More information please.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cherie Hogan

Cherie Hogan

Member Since 2016
I have been getting lots of encouragement from all of you but I am wondering how long your cats looked miserable and sat in a zombie like state day after day before they improved. Riley seems to be getting worse. You all say it's a long road. How long? The quality of life for my cat is gone. He doesn't know what is happening to him except he is constantly being poked and injected. I have thought all along that I could help him but he is descending into a shell. I am wondering if Lantus even works for him. Did any of your cats go through this? How long will it take for him to get better? What am I doing wrong? Is the damage that's been done to him permanent? When do I give up?
 
Hi All,
Cherie is really needing some help with this. I'm going to add some questions she had in the hopes that done of the pros and more seasoned vets can help her and Riley get some answers
Cherie Hogan said:
I posted earlier about Riley's behavior and how he looks which is bad. He had one day of low numbers and now is going back up. I have seen zero improvement in his behavior. He is laying on the floor and just looks sick. Please look at his numbers and tell me what to do.

Before, when he looked this way, we took him completely off the insulin and he improved for a couple of days and then crashed. But he looks like he is dying...lethargic and miserable. I am thinking of slowly reducing down and trying to get him so he at least looks alive.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Cherie Hogan said:
Ok, I am not getting any response on this. I think I am going to switch Riley to PZI as a last chance for him. The Lantus is making him sick and miserable. I want to start reducing. Can I get help here on how to make the switch?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I need some experienced eyes as this is out of my skills set..

I will say Hang in there Cherie, this is a really tough part of this dance, the holding a dose long enough to really see what it is capable of.. he sounds like he is bouncing off of his lower numbers but I'm not sure. I am going to link a condo thread with explanations @Marje and Gracie posted for another member, they really explained why you see this going back up that looks like he's not improving with this insulin dance
Check them out and see if you think some of it might be what Riley is doing..while we wait for the Calvary to arrive:bighug:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/1-12-ozzy-amps-283-3-240-pmps-316.171231/

Hugs, I know this is such a hard dance:bighug::bighug: try not to let despair get the jump on you if you can:bighug: tall order I know, sorry:bighug:
Will check out his SS now while hopefully you check out that link...
 
Cherie

It is possible he's not feeling well because of the extreme ups and downs that are occurring. I've had friends with Diabetes and they say that being 300 at one test and 80 several hours later really makes them feel crummy.

Based on the way his SS looks, I believe he's going lower somewhere...likely after you quit testing st night when he's still coming down but also probably during the day. He might not be going that low but he's going low enough to send him up into the 500s.

You sent several of us a PM asking about PZI. While I don't think that he has a problem with Lantus, it might be that PZI will work better with your job demands as you can shoot the preshot more than you can with Lantus. Although dosing consistency works with PZI, you have a bit more latitude to change the dose depending on the PS.

Also, if you want to switch him to PZI, you might want to post on the PZI insulin support group of FDMB and ask them about a recommended starting dose. I have never used PZI and so I am not comfortable making dose recommendations.

But you still have to manage his diabetes which requires some testing and also food management, based on his numbers that we can see.

If you feel he is not well, he should see a vet but insofar as the Diabetes, I don't think it's the insulin. I think it's the ups and downs.

Edited to add: while you hold the syringe and can determine what dose you want to shoot, I would suggest you not reduce the dose at this point. I think it's worthwhile to try and run some curves this weekend so we can see what he's doing. He's going lower but is he going low? I don't know. If he's bouncing off the blue numbers, he probably needs more insulin. But he could be getting into green and taking a hard bounce.

Until his liver gets used to lower numbers, he's going to bounce. Also, as long as he might be taking large drops down, he's going to bounce.
 
Last edited:
Ok Cherie, I'm going to post what you wrote just the other day:bighug: here is my reason..many times in this because the positive changes can be there abpnd then seemingly gone, they are easy to lose track of as we struggle with the backward jigs and jogs... I too needed reminding at times that Gussie had some good days where I could see improvement..
Remember, we are not talking a quick fix medicine, we are dealing with hormones and hormone changes always take the body time to readjust to and sort out..when I got impatient I had to remind myself it's not an antibiotic, it's a hormone..helped me to be patient..
Here Riley was having a good day:
Cherie Hogan said:
Yes, he is finally making some progress. His appetite and peeing is almost normal again. But can you tell me how you keep your cat's ears from getting sore from all those pokes? I am using Neosporen to help him.
Click to expand...
Hang on to that, it shows you that it is not all bad, and reminds you that as you are pushing his numbers down he is getting benefit and feeling and acting better..yes they go back up as his body is not used to lower numbers, that is so common it even has an official name, bouncing, and so yes, the symptoms will come and go with his number fluctuations, that's true and logical, BUT as he learns that lower numbers are normal he will spend more time there hopefully..and with lower numbers he will feel and act better:bighug:
Sending hugs:bighug:its really hard not to be able to fix what is ailing our cats right away, if we could we would in a heartbeat:bighug::bighug: the trick is to force ourselves to look for the half full pieces when all we see is that half empty glass:bighug::bighug: Def not an easy assignment:bighug::bighug:
 
Cherie, i dont have all the experience here that most have... i am still pretty new to this myself... but that said Lincoln was diagnosed almost 2 years ago... for a year and a half i listened to my vet and increased up to 6u on Lantus slowly... when that wasnt getting the numbers my vet wanted to see he told me he had never had a patient over 6u and didnt feel safe going above that

i bought my bg monitor that day... and i changed his whole diet and reduced him back to 3u... still it took me 2 more months to join this forum and start gaining the wealth of knowledge that is available here

Lincoln wouldnt cuddle... he would just hang out in the dining room under the table... some days he would even hiss at me for walking near him... since i started testing him he knows when its time to test and purrs.. its taken a few months but his behaviour and attitude is so different, when he feels good he is relaxed, he actually looks for cuddles and wants to hang out...

Like you i have issues seeing his improvement in the beginning... a friend of mine is really great with SS and actually added a daily average column to my World Tab on the left side... so that i could actually see that little by little his numbers were getting better

And then like magic we hit his dose! and you can see it... when we hit 7u he started going so green and blue i thought some days that i was dreaming... he has since started earning reductions... and after taking a slightly too big reduction we are having some pinks again and bounces again... this last week hasnt been easy seeing him back in those numbers... i thought we were past the bounces and days in the pink.... and he definitely isnt the relaxed cat that he is when he hits the blues and greens, but we are getting close again and i can see it and feel it...

I dont know if any of this is going to help... i just want you to know i have felt that feeling of not making headway against this disease... we all have... it is frustrating and heartbreaking.. there are days that i dont even want to post his numbers cause again he is bouncing and i feel like i have failed him somehow.. but the friends i have made here check in on us and i know i check in on them... as bad as this disease is the support group i have here has made it a lot easier.. knowing others are up and feeling and going through what i am

They were diabetic long enough that their little bodies learned the higher numbers were there new normal
Every time we push that boundary lower closer to normal they have to relearn that its normal... and their little livers kick in trying to save them when really they are in no danger
But eventually you will find his number... he will start becoming himself more and more... and when you hit the right number you will be surprised how fast the numbers change on the SS

Dont give up on Riley... dont be so hard on yourself... you will find that number... you will break through the glucose toxicity.. you will see a change in Riley and it will be for the better... you just need to keep working the increases and testing... i know if i hadn't taken control of his treatment and listened to the knowledge here Lincoln would still be miserable and feeling crummy... but because of home testing and the learning i have done he has a better quality of life now then before...

Riley just needs time... patience is the hardest part of this disease... i am absolutely guilty for not being patient... please give him and yourself some more time and work the dose increases... the L&L family is here and the more you post the more you will feel that ... i hope some of this helps :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thank you so much Lantus folks. I use ProZinc but read all the forums and these messages for Cherie made me feel a lot better. I understand all those feelings of helplessness and frustration and ineptitude. :bighug:

Cherie - if you want more info about ProZinc, come on over to our forum and ask about anything. :)
 
just want to add that you might want to try different foods. If you are feeding the same one over and over, they definitely lose
interest. It's good to have a few to rotate, especially since the food companies change formulas so often and suddenly the one
you like to get disappears.


Have you had any diagnostic tests done to see if there is another reason for feeling so crummy? Ultrasound?


Cats with higher numbers do take a bit longer to find the right dose....
the high numbers really make them feel yucky and lethargic.
Afterall, the body isn't getting the nutrition it needs from the food they eat. Usually they are hungry all the time when the numbers are
high so the appetite issue may be not liking the food so much or that something else is in the mix.
 
He is eating well. I feed a combination of Friskies pate, Fancy Feast pate, Special Kitty pate, 9 lives pate, and leave down Young Again Zero Carb kibble. The Young Again helps with his constipation and appetite plus he doesn't howl so much. His feet are encased in crusty litter and require cleaning every day. He regards me as the enemy. Today looked at me as I gave him his shot and started howling after I put him on the floor. He is consistently in the 500's, no matter the dose, only had two days since I started testing 2 months ago where he was under 200. At some point, hope becomes despair, and quality of life becomes an issue. My cat's face is shape-changing and he is miserable. I feel if he wasn't so healthy before, his body would have given out on him by now. With no consistent pattern except high numbers, I am wondering what the heck, EXACTLY, is Lantus doing for him? In the meantime, I am told to keep going UP on the dosing. I look at it this way; I got sick a year ago, had to go to the hospital for tests and was prescribed two very heavy duty antibiotics. Two doses into the 30 dose regimen, I couldn't lift my head up, had a massive headache, metallic taste in my mouth and could only crawl across the floor. Despite the doctor's advice that I could die if I didn't continue taking the medicine, I stopped completely and began taking massive doses of vitamin c. Within three days I was good as new. I look at Riley that way. He has been howling and miserable for almost five months with no relief. I just am not sold on dose increases when the data just doesn't seem to back it up although I will continue in that direction if that is what you all think I should do. I keep hearing about these perfect numbers if I can find the right dose. How do I know the right dose isn't way less than what he is getting now?
 
Cherie Hogan said:
How do I know the right dose isn't way less than what he is getting now?
Click to expand...
I looked at your SS and you were shooting 0.5U (much less than current dose) and still had high #'s.

Without looking back at your previous condos, what other tests/labs have been done? Can you post those?
 
I hear your agony in your post Cherie:bighug::bighug::bighug:i am SO sorry:bighug::bighug:
Not to freak you out but there is a recall on some Special Kitty and 9Lives, you might check the list and see if his is on there
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-special-kitty-list-has-been-expanded.170702/
Perhaps food might be part of it..

I don't know where Rileys magic dose will be, but know from reading lots and lots and lots of condos here he is not alone in his journey and how he feels..nor are you:bighug:

Lots of cats here are working their way up and down in the dosing trying to find that magic number..some way up, others moving downward..each cat moves at their own pace which is hard if yours is one moving up rather than down....I looked at lots of spreadsheets too, especially folks whose cats were bouncing and those starting to work the insulin, I needed to see in some actual numbers what that looked like. I also looked for cats that had some numbers that were moving, if you read that a cats pancreas has started working, look at that spreadsheet, see how the numbers wobbled, climbed and dipped and then started trending downward as the dose was adjusted, held and tweaked....

To answer your question, The only way to know if the dose is right for Riley or needs adjusting is to get enough tests in. What tells you what is the magic right dose for Riley is the answer to the question, what number is the lowest he goes in his cycle?

The right dose is tailored to affect that number but if we don't know what that is because there is not enough data to know, it is kind of a guessing game as to how to adjust and folks here won't do that to you, they won't recommend anything if they are not able to know it's a safe recommendation. Does that make any sense?

Each person here has to make peace with what this takes and what they can and can not do..what they feel is right for their cat..none of us can make that decision for you, it is yours and Rileys.:bighug:

All we can really do is offer support and try to help you find that magic hiding dose but it's not an easy ride getting there..no sugar coating that:bighug:

When Riley's numbers dropped he felt better, that makes me tend to agree that his high numbers are a big part of feeling so crummy..the caked on litter on his paws could be because the urine from cats with high numbers is really sticky..it was actually one of the first things I noticed with Gussie, huge sticky giant balls of litter..

When Gus started moving into lower numbers that stickiness went away..

I agree with others, post often, find and avail yourself of the incredible support and fellowship here. It is made up of many many of us who are in a unique position to totally understand and share your frustration, confusion and yes at times despair in a way folks not going thru this will never get.

There is also laughter and joy here, those are so essential too, and healing for us as the caregivers of our cats thru this.

We are here if you need us:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
i see an improvement in your SS.... end of last year it was mostly black and red... i am now seeing more pink and red with flashes of blue and black... i think the flashes of black now are bounces from being in the blue or from the FS.....

like you i was worried i had missed the right dose... but the people here that can read the SSs told me to keep going forward and i am so happy i listened....i dont think you have missed your dose... i think seeing those blues that you might be closer then you think... you have only been on the forum for a little while... i learned more on the forum and saw more improvement in Lincoln in the last 2+ months of joining...i can actually look at his SS now and pinpoint when i joined and start seeing changes in him after that date... in both bg numbers and him around the house

and Leslie is correct... we are rooting for Riley and for you... hang in there :bighug::bighug:
 
Cherie, reading your posts makes my heart hurt for you and your kitty. I am still new here and learning the ropes and trying to heal my kitty, too. He never was in reds or black and I was such a stressed out worried mama, so I can only imagine how much heartache you are feeling over your kitty's high numbers. I am too new to give any type of dosing advice or guidance in general, but I just wanted to drop in and let you know I am thinking of you and your kitty and sending well wishes your way. I'm really hopeful your kitty starts showing some real improvement here soon and also starts to feel more like himself. My kitty went into DKA at the end of November (that's how we found out he was diabetic) and it was heartbreaking to see him so weak and lethargic, so I know exactly how you feel. Please stay positive and know kitty still loves you, just isn't feeling the best right now. Big HUGS from Ozzy and me to you and your little one. Please hang in there!!:bighug::bighug:

Capture5.PNG
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top