Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417 +4 121 +4.5 114 +5 122 +5.5 140

Status
Not open for further replies.
Marycatmom

Marycatmom

Member Since 2014
Mikey is helping me with my school work this morning. He is positive that I am unable to use the stapler unsupervised.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235

I love his picture! It is nice to see him going down the ladder, but no need to go THAT fast there Mikey....
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235

Thank you! He's a daredevil who loves to go fast! Needless to say, I'll be getting a +4.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235

I'd also give him some food to slow him down. Low carb ought to be enough.

When the +2 is significantly lower than the amps, that is a red flag that you've got a very active cycle going on and will need to monitor extra. He may be clearing the bounce.

I'd feed him now & get a +3.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66

might be good to break out the high carb. He's not in any danger but he's got a lot of momentum going.

give one teaspoon of low carb food + 1-2 drops of karo or honey. or pop open gravy food and give 1 teaspoon of the gravy.

Retest in 20 min.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66

Wish I had seen your post, Julie. I got caught up in schoolwork. Ugh.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66

Gave gravy. Will post test results in 20 minutes. Renaming cat Rubber Ball.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66

Here are the directions for handling low numbers from the "Shooting and Handling Low Numbers" yellow starred sticky:

Low numbers are under 50. It's not a panic situation - you'll be able to pull him up and steer him with carbs, but when he goes under 50 it's time to take action.

DON'T PANIC! or HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS

First, try to not panic. Post to the Lantus Insulin Support Group or on the Health Board. Make sure your subject line indicates you are concerned about a possible hypo and/or add the 911 icon to the first post in your condo. People who are experienced in dealing with low numbers will be there to help. After posting, remember to refresh your browser periodically to see if people have replied.

It’s important to recognize that just because your cat may be experiencing low BG numbers doesn’t mean that your kitty is critically hypoglycemic. Many cats will have low numbers and never have symptoms. It’s important, though, to bring those numbers up into a safe range. ALWAYS make sure you have a stock of test strips, high carb (HC) canned food that contains gravy and is over 15% carb such as Fancy Feast grilled, marinated, or Gravy Lovers varieties (see Dr. Lisa's Cat Food Nutritional Composition List for a full list of options), and/or a simple sugar solution such as Karo/corn syrup, honey, maple syrup, etc.

If your cat is experiencing symptoms, especially if those symptoms are severe, you need to rub Karo syrup, honey, or maple syrup on the gums or, if symptoms are very severe, administer rectally and get your cat to the nearest 24-hour emergency facility. Take the bottle of syrup with you to administer on the way if necessary. (Note that it is rare that we see episodes of symptomatic hypoglycemia with Lantus and even rarer to see severe symptoms. But, you need to know what to do should they occur.)

The symptoms to be concerned about include but are not limited to:
staggering, uncoordinated movements, 'drunken' walk, wobbling, balance problems
ataxia - usually lack of muscular coordination, but maybe changes in head and neck movements
disorientation (yowling, walking in circles, etc.)
twitching
stupor
convulsions or seizures
coma
If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only.
(If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.)
Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.

In the case of an accidental overdose or should there be symptoms of hypoglycemia, even if you have caught this in the early stages, you may need to monitor for literally 16 or more hours. Lantus and Levemir are long acting types of insulin. This means if your cat is over dose, you will need to stay alert for hours in order to closely monitor and to keep your cat safe.

Please post your numbers. Those people who are helping you will not abandon you. In fact, they are staying up with you. The experienced people will even work in shifts to make sure your cat is safe and you have the support you need. Remember to refresh your browser to see new posts and keep posting so we know all is well.

~ written by Sienne and Gabby
Click to expand...
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66

Thanks, Julie. I'm so grateful for all your help. I'm also glad I assembled an emergency kit. Mikey aka Rubber Ball definitely not showing any symptoms. He's hanging out in the kitchen sink playing with the drips.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66

Cats can get into the 30's without showing symptoms on Lantus - i've even heard upper 20's. Rely on your testing rather than on visual symptoms. By the time there are symptoms it's usually really low. You want to prevent symptoms.

I'll keep checking in on you. Going to see about breakfast in a minute, but i'll be back.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66

one or the other - gravy OR karo. 48 is ok - you just want to pull him up a tiny and keep him over 50.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48

retest in about 20 min.

the idea with tight regulation is to keep him in normal numbers as long as possible, so you don't want to overcarb him. Just enough to keep him above 50. As you get more experience with it, you'll know how much that is - different cats respond differently to carbs.

Most everyone overcarbs at the beginning, sending them way high, until they learn the amount that works for their own cat. That doesn't hurt anything, and if you're panicking, it works. But if you can just finesse him into the 50's that's even better.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48

Since I can be here all day, let's go with finesse. I gave him a bit of gravy, and set the timer to test again in 20 minutes. I have the article you referenced about treating low numbers in the emergency kit. I just didn't think to look at it! lol
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48

i think everyone loses a couple of brain cells when their cat goes below 50 the first few times! ohmygod_smile :lol:

after a while it gets more routine, once you have confidence that your cat really will come back up. but at the beginning it's a little frazzling. :-D
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48

perfect!

give him one teaspoon of low carb to help him stay there. He may just surf along and the longer he stays in green, the better. No more hc for now.

retest in about 30 minutes and see if he's holding over 50.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58

Nice job of handling the numbers. I'd still keep testing/feeding (aka "Lather. Rinse. Repeat") in 20 - 30 min. to make sure that numbers stay where you want them.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58

Got it! Back in 30. Wondering about tonight's dose.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58

Congrats looks like Rubber Ball (such an appropriate name!) has earned himself a reduction!

Look at him workin that juice!
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58

Our boy is at 73 now. I won't do anything until I hear from you, since 73 seems pretty safe. When should I test again? Do I feed?
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

heehee tonight's dose . . . . well, when a newly diagnosed cat goes below 50, we reduce. So the next smaller dose is one drop or 0.1u. Depending on your syringes that can be challenging to measure.

don't feed him now - retest 30-45 to make sure it's staying up. if so you can stretch out the testing times after that.

I'll get some info to you on the dose in a minute.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

From yesterday's post to Juju:
julie & punkin (ga) said:
There is one smaller dose than the 0.25u - 0.1u. You can look at the pictures on the New to the Group? sticky. I'm not sure what syringes you are using. Some syringes have a narrower barrel than others and are easier to draw up this dose. What brand do you have?

Would you look at those pictures and see if you can work at a dose of 0.1u? That is one drop. There are 2 ways to draw up that dose. One way is to draw up 1.0u, point the needle to the ceiling and try to "screw" the plunger and see if you can work out 10 drops. With some practice, some people can succeed at that. You'll have to be able to repeat the process a couple of times until you are confident you can leave 1 drop in the syringe.

Another way to do it is to take your syringe, press the plunger in hard (you're expelling any air) and while holding the plunger in, insert the needle into your insulin. Release the plunger and it will draw in a tiny drop. Remove the needle from the insulin and push the plunger to see if a drop comes out.
Click to expand...

and Jill's response:
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Would you look at those pictures and see if you can work at a dose of 0.1u? That is one drop. There are 2 ways to draw up that dose. One way is to draw up 1.0u, point the needle to the ceiling and try to "screw" the plunger and see if you can work out 10 drops. With some practice, some people can succeed at that. You'll have to be able to repeat the process a couple of times until you are confident you can leave 1 drop in the syringe.
Click to expand...
here's a picture of 0.1 unit:

01unit-1.jpg


julie & punkin (ga) said:
Another way to do it is to take your syringe, press the plunger in hard (you're expelling any air) and while holding the plunger in, insert the needle into your insulin. Release the plunger and it will draw in a tiny drop. Remove the needle from the insulin and push the plunger to see if a drop comes out
Click to expand...
actually what julie has described here is considered "some" insulin. here's a picture of "some" insulin:

someinsulin-1.jpg


"some insulin" is just a little bit less than 0.1 unit. some people will eyeball it. others will press the plunger in and while holding the plunger in, insert the needle into their insulin. when the plunger is released it will draw in a tiny drop.


measuring tiny doses can be challenging, but hope this helps a little...
Click to expand...

Which way you go is going to depend on what you can successfully do with your particular syringes. The point is to reduce the 0.25u dose and make it a dose you can replicate again - consistency in dosing is important. So practice today - tea, coffee, colored water will all help you be able to see what you're doing a little bit better.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

Mary, I've got a memorial service to go to shortly, so am not going to be able to check back in on you this morning. If you need help, put it in your subject line and I'm sure someone will be able to help you. I think you've got this and I'd guess that this late in the cycle with a 73, Mikey is probably not going to go back under 50 again. Never say never with these kitties, but you're likely ok. One more test will confirm it for you - if he goes back down, you'll want to keep testing.

Good job this morning! :mrgreen:
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

Let me see if I can get this right. Despite yesterdays high numbers which were probably a bounce, Mikey the Rubber Ball has earned a reduction, because he went below a 50, and we dose Lantis by the nadir/low. This is actually a good thing, and can probably be attributed to his going off dry food and on to all low carb wet. Although this was a bit nerve wracking, it's good news?

I've been watching JuJu's condo, so I just read that information about drawing up .1 this morning. I'm going to go practice now. I figure I have six hours to figure it out! lol

Will I be able to go out to run errands later? Don will be home, but I'm better at monitoring things. I can put them off until tomorrow, if I need to, but it would be good to be able to plan.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

Hi Mary!!

Congrats on the reduction for little RB!

I'd do two things:
--make Don learn how to test (sorry, Don, old pal of mine)
--be sure Mikey is on the way up before you go out and if you are gone longer than an hour or so, call Don and make him test :lol: :lol:

Note to members: Mary and Don are long time friends of ours hence my joking with them.

Usually Mikey's patterns don't have him coming way back down after nadir but we don't know how full his depot is. If he's still on the way up before you leave but is green, you've probably got a couple hours. If he's surfing, I'd either limit the time away or get Don to test.

BTW, my LBG was 75 at AMPS and 33 at +2 :shock: she was curled up beside me happy as a clam. No clue she had dropped. Lil Stinka.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

yes, you've got it right. it's so counter-intuitive, isn't it?! But the important thing about dosing with Lantus is how low the dose takes a cat. His high numbers yesterday weren't from not-enough insulin, but from his body's reaction to the normal numbers. That's a temporary condition that doesn't require more insulin.

Differentiating the reason for high numbers is really important. Mikey is not getting insufficient insulin. His dip below 50 today tells us that. So you reduce.

I think once you see that he's holding steady or rising, you can go out. You just want to be past the nadir and at least an hour or so past giving high carbs before you relax. I think you're already past an hour, so as long as it's past the nadir - which you'll know because he won't start going down again - then you could go out til pmps.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

hahaha i see marje and i posted at the same time. she's got a good idea about having Don test if it's more than a couple of hours. a little bit of insurance for you.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

And I might be over cautious because I can't trust "you-know-who" ;-)
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

Thanks, Marje and Julie! Don knows how to test. I'm just being an overprotective, controlling mother wanting to do it myself. If he reads this, he'll be rolling his eyes. I can do 2 out of three errands in very short spurts, with trips home in between. I'll plan on doing that. The other errand I'll call later in the afternoon. I'm so hoping this whole day is pointing to hope that Mikey will eventually go into remission. I'll be testing shortly, and will post his number.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

Our RB is 168 at +6. Is this normal cycle, bounce, or Mikey being weird? I'm going on the first errand, and will be back in an hour. If I'm not Don will test, and I will post when I get in.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

I think you don't need to rush back, Mary. I think he might be headed for a bounce so just go out and enjoy your time.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +2 235 +4 66 +4.5 48 +5 58 +5.5 73

He's 208 now at 7.5ish. Is that a bounce?

I also have a question about dosing .1 tonight. I had no problem getting one drop with my syringes, but when I push the drop back out, it kind of hangs there rather than fall off. I had to ping the syringe with my fingers to get it to let go. Do I need to get Don to ping it when it's actually in Mikey. I'm not so sure Mikey will be too thrilled about that. Not that he has a choice...
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +7.5 208 after being too low

That is definitely a bounce.

I've never had to ping the syringe with a drop on it once it's in Gracie. I usually withdraw the syringe slowly so the drop stays in her as I pull the syringe out.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +7.5 208 after being too low

Mary

One other note, too. A drop is not equal to 0.1u. That's the point of Jill's post from JuJu's condo yesterday. When I give Gracie R, I will either give her a drop (using the drop method), or I'll give her 0.05u or on rare occasion, 0.1u. I use the calipers to draw the latter two doses because I can actually see insulin in the barrel with those doses. When I draw a drop by inserting the needle and letting go of the plunger, there is no insulin evident in the barrel. It doesn't look like the plunger has moved at all but I know it moved just enough to draw in a drop. If you take Mikey from 0.25u to a drop, it's too big of a reduction. A reduction of 0.25u to 0.1u is a 50% reduction so taking it to a drop is even more.

I'd try to draw the 0.1u dose using the syringe picture provided.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +7.5 208 after being too low

I'm practicing, but it seems pretty hard to control. RB is enjoying chasing the tea I'm squirting out, at least. I'm so afraid I'm going to end up getting nothing into him. Deep breaths!
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 AMPS 364, +7.5 208 after being too low

Yes...it can be because the syringes vary so much. That's why I absolutely must use calipers. I could never do it accurately without them because I'm not good at measuring by eyeball.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417

Our Rubber Ball seemed to level out from +10 to PMPS. I shot .1. (I hope!) Do I need to get a +1, or is ok to wait until my usual +2? Is he likely to "unbounce" tonight and go flying down?
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417

You can wait for a +2. A +1 is good if you are shooting low, no need tonight. :lol:
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417

Thanks, Wendy. Mikey is draped across my arm snoozing right now. All that poking, and he's still a happy guy.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417 +2 259

259 at +2. After this morning performance, I think I'll test again before bed, which will around +3.5. Maybe a bit earlier... I'm sweating that I might not have measured the right amount of insulin, despite a whole lot of practicing with tea.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417 +2 259 +3 146

A couple tsp of LC would be a good idea. Any chance of getting a +4 tonight? Wouldn't want him to continue dropping at the same rate. Due to the nature of the Lantus depot, the bigger dose (.25U) can influence some of the cycles following a decrease.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417 +2 259 +3 146

I will try to stay up for a +4. Give some LC now. Mikey is thrill to be getting more kitty crack!
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417 +2 259 +3 146

Paws crossed he decided blues are where it's at tonight. It's amazing that he's gotten over the bounce for the lows that quickly.

Did anyone ever tell you that an essential part of the hypo kit is the chocolate for the bean? You did a great job today Mary - make sure you reward yourself.
 
Re: Mikey 11/8 PMPS 417 +2 259 +3 146

What happens if he goes below 50 again? There is no lower measurable dose then .1 is there? When I'm not freaked out, this whole thing is fascinating to me. Don says I should've been a vet. lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top