Monday deeper in the blue than Sunday.
- Thread starter Sev
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Sev
Very Active Member
Ok here is the deal.
I tested Kitty about 1/2 and hour prior to the vet drawing blood.
+1 was 165. Ketty tested prior to the vets @159.
The apointment was @ 8:AM. I tested @ 7:42. They drew the blood @ 8:10AM
The vets blood test came out to 165!!
This is almost 14 hours after his last 1.25 units.
I accidentally told them I was giving Kitty 1.75 units. The vet wants to boost to 2.0 units.
However I just called them with the correct information and am waiting to see if there is going to be a change.
They are insisting that they cant move forward until they see how Kitty does at 2.0. The vets have been treating for over 40 years. So I dont doubt the knowledge base. However I dont know why they need the bench mark for Kitty to be at 2 units. Am I missing something???
Oh and they dont want me testing kitty.
I tested Kitty about 1/2 and hour prior to the vet drawing blood.
+1 was 165. Ketty tested prior to the vets @159.
The apointment was @ 8:AM. I tested @ 7:42. They drew the blood @ 8:10AM
The vets blood test came out to 165!!
This is almost 14 hours after his last 1.25 units.
I accidentally told them I was giving Kitty 1.75 units. The vet wants to boost to 2.0 units.
However I just called them with the correct information and am waiting to see if there is going to be a change.
They are insisting that they cant move forward until they see how Kitty does at 2.0. The vets have been treating for over 40 years. So I dont doubt the knowledge base. However I dont know why they need the bench mark for Kitty to be at 2 units. Am I missing something???
Oh and they dont want me testing kitty.
Hope + (((Baby)))GA
Very Active Member
Sev, your vets are out of date and touch. I printed off a whole bunch of info several years ago and gave it to the clinic I was using at that time. The one young vet there told me she had learned more from what I gave her than she had ever learned in vet school.
I cannot believe the amps today. He just may be trying to go OTJ himself. You see the numbers...do you really think your vet is right? Are you willing to stop testing? Bottom line.....if something happens to Kitty, it is not their loss.....it is yours and Kitty. I do not understand those vets.....at all!
I cannot believe the amps today. He just may be trying to go OTJ himself. You see the numbers...do you really think your vet is right? Are you willing to stop testing? Bottom line.....if something happens to Kitty, it is not their loss.....it is yours and Kitty. I do not understand those vets.....at all!
Hope + (((Baby)))GA
Very Active Member
The assistants?????? Are they vets? Is Kitty their cat? Ya know, over time people have some on and said that their vet has treated hundreds of diabetic cats and they never answer when I ask them "how long did any of those cats live? What is your vets survival rate?"
There was also a man that I ended up teaching how to hometest over the phone. He swore by the place he was going to and those vets and they told him at the most his cat would live a year max with FD. I also pointed out to him some of the useless stuff they were making him buy and if he still wanted to give that stuff, then I sent him places where he could save a lot of money. His cat was doing great and then, almost a year to the date of dx, I saw where he had his cat PTS because in his mind the vets told him a year and he got a year. He never wrote that anything was wrong with her.....just that she was PTS.
A young vet where I used to go ended up hypoing a kitty that ended up in ER. Found out he was increasing the Humulin N insulin and had the woman giving her cat 13 units of N b.i.d. I went in with all the protocol, gave it to my main vet at the time and told him he had better teach that young vet more on FD before he kills a cat.
Is there another place you can go to with Kitty or at least set up an appointment and sound out another vet?
There was also a man that I ended up teaching how to hometest over the phone. He swore by the place he was going to and those vets and they told him at the most his cat would live a year max with FD. I also pointed out to him some of the useless stuff they were making him buy and if he still wanted to give that stuff, then I sent him places where he could save a lot of money. His cat was doing great and then, almost a year to the date of dx, I saw where he had his cat PTS because in his mind the vets told him a year and he got a year. He never wrote that anything was wrong with her.....just that she was PTS.
A young vet where I used to go ended up hypoing a kitty that ended up in ER. Found out he was increasing the Humulin N insulin and had the woman giving her cat 13 units of N b.i.d. I went in with all the protocol, gave it to my main vet at the time and told him he had better teach that young vet more on FD before he kills a cat.
Is there another place you can go to with Kitty or at least set up an appointment and sound out another vet?
Hope + (((Baby)))GA
Very Active Member
Great! Remember, you are the client, you are paying them to take good care of Kitty. If you don't like the advice or disagree with it and it may be harmful, you do not have to follow it. You also would not be the first person on this board to be fired by a vet because you either are not following their advice or you are hometesting. Yes, it has happened to others, several members over the years.
Sev
Very Active Member
Hope + (((Baby)))GA said:
One worry I have is that that the other vet does not carry prozinc. I am getting for 98 a bottle. If I get sent into exile that could be the end of that.
The other vet is taking me in at 10:00AM. Interesting enough they have board certification for herbal remedies and internal as well as chiropractic. They have a military vet that did dental on the dogs while on tour.
Hope + (((Baby)))GA
Very Active Member
Sev, the vet can order Prozinc......any vet can. It's a shame that your normal vet is not willing to listen, work with you and give you credit for all the work and research you have done.
Hope + (((Baby)))GA
Very Active Member
Sev, he;s been in the 500's before WITH insulin. Don't worry..he'll get back on track soon enough. Sounds like it worked out well today with the new vet and so glad you went ahead with finding one dancing_cat
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Sev
don't have to wait. You can shoot "early".
don't have to wait. You can shoot "early".
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Yes
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Just to explain what I said earlier while I was at work using my phone, and sent you probably the only "one word" message in my entire history of posting on FDMB!
Once Kitty had passed the 12 hours without a shot threshold, you could have given insulin at any time that you felt comfortable shooting into. In maybe the first 6 hours beyond AMPS, you would shoot a reduced dose (like half normal for instance) and then shot at PMPS. You would have had to probably shot a smaller dose then depending on the number you got. As you got closer and closer to PMPS time, and his number was climbing, you could have just given the normal 1.25 dose an hour or two early. That would have helped keep his number from climbing as high. In the morning, you could have just continued with the normal 6:30 am routine. He might have been a little higher than normal in the morning due to the 14 hours or so time from the early shot tonight until then, but given that he has seemed to have longer duration from a dose lately, it might not have been a higher than normal AMPS.
Prozince isn't as dependent on the strict 12/12 hour schedule as one of the "L" insulin types. Most cats don't get 12 hours from a dose. I think their website says duration can be 8-12 hours, ECID. Kitty seems to get 12 or more, at least lately. Longer duration can be a sign that the dose is too high. So can a big drop in BG at nadir. It's all "ECID" as well. Confusing, but you can "fiddle" with times and doses with Prozinc a little bit when needed. Of course, the more constant you can keep things, the more logic you will get from your SS and the numbers. But there is some flexibility there once you know what a certain dose does with a specific cat.
No way could I have typed all that on my phone......I'd still be typing!
Carl
Once Kitty had passed the 12 hours without a shot threshold, you could have given insulin at any time that you felt comfortable shooting into. In maybe the first 6 hours beyond AMPS, you would shoot a reduced dose (like half normal for instance) and then shot at PMPS. You would have had to probably shot a smaller dose then depending on the number you got. As you got closer and closer to PMPS time, and his number was climbing, you could have just given the normal 1.25 dose an hour or two early. That would have helped keep his number from climbing as high. In the morning, you could have just continued with the normal 6:30 am routine. He might have been a little higher than normal in the morning due to the 14 hours or so time from the early shot tonight until then, but given that he has seemed to have longer duration from a dose lately, it might not have been a higher than normal AMPS.
Prozince isn't as dependent on the strict 12/12 hour schedule as one of the "L" insulin types. Most cats don't get 12 hours from a dose. I think their website says duration can be 8-12 hours, ECID. Kitty seems to get 12 or more, at least lately. Longer duration can be a sign that the dose is too high. So can a big drop in BG at nadir. It's all "ECID" as well. Confusing, but you can "fiddle" with times and doses with Prozinc a little bit when needed. Of course, the more constant you can keep things, the more logic you will get from your SS and the numbers. But there is some flexibility there once you know what a certain dose does with a specific cat.
No way could I have typed all that on my phone......I'd still be typing!
Carl
Sev
Very Active Member
carlinsc said:
Thanks Carl.
I'll get the hang of it. I thought about giving him .5 when I got home from the vets. That was at 1:30. However I was not sure what would have happened with the overlap @ 6:30. Trying err on the side of caution.
Its looking like he is going to have a long duration tonight.
Not sure what I should do in the morning if he is near 200. I cant be around all day tomorrow to watch him.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
If he's down near 200 in the AM, I'd definitely cut back on the dose. Last time he went green on that dose, and that was after a pretty big bump the first couple of hours (12/10). 12/11, same thing, but without the bump in the first couple of hours that he saw the day before. That 193 is the same as the 201 from the day before, and yesterday was even more exciting. I'd drop to 1.0 or even .75 if you can't be around between +5 and +7.
Carl
Carl
Hope + (((Baby)))GA
Very Active Member
Good choice to feed him right now. I'd also cut that dose.....max.75 unit if just over 200 and you can't be around during the day. If he is in the mid to high 100 range, I wouldn't shoot anymore than .5 if you shoot at all. He's drops too much every hour right now.
Hope + (((Baby)))GA
Very Active Member
No, doubt it is rebound. Is there anything he could have gotten into? Even cereal? Maybe poking in his mouth created a more active infection? Here I was worried he might go too low today with you gone :roll:
Hope + (((Baby)))GA
Very Active Member
It is a fast rise but he also can do a fast down. I dealt with one woman and her kitty that ran like this. Got the mouth taken care of and this cat would go down too low to shoot, next cycle way high, drove us crazy for a week or two and then just like then he went OTJ. It was like the pancreas couldn't make up its mind. We will never know why Kitty did this today but sure will be glad when his dental is done. Just chalk it down to a bad start today and see what the rest of the day brings.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Sev said:
This number was due to no shot the prior cycle, right?
Then it isn't "rebound". Rebound is caused by long term overdoses of insulin. It can be chronic or acute.
This AMPS is the natural reaction to not having insulin for 24 hours. It isn't rebound or a bounce or anything. It's just from having no insulin on board. His pancreas decided to take a night off at the same time apparently.
Carl
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