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MiloMistyMax

Member Since 2012
I am looking for some more food options for Milo. I am at my wits end with this and I really need something to work. He is in remission from diabetes and he has had pancreatitis since March. I am giving him Cerenia, Zofran, Pepcid and usually Remeron but today I tried Cypro. The Cypro did nothing. He will not eat anything. I can't do assisted feeding. He gets so stressed out whenever I do anything with his mouth and it stresses me out so it isn't going to work. I am considering a feeding tube just as a back up for when I can't get him to eat. I was able to get about half a syringe in him but now I am crying and he is really upset. I will try to do the other half later if I can calm myself down.

I am at the point where I just want a food that he will eat. He is not interested in his Fancy Feast, or Wellness chicken or the dry Nature's Variety and Young Again. He doesn't want A/D or baby food. So I was looking at things like Stella & Chewys and the Nature's Variety Raw. They carry all this at this place called The Dogs Meow and I just don't know what I should get. I have never tried raw before but maybe it would work. So I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions of what to try. And are these things good for a diabetic?

He doesn't like anything with Beef or Venison. He seems to prefer Chicken or Salmon flavored foods.

And FYI he was just at the vet today and his blood work didn't show anything wrong other than he is a bit anemic. His BG was 150 which I think is great for being stressed at the vet. He is a bit dehydrated but they sent me home with some fluids.
 
Re: Food suggestions

Maybe add "Anyone feed raw?" to your subject line? I never used raw but I know some folks here use the ones you mentioned. You just need to attract the right eyes.
 
Re: Food suggestions

Have you tried forti flora? My Zoe wont eat much of anything without some sprinkled on top. Just a little seems to get her interested in eating. Just a thought...Good luck and let us know how you're doing ok?
jeanne
 
Re: Food suggestions

Hi
I am not a specialist, but I have encounter problemns with my cat eating.
The best succes I had with recovery formula from royal canin, but I think that other labels of recovery formula sound work to determine your cat to eat something. Just that it has carbs and you should be careful. If he will like the recovery formula maybe to mix it with his ordinary food.
Regards,
Mihaela
 
Re: Food suggestions

MiloMistyMax said:
I'll just figure it out myself.
Click to expand...
Please don't get discouraged. I updated your original title to try and get you some answers.
 
Re: Food suggestions- anyone feed raw food? Advice?

I feed both raw and Fancy Feast to my cat with diabetes however I dont have any issues with her eating. She will eat anything at anytime. The reason I alternate and feed both is because the Natures raw is hard to mix with water. I do have trouble getting her to drink water so I also feed the Fancy Feast so that I can mix it with water and make a soup out of it. The raw is as close to what your cat would eat out in the wild as you can get. However the Natures still 5% fruits and veggie. Why they put that is the food I have no clue - cats and also dogs dont need to eat fruits and veggies. Does a mouse have any fruit and veggie in it? Or a bug? Or any of the meat that they would eat in the wild? No. You should check with your vet or others that have more knowledge than I do however according to all the research that Ive done on food for diabetic cats - I found raw to be a good choice for a diabetic. It has also been good for my dog. A lot of his issues were nipped in the bud when he went to raw. I hope that your cat will eat it. Good luck and I wish you much success.
 
Re: Food suggestions- anyone feed raw food? Advice?

Hello,
I would suggest Stella & Chewy's freeze dried raw food - I didn't reconstitute but fed it dry. Also, sear a bit of ground turkey meat or chicken or salmon (warmth intensifies the flavor), leave it a bit raw - I say that because my cats have never cared for any raw food as all their lives they had been fed dry food. If desperate, try a bit of quality dry kitten food- careful, may knock Milo out of remission.

My Pudge has come out of remission during the past 2 weeks. He had terrible diarrhea, stopped eating & drinking water, stopped peeing. I syringed water & food but knew he wasn't getting enough nutrients. I tempted him with everything I could think of - nothing worked. I was afraid that he would die. Finally, I tried a few pieces of kitten food. He ate it up! Next, he had a swallow of water! Licked his paw & face. Moments later, he looked for a bit more kitten dry food. Peed! Diarrhea stopped. I knew he'd live. After 2 days on dry kitten food (would not eat moist or baby food) his BG climbed to 252, though. Put back on FF chicken or turkey classics, his BG fell below 100. After eating, it's up to 155 at the most. He's on Levemir now (13yrs, was 18 lbs but now 15 lbs, he went into remission on ProZinc, DX'd Dec. 2011, remission mid-2012) as I had flexpens left over from my sweet Little One who's still in remission.

My cats have never particularly cared for Wellness or Before Grain, though I do mix it with FF.

I told our story to give you hope. No, I didn't want Pudge out of remission but given the choice between death or insulin or stomach tube: dry kitten food was an easy choice. One I'll never regret.

Take care & best wishes,
Sophie
 
Re: Food suggestions- anyone feed raw food? Advice?

Hi,

My cats now get about a third of their diet as raw food. I use mostly whole raw wild rabbit, minced, to which I add a few supplements.

Your cat may not take to raw straight away. My cats were 14 - 15ys old when I first introduced raw, and I honestly never thought they'd eat it. But I added just a teaspoonful to their favourite foods and then gradually increased the amount. The difference in their over all condition has been....astonishing! :shock:

If you're only thinking of having raw food as part of the diet then it doesn't need to be a 'complete food' that follows a recipe and has to 'tick all the nutritional boxes'. You can add a little raw to whatever else your cat is eating. Maybe you could try adding a little minced raw chicken to your cat's food just to see it he will eat that...?

I'm wondering too if you will get more general help if you post a question something along the lines of 'How to encourage a cat to eat'. One of my cats went through a major operation recently and he became really depressed and his appetite diminished a lot. I found that sprinkling brewer's yeast powder or crushed freeze dried meat treats over his meals really helped to encourage him to eat. I'm sure that others on this forum will have lots of suggestions about what has worked for them in this regard.

Chin up, Sweetie. There really may be a solution to your problem. Don't lose hope.

Eliz
 
Re: Food suggestions- anyone feed raw food? Advice?

I have fed raw to my two cats for almost 6 years. They both love it, and even initially Katie took right to it, and she doesn't like canned food. They eat mainly the raw chicken.

I found Rad Cat and Feline's Pride to be the best, IMO. Neither have carbs or fruits, veggies. Their recipes are very similar. Feline's Pride has ground bone, where Rad Cat has bone meal. Feline's Pride is available online and Rad Cat is available online and around the country at many locations. You can check their websites for info and store locations.

It's pricey, but worth it. I recently just started making their food myself, but have used these two foods for the past 6 years. I would recommend them to anyone. Many people think raw is an ideal diet for diabetic cats.

Good luck:)
 
Re: Food suggestions- anyone feed raw food? Advice?

I don't feed raw food right now but have had plenty of problems getting Wink to want to eat enough. One thing he absolutely loves, is to have the Halo Liv-a-Little freeze dried chicken treats crushed and sprinkled over his food. I find that these freeze dried treats crush into a nice powder better than the Pure Bites.

Sometimes, he also likes a little company while he eats. Sounds strange, but if I hang out with him, and encourage him to eat a bit more he will.
 
Re: Food suggestions- anyone feed raw food? Advice?

Do you see any signs of nausea? Lip smacking and walking away? What were you feeding before all this? Will he eat that? You can always transition to other foods later.

Here are tips for getting him to eat..

Cheryl & Winnie wrote:
Enticing a Cat to Eat

Here are some things you can do do entice your cat to eat:

-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
FortiFlora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
parmesean cheese
smashed crumbles of dry food
bonito/tuna flakes (Can be found at Asian markets or sometimes in the Asian food section of a large grocery store.)
halo chicken treats (freeze dried chicken) -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
pour a little water from tuna in water over food (I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats and it shouldn't contain soy -- check labels)
powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
trader joe tuna for cats
baby food -- beechnut or Gerber Stage 2 -- you want a baby food that is only a protein + broth (although the Gerber contains cornstarch). It should have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
kentucky fried chicken
deli turkey /chicken
plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
chicken broth -- low sodium

If enticements don't work, you should consider:
-assist feeding ( syringe or make little meatballs and place in mouth)
-and/or talking to your vet about appetite stimulents ( mirtazapine or cyproheptidine)
Click to expand...
 
Re: Food suggestions- anyone feed raw food? Advice?

Thanks...I just got a feeding tube put in today. So anything raw will have to wait. I did try the Stella and Chewys stuff that you add water to and both my cats hated it. I got a sample of some Rad cat raw chicken but he is not able to eat anything like that right now. I got this tube to lessen my stress but now I feel more stressed. I don't know if I am doing it right. I don't understand why stuff keeps coming back out the tube. I feel like I am just failing at everything.
 
Re: Food suggestions- anyone feed raw food? Advice?

We have people with a lot of experience with feeding tubes also.
I'll see if I can find some eyes. There's also a yahoo assisted feeding group that most of them post on.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Karrie and Maverick are the feeding tube gurus. Carl, you want to send her a pm? i know there's an assisted feeding group too but i can't think of the page right now. will be back with that info in just a sec
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Yes, I'll PM her.
Thanks, LynnLee:-)
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

I'm not sure when Karrie will pop on so I'm going to link some of the condos regarding tube feeding. Sorry to link the entire condos but there's alot of good info in them.

Great starting out info

General info/meds

Flushes

Also look into a rush order of the kitty kollar - it will make a difference in comfort.

The FAF site is a very active group with a ton of info. You can't take it all in I know. I would focus for now on the new member file: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feli ... 20Members/
Click to expand...

BTW, Gsrland had two bouts of DKA and, with the help of this group, survived them both and is doing fantastic.

I hope Karrie can check in soon. Good luck.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

I sent Karrie a message, but she hasn't seen it yet. But I'm sure she will.

I agree Marje. Garland's story is an incredible one, and I still recall vividly the night that Violet first posted here. That was the night I was sure I'd found the best community of cat lovers in the world, and one that I wanted to be a part of for the duration. Miracles happen here.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

The best advice I can give is to stay calm. Breathe.....read the info I posted.

If you can get a magic bullet at Costco, that will help further liquefy any food to go through the tube. I believe another good food is IAMS Max Cal....high calorie, low carb but you might have to run it through the magic bullet a bit.

Read the info on flushes. I had a cat with a tube and that was an important part to keeping the food flowing. That...and feeding small amounts.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

One of my previous cats had hepatic lipidosis and needed a feeding tube for a couple of months before he ate on his own again. During that time, I had to tube-feed him.

Things that worked well:
  • Extra water added to his food blended into a liquified "meat shake"
  • Feeding s l o w l y and rinsing with water as needed (it would take me anywhere from 15 minutes to a half hour)
  • Feeding multiple small meals a day (about 6-8 times or more)
  • Flushing out the tube with water during and after every feeding
  • A baby onesie-shirt to tuck the tube under when he was out and about
  • It was easier to tube-feed him from the get-go than it was the first 2 weeks of testing Michelangelo.

The tube even came out once. (Painlessly for him but freaked me the F- out!) The vet re-inserted it and it was all good. When he started eating on his own again, the vet told me I should be able to remove the tube painlessly as well...and I did.

It also makes it easier to mix in their Meds with their milkshake than it is to pill them. ;-)
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Also, my hepatic lipidosis kitty (he was around 3 years old when this happened) was a part-feral like Michelangelo. He was surprisingly complacent from the beginning and would even purr while I syringe-fed his tube. I'd use this opportunity to brush him and even clip his nails (two things he hated usually). For him, there was no difference between me tube-feeding him vs. him nomming down on his regular grubbage...except his head wasn't buried in a dish. :lol:
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Oh! And stroking the neck and under the chin after each bit of food to help it go down! That's highly important as it causes them to reflexively swallow and send saliva down their throat to help with digestion and encourage appetite.

I found out after the fact that they had only thought Patrick had a 5% survival rate (this was back in 2000ish). I never knew, nor did Patrick. He did just fine and survived another several years. Only side effect was that he had food-intake regulation issues for the rest of his life and I was constantly battling his obesity (didn't help that I didn't know any better at the time and was feeding him dry Hills w/d for the rest of his life ultimately leading to his CRF and sub-q before I had to let him go).
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

I do appreciate the advice on enticing a cat to eat but I am way past that. I have tried everything so I don't need anymore tips for that. He is very nauseous, I am struggling to control it. He has been losing weight rapidly so I decided to get the tube before HL happened.

Thanks Marje for those links, they were really helpful. I am a member of that yahoo group so I posted on there. Does anyone know if that Clinicare liquid food is good for diabetics? The A/D is pretty high in carbs so I don't want to keep using it. I know I can use Wellness or Fancy Feast but can a food aversion happen with a tube? I don't want to use his normal foods if that can happen.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

So sorry I dont have advice but wanted you to know I'm keeping you guys in my prayers. My only good advice would be...dont forget to breathe. I know what you are going through.
best wishes,
jeanne
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Clinicare is very high in carbs (27%) and doesn't have enough calories. Yes, you can cause a food aversion but, at this point, I'd get the calories and food in him and deal with the aversion later. He might not develop an aversion...some cats don't.

Here's a great post on foods and discusses the MaxCal I recommended but also some other options: Tube Feeding

When I tube fed our kitty, I also used the little tshirt but now they have Kitty Kollar and there's good info about etubes. I'd try to express order it if you can. Violet thought this was one of the things that helped her and Garland.

Please let me know how else I can help. I may not know the info but I know where to search Karries posts.

Also...it is imperative that you give him ondansetron for nausea....his nausea has to be addressed.

Hang in there..it's tough to get started but keeping him in my prayers.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

She said she's already a member of the FAF group. I suggested she blend the MaxCal or other food in a magic bullet.

You might also get some benefit from this Primer on Pancreatitis. It has info that will help you form questions for your vet and also the latest treatment methodologies.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Marje and Gracie said:
When I tube fed our kitty, I also used the little tshirt but now they have Kitty Kollar and there's good info about etubes. I'd try to express order it if you can.
Click to expand...


Oh, wow! That's a really cool product! Makes me wish they had that when Patrick had his tube!
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Yeah I can't wait until the Kitty Kollar gets here. They were really fast, they put it in the mail a couple of hours after I sent the order form. She said it should be here on Tuesday because of the holiday.

A lot of my problems were solved when the vet put a new cap on the tube. The first cap had a hole in it. I was freaking out wondering why stuff kept coming back out and he was breathing funny.

I do know about the MaxCal but members of the pancreatitis group said I should not use it because it's high in fat and most think fat is a cause of p-titis flare ups. I think I will use some of my cans of food that I can't get either of my cats to eat on their own. I have about 10 cans of Evo and some Merrick. They loved the Evo the first time I bought one but hated it when I bought more. Not surprising.

The FAF group has been really helpful. It is so great to have people that know exactly what you are talking about. I just love the internet.

And Marje, I decided to add the Zofran even though my vet doesn't think I should. Some say it's not wise to go against a vet but I think they are ridiculous when it comes to nausea. She thinks it's one of the meds causing it. I feel like the biggest reason he won't eat is the nausea. The tube can help keep him healthy until I can get a handle on it. It's getting easier. They also had me do the fluids at the vet instead of just showing me so now I think I can do it myself.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

I don't agree that higher fat can cause pancreatitis. In dogs and people...absolutely. But it's never been proven in cats. Pancreatitis is idiopathic in cats.

However, if you can find other low carb, high calorie foods that you can blend and put through the tube, I'm all for what makes you feel most comfortable. I'm glad the issues with the tube worked out with the new cap. I hope that he will start to eat with the nausea being treated. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to get them to eat again but, as you said, as long as he's getting plenty of calories through the tube, he's ok. He'll start eating when he's ready. I would offer him small amounts of food before you tube feed him and when he is not nauseated. If you offer him food after he's eaten, he's not going to want it.

Please keep us posted! I'm so glad things are going better!
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Yeah I am just repeating what they said. I just compared the Evo to the MaxCal and it appears Evo is actually higher in fat. I am more concerned about carbs really. But besides that I think it's a good food and I will be happy to actually use it. And if he gets a food aversion to the Evo...it doesn't matter. He hates it anyways.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

MiloMistyMax said:
Yeah I can't wait until the Kitty Kollar gets here. They were really fast, they put it in the mail a couple of hours after I sent the order form. She said it should be here on Tuesday because of the holiday.

A lot of my problems were solved when the vet put a new cap on the tube. The first cap had a hole in it. I was freaking out wondering why stuff kept coming back out and he was breathing funny.

I do know about the MaxCal but members of the pancreatitis group said I should not use it because it's high in fat and most think fat is a cause of p-titis flare ups. I think I will use some of my cans of food that I can't get either of my cats to eat on their own. I have about 10 cans of Evo and some Merrick. They loved the Evo the first time I bought one but hated it when I bought more. Not surprising.

The FAF group has been really helpful. It is so great to have people that know exactly what you are talking about. I just love the internet.

And Marje, I decided to add the Zofran even though my vet doesn't think I should. Some say it's not wise to go against a vet but I think they are ridiculous when it comes to nausea. She thinks it's one of the meds causing it. I feel like the biggest reason he won't eat is the nausea. The tube can help keep him healthy until I can get a handle on it. It's getting easier. They also had me do the fluids at the vet instead of just showing me so now I think I can do it myself.
Click to expand...

My Katie suffers from flare ups of pancreatitis too. Is he still on the Cerenia? I ask, because Cerenia does not agree with Katie at all. It will reduce the vomiting, but the medicine makes her so sick and she won't eat at all on it. Perhaps your vet is right and it is one of the meds causing it? Just putting that out there, there are kitties that have bad side effects to every medicine. Good luck. Keeping you both in my thoughts.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Well I guess it's a possibility but I don't give him Cerenia often. Only when he starts vomiting. For almost 2 months after he got diagnosed he didn't vomit once. But a couple of weeks ago it started. So I did the Cerenia for 5 days. Then stopped. The second day off he started vomiting again. I gave for 4 more days and haven't done any since. It seems really effective with vomiting. But he seems to be nauseous with or without the Cerenia. I wish it was from the Cerenia. That would make things easier. But it isn't in his case.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

I really don't think the cerenia is going to address nausea. Did you get the ondansetron (zofran)? That's what you need for nausea. As I said, vets seem to think the cerenia will adequately address nausea, but it does not.

Hows he doing?
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

I am giving the zofran. I agree the Cerenia does nothing for nausea.

He is so out of it. It makes me so sad. He can barely move. Is this normal right after a tube is put in? I know it was a surgery but I didn't think it would effect him so much. I tested his BG earlier and it was 161. Pretty high but hopefully now that I am not using the A/D it will go down a bit. I really don't want to have to start insulin again. Since he will be getting all canned food through his tube he won't be eating any dry food so that will hopefully help as well. He still isn't interested in anything. I offered him some water but he didn't want it. After his blood test I offered a piece of freeze dried chicken, he didn't want that. So I tried a little cream cheese on my finger and it almost made him throw up.

Well time for his next feeding. So far so good with that.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Poor baby. I hope he starts to feel better soon.

He's on pain meds right?
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Oh yes definitely. I got 30ml of Buprenex from Diamondback about a month ago. I am set for awhile on that.

I am really happy right now because I was so worried about how sluggish he was but I found him in the litterbox which was something else I was worried about. Afterwards he sort of just fell to the floor. But then got up, went into the living room and hopped up onto the couch. Now he is sleeping but that was some progress. Finally out of the closet and back on the couch.
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

Sending continuing improvement vines to Milo :cool:
 
Re: Food suggestions- update. Feeding tube help needed!

I'm so glad you are a member of the FDMB and also the FAF group. These two groups are absolutely incredible. Maverick would have died in 2008 if it were not for the FAF group. His vet almost killed him. When he was diagnosed with diabetes in 2010 I went through five vets after finding the FDMB trying to get one that approved of home testing and that was up to speed on the latest treatment. I shutter to think how managing his diabetes would have went without the support of FDMB. Maverick would have been given insulin blindly and on high carb vet prescription food.

You are in amazing hands. Feeding tubes and diabetes does have an emotional component. Remember to take some time for you each day to focus on just yourself.

Sending you big hugs.
 
It turns out Milo had a lot of other things going on besides the diabetes and pancreatitis. I took him in yesterday for what I thought was severe anemia, but turned out he had restrictive cardiomyopathy which would have taken his life within the year even with medication. If that were the only thing I might have decided to try it but they found something in his belly that they think was cancer and there was something abnormal about his right kidney. They also mentioned an abscess on his pancreas. Instead of moving forward and putting him through more tests, I decided it was best to let him go now before he really started to suffer.

I will miss him so much. He was my best friend for the past 14 years. Now he is with my other kitty Max who passed in February. Thank you everyone for your help with his diabetes and everything else.
 
I am so sorry to hear of Milo's passing. You were a wonderful momma bean for 14 years.

Let the tears fall and then remember all the good times you had with Milo and hold him forever in your heart.
 

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So very sorry, you loved him and he loved you so much. You took magnificent care of sweet Milo. Remember the love. A new kitty angel named Milo looking after you. Many hugs,
Sophie
 
So sorry for your loss of sweet Milo..... I pray that you find peace and comfort, wings_cat
 
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