lose her... I decided I would hold the plate for her, and offerred about seventy-eleven kinds of food.... So I know where you are at. :nailbiting:

Little by little we got out of all that (she still needs meds and has an iffy appetite). But the whole reason I am telling this story is that at some point, I decided to be like a cheerleader for her... I would kind of *announce* the food and tell her it was a surprise! And then I would let her smell it, but pull it away a little and kiss her head and tell her she was a Magnificent Eater! Then offer it again and praise her no matter how much she chose to eat... This may not work with Murphy, but I wanted to share what worked for Andrea... When I showed up with the plate I could see she was getting excited about the impending love-fest she knew she was about to get with her food. The other thing that I think helped is that I offerred food often, but after she was "done" (even if she didn't eat!) I took it away. I read somewhere a long time ago that smelling food nearby actually depresses a cats appetite, and you need to let the appetite build in the absence of food (never more than about 12 hours, and maybe as few as 3 or 4 hours). Then when they smell it, after a hiatus, it has a chance of kicking the appetite in.

I just want to help... Maybe all of this is not helpful for yours and Murphy's situation...? Please continue to update us! :cat:
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Cara - great, great tips - I was leaving the food by him so I definitely won't do that anymore My problem now is that I don't know how much he will end up eating so I don't know how to dose him. Nothing scarier than having him go hypo without an appetite
 
Baby steps... I hope you can entice him with SOMETHING after his nose has rested from smelling the food. I hope it work as well with him as it has with several of my kitties.... :bighug:
 
What I have heard, Carol, is that as long as he has eaten more than a tablespoon, give insulin, but less than you might normally. So maybe cut back by 0.5? His numbers have been running higher so I would think that would be safe.
 
Yep, I agree. Still want to get some insulin into him, and a slight reduction is a good safety precaution.
 
Ah, Carol, I am so sorry that you are still wrestling with Murphy's appetite. One thing I remember reading a while back is that when they are high, (like Murphy) they sometimes don't want to eat because they feel so yucky, so getting enough insulin in them to help the numbers come down so they feel better is important. I agree that as long as they take in at least 1 tbsp. of food, shoot your dose. After the onset of the insulin, perhaps you could offer him the food again and maybe he will be more interested. Fingers and Paws crossed. I can only imagine how upsetting this is. Wish I could make the food for you. :bighug:
 
I feel guilty about me getting upset about Rupert being such a chow hound now, it is nothing compared to what you are going through Carol. :( You are doing everything you can, well, except the raw meat thing, ugh, can't blame you there. lol It will be interesting to see Murphy's test results, maybe you will get some much needed answers. We are all pulling for you and Murphy, sending lots of food vines your way. You have probably tried this, but was wondering if you have boiled up white meat chicken to add to his food, or just the chicken by itself? Best of luck to you and Murphy, you are doing an amazing job with such a difficult situation. Murphy is a lucky boy to have such a dedicated, loving mom. :bighug:
 
Hi Lynn - I have tried giving him human chicken in the past but he has never shown the slightest bit of interest in it - the tiki cat chicken is just like human chicken - I was thinking about trying that tomorrow thanks I am definitely open to any and all ideas
 
I figured as much, but thought it was worth a shot. Another food my sister found that works for a lot of her kitties who are not eating (she has LOTS of kitties) is the cheap, canned chicken. My civvie went through a bout of not eating this year and the boiled chicken did not entice him, but the canned chicken did, which is what she told me to try. Sounds weird, but might be worth a try. Does Murphy like sardines? I know you can't feed him that all the time, but maybe in an emergency situation. Just some food for thought. ;)
 
Thanks Lynn I'm going to the grocery store in a little while for ingredients for the liver shake, and I'll pick up some of the canned chicken as well and sardines- and baby food- although Murphy typically won't eat human food. He's doing better this morning - ate all of his Evo and some tiki cat. He was in a bad mood, turned and hissed while I was injecting him - I ended up sticking myself with the insulin needle deep into my finger joint - ouch!
 
Glad he's feeling better this AM! Yes ouch on sticking yourself(did it once myself!). Good luck with the liver shake, canned chicken and sardines. My cats love sardines, hope Murphy does too.
 
I agree, Carol, sardine eating chickens is weird and funny! lol I had some chickens once and they will eat just about anything, but sardines???? Sharon, I can't help but wonder if it makes their eggs (or meat) taste a little fishy? :p

Good luck with the food run today Carol!
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Thanks Lynn I'm going to the grocery store in a little while for ingredients for the liver shake, and I'll pick up some of the canned chicken as well and sardines- and baby food- although Murphy typically won't eat human food. He's doing better this morning - ate all of his Evo and some tiki cat. He was in a bad mood, turned and hissed while I was injecting him - I ended up sticking myself with the insulin needle deep into my finger joint - ouch!
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Owie! :confused: I have stuck myself, usually when putting on the cap, but never very deep and never in the joint! Bet that is sore! :bighug:
 
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