? mr b's rollercoaster

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I think Kris is right. He has underlying issues which make his big picture seem so frustrating and complex. And drive you - rightfully- crazy. Remember that breathing thing. You are doing the very best you can and he has made strides along with those setbacks. A slow, steady increase has improved his levels before. It most likely will again, just keep after that moving target.

I know we have suggested it before, but maybe make a list for your health as well as his. Walks, breathing, time out with people - whatever relaxes you. You are keeping him safe. Make some time for you!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I think you're up against his hyperthyroidism making him insulin resistant. I suggest you keep moving up methodically so you accumulate data in the 5+ unit range where you keep it simple and dose only every 12 hours and you hold a dose for several cycles. When you were at that dose level before you were trying a different dosing regimen and it might have jumbled him up.
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Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I think Kris is right. He has underlying issues which make his big picture seem so frustrating and complex. And drive you - rightfully- crazy. Remember that breathing thing. You are doing the very best you can and he has made strides along with those setbacks. A slow, steady increase has improved his levels before. It most likely will again, just keep after that moving target.

I know we have suggested it before, but maybe make a list for your health as well as his. Walks, breathing, time out with people - whatever relaxes you. You are keeping him safe. Make some time for you!
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Thank you both. I'm hanging in there. Had a good cry last night. Trying to be kinder to myself. Its not easy. I just want to see him feeling better. He's my little buddy. You know how it is.

Doingg a curve today. Might tell us something new.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Thank you both. I'm hanging in there. Had a good cry last night. Trying to be kinder to myself. Its not easy. I just want to see him feeling better. He's my little buddy. You know how it is.

Doingg a curve today. Might tell us something new.
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I completely understand, Jen. Yes, be kinder to yourself - you're doing everything you can to help him.
 
Curve shows we're going back up after barely getting a yellow and its only +8. He will surely be in the 400's by +12, again.

Its not like he went anywhere near a healthy number that might freak him out into a bounce.

I know his thyroid may be to blame for all the crap luck we've had getting him regulated over a year now but i keep looking for a pattern, a way to at least get him into a better range of numbers.

Ideas anyone about today and how to proceed? I was hoping to do 12/12 but maybe i need to dose earlier. Clearly the insulin is wearing off as we speak.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Curve shows we're going back up after barely getting a yellow and its only +8. He will surely be in the 400's by +12, again.

Its not like he went anywhere near a healthy number that might freak him out into a bounce.

I know his thyroid may be to blame for all the crap luck we've had getting him regulated over a year now but i keep looking for a pattern, a way to at least get him into a better range of numbers.

Ideas anyone about today and how to proceed? I was hoping to do 12/12 but maybe i need to dose earlier. Clearly the insulin is wearing off as we speak.
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I say stay the course and wait until +12 to give him 4.8 again. Your goal is to get into higher dose levels very systematically. I don't know if you've seen another cat on the ProZinc forum called Satan (Chuck). He didn't budge much out of high numbers until he was in the 5.4 u+ range.
 
Looked at the curve data again and if it finishes up as it began, it's a pretty typical PZI smile curve with definite +6 nadir that's obviously lower than PS. If it was some random curve I'd say decent response but dose needs to increase.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I say stay the course and wait until +12 to give him 4.8 again. Your goal is to get into higher dose levels very systematically. I don't know if you've seen another cat on the ProZinc forum called Satan (Chuck). He didn't budge much out of high numbers until he was in the 5.4 u+ range.
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Thanks for that kris. I stayed the course. Mr b surprised me by hovering! I actually for a minute wondered if maybe i should lower tonights dose but i didnt.

Will see what the next 2 cycles bring on this dose.

Yes i have looked at satans ss and he boggles me just as much as mr b!
 
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Misterbeesmom said:
Thanks for that kris. I stayed the course. Mr b surprised me by hovering! I actually for a minute wondered if maybe i should lower tonights dose but i didnt.

Will see what the next 2 cycles bring on this dose.

Yes i have looked at satans ss and he boggles me just as much as mr b!
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Good call to keep the dose. He needs a bit of pressure going forward, as does my guy. Yes, Satan's SS shows that he's a real conundrum. His owner, @StephG, is doing really well trying to head him off at the pass.
 
Our cats must be in cahoots together! :smuggrin:
I've gotten to the point of googling acupuncture and acupressure for cats! Didn't find much that I think would help. I'm desperate to help him. I've tried to get him to exercise more but he's skinny on top of all this so we can't do too much. He needs to put weight back on- muscle and fat.
 
StephG said:
Our cats must be in cahoots together! :smuggrin:
I've gotten to the point of googling acupuncture and acupressure for cats! Didn't find much that I think would help. I'm desperate to help him. I've tried to get him to exercise more but he's skinny on top of all this so we can't do too much. He needs to put weight back on- muscle and fat.
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Its so awful isnt it! We tried acupuncture but it had no obvious results. I wont poopoo it though, as i'm sure some cats benefit, and i've had it myself to good results.

Its a wild ride this diabetes!
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Its so awful isnt it! We tried acupuncture but it had no obvious results. I wont poopoo it though, as i'm sure some cats benefit, and i've had it myself to good results.

Its a wild ride this diabetes!
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Stick with the plan, Jen. He did well yesterday, all things considered. I certainly don't poo poo acupuncture because I go once a month and find it to be supremely relaxing.
 
For all three of you - in the challenging group - it is great that you can support each other. And try to keep the big picture in mind - you are doing the very best you can. The first time I heard this, I had such an AHA moment: These kitties have no idea they are sick and causing you such stress. They think they have a great life - lots of attention, great snacks and food, a soft lap and warm place to sleep. I am positive they think they have all the important things in life.
 
Jen, I'm thrilled to see those yellows from yesterday. Your systematic approach is paying off slowly but surely. I see a note in your SS that you don't understand the reds. They're bounce numbers. Mr. B. is a somewhat bouncy cat but nothing to rival Hermione, Chuck, Phoebe or Teasel and I certainly don't mean to minimize the stress/worry it causes you. Your challenge with him I think is to carefully find the dose that will counteract his thyroid and kidney interference. And there is a dose range that will do that.
 
Thank u. I have guarded optimism.

He has been restless lately which is making it hard to celebrate these better numbers. I dont know whats bothering him. I dont know if he might be in pain or uncomfortable or what. I hate having to bring him to vet again but might have to. He's not really sleeping much, not taking long naps. He often looks distracted. Im worn out. Dont even want to get out of bed. I just keep crying.
 
You've mentioned arthritis in your signature. Do you treat it? My mom's old guy (16) does much better when he's on pain meds.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
We've tried adequan which was hard to tell if it helped or not. Dasuquin didnt seem to do anything. What dors your mom use?
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Just checked with her. It's gabapentin 50 mg/mL of liquid and she gives 1 mL BID with food. So it's a pain killer (usually used in people for neuropathic pain) and not a joint supplement like Adequan. Her guy is also hyperthyroid and has methimezole for that AND he's on "kitty Prozac" for anxiety induced hair pulling. "Special needs" kitty ... :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Just checked with her. It's gabapentin 50 mg/mL of liquid and she gives 1 mL BID with food. So it's a pain killer (usually used in people for neuropathic pain) and not a joint supplement like Adequan. Her guy is also hyperthyroid and has methimezole for that AND he's on "kitty Prozac" for anxiety induced hair pulling. "Special need kitty ... :)
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Thanks. We had used gabapentin earlier this year. Again it was hard to tell if it helped, and he had a lot going on, had a lot of mysterious facial twitching. We went to neruologist and all. What a nightmare waste of time.

Turns out the twitching only went away after we stopped lantus

Its hard knowing whats wrong and what might have helped in the past but was masked by something else. Maybe we can try gaba again and see.

Its confusing to me that this behavior has kicked up just within the past few days. Always when i anticipate he should be feeling better with better numbers but instead he acts less happy, less comfortable, less relaxed.

Maybe its the purina dm food, which i started to see if it would somehow help his bg, and because i wanted to prove to the vet that no it doesnt help and to get her to shut up about damned useless prescription food. Dm has artificial crap in it, because you know artificial stuff is so good for animals (sarcasm), and is full of chicken of course (cheap meat). Well chicken in the past made his ears and face itchy, so he hadnt eaten it in years until he got diabetic and we went on rx food (hills md which of course is awful for diabetics).

Anyhoo i've stopped the dm, which means he'll probably get constipated again. Its just fun all around here.

If he doesnt act better soon, i'll be dishing out more money and putting him through more tests. Sickening,
 
I've read about lantus causing twitching and hyperaesthesia is some cats. Teasel and his sister are both prone to attacks of hyperaesthesia, his sister more so. When Teasel was on Lantus it didn't seem to be any worse. His sister also has to eat hypoallergenic cat food or she breaks out in nasty looking crusty lumps on her face.

I'm sure you've tried pumpkin for constipation. Any positive effect? My mom's old guy also needs that to keep him functioning.

Might not hurt to give the gabapentin a short trial again without lantus to cloud the picture. Some people switched to levemir because of the issues with lantus and found it helped a lot. I'll bet the last thing you want to think about is another insulin ...
 
I copied this from another thread. It was in a post by a person who had a kitty with IAA and acromegaly:
" There is a dose for every cat that starts to move their numbers" @Wendy&Neko
Those two conditions have a huge impact on dosing as you know. You'll find the dose that starts moving Mr. B.'s numbers, Jen.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I've read about lantus causing twitching and hyperaesthesia is some cats. Teasel and his sister are both prone to attacks of hyperaesthesia, his sister more so. When Teasel was on Lantus it didn't seem to be any worse. His sister also has to eat hypoallergenic cat food or she breaks out in nasty looking crusty lumps on her face.

I'm sure you've tried pumpkin for constipation. Any positive effect? My mom's old guy also needs that to keep him functioning.

Might not hurt to give the gabapentin a short trial again without lantus to cloud the picture. Some people switched to levemir because of the issues with lantus and found it helped a lot. I'll bet the last thing you want to think about is another insulin ...
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Our internet service was out for 24 hrs. Catching up now.

Mr b is peeing and drinking an awful lot today and seems off. More off than usual. Talked with vet to seee if subq fluids might be a good idea. She said cant hurt. I'm holding off on gaba for the moment. Dropped off urine sample to see if proteins there. Vet isnt so sure now about the early kidney disease that the other vet said. The urine should clear that up.

I dont think he'll eat pumpkin. I think we've tried that before.

Not a great day.
 
I mix the pumpkin in my cats food. Works like a charm...they have no idea it's there and poops seem to be bigger these days. Worth a shot?
 
Rachel said:
I mix the pumpkin in my cats food. Works like a charm...they have no idea it's there and poops seem to be bigger these days. Worth a shot?
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How do you keep the pumpkin from going bad before using the whole can? How much do you use each meal? Thanks
 
I put a can lid on it and keep it in the fridge. I haven't noticed any problems with it. I mean, I keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't look or smell funky, but no problems so far.

I give about 1/4 tsp twice a day (just add it to each meal). However, I use it just to bulk up poops so you may want to ask on Health about constipation doses for it.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Complicated ...
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We're going to see the vet today. He's been staring into space, pupils seem more dilated than they should be, this along with all other problems. Still drinking and peeing tons, hanging out at the water bowls. had that rotten red last night. I'd test him now but we're at +10 so its kinda late anyways. I cant believe how hard we've tried to help him only to see him get worse. Its a nightmare. He's not a happy boy.
 
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Odd - staring into space with dilated pupils is often a sign of hypo. I'm so sorry this is so difficult, Jen. Let us know what the vet says.
 
So sorry to hear he's feeling poorly Jen. Will be sending healing vines all day. Update us when you can.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Odd - staring into space with dilated pupils is often a sign of hypo.
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Strangely enough I was on the right track with this, Jen. I missed the drama because I was out at an appointment this morning. I see that Mogs gave you excellent guidance. Yes, a dose decrease tonight but not too large a decrease because you're getting some traction right now. The 99 was scary low compared to Mr. B.'s usual numbers but not generally regarded as hypo. However, he might well be extra sensitive to low BG. I think two things are in order:
1. dose decrease to 4.8 u or 4.6 u if that's more comfortable for you;
2. frequent testing today, this evening and tomorrow if you can be at home.

The 5 u dose might be that glass floor breakthrough I've mentioned before. If so, he'll be more insulin sensitive going forward. The low today might also make him more sensitive. His numbers could be erratic in magnitude and timing in this transition phase. Mr. B. isn't a huge bouncer and that's a good thing.

This is really good but stressful at the same time. Test often and post. You need a full picture of what's happening.
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
Strangely enough I was on the right track with this, Jen. I missed the drama because I was out at an appointment this morning. I see that Mogs gave you excellent guidance. Yes, a dose decrease tonight but not too large a decrease because you're getting some traction right now. The 99 was scary low compared to Mr. B.'s usual numbers but not generally regarded as hypo. However, he might well be extra sensitive to low BG. I think two things are in order:
1. dose decrease to 4.8 u or 4.6 u if that's more comfortable for you;
2. frequent testing today, this evening and tomorrow if you can be at home.

The 5 u dose might be that glass floor breakthrough I've mentioned before. If so, he'll be more insulin sensitive going forward. The low today might also make him more sensitive. His numbers could be erratic in magnitude and timing in this transition phase. Mr. B. isn't a huge bouncer and that's a good thing.

This is really good but stressful at the same time. Test often and post. You need a full picture of what's happening.
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Thanks! I understand what you're saying. What a day. I'm wiped.

I was looking back through mr b's journal and his mood seemed best when he was on 4u. I know that might seem unreliable, but even looking at the numbers at that time for some reason i failed to get mid range readings. Maybe i'm being an idiot but i'm tempted to drop down to 4u. His nadirs might have been good at that dose we dont know, plus it wa right after i did that wacky 8/8/8 dosing so he was recovering from that at the time.

I dont know. I want to take your experienced advice but i also want to go with my notes on his mood at 4u. Due for shot in an hour. I can test tonight but tomorrow is out.

You were on track with that hypo reference! He wasnt hypo but he was feeling like he was, i think. And indeed he might have gone hypo, and/or his body was dumping glucose to keep him from going hypo. At least now we have more info and i know what that looks like.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Thanks! I understand what you're saying. What a day. I'm wiped.

I was looking back through mr b's journal and his mood seemed best when he was on 4u. I know that might seem unreliable, but even looking at the numbers at that time for some reason i failed to get mid range readings. Maybe i'm being an idiot but i'm tempted to drop down to 4u.

I dont know. I want to take your experienced advice but i also want to go with my notes on his mood at 4u. Due for shot in an hour. I can test tonight but tomorrow is out.

You were on track with that hypo reference! He wasnt hypo but he was feeling like he was, i think. And indeed he might have gone hypo, and/or his body was dumping glucose to keep him from going hypo. At least now we have more info and i know what that looks like.
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By all means go with 4 u. You have to feel comfortable with what you're doing. If the numbers are higher than you like tomorrow, you can slowly increase from there. It could be that 4 u will give a bigger drop than before because of his low number today. Don't give up hope!! :smuggrin:
 
Saw that black on your SS. Now THAT'S a bounce!! He doesn't usually go this high so it seems that the low BG was quite a jolt to his system. This doesn't mean he won't be insulin sensitive tomorrow - be on the lookout for that. This is all new for you so data is essential.
 
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