Ming and his increasing doses

Crista & Ming

Crista & Ming

Very Active Member
Thought I’d make a new thread since my original thread is now 2 pages long.

I just did a +7 and he’s at 25.8. I’m tempted to increase by 0.5 so from 4.5 u to 5 u tomorrow if his AMPS is super high.

What do y’all think? Too much, too fast?

Sigh...... It just seems like 4.5 u hasn’t worked at all.
 
You *could* try this. I do think, though, he's bouncing over several cycles from dropping to the low blues recently. For example, on the 26th he went from an AMPS of 22.8 all the way down to 6.4 mid cycle. That's a huge drop and can definitely cause a big rebound. Maybe try a bump to 4.75 u in case that bounce might be ready to stop. They can go on for 6+ cycles in bounce prone kitties.
 
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I agree with Kris. He's had quite a few cycles with a strong repsonse, so I would go with the 0.25u increase instead of 0.5u. You could increase again in probably four cycles (or five depending on if you prefer to increase in the morning or at night).
 
Okay! Slow and steady wins the race. I just did a +10 and it was lower than the +7. Any explanation? Food spike? He’s a slow eater and takes a few hours to finish his actual meal.

I’ll actually be increasing to 4.75 next PM cycle. I realize I have to go out and help out a friend during the AM and can’t monitor.

Thanks again for the advice, everyone!!!
 
Crista & Ming said:
Okay! Slow and steady wins the race. I just did a +10 and it was lower than the +7. Any explanation? Food spike? He’s a slow eater and takes a few hours to finish his actual meal.
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Those two values are essentially the same. Meters are allowed to have a 20% variance in readings so even what seems to be significantly divergent numbers are the same general range.

Aside from that over time you'll learn to scan your SS for trends rather than focus on specific numbers - unless they're lime green of course!
 
I think I will continue to shoot 4.5 tonight since he’s at 18.4 for PMPS. He was technically higher 2 hours ago at 19.8 but that I’m assuming, like Kris said, is variance?

I just don’t want him to bounce so maybe holding it steady a little more will help? What do you think?
 
Hmmm...I'd be tempted to increase to 4.75. If you'd rather do that during a daytime cycle, though I would totally understand that. I understand not wanting him to bounce, but sometimes that just happens. Bouncy kitties bounce. If you always held the dose to avoid bouncing, you might also avoid getting him into good healing numbers. The hope is always that a smaller increase will reduce bouncing (and it often does). Bounce prone cats still bounce, but often not as bad with smaller increases.
 
Yes, those numbers are mostly meter variance. Some bouncing is inevitable. I worry more about cats spending a lot of time over the renal threshold. One thing we always say around here though is that you hold the syringe. In the end, you have to live with the decisions, and you know yourself and your cat better than anyone.

If it was me, I'd raise the dose as soon as you have a cycle you can monitor. But again, it's always up to you.
 
Haha!! Oh you two.

Yeah I was thinking tomorrow would be a good time for me to monitor. I really don’t trust myself at night. I set up alarms and just sleep right through them.

But I’m just curious, let’s say if I did decide to increase tonight and I shot about 30 mins ago. What if I added the 0.25. Would that be too late?
 
It wouldn't be too late, but it's really hard to accurately get just a 0.25u dose on a u40 syringe. It's not going to hurt to wait one more cycle and just do it in the morning.
 
Why yes, there is! I use u100's which is the size human diabetics use so they are easy to find, relatively cheap, and you can make smaller more accurate adjustments to dose. The catch is that you have to use a conversion chart: http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

And you have to be very careful at first to make sure you fully understand the conversion and how to use it. And you still have to talk in units, not lines. So for example, I gave Sam 2.4u tonight, but when I pulled it into the syringe, I went to the line for 6.
 
Oohhh!!!!!

I actually think I have u100 needles. My mom saw them and told me they’re wrong but now I think she meant what you meant: that they need to be converted.

I shall dig them up and read up on the conversions. Thanks, Djamila!
 
Yes, on our chart 4.8u is the 12 line. When we use u100's, we don't do 0.25u changes, we do 0.2u changes (or even 0.1 if you want to eyeball between two lines). You want to make sure your u100's have half unit marks on them. There are several types of u100's, so you might want to make sure you have the ones that say 3/10cc, with half unit marks. I usually get 31gauge, 8mm, but those two numbers are less important than the 3/10 part. WalMart has them the cheapest, and I like their syringes if you happen to have one near you.
 
Also, when you get u100s, I strong urge you to hide the u40s in a different room! We're all very careful, but early in the morning before coffee, you might accidentally grab the wrong ones and you don't want to do that!
 
Djamila said:
You want to make sure your u100's have half unit marks on them. There are several types of u100's, so you might want to make sure you have the ones that say 3/10cc, with half unit marks. I usually get 31gauge, 8mm, but those two numbers are less important than the 3/10 part. WalMart has them the cheapest, and I like their syringes if you happen to have one near you.
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Yep! I’ve got the Relion 3/10.

Rachel said:
Also, when you get u100s, I strong urge you to hide the u40s in a different room! We're all very careful, but early in the morning before coffee, you might accidentally grab the wrong ones and you don't want to do that!
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Good thinking!!

If I get to 5 u, I’ll switch to the u100 or see how eyeballing 4.75 does for Ming and then go to 4.8 after a couple of cycles.
 
Yes to what Rachel said. Definitely move the u40's to the back of a closet somewhere so you don't grab them by accident!
 
Matthew Mcconaughey voice: Alright, alright, alright.

Seems like 4.8 u is working for this cycle! He was at 67 at +6, and then 74 at +6.5 (which is probably the same thing) and now at +7, he's at 92. He DID eat some food - two freeze dried nuggets. He was asking for food well before I tested him at +6 anyway. (I've decided to communicate with US mg since most people do on this forum and when I'm reading other threads, it's good practice for me to try to convert the numbers).

When he's hungry, Ming does this thing where, if I'm in the kitchen, he'll sit on the table and then climb and put his two front legs on the top of the air and stare at your every move. If I'm in my room, he'll sit on the edge of my dresser and stare down at me while I'm laying in bed, as if willing me telepathically to feeeeddddd him. :joyful:

I'm starting work again tomorrow and since my mother is not home, I've been moving Ming's shooting times earlier (except today because I woke up late ugh.. lol!) so I can shoot before I leave for work. And then someone at home will shoot him and by the time I get home, I can do some testing since we won't always get a PMPS reading depending on who's dosing Ming in the evening.

Here's my schedule again if anyone can give me suggestions! These times are when I'm NOT at home.

October 1: 645 AM - 715 PM
October 2: 645 AM - 715 PM
October 3: 8 AM - 9 PM
October 4: 615 AM - 645 PM

October 9: 645 AM - 715 PM
October 10: 8 AM - 9 PM
October 11: 645 AM - 645 PM
October 12: 645 AM - 715 PM
 
Ack! I'm so sorry Crista, I forgot. Let's see..while I'm looking at your schedule, is someone able/willing to shoot him in the evenings? If so, you can stick to the same schedule and just have someone who does his evening shots for you.
 
IF not, my best thought is:

October 1: 6:30 AM/7:30 PM
October 2: 6:30 AM/7:30 PM
October 3: 7:30 AM/ As soon as you get home PM
October 4: This is the tough one...you could do 6 AM/7 PM but you'd have to be sure he's high enough to shoot. I'd probably want to get up kind of earlier on this day to get a test in at say...5:45 and then another in at 6 to see if he's rising.

If someone could even only shoot for you on ONE day (Oct 3) in the PM, that would make things much better. Then you could maybe do 6:30 AM and PM (I know it would suck to get up earlier, but it would be best for Ming probably) and the next morning the shot would only be a little earlier than the day before. If they are willing to shoot evenings overall for you that would really be best, but I understand that may not be possible.
 
No problem, Rachel! And thanks for suggestions! Yes, I think I can get someone to dose in the evening. I'm just concerned they'll forget or something (it has happened haha) But I think I was mostly concerned before (a week or so ago) about getting PS readings but there's not much I can do about that. And I've certainly RELAXED since then haha!

I'm wondering now: It seems it's okay to be "late" or "early" to dose as long as the numbers are high enough. Is that correct? That makes me feel better in case someone or I DO forget by half an hour to an hour. Then we just have to test and make sure things are in order the following cycles.

And I have no problem waking up early :) I like to give myself an hour before I have to leave the house to just sit at the table and stare tiredly out the window while eating breakfast haha
 
Crista & Ming said:
I'm wondering now: It seems it's okay to be "late" or "early" to dose as long as the numbers are high enough. Is that correct?
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Well it's not IDEAL, but with Prozinc you have some flexibility. 12/12 is the best schedule, but if you're running a little late or need to give a little early that's okay as long as he's high enough.

I think I'd see if you can get someone to dose in the evenings. Or at least on that late evening. It'll make it really tough to dose otherwise since that would be shooting later than normal and then earlier in the morning...you'd most likely have to skip one of those. I know you mentioned your mom was possibly going to learn to test. Has she been willing to do that or is she still not sure?
 
Rachel's giving you great advice on this, so I'm just hanging out watching...:D

I also do that early morning sit-and-stare thing while slowly eating breakfast. I started getting up super early to accommodate Sam's shots, and then I just got in the habit of having tons of time before starting my work day. :coffee::coffee::coffee:
 
Rachel said:
I think I'd see if you can get someone to dose in the evenings. Or at least on that late evening. It'll make it really tough to dose otherwise since that would be shooting later than normal and then earlier in the morning...you'd most likely have to skip one of those. I know you mentioned your mom was possibly going to learn to test. Has she been willing to do that or is she still not sure?
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I see I see! I'm sure my sister can do the evening dose. Then my dad is up next. Last resort is calling up my friend to come over for a HUGE favour haha

I think my mom will learn to do it at least. And slowly work her into doing it regularly. Ming is so good with the testing now. He doesn't move and just takes it. :)

Djamila said:
I also do that early morning sit-and-stare thing while slowly eating breakfast. I started getting up super early to accommodate Sam's shots, and then I just got in the habit of having tons of time before starting my work day. :coffee::coffee::coffee:
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Yes! Love having lots of time to get ready despite wishing really bad to go back to sleep sometimes.
 
Ack! Yes, I think he's bouncing. He's trying to keep you on your toes. ;)

Yeah, it's tough until your mom or someone else is able to get some testing in. The good news is that Ming runs higher at night usually, so I would just be sure that you get a test in when you get home for now to see where things are. Ming taking the tests well will definitely help! I think most people are just afraid of testing (I was!) so once they see kitty is already trained and able to sit still for testing, they realize it's not hard at all and are more willing to jump in. :)
 
Eh whaaaaa... he’s at 21 mmol or 378 about 45 mins before his shot. I’m glad he’s not REALLY high at least. He definitely is keeping me on my toes!

Once my mom is back from her trip in two weeks, I hope we can test regularly during the day time until we get this little beast-kitty in control. My sister is starting school again and Dad works so no one will be home at all to watch Ming :nailbiting: but I’m sure he’ll be fine.

I started writing a home testing how-to guide to stick to our fridge. Hopefully that helps everyone at home understand why I’m home testing. My dad even commented how well Ming is taking the tests now :smuggrin:
 
Oh Ming! Yes, as Rachel said, that was a bounce cycle. How many cycle you get like that now just depends on Ming. Some kitties stay up there for a cycle or two, some will stay up there for a few days. Hopefully Ming will decide that those low numbers aren't so scary and come back down soon. Since Ming is pretty new to this, don't change the dose today even if the numbers are ugly. We don't know yet how long she will stay high and flat, so we just have to watch and wait for this round.

I love that your family is helping out! And that Ming is so good for the tests.
 
Ming’s ears have little bumpies now from all the poking :( will they go away? I read somewhere to rub some type of oil or something. I’ll have to go look it up after I post this
 
Some people use Neosporin (I'm not sure what it's called outside the US, but @Kris & Teasel or someone else might know). You can also hold his ear for a few seconds after the test to stop the bleeding and help prevent the bumps. Or try switching to a thinner lancet if his ears will bleed enough for you.
 
I’ve been holding his ears after poking but perhaps those bumps were from the first day I did a curve and poked like I was poking to kill :banghead: I hope they go away though. And time to find some neosporin!

I set my alarm to wake me up at 1130 pm so I could get a mid-cycle reading but alas... it was like I was dead to the world. I must have been in DEEP DEEP sleep the many times I would not hear my alarm. I’m really good at hearing my alarm in the mornings but I guess not in the middle of my sleep o_O

Off topic: it makes me incredibly sad when animals come into the hospital and the notes say “so and so hasn’t eaten for 3 days”. I understand the delay since the first few times Ming had pancreatitis, I kept hoping and hoping and hoping he would eat. And delayed going to the vet or ER for a day or two. I wish it was more common knowledge that one day without food is usually seen as an emergency.

Then we have owners that don’t want to or can’t do certain procedures, perhaps for financial reasons or others but we do our best to do what we can despite the limitations. And I can see the frustration in the techs and vet’s faces when they say, “This animal is certainly going to be back tomorrow” because they can’t fully treat the animal and the animal goes home to deal with their condition another night.

Anyway, having sick animals is tough overall for everyone. Wishing all the kitties in this forum health and longevity :rb_icon:
 
I empathize about the middle of the night tests. I'm terrible about them. Once I'm asleep it's next to impossible to wake up again. One reason I always make sure to leave out extra food at night for Sam.

It would be so hard to see that day after day in your clinic. I so wish there was better pet insurance, or less expensive vet care. It's really not financially possible for many people to afford the care they need. I second your wish for health and longevity for all of our fur babies.
 
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