Modererate Ketones

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Bobbie And Bubba

Bobbie And Bubba

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After the one urine test came back from the vet's with a +3 Ketone, she asked me to get a ketone test in yesterday and I got one after he ate dinner and it came back Moderate. Yikes. I am to call her today with his BG and the ketone results. I raised him from 2.6 to-2.8. The test before last I got on him was apparently not good as I did not know how long the urine was on the saran wrap. This time I emptied the box and use noabsorb beads. (apparently the ketones can evaporate)

He is eating great (always hungry!) Peeing like a race horse, drinking lots of water (and I add to his food) and otherwise seems normal except his numbers won't come down. This makes me very nervous and now I know why he's continuing to lose weight. Is there anything else I can do?
 
Hi Bobbie - how are things today? If he were mine, even if he didn't have the ketones, I think I would definitely feed him more calories - this is where the Young Again is your friend one cup = 600 calories the pathophysiology of DKA or development of ketones (I used to know) is about the body using alternative energy sources for food - give it plenty of calories from his food
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Hi Bobbie - how are things today? If he were mine, even if he didn't have the ketones, I think I would definitely feed him more calories - this is where the Young Again is your friend one cup = 600 calories the pathophysiology of DKA or development of ketones (I used to know) is about the body using alternative energy sources for food - give it plenty of calories from his food
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I did give him 6 oz last night and this morning. Today, I will give him a mid day snack also. It has me a bit scared.
 
@Sharon14 - I too wish our cats could talk - so many cats here come and go into remission - we can't even get ours regulated I'm going to have to cut way way back on testing Murphy - his ears are a mess and he means business when he bites Poor little guy - this is so unlike him (to bite)
 
I just started giving him calories based 18 lbs last night. Which is 313 calories but I actually gave him 345 calories yesterday, plus he had about 3/4 of a mouse........whatever those calories are. How much of the dry again should I supplement him with?
 
Good morning Carol. I understand about cutting back on testing, many days I don't test Colin much. He's ok with it, I just can't handle seeing the numbers. I hope Murphy's ears heal enough and he regains his sweet attitude at testing time. How is he otherwise?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I just started giving him calories based 18 lbs last night. Which is 313 calories but I actually gave him 345 calories yesterday, plus he had about 3/4 of a mouse........whatever those calories are. How much of the dry again should I supplement him with?
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Bobbie - I don't know but if you are giving him 350 calories a day that is a good start - I'm just saying that YA is 600 calories/cup so even a little bit (1/8 cup) = 75 calories and you can go down from there
 
Sharon14 said:
Good morning Carol. I understand about cutting back on testing, many days I don't test Colin much. He's ok with it, I just can't handle seeing the numbers. I hope Murphy's ears heal enough and he regains his sweet attitude at testing time. How is he otherwise?
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well, I wouldn't say he is ever the sweetest of cats :cat: but he's pretty mellow and tolerant (used to be) except when he gets riled up he's ok - I think he's getting a hairball I learned a lesson the other night after the threw up 3x right before eating - not to test BG just then - it was >600 He did the same thing last night, but I waited about 45 minutes to test him and BG back down in pinks Is Colin feeling all right though? Is he friends with the other cats?
 
All the other cats like Colin. He's just sleeping more and when I open the kibble container for the other cats, he used to perk up, hopeful. He just keeps sleeping now. He comes when I call him for his test and for food and he eats plenty, but numbers are high and don't come down even after his shot. Makes me wonder if something is going on. I getting so tired of this...
 
Sharon14 said:
All the other cats like Colin. He's just sleeping more and when I open the kibble container for the other cats, he used to perk up, hopeful. He just keeps sleeping now. He comes when I call him for his test and for food and he eats plenty, but numbers are high and don't come down even after his shot. Makes me wonder if something is going on. I getting so tired of this...
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I know exactly what you mean. I'm coming to terms with my new life of never going anywhere again and keep a hefty supply of augmentin for all the bites I will get from him Isn't your vet working with you on possible insulin resistance?
 
Last time I was bit bad, it was on my finger-not a good place-my friend recommended Vetericyn. We use it on all our animals, cats, dogs, chickens and horses. I hesitated because it's an animal med, but my friend swore by it and I tried it, it worked great! I healed up so fast, I was amazed. I've since read lots of people use it on themselves.
http://vetericyn.com. I use it on Colin's ears once and awhile.
 
Sharon14 said:
Last time I was bit bad, it was on my finger-not a good place-my friend recommended Vetericyn. We use it on all our animals, cats, dogs, chickens and horses. I hesitated because it's an animal med, but my friend swore by it and I tried it, it worked great! I healed up so fast, I was amazed. I've since read lots of people use it on themselves.
http://vetericyn.com. I use it on Colin's ears once and awhile.
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With the cat bites on the finger, is the infection going into the bone the concern?
 
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I'll have to try the vetericyn Thanks for the tip cat bites are notoriously nasty (more so than dog bites) and very prone to cause infections due to the presence of a bacteria in cats' mouths called pasturella multocida -
Sharon - I don't blame you for feeling down now & then but Colin seems to doing ok although my heart broke when you mentioned that he sleeps through the other cats getting the kibble :(
 
Bobbie, I don't know a lot about ketones...what does the vet say? Did they do a blood test to check for ketones?

Everyone, I know you're feeling down seeing kitties go into remission but not yours. I know how that feels. But don't give up. Everyone is different...I know it's frustrating, but you are all doing such a great job and being excellent beans to your kitties. I truly believe regulation will come. We just have to figure out what they need.
 
Rachel said:
Bobbie, I don't know a lot about ketones...what does the vet say? Did they do a blood test to check for ketones?

Everyone, I know you're feeling down seeing kitties go into remission but not yours. I know how that feels. But don't give up. Everyone is different...I know it's frustrating, but you are all doing such a great job and being excellent beans to your kitties. I truly believe regulation will come. We just have to figure out what they need.
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The vet did two urines. The one is a culture and was sent out and should be back on Friday. The other one showed the ketones at a+3. She told me to get another ketone reading at home and mine last night showed MODERATE. I am waiting for her to call. I have so many questions. He is starving, obviously by the weight he continues to lose. That is one of my questions to her: Should I just feed him as much as he wants right now?

The blood work from the dental was Sept. 2. It might be worth another one as it is almost 3 month. Maybe something will show that will help. Before, I wanted remission, now I will take a regulated cat without ketones. :blackeye:
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
The vet did two urines. The one is a culture and was sent out and should be back on Friday. The other one showed the ketones at a+3. She told me to get another ketone reading at home and mine last night showed MODERATE. I am waiting for her to call. I have so many questions. He is starving, obviously by the weight he continues to lose. That is one of my questions to her: Should I just feed him as much as he wants right now?

The blood work from the dental was Sept. 2. It might be worth another one as it is almost 3 month. Maybe something will show that will help. Before, I wanted remission, now I will take a regulated cat without ketones. :blackeye:
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didn't he have any blood work from the eye surgery? In any case, it seems likely the vet will want more blood work please keep us posted on what the vet says, Bobbie
 
Bobbie,

Wow! So glad you went to the vet and can stay on top of this. Reading through the threads, I saw you asked about my method of collecting the urine. Oliver wouldn't let anyone watch him pee. So we filled a clean litter box with aquarium gravel and left him in a room with it. He'd have to "christen" the box and then we 'd swoop in and get our sample before it was absorbed.

I imagine you've seen this info, but if not:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm

The factors that seem to contribute to DKA are not eating, an infection and ketones. I am so glad he is eating and am assuming the vet tests would catch any infection. You are doing a great job staying on top of this, but I imagine it is nerve wracking.

Thinking about you two.

Sue
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Bobbie,

Wow! So glad you went to the vet and can stay on top of this. Reading through the threads, I saw you asked about my method of collecting the urine. Oliver wouldn't let anyone watch him pee. So we filled a clean litter box with aquarium gravel and left him in a room with it. He'd have to "christen" the box and then we 'd swoop in and get our sample before it was absorbed.

I imagine you've seen this info, but if not:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm

The factors that seem to contribute to DKA are not eating, an infection and ketones. I am so glad he is eating and am assuming the vet tests would catch any infection. You are doing a great job staying on top of this, but I imagine it is nerve wracking.

Thinking about you two.

Sue
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Thanks so much Sue, I am going to get some gravel today. Thanks for checking in and have a great time in Seattle. :bighug:
 
Carol & Murphy said:
didn't he have any blood work from the eye surgery? In any case, it seems likely the vet will want more blood work please keep us posted on what the vet says, Bobbie
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For the eye surgery, they used the blood work from Sept 2 because it was less than 2 months old. I'm thinking some new blood work too. I was reading online that stress and surgery can cause ketones in the urine. And boy has Bubba had his share lately. :banghead: I will keep y'all posted. Fingers and Paws crossed.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
For the eye surgery, they used the blood work from Sept 2 because it was less than 2 months old. I'm thinking some new blood work too. I was reading online that stress and surgery can cause ketones in the urine. And boy has Bubba had his share lately. :banghead: I will keep y'all posted. Fingers and Paws crossed.
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So happy for your blue number!!!! thinking of you and Bubba - seems like the temporal relationship to the surgery is strongly correlated
 
Sounds like he is feeling okay overall. That's good news...I know you have got to be frightened, but you are doing everything you can and everything you should be doing it sounds like. Any idea when the vet is supposed to call?

Hang in there, Bobbie! We're here for you.
 
Rachel said:
Sounds like he is feeling okay overall. That's good news...I know you have got to be frightened, but you are doing everything you can and everything you should be doing it sounds like. Any idea when the vet is supposed to call?

Hang in there, Bobbie! We're here for you.
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Thanks Rachel, I left her a VM @ 8AM EST....hoping she'll call me soon, I will call again if I don't hear from her in the next few hours. Besides ketones being a time bomb, I very concerned about the weight lose and need to know if I should just feed him all he wants and adjust the insulin to that amount of calories.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Bobbie any news
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So, the vet finally called me back. When asked if the ketones could be from the two surgeries, stress, etc, she said not, this is a new development. Ketones can resolve quickly with out infection. She feels this is due to being unregulated and is surprised that he is in the 200's with Ketones. I am to do another ketone test Friday morning and she will be calling me with the urine culture and she thinks if they are still present, we will bump him up to 3 units and perhaps redo blood work since it will be 3 months old on Dec. 2. I am so hoping insulin will start getting into his cells better and resolve the ketone problem. Finger and Paws crossed.
 
I see you increased his dose today and got a blue -that's great! Hope the increase will nip those ketones in the bud! Fingers and paws crossed. Did you talk to her about the weight loss?
 
Sharon14 said:
I see you increased his dose today and got a blue -that's great! Hope the increase will nip those ketones in the bud! Fingers and paws crossed. Did you talk to her about the weight loss?
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Yes, the weight loss is most likely because of the ketones or there could be something else going on, thyroid, infection. .. We will have to see how it plays out. After the surgery, I thought it would get easier. Guess what? NOT! Looks like I am not done spending money....... Thanks for crossing fingers and paws! :bighug:
 
Glad the vet called back! Hopefully the numbers will start coming down and the ketones will resolve! Keep us posted Bobbie...you'll be in my thoughts.
 
On a positive note, Bubba is able to stay home with you while he works through this next issue. Thank you for keeping us updated. We are all worried about you and Bubba. You are tough and so is Bubba. Have a wonderful day tomorrow.
 
Merlin said:
On a positive note, Bubba is able to stay home with you while he works through this next issue. Thank you for keeping us updated. We are all worried about you and Bubba. You are tough and so is Bubba. Have a wonderful day tomorrow.
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We are tough! We aren't done till the fat lady sings! (sorry if that is politically incorrect)
 
Carol & Murphy said:
What did she say about the amount of food and calories?
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She said that he could eat a horse and until the glucose makes it into the cells, he is going to continue to be hungry. :(
She recommended breaking up his calories into 4 meals, which isn't going to happen or how will I find the nadir. I might go for 3 times day though. If the ketones don't resolve and the numbers don't come down, then there is definetley something else going on.
 
Here is Merlin's feeding schedule.

* Fed at AMPS 5:30am
* Fed at 8:30am - 9am
* Fed at noon
* Fed at 3pm
* Fed at PMPS 6pm
* Fed at 9pm

So am not sure if that is being fed 3 X's per day or even 6 X's per day. They are small meals each. So when I test him, I just make sure that he has not had food two hour prior just like the pre-shot tests. That way, his tests are not food influenced. Now sometimes, I have to leave early in the day and again, I just make sure that he doesn't eat two hours prior to his test. So I might test before his 8:30-9:30am feeding (if I am going to be gone) or I will test before his noon feeding. I am able to get his nadir or close to it most of the time. So I think all you have to do is plan on when you are going to feed him. Merlin pretty much gets fed after he gets his test which is his reward.
 
Merlin said:
Here is Merlin's feeding schedule.

* Fed at AMPS 5:30am
* Fed at 8:30am - 9am
* Fed at noon
* Fed at 3pm
* Fed at PMPS 6pm
* Fed at 9pm

So am not sure if that is being fed 3 X's per day or even 6 X's per day. They are small meals each. So when I test him, I just make sure that he has not had food two hour prior just like the pre-shot tests. That way, his tests are not food influenced. Now sometimes, I have to leave early in the day and again, I just make sure that he doesn't eat two hours prior to his test. So I might test before his 8:30-9:30am feeding (if I am going to be gone) or I will test before his noon feeding. I am able to get his nadir or close to it most of the time. So I think all you have to do is plan on when you are going to feed him. Merlin pretty much gets fed after he gets his test which is his reward.
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Thanks for that schedule Cindi, it is actually really helpful as his times to shoot are now 5:30 AM and PM. We got off schedule by 1/2 hour. I will try and see what happens. And with less calories on board at shot time, maybe he will go down more. Fingers and paws crossed.
 
Merlin said:
Here is Merlin's feeding schedule.

* Fed at AMPS 5:30am
* Fed at 8:30am - 9am
* Fed at noon
* Fed at 3pm
* Fed at PMPS 6pm
* Fed at 9pm

So am not sure if that is being fed 3 X's per day or even 6 X's per day. They are small meals each. So when I test him, I just make sure that he has not had food two hour prior just like the pre-shot tests. That way, his tests are not food influenced. Now sometimes, I have to leave early in the day and again, I just make sure that he doesn't eat two hours prior to his test. So I might test before his 8:30-9:30am feeding (if I am going to be gone) or I will test before his noon feeding. I am able to get his nadir or close to it most of the time. So I think all you have to do is plan on when you are going to feed him. Merlin pretty much gets fed after he gets his test which is his reward.
Click to expand...
 
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