Minky newly diagnosed

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minky and diana

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Hi All,
We are into week three of a diagnosis of diabetes for 13 year old Minky. She was peeing and drinking a lot so the vet did a geriatric blood screen following urine tests that showed high glucose levels (26.7). According to the blood tests, all of her organs appear to be functioning normally so we are trying to regulate without insulin. I'm afraid I didn't get a copy of the blood screen so I don't know much more regarding that.
I have spent some time reading up on this disease for cats and went out to buy grain-free cat food. Minky has lived all of her life eating ordinary dry cat food. She won't eat either the dry or wet grain-free food that I bought. After several days of appearing to eat nothing (she does go outside), the vet gave me a sample of dry diabetic Medi Cal cat food. Of course she eats it but I see its ingredients list chicken meal first and corn gluten meal second, soy protein third, then corn. From my reading, cats cannot digest corn or plant based protein well. Is this a good food for her? The guaranteed analysis lists amongst other things crude protein, crude fat and crude fibre--what part of this list represents the carbohydrate (corn) portion in the food?
My understanding is that we shouldn't be feeding our cats grain OR dry food. Where do I go now? Is it possible to convince this cat to eat what I think she should be getting? Should I be continuing with the help-yourself-when-you-are-hungry regime that she is used to or get her on a feeding schedule, considering that she is not getting insulin?
Diana
 
minky and diana said:
Hi All,
We are into week three of a diagnosis of diabetes for 13 year old Minky.
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Welcome :-D


According to the blood tests, all of her organs appear to be functioning normally so we are trying to regulate without insulin. I'm afraid I didn't get a copy of the blood screen so I don't know much more regarding that.
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You can ask the vet for a copy of the bloodwork. Most vets are happy to provide it to you.

Insulin will give the pancrease a break and a chance to heal if there isn't too much damage done. Very few cats can be regulated by diet alone. I suggest trying diet for no more than a week and then start insulin. The sooner you start insulin, the greater the chances of the diabetes going into remission.


I have spent some time reading up on this disease for cats and went out to buy grain-free cat food. Minky has lived all of her life eating ordinary dry cat food. She won't eat either the dry or wet grain-free food that I bought.
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Read this for tips on how to transition your cat to canned food: http://catinfo.org/TipsforTransitioningPDF12-18-09.pdf

Try different brands and textures of foods. Some cats like pate/loaf style, others prefer chunks.

After several days of appearing to eat nothing (she does go outside), the vet gave me a sample of dry diabetic Medi Cal cat food. Of course she eats it but I see its ingredients list chicken meal first and corn gluten meal second, soy protein third, then corn. From my reading, cats cannot digest corn or plant based protein well. Is this a good food for her?
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Nope. No prescription food, dry or canned, is good for your cat (or wallet). There is nothing in prescription food that will help your diabetic cat. The poor quality high carb ingredients only keep the blood glucose levels too high.

The guaranteed analysis lists amongst other things crude protein, crude fat and crude fibre--what part of this list represents the carbohydrate (corn) portion in the food?
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None. You can't calculate carb content using the nutrient analysis on the bag/can. Use the famous food charts located here: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/index.html There are two canned food charts, a dry food chart, and a non-US food chart. The charts list the exact nutritional content of many brands of foods.

Ideally you want to stick with canned foods that have a number 10 or less in the carb column of the food chart.


My understanding is that we shouldn't be feeding our cats grain OR dry food. Where do I go now?
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Feed low carb canned food and/or RAW. http://www.catinfo.org has reasons why dry foods are bad for cats. But if you must, use dry food to slowly transition your cat over to a canned or RAW food diet.

Is it possible to convince this cat to eat what I think she should be getting? Should I be continuing with the help-yourself-when-you-are-hungry regime that she is used to or get her on a feeding schedule, considering that she is not getting insulin?
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Unregulated diabetic cats are always starving because their bodies can't properly use the food the right way. Free feed your cat as much as she wants to eat but not so much that she gains excess weight. Extra weight can prevent good regulation of the diabetes, just like it is for Human diabetics. Many people here use a timed feeder or other method to provide frequent small meals throughout the day.
 
Hi and welcome.

Please read Dr. Lisa's website, she offers lots of tips to transition cats from dry to wet food.

Nutrition/food info

It can be done, it just takes patience and time. And the last thing you want to do with a diabetic cat is to "starve" it, so while it may be frustrating at times, if your cat totally refuses to eat the wet food, you may have to give in and give the dry.

I had these issues transitioning my three cats to wet food. Here's a link to my story about it:

Maui's dry food story

I can tell you that almost one year later, ALL my cats are off the dry food and eating canned and raw food only. I do give them treats - freeze dried, baked, boiled chicken only.

Are you home testing?

If you can get your cat off the dry and onto a low carb (under 10%) wet food, you should see a good drop in BG's. Keep in mind that insulin may still be needed in order to allow the pancreas to heal thoroughly and properly.
 
Hi Diana,

You are right in understanding the reading that it is ideal that a cat be fed a high protein low carb canned diet.

HOWEVER, it is more important that your cat eat.

I fed my Em dry food and gave her insulin for years. It was far from ideal, but she survived and was a happy kitty. When I learned about the food/insulin/health connection (because I had been told by vets that food did not matter) I switched her over and her insulin need dropped dramatically.

Feed Minky what she is used to, and start to transition her over to the food you want to feed her slowly. I find it helps peek my cat's interest in food if I offer it as a treat or maybe even pretend it is forbidden for them to eat.

Cats learn what is acceptable to eat when they are young. If they weren't introduced to different types of food and sample a variety of flavors and what not, they aren't going to recognize new foods as food. Sometimes you just need to put a teaspoon of the new food under her old food simply to help her understand that the smell is associated with food. Just go really slowly and take your cues from her when she is ready to try more of the food.

Connie
 
Welcome! Arnold has been off dry food for 3? days now. Before that we did 1/2 and 1/2 for a while. I can't tell you how many brands and flavors and styles I've already bought! lol I even bought some the other day and took it back the next day b/c I think I figured out that Arnold likes the chunked wet food, not the standard pate/loaf stuff. So far so good but we're still working on it. :lol:
 
Diana,

Hi and Welcome!

I see you have already gotten some great advice, so I'll just add my 2 cents worth. Check out Janet & Binky's list and dump the dry! A species specific diet is so important to cats health, and dry food just doesn't cut it. I noticed that you listed soy as an ingredient in the prescription food. The chicken meal and grains are bad enough, but soy causes allergies and it has NO business being in cat food. As a transition for my cats, I started with a small bag of EVO Chicken and Turkey dry, it was the lowest in carbs (7%) that I could find. I offered only 1/8 cup (because my cats had been on dry all their lives and wanted the crunch) along with one of the EVO varieties of canned. I never finished the bag of dry, and have since eliminated it completely from their diet. When they get a little finicky, I break out the secret weapon....Tuna Juice! It works every time.

Best of Luck
Terri
 
I've never used a message board so hope I'm not confusing the issue with inexperience.
Someone mentioned that a high percentage of diabetic cats are black. Is this true? Minky is black with some white on her. She also has dandruff. It will be interesting to see if that goes away with her new and improved diet.
My vet is not pushing insulin at this point. Some advice on this board indicates that I should request that we go that route now. Of course I want to do what is best for the cat but am unsure if insulin really is necessary. More blood tests first?
Diana
 
minky and diana said:
I've never used a message board so hope I'm not confusing the issue with inexperience.
Someone mentioned that a high percentage of diabetic cats are black. Is this true? Minky is black with some white on her. She also has dandruff. It will be interesting to see if that goes away with her new and improved diet.
My vet is not pushing insulin at this point. Some advice on this board indicates that I should request that we go that route now. Of course I want to do what is best for the cat but am unsure if insulin really is necessary. More blood tests first?
Diana
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What are Minky's BG numbers? How long have you tried a low carb/high protein diet?

I don't know about fur color - my Oscar is orange, his fur has gotten less fluffy, and he has new issues with dandruff too. I am hoping this goes away as well!
 
minky and diana said:
I've never used a message board so hope I'm not confusing the issue with inexperience.
Someone mentioned that a high percentage of diabetic cats are black. Is this true? Minky is black with some white on her. She also has dandruff. It will be interesting to see if that goes away with her new and improved diet.
My vet is not pushing insulin at this point. Some advice on this board indicates that I should request that we go that route now. Of course I want to do what is best for the cat but am unsure if insulin really is necessary. More blood tests first?
Diana
Click to expand...


Diana, while I hope that the diet change helps/works for you, I would urge you to start insulin as soon as possible. If Minky now has dandruff, and didn't in the past, then it seems the diabetes is beginning to stress her system. My cat went undiagnosed for months (despite a vet visit), and it wasn't until she was in full blown DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) that she was finally diagnosed. While I think that diet change is certainly a good idea, I would urge you to not wait much longer before starting insulin.

Best,
Pam & Layla
 
The guaranteed analysis lists amongst other things crude protein, crude fat and crude fibre--what part of this list represents the carbohydrate (corn) portion in the food?
Click to expand...

None. You can't calculate carb content using the nutrient analysis on the bag/can.
Click to expand...

Dr. Lisa has a page on calculating the carb content of canned foods:
http://catinfo.org/commercialcannedfoods.htm
I use it for the foods that are not on J&B's list, and even on those that are, since some haven't been updated in years.
It will give you a rough idea of the carb content. It's not hard, just takes a few times to get it.

My cat was one of the lucky ones that the diet change alone, worked for. If you don't have the ketone urine strips already, please get some, along with a home glucose meter and start hometesting asap. And, as said - get rid of the dry food altogether.
I am curious at the scale of the 26.7 bg result? - Was a fructosamine test done? Do you know about the vet stess raising the bg levels?

Keep reading and learning - you are in the right place - welcome!
 
Welcome to our FDMB family and be patient with yourself. You sound like you really love your cats, so you have come to the perfect place. Get some chocolate, sit back and get ready to read. Also, remember Every Cat Is Different. (ECID) Also, remember opinions may vary sometimes on this board, so you may get different views. Unfortunately, that is human nature.
Sorry this is very long, but there is a lot to say! Also, remember we were ALL newbies once and are feeling just like you are right now! :) OK……..breathe………. :RAHCAT

You do not need any type of prescription food or “special” diabetic food. Use Janet & Binky’s chart for canned food at http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html. . Low carb is best for diabetics. I try to stay around 10% or under. I feed Whiskas, 9-Lives and mostly Friskies canned food. Diabetes is very treatable and does not cost as much as you would think. If you are giving a high dose of insulin and feeding dry, be careful with switching to canned food. You MUST reduce the insulin at the same time you switch to canned food.

Please create a profile if you have not already done so (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=531). It will help us to help you. We need to know what kind of insulin you are on, what needles you are using (U-40 or U-100), what are you feeding, how much insulin you are giving and when, BG test results, etc. There are many people on this board from all over the world, so it will be helpful to know what area and time zone you are in. ~O)

Remember that your cat is YOUR cat, and YOU are paying your VET to help you take care of him; diabetes was probably a day or two worth of notes when the vet was in college; it is probably NOT a day-to-day existence with his own cat trying to maintain a quality of life. Sorry to say, but I would have overdosed my guys on insulin if I followed my vet's advice. Vets, unfortunately are not as knowledgeable as they should be on diabetes.

Sometimes, as I did, you have to take a leap of faith and trust these people on this board who deal with diabetes day in and day out. Trust me. You will not be disappointed. OK………..breathe again……….get some chocolate…….. cat_pet_icon

Also, please realize that it takes insulin about a week to settle. START LOW AND GO SLOW!! The usual starting dose from our experiences is 1u twice a day for at least a week. Insulin in cats is NOT and I repeat NOT based on weight. This is a misconception that a lot of us have gotten from our vets here. pc_work

You have to be patient, as I also had to learn!! Do not adjust the dose upwards based on one test. Don’t freak out based on one test result. As long as the levels stay on the high side, keep the same dose twice a day for at least the initial week period and you should see improvements. When you have some time (hee hee), read my profile doc at http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfqss8sg_1cpgwhbd9 .

If you are not hometesting already, you really need to start!! Hometesting is VERY important. Most of us here use any human meter. Think of it as a human diabetic does. *If it were you or a child of yours, you'd be testing blood glucose levels at home prior to each shot; you'd be working with your doctor to determine a proper dose based on those shot results, correct?* Some vets do not agree with hometesting and I cannot for the life of me understand why. Most vets, sadly are not knowledgeable enough in feline diabetes. Insulin is a VERY powerful drug and you NEED to hometest before giving a shot. This is very important. The vet would rather have you bring the cat to them, stress it out more, which may spike the levels anyway and then they can charge you $$. Hometesting saved me a lot of money and it is VERY important for you personally to know the cat’s levels and how it is reacting to the insulin before you shoot so you do not pass up your ideal dosage.

Thanks to everyone's help here I learned to home test 2 cats and they both got off insulin within 3 weeks with diet change…but of course, they reacting both DIFFERENTLY with the process. If I can do it with 2 cats twice a day (and more on curve days), ANYONE can do it. It does NOT hurt them as much as you think it does. It just stings for a moment and then it is gone, you can try it on yourself. Also, put pressure on the ear after poking and it should minimize the nub. They won't mind it once they start feeling better. I use the True Track meter (CVS or Walgreens brand) which I love. And, the strips are also reasonable. Also, remember to give them a treat after the test. Here is a link to a member videos on hometesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398

I would not feed DRY food if at all possible. Of course, it is better than nothing – you MUST get them to eat if you are giving insulin, but if there is any chance, get them off the dry. I took my guys off dry and within a month they were off insulin. Again, remember that switching from dry to wet can cause a drop in blood sugars, so you MUST reduce insulin at the same time to make sure you are not giving too much insulin. I truly believe also that I saved some of my many others from developing diabetes. I also saved so, so much money changing them all to regular canned cat food.
When Blackie and Jackie got diagnosed, I was afraid to start shots. The people on this board made me realize it was no big deal. (They went on PZI insulin around 3-25-06 and went off on 4-18-06! :) Please also realize that diet plays a BIG, BIG part in insulin needs. I switched my cats off dry food to all wet and I was never so happy. It was a challenge to try to regulate 2 cats at once.


Welcome to the Sugar Dance. flip_cat
Welcome to the Vampire Club.

If I can do it, ANYONE can!!!
It does get easier. Trust us.

You need to test BEFORE you shoot. It usually goes: Test, Feed, Shoot



There's a saying something like "better the sugar level is too high for a day than too low for a minute".
 
Jayne & Sweety said:
The guaranteed analysis lists amongst other things crude protein, crude fat and crude fibre--what part of this list represents the carbohydrate (corn) portion in the food?
Click to expand...

None. You can't calculate carb content using the nutrient analysis on the bag/can.
Click to expand...

Dr. Lisa has a page on calculating the carb content of canned foods:
http://catinfo.org/commercialcannedfoods.htm
I use it for the foods that are not on J&B's list, and even on those that are, since some haven't been updated in years.
It will give you a rough idea of the carb content. It's not hard, just takes a few times to get it.
Click to expand...

If the food in question is not in J&B's list it is likely someone on this board has contacted the company and gotten the correct AF or DM numbers and converted those into how J&B's list presents the numbers. Searching the board [and perhaps even the old board] for those foods or posting if anyone has numbers for those foods should be the first step. Then if no one has the right info the next step should be to read Janet & Binky's FAQ about how to get the right numbers from the manufacture here:
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/foodfaq.html

Using the numbers on the can [the guaranteed analysis] can be "rough" at best and completely misleading at worst. Since diet is a crucial part of diabetic care, it is important to really know what one is feeding their kitty.

And if you get in a real fix and can't figure out how to get the numbers from the manufacturer or convert the numbers they do give you can PM me and I'll be happy to try my best to wrestle them from the manufacturer and get the numbers worked for you in an understandable way.

Diana,
Which grain free foods did you try? There are a number of very good choices out there for diabetic cats. Wellness grain free Chicken and Turkey flavors are popular with many on this board. Also a number of the Merrick flavors are grain free and low in carbs. There are some Fancy Feast flavor that are grain free and I understand the new Purina DM is now grain free.
 
So much information to absorb.
Minky is not receiving insulin at this point. I'm wondering about starting that if she has stopping peeing and drinking non-stop (these were new symptoms that started maybe 6 weeks ago and only lasted about 3 weeks before diet change started), and the blood screen indicated no organ problems. She is now transitioning well to Wellness wet food with beef liver chunks mixed in (I don't intend to continue with the liver once she is happily eating the canned food). She hasn't had any dry food for about three days now.
Would it not make sense to test her perhaps at the end of this week to see what her BG levels are like? I understand that a trip to the vet is stressful and one blood test there is a snap shot, not the whole picture. Would I (she) be better off doing some BG curves at home? I don't think I am in denial. Is it possible to catch this early enough that insulin is not necessary?
Diana
 
Diana

it is great that she is showing improvement!

The thing is, we cannot tell you if the diet change will be enough, and even it it makes big changes at the start, sometimes the pancreas just can't do the work and the cat ends up on insulin anyways. The first thing you can do this week is check her urine for glucose and ketones using ketodiastix....and then get her to the vet for a bg test and fructosamine as well. But if she's showing glucose in her urine, and if her bgs are over 150ish, she needs some insulin to help her pancreas heal. SHe may or may not need insulin permanently...
 
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