Moderate Ketones Help!

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I'm wondering so if I feed him at about 8 am and pm and I normally go to bed about 10/11 I should feed about the same time again during the day and again at night?
 
I suspect when you increase his insulin, he steals more of the other cat's food.

Many of us have luck with using one of those timed feeders to provide a middle of the night meal. You either put frozen food in there or use a feeder that has a cold pack. You could set it to open up at midnight for instance.

Does 10 ounces of food per day maintain his weight? Has he been gaining or losing?

It will be much easier to get him in control if his feeding schedule is consistent and if he can't eat the other cat's food some meals but not others.

10 ounces per day would be a hair less than a 1/2 of a 5.5 ounce can four times per day. That would be well over 300 calories for most foods so is quite a bit of calories. My almost 16 pound cat eats more than that but my average size cat eats less than that.

Also, there are some cats that seem to have inconsistent absorption with Prozinc. We had that problem with Noah and switched to Lantus. It seemed like one day Noah's Prozinc would wear off in 8 hours and the next day it would wear off in 13 hours.

So think about options. Best is probably to used a timed feeder to give him a midnight meal every night.

Try to even out his calories more between meals. And try to keep him from eating the other cat's food.
 
What?! That is genius! I've seen the timed feeders but didn't know how they would work with the wet food. I love the freezing idea! And the ice pack!
I had used a calculator from Nature's Variety...granted that was their website...and it showed he needed about 8 oz to maintain his weight. Is there another way to figure out how many oz he needs to maintain his weight? When he was weighed the other day he was 12.4 lbs so he has gained a tiny bit since he was sick, maybe about a half lb.
I will be looking into a feeder now asap and keep them eating in different rooms as well although I suppose will be a little hard to do with the night feeding, is there a way to get around that at all?
 
Looking at the Wellness website (don't know why I didn't think of this before...) it says 1 can (5.5 oz) per 8 lbs of body weight. So with him being 12 lbs that looks like a can and a half so about 8 oz? Which would put me where Natures Variety brand had recommended as well.
 
I use the broad recommendation of 20-30 calories per pound per day with more active kitties needing calories at the higher end. I have a digital baby scale and weigh my cats to refine that.

Where do your cats hang out at night? Sometimes cats need to be kept separate at night. Easier to keep them out of each others' food dishes when you are at home.

Weight gain is another sign that he may be eating more to increase his sugar.

A 12 pound cat gaining half a pound in a short time is like a 120 pound woman gaining 5 pounds. Of course, when sugar is very high, they don't absorb all those calories. How much did he weigh normally before he got sick?

How long do the kitties take to eat?

I would feed breakfast and dinner and remove the dishes after they are done. I wouldn't let them switch and wouldn't leave dishes down more than an hour. I would let them spend more time with noon and midnight bowls.

Is your second kitty fat?
 
Hine87 said:
What?! That is genius! I've seen the timed feeders but didn't know how they would work with the wet food. I love the freezing idea! And the ice pack!
I had used a calculator from Nature's Variety...granted that was their website...and it showed he needed about 8 oz to maintain his weight. Is there another way to figure out how many oz he needs to maintain his weight? When he was weighed the other day he was 12.4 lbs so he has gained a tiny bit since he was sick, maybe about a half lb.
I will be looking into a feeder now asap and keep them eating in different rooms as well although I suppose will be a little hard to do with the night feeding, is there a way to get around that at all?
Click to expand...

The pets mate 5 feeder is popular. You can put 5 portions a day in it. There is also a 2 2compartment feeder. Another for keeping it cold is when you set it for overnight meal, just put one ice cube right in the food. When it melts it gives a little bit of extra fluid.
 
Normally Jasper is on the bed with me most of the night and my other kitty Jack is usually in the living room. He's been around 12 lbs for the past month but looking back at an old receipt for him he was 14 lbs on March 30th right before he got sick-when the vet switched him over to the 1 unit once a day. On April 4th he was 12.08 and on the 5th he was 12.10 and then on the 18th he was 12.03.

Dependent on the flavor they will either gobble all of the food or they may let it sit out for a while. I've noticed one flavor they do not particularly like so I won't be buying it again and it sat I believe for most of the day before I tossed it out.

Second kitty is not fat-sometimes I wonder if he eats enough actually. He sure doesn't eat as much as Jasper and he has always maintained his weight nicely. He's always been 11 lbs and some odd oz-he's never weighed more or less than that.
 
Woodsywife said:
The pets mate 5 feeder is popular. You can put 5 portions a day in it. There is also a 2 2compartment feeder. Another for keeping it cold is when you set it for overnight meal, just put one ice cube right in the food. When it melts it gives a little bit of extra fluid.
Click to expand...
Thank you! It sure does look appealing and not as expensive as the fancy feed and go that I was eyeballing.
 
Just close the bedroom door at night so you can feed them separately.

What do you think Jasper should weigh? So he went from 12.03 to 12.4 pounds in one week?

Do you know what he weighed a year ago? And do you know what he weighed when diagnosed with diabetes? That was in November, right?
 
JenzyandtheFurkids said:
Just close the bedroom door at night so you can feed them separately.

What do you think Jasper should weigh? So he went from 12.03 to 12.4 pounds in one week?

Do you know what he weighed a year ago? And do you know what he weighed when diagnosed with diabetes? That was in November, right?
Click to expand...

I know the vet, well both vets from here and the one in Japan said that 12 lbs is a good weight for him to be at. Last September he weighed 13.11-he's fluctuated a bit...sadly. All day today and even last night I have kept them separate when they ate to keep an eye on that better until I get an automatic feeder.

Yea he was diagnose November 2014
 
Critter Mom said:
You can actually program the Petsafe 5 for 9 different mealtimes during the 24-hour period. You would need to reload the feeder tray part way through the day but it saves fiddling round with the timer all the time.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

Yea I think for sure I will get a feeder and I was leaning towards this one, just need to wait until payday but I think for sure that it will help with feeding time.
 
aggh I just checked his BG and he's 512!! I don't get it...I was good with making sure they were separated last night for dinner and for their food today. I gave Jasper a 5.5 oz can that he ate for breakfast and lunch. Dinner he had a 3 oz can. Although I do realize I need to make his portions probably a little smaller since I realized after that 3 oz he wouldn't have anything the rest of the night. So I sat out what was left of my other cats food that might be about 3oz. =/
 
Yea he was +3, needing to get to bed but I'll see about staying up a little bit later so I can get one more test in.
 
Just another thought...

Is it possible that your insulin is no good? What brand do you use? Insulin is a biological compound and can and will go bad.
In humans, if we see little response from a shot, one of the first things we do is try a new bottle of insulin.

I would love to see what his sugar is at 4 am.
 
I have ProZinc, that's what I thought last time but I literally just bought new insulin not even a month ago. My last vile I had a couple months but the numbers haven't really changed since getting the new vile. I will go ahead and get that 4AM check as well.
 
ok got updated info but for some reason when I read this last night and when I went to dose him this morning I could have sworn you said 1.75...:banghead::banghead::banghead:
So that is what he got :arghh::arghh: I cannot believe I just didn't recheck to make sure what dose you said to give him.
 
But here's the thing. Your 4 am sugar is 202 and that is a big drop from his preshot number. So he is going to stabilize on less insulin at night.

Do NOT give him more than 1 unit tonight.

Is there some way you can do an overnight sugar curve one of these days?

So... 1 unit tonight unless that changes based on today's numbers.
 
Yea I was surprised to see he was 202, but relieved with seeing a good number!

So go ahead with 1.25 unit in the AM and 1 unit at PM correct?

I should be able to do a curve tonight! I go to school online so other than taking my son to school and picking him up I will be home. Though tired, I know I want Jasper's numbers under control-and he deserves it. I've been doing well with the separate feedings but I know for sure I will invest in the feeders to help out. =)
 
I would increase to 1.5 units tomorrow morning and 1.25 U tomorrow evening.

Tell me about how his feeding schedule is now.

Things are definitely better. Hang in there and keep up with checking sugars. Have you tested ketones lately?
 
Great thank you!!

I have been feeding in the morning at 8-again around noon-than in the evening about 8 and at night normally right before bed. Although tonight I feed him a little early at about 1045

I checked his ketones I believe yesterday it was and he was all good! I will try to catch him tomorrow and get a sample. =)
 
Thank you for the tip! I really think he doesn't like going to the bathroom when I'm around, it is so hard to catch him! Even when the litter box is right next to my office! I swear he waits until I'm busy somewhere else then goes to the bathroom.
 
Updated! Not sure if the dose increase caught his body off guard or that I think he was stressing because he was hungry (a bit early) for lunch.
 
Don't change insulin tomorrow since you aren't sure what is happening.

Does he have any symptoms of being sick at all? Was he really that stressed out?
 
He vomited earlier before lunch-not much of anything but some fur but not enough to consider it a fur ball. But that was it, still good appetite, playing, being his normal self. But of course as soon as I catch him in the box I will get a test done (and he is hydrated, I did check that). He had been for a while although not too much now that he was ripping his fur out, the vet didn't seem at all concerned in trying to figure out why he is doing it. But I really think he does it because he's hungry. So I'm sure he ingested some of that fur.
 
High sugars can cause them to rip out fur. So can thyroid disease, liver disease and skin disease.

Puking can cause stress hormones to rise so sugar goes up.
 
Ok yea now that I think about it I believe I did read somewhere that the numbers can do that. That's probably what it was. I will be keeping an eye on him of course, not too hard since he loves to hang out with me while I work and comes to bed with me at night. =)
 
I wouldn't give no insulin at all for a number like 163. 163 is still a pretty high blood sugar level. It's reasonable to give a little bit less but holding insulin completely means you have to pretty much start all over again. Or maybe there is something I am not aware of? Was he acting strangely?
 
Did you see the note on the side? I did give him 1.25 units when we reached 269 about 30-40 minutes later. He wasn't acting strangely at all so I'm not sure why his numbers were low. I forgot though that food kind of messes up his actual numbers (agh!). I didn't think to dose him at 163 since I've been told to not dose under 200. I will be prepared now! How should I approach his dosing when he is under 200? And at what point should I definitely not dose him? I took him to the vet today (possibly for the last time since it has been recommended to change his vet). And all she ran was a fructosamine-his numbers were a little high-on the low end of the 'high' scale-which was a tiny bit higher than the last time. :banghead:
 
Dewey's sugar is typically 110 when we dose him. The only number I would use to not give any insulin is below about 60. If I have had a big drop in the sugar or if lower than usual, I decrease the dose a bit. We are on Lantus so it's a bit different.

I think you have the same problem I did with protamine zinc. The nadir and duration of action between shots seemed to vary so it was hard to figure out dose changes.

I didn't realize you have the insulin late. I'm on my iPhone and it gives me tunnel vision of the Google sheets.

Remember you want his sugar to ideally be 80-120 so not giving any insulin when it hits 200 makes no sense. I've heard vets say no insulin before 150 but that is usually for the shorter acting insulins. Never heard of withholding protamine zinc at less than 200. Weird.
 
Agh I should have asked about that, since a lot of the times he isn't under 200 at test time I never thought to ask.

Do you think that he may need to switch insulins?

He has definitely been acting fine this whole time and plays a lot more now than he had prior to getting sick in early April. He plays with his mice toys at least a couple times a day!

Is there, I guess a rule of thumb at how much insulin to give under 200? I would be a little nervous about overdosing him.
 
There isn't an exact rule of thumb. But the curves you did don't have much of a nadir then every once in awhile he has a 150 or so point drop on the random testing. Lantus and Levemir are less likely to do this.
 
Oh my! I suppose I need to look into a new vet and a new insulin than! I will work with what I have now while I locate a possible new clinic and make an appt for him.
 
Agh I didn't realize it had been so long since I posted. All is well over here, just updated his SS. I have been swamped with homework now the semester is almost over so trying to hurry and get everything in before the due date along with a large final paper that is due as well.
 
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