MT CAT "MOM-MOM"S BG LEVELS

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Mom-Mom

Mom-Mom

Member Since 2014
Every day is a surprise for me with her. She was "hi" this morning, as usual. Its usually that, although yesterday was very intense day because we started the day off with BG level of 49, then temporary blindness followed and it was VERY DRAMATIC day.Thanks to the good people over at Pfizer who make xanax. LOL I also only gave her 1Unit this morning as well. I was at 2 then 1.5 now 1. After reviewing her chart, should I drop it again for the p.m shot and go on with .50 instead if 1.00 for now anyway????? Any advice???
 
Laura

When cats actually have a symptomatic hypo like Mom-Mom did yesterday, they can become very sensitive to insulin for a while. In your Health condos Saturday afternoon and yesterday, members were strongly urging you to drop the dose to 0.25u and in
TODAY'S HEALTH THREAD, Dyana even left you a depiction of what that looks like and reminded you to drop the dose. I'm not sure why you keep shooting 1u which could be dangerous for Mom-Mom especially since you were out of strips.

We are all happy to help you but our number one goal is keeping kitties safe. If it means a few extra cycles in high numbers until we can figure out what is going on, then that is much better and safer than having her too low.
 
I agree completely with Marje.

Cats don't stay at one dose on insulin. Things change in their bodies, and while 2.0 might have been a dose that worked for her before, it's too much now. 1.0u is also too much now.

Please reduce to 0.25u tonight, regardless of how high her numbers are, and hold that dose for now.

If you haven't re-read through your other posts, it would be a good idea. people have given you lots of explanations on why she's having high numbers now and why she needs less insulin.
 
I Thank all of you for your input and I am very grateful for it. I did not "ignore" anyone's suggestions. I don't know if I told everyone but last night, it was early maybe 6 or 6:30 and I went to my basement to exercise. I was only down there for 45 minutes or so, but, when I came back up my computer was blank. I'm not sure what happened but I tried to restart it and absolutely nothing worked. I left it plugged in all night and just prayed that it would be O.K in the morning. Actually, it did go in & out for about an hour or so but, I had to print out return labels for someone and I recorded the final blood sugar level and plugged it in and was out like a light in 5 minutes. The entire day yesterday was so "dramatic" to say the least. This morning the computer was fine. I did read every post for me today and even printed out a few things. I didn't get a chance to read that post about the dose last night or I DEFINATELY would have reduced it more. Actually I was in a panic because my new strips were supposed 2 be here by now, and they weren't shipped until yesterday. I will change it to 0.25 tonight and until further notice. Do you think she will have a different reading in the morning, other than "hi". I sure hope so..
 
I totally understand about last night but I'm not clear on why you didn't reduce this morning. Dyana's post to you was at 7 a.m. your time and I believe you shoot at 8? Did you shoot early today and after you got her post?
 
No your right I didnt shoot until 8 but I am just barely keepin my head above water now. I am doing the very best that I can. To top it off, I have always been petrified of needles. Then I have this (soon to be ex) making accusations because I am on the computer 24/7 it seems like. I wouldn't be surprised if he had something to do with my "mystery computer virus". You have no idea what my life is right now. I really do appreciate each and every one of you. Believe it or not, you are the ONLY people who are involved with this diabetes with me. Before I joined this group, I was in this totally by myself. My husband wouldn't even help me with the cat AT ALL. He still doesn't. I will shoot 0.25 tonight though
 
I just checked my posts and Julie,who agreed with Dyana & Sienne told me yesterday to keep it at 1.00 so I thought I was doing the right thing. I am just so confused
 
it was Friday that we suggested dropping to 1.0 units.

Saturday morning was when you had the 25 and she was blinded with the hypo. You also said you only had a few strips left at that point - that was when we said to drop to 0.25u and hold there.

No worries - part of the confusion is because you're posting both here and on Main Health. I know I don't go to Main Health to check unless someone flags a post as someone needing help with Lantus or Lev. There's more than enough to keep most of us busy just focused on L users here. If you keep posting here, it'll be less confusing. All of us here use Lantus or Lev and people won't suggest dose changes to you unless they are confident.

We're suggesting the 0.25u dose for a couple of reasons. One is because she had a symptomatic hypo and might be more sensitive to insulin than she was before. Another reason is because you haven't got a lot of strips, and if she goes low you might need more strips than you have. We think that the drop from 1.0 to 0.25u will be significant enough that she won't drop too low again.

It doesn't mean we're certain about it, because cats are all different, but it means that we *think* that's not going to overdose her right now. You still have to monitor her.
 
She started out hi, went to 285 at 11:30, then 374 at 3:00, now shes 436 at 6pm. She doesn't get her shot until 8pm. Should I still go down to 0.25????
 
yup. 0.25u.

she's so high because she went so low. it's possible that she might remain high until tuesday morning - that's about as long as a "bounce" from being low would last. but the bounce can end earlier and when she clears it, you don't want her to have 1.0u of insulin in her.

really - this is the right thing to do. shoot on time and give 0.25u.
 
i will test again right before the shot ans post it. Anyone let me know if you don't agree with it and why. Otherwise I am going into this blind, have no clue. My little mom-mom's life is my #1 priority. With all this help I am getting, we are gonna beat this disease. Thanks to all of you
 
don't worry - you don't have to understand it at this point. we understand it and will hold your hand and tell you what's going on. the decisions are always yours, but we'll try to explain why we're suggesting whatever we suggest.

the first few weeks with a diabetic cat are like a crash course at the college level. but you will get it and it does get easier once you understand what's happening in her body.

how many strips do you have now?
 
laura, i'm going to go get some stuff done now, but i'll be back to check for your preshot # at 8pm your time. i feel 99% confident we're going to say stay at 0.25u even if it's a high number.

in any case, there are several of us looking out for you now. :YMHUG: you're in good company. you can relax now.
 
Hi Laura,

My name is Shelly, and my cat's name is Jersey. Welcome to Lantus Land! I just wanted to say that you've been getting some great advice from the experienced users here. Julie and Marje have helped me a lot, and Jersey is now doing great. Please trust them, and follow their advice. If you'll look at Jersey's ss - especially when we first started Lantus - you'll see some low numbers followed by several days of high numbers. That's what you're seeing with some of Mom-Mom's numbers. Mom-Mom hits a low number, which causes her liver to panic. Her liver starts thinking, "Oh, no, we're gonna die from that low number," and it releases lots of extra blood sugar that keeps her numbers high for several days. When Mom-Mom drops below 50, the liver should panic. That's getting into dangerous territory where she could die, so the liver is trying to protect her by producing lots of extra blood sugar. Unfortunately, the liver can't do that forever, and if you keep Mom-Mom on the same dose (the one that dropped her below 50), her liver may not be able to produce enough blood sugar to protect her anymore. It is so much better to start low and gradually work your way up. That's what we had to do with Jersey, and that was the only way we could keep her safe.

Be patient and take it slow! :YMHUG:
Shelly
 
Laura

I agree that we need to stick with that 0.25u dose. Let's let those counterregulatory hormones clear out and see where she is. I've seen other instances like this where kitty went into the 20s and then was really high for several cycles and then came right down into green. Take a look at Tucker's SS. It took him 8.5 cycles to clear out the hormones and then he never looked back. I thought an example might help :-D

Obviously, we don't know if Mom Mom will do this but it's a reason to wait it out and see where she is when the bounce clears.
 
Hi Laura!

Wanted to pop in and say welcome as well!

I agree with Shelly. Look at people's spreadsheets, if and when you get a chance. You'll see Cobb was in high numbers for a long time. He is a high dose cat, which it looks like Mom-Mom won't be. :smile: But you can see there are times he dropped low and then went sky high. This past week his liver is finally adjusting and you aren't seeing those jumps anymore. But it has taken us 5 months since joining to see that progress.

Listen to Mom-Mom when she goes low. She's saying, "too much insulin!" Stick with what the advisers here are saying. They are VERY knowledgeable and helpful. And Julie is right...the first few weeks are a crash course and can be a blur!

I'm sorry you don't have support at home. I had an ex that would have insisted on us putting Cobb down if this had happened when we were together. I know this is an incredibly stressful time for you with that, and then Mom-Mom on top of it. Just take a deep breath. With everything that us going on, it's better for Mom-Mom to be higher than you want versus too low, especially since she had a symptomatic hypo. How scary for you!

You're doing great. The understanding will come in time. Trust that the advisers here are concerned about one thing only: Mom-Mom's safety and well being!

Whatever questions you have, ask as many times as you need to until you understand!

~Suzanne
 
Hi Laura

Just checking in really quick to see how it's going. Were you able to pick up the strips that BJ sent to Wal=Mart? I hope so :-D

How's Mom-Mom feeling today? Any symptoms remaining of the low numbers? Is her sight totally returned?

I think Julie might be back around this evening but I probably won't be; I'm not sure if Wendy/Neko will have a chance to pop in and check on you all. I just had a moment to check in and see how it's going.

I did want to tell you that you did a great job getting her SS set up and filling it in!
 
Today I was unable to give Mom-mom her shot until 10 a.m. Her dose has been newly changed from 1.00 to 0.25. I use Lantus and its a 12 hour dose right?? So does she now have a new dose time or should I stick with the original time of 8am and 8pm? What should I do? She was at 447 at 10am , which is still hi but better than the "hi" reading I get 8 out of 10 mornings.
 
Hi Laura,

Dosing is based on a 12-12 schedule, so you would need to give your kitty her evening shot at 10:00 p.m. since her morning shot was at 10:00 a.m. Some of the more experienced users on here can help you work back to your original schedule.

Shelly
 
Hi Laura.
To answer your question, yes, Lantus should be given as close to every 12 hours as possible. If you check her BGs at +11 (9:00pm your time), and if she is still HI, then you can shoot one hour earlier. Go ahead and check her BGs at +10 (at 8:00pm) and post that number. Maybe, just maybe, it will be advised to shoot 2 hours early, but just to let you know because Lantus is a depot insulin, an early shot is like a dose increase and if you shoot early, you would need to get some extra tests in tonight.
Lets see what others say, first before you make a decision. Others may have different opinions than mine.
 
Mom-Mom said:
Today, I was unable to give Mom-mom her shot until 10 a.m. Her dose has been newly changed from 1.00 to 0.25. I use Lantus and its a 12 hour dose right?? So does she now have a new dose time or should I stick with the original time of 8am and 8pm? What should I do? She was at 447 at 10am , which is still hi but better than the "hi" reading I get 8 out of 10 mornings.
Click to expand...

We shoot Lantus on 12 hour schedules because we know that each dose overlaps the previous one. We call this the depot or shed.
We want the amount of overlap to be very consistent.
When you shoot sooner, there is more overlap and it acts like a dose increase.
When you shoot later, there is less overlap and it acts like a dose decrease.

We shift time schedules by either 15 minutes per shot, or by 30 minutes per day, depending on how sensitive the cat is to insulin, and our schedules. Mom-Mom seems pretty sensitive to me, so I wouldn't shoot early by more than 15 minutes per shot.
 
OK I just did a check at 7:30 (no shot until 9:45a) she was 267 which is the best reading in the am I have gotten in a LONG LONG time. Then each time will be a 15 minute prior until I get back to 8am. I get tired so early, I had a hell of a time staying awake last night until 10pm. Thank You all for the advice. I really appreciate it soooo much
 
Mom-Mom said:
...she was 267 which is the best reading in the am I have gotten in a LONG LONG time.
Click to expand...

Yay - a 267! She's starting to settle out of those high numbers...
(I know this is tough on you at the moment, Laura, but it will get easier. Really.)
 
Mom-mom's dose was regulated to 0.25. I have to shoot right now abd she is 416. should I still stay at 0.25?
 
Mom-mom's dose was regulated to 0.25. I have to shoot right now abd she is 416. should I still stay at 0.25? Please let me know, otherwise I will assume to do the 0.25
 
Mom-mom's dose was regulated to 0.25. I have to shoot right now abd she is 416. should I still stay at 0.25? Please let me know, otherwise I will assume to do the 0.25
 
Mom-mom's dose was regulated to 0.25. I have to shoot right now abd she is 416. should I still stay at 0.25? Please let me know, otherwise I will assume to do the 0.25
 
Laura, the message board is having some issues this morning, so you REALLY need to have the "How to handle low numbers" printed out in case it's needed.


YES, give the .25 this morning

You MUST "Edit" your first post of the day and add the 911 icon if you want people to see it when skimming the board for people who need help. That FIRST post is the one we see
 
Im OK for now. she actually went down already from 416 at 9am to 384 at 10am. I have so much housework to do anyway. I can get through if I really needed to. I'm happy with the insulin amount change.
 
Note: responding to text message from Laura:

"374 mg/dL is high, but not an emergency.
Lantus builds up slowly and wears off slowly - 3 to 5 days to stabilize after a dose change
You've got to be patient and wait for it to work.
Also, the glucose level may be bouncing from going low yesterday, and this takes up to 3 days to clear.
I will copy this response into FDMB."
 
Thanks BJM for doing that post for me. So I did her 1pm test its 202. I don t wanna talk too soon but just maybeshes getting there
 
Each successive 12 hour period, for the next 5 shots (6 shots total or 3 full days), should get better and better as the Lantus stabilizes on the 0.25 unit dose.

Because she seems sensitive to the Lantus, continue testing in that +5 to +7 hours after a shot to monitor how low she is going. You want her to stay above 50 mg/dL for safety.

If she goes lower than 50 mg/dL, it is an automatic dose reduction. I'm sure you're wondering how we woud do that. We actually figure out how many unifom sized drops we can squeeze out of syringe filled to 0.5 units by carefully twisting the plunger. You practice until you can get the same number of uniform drops every time. Use an old syringe and colored water to practice.

When you get a chance, pick up a can or two of high carb food, like Fancy Feast Gravy lovers. Cats tend to like that better than syrup mixed into the food, which makes handling low numbers easier.
 
That is a very nice number. Each day may get a smidge lower. As long as she stays above 50 mg/dL at her lowest, she is doing great.

Keep up the good work.
 
I was happy to see that. I cant deal with anything bad today, I am in so much pain. And my feelings are so hurt because my little girl just keeps going under the bed. She is scared of me because of all the pokes.
 
Hi Laura,

Please do check before you give the next shot that Mom-Mom's blood glucose is rising (and isn't still falling), and that the number is high enough for you to give the shot.
For example, we often suggest here that newcomers to feline diabetes don't give insulin at a BG of less than 200.
If in doubt please ask. We're here for you.

You're doing great with Mom-Mom.

(((Hugs))),

Eliz
 
Mom-Mom said:
...She is scared of me because of all the pokes.
Click to expand...

A dab of Neosporin ointment with pain relief a couple minutes before testing, when wiped off when you test can reduce the annoyance of testing.

Always give a low-carb treat or toy or desirable activity after testing to reward the cat for letting you do it.
 
I have never been more confused. Is this the "bounce" still? shes a 547 @ +10 ??? How can that be? She has a loose tooth in the back. Would that have anything to do with it ?
 
just to clarify, it's true the no-shoot less than 200 limit is suggested for the Main Health, but because the long-lasting insulins work differently than some of the other insulins, on the Lantus/Lev forum we suggest that people post here and ask for help if they have a preshot less than 150.

Once you have some data and experience, as long as a person is able to monitor, has strips and high carb supplies, we encourage shoot most of the time numbers over 50ish.

Laura, if you are confronted with a BG at preshot less than 150, don't feed Mom-Mom, then post here and ask for help. we'll have you delay about 20 minutes and retest her to see where her blood sugar is going (up, down or flat.) it's important to not feed at that point.

Otherwise, just keep that 0.25u dose no matter how high her numbers are. really. :-D
 
So I will check again before her shot at 9pm. She is barely eating or drinking because she has ANOTHER bad tooth.he already lost both of her top 2 fangs. I am gonna call this vet down the street. I cant take her back to the other vet ever again, she will have a heart attack. What are my choices? She was fine all day. Last night after her pm shot she stayed in the 300 range. I guess this is the " bounce" ??
 
we have seen many times that a bad tooth will keep a cat from going off of insulin. so . . . that may be what's keeping her from going off. it's not that the tooth causes the diabetes, but an infection can be enough to keep a cat from getting regulated.

if you can get her tooth taken care of you might see some good progress for her.

yes, you're seeing another bounce. she's not used to the good numbers yet. it's going to take a little bit of time.
 
Pain is a form of stress and stress raises glucose levels.

The sooner you get that tooth taken care of, the better. I am concerned she may not be eating enough from the pain. That can result in excessive fat breakdown for calories. That released fat. Can overwhelm the liver and cause a condition called hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver). That mucks up digestin so badly, the cat can need hospitalization and may not survive.
 
I got a 224 this morning ay 730am but at 430am it was 283. I guess this bounce is over? i sure hope so Im in poor health today WITH soar fingers so it takes me FOREVER to type
 
Use a folded square of toilet tissue to protect your fingers when testing. I fold one in 8ths and it keeps me from having puncture fingertips.
 
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