Migs' sugar dance becomes a dance with stomach trouble

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Laszlo

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So he has pretty awful diarrhoea. It's been going since Friday, but today has reached liquid state. Vet unsure, but we are doing a blood panel, and he has some pro-Kolin. This level of diarrhoea is unusual for him though very loose stools have not been that unusual. He certainly isn't that happy today, lethargic and depressed.

We may have had a fur shot his morning and he has become quite difficult to shoot.

Personally feeling very low :(.
 
Not sure what's available in the UK, but look for the probiotic Saccharomyces Boulardii (brand name Florastor in US). It works great on diarrhea. @Bobbie And Bubba may be able to give you more info.
 
Hey there and sorry about the diarrhea. We can get the brand Florastor in the states. It can be put directly in their food and they don't detect it. A therapeutic dose is 1/2 capsules twice daily. Then maintenance dose of 1/4 capsule twice daily .

There is another brand called Jarrow which is a lot cheaper and you can get online, but it has something called MOS in it which is :

(MannanOligoSaccharides) MOS, is an oligosaccharide from the cell walls of S. cerevisiae that can discourage bacteria from adhering to the epithelial cells and reduce their proliferation. The MOS makes the food bitter and you would need to put the dose in gel caps to pill your baby.

The Florastor is what I used along with slippery elm and I got such great results in one day. Hope this information helps.
 
AMPS 19.6. Shot 2.25.

Two 'episodes' overnight. They are a bit better than yesterday (I did manage to get some pro-Kolin in last night), more like pancake batter than liquid (sorry TMI!). unfortunately he's gone off his normal food - I guess he figures it's giving him trouble. I've had to move him on to gourmet gold pâté. Huge appetite, which is something. He's lost 300g (down to 4.2) as well, which is worrying but part of that will be the diarrhea when vet tested. Waiting on bloods today.
 
Trust me the texture of poop has been a conversation here before! This is the place where people will celebrate those things with you rather than giving strange looks. :p
 
+8 13.9 - possible nadir before this a bit lower.? Not enough data to know yet. He is having a good few hours though...

Vet would like an increase to 2.5. I will do so probably tomorrow AM when I can monitor. He has low potassium apparently, and elevated urea - could be some renal issues as well on the horizon (as if a dodgy liver, diabetes and diarrhoea isn't enough!!). Going to start a supplement (not sure what it is yet as haven't picked it up).
 
Up to you, but it looks like you have only been on 2.25 for 2 cycles when the midcycles were yellow and blue. The higher cycles were when you went back to 2. I'd give 2.25 a few more cycles if he were mine.
 
That's my instinct too, and I'll be shooting 2.25 until I can do more testing.

Vet has given me Kaminox to try and supplement potassium.

However, I do have another question. With the diarrhea, he's stopped eating his normal food (Thrive) which is a bit frustrating since changing his diet sometimes (though not always) gives him a slightly loose stool and that's exactly the problem here.

This morning, I fed him Gourmet Gold Pate which is <10% carbs but has mixed results from a quick search on here. So tonight I have the option to feed him Gourmet Gold again or m/d. My vet was giving me quite a bit of pressure about the m/d when I spoke to him before, saying I shouldn't have changed him off it in the first place, which obviously makes me feel about 2cm tall. Thoughts?
 
What did the vet expect you to do? Diet is most likely to cause diarrhea upsets. The DM is also heavily liver based. Wonder if that caused a problem over time with his tummy? It'looks be nice to see if the new food helps. If it is higher in carbs than you want, keep looking for another lower carb brand/flavor.

I'd feed what you want. You vet doesn't help you open the cans and won't know. :p If it comes up later and you've switched, use the universal " he stopped eating that food". Knowing cats, no one can argue with that.
 
:) - thanks, I think I'll stick with Gourmet Gold, and see how he goes.

The story here is that when he was diagnosed, the vet said he should go on m/d. So I dutifully did so. He had a DKA episode about a month ago where he almost died, but they did resurrect him and kept him on m/d. When I got him home, I found this forum and indeed some of the published studies which all suggest <10% carbs, so I moved him on to Thrive. This was about 3 weeks ago, no diarrhea, no issues. He has now obviously gone off Thrive (and I don't discount he could have become intolerant to it for some reason), and will try the Gourmet Gold. It fits the bill, but I note that some on the forum here have found it spikes glucose.
 
Yes I have thank you, Gourmet Gold Pate's are on that list :)

He is doing much better tonight, absolutely hoovered his gourmet gold in 5 minutes and spent 10 minutes licking the remains. Has been incredibly bright and alert all afternoon with all his normal routine of behaviours, including spending some quality time with me. He's certainly feeling more sprightly this afternoon in comparison to this morning or last night.
 
Actually, the site is www.felineconstipation.org
It explains the feline GI tract from end to end, how to know what is normal, and how to intervene if constipation happens.

For many cats, fiber will help soak up excess moisture and provide some form to the feces, as well as hold moisture in the bowel to help soften hard feces. Options include plain psyllium powder and plain canned pumpkin.
 
Thank you, that is indeed interesting reading.

Well celebration short lived, large volume overnight. Florastor arrives today.

I think plain psyllium husk might be easily findable around here.
 
Sorry I didn't see the tag until now - I don't have anything to add to what others have said - Murphy doesn't get diarrhea too often
I know we have hit you with a lot of websites - I use www.idbkitties.net - I would try the florastor as Bobbie suggested - I have never had to use that - but have used pumpkin, psyllium powder

I am so happy that Migs is doing better.. Are you putting lots of extra water in the wet food? After all the diarrhea, she may need some extra fluids. A lot of potassium can be lost with diarrhea (at least with humans) , so hopefully the low K is due to that
Hope to see continued improvement
 
Laszlo said:
Waiting on bloods today.
Click to expand...
Hi Laszlo,

Just browsing some of the threads and read about Migs' diarrhoea problems.

If you need to get slippery elm bark try Neal's Yard online. I'd suggest giving them a ring first to make sure that their current batch is organic in origin. They're very helpful.

If you use psyllium husk use it sparingly because it can really bulk up stools. If you're looking for canned plain pumpkin there are a couple of vendors who offer it on Amazon UK. (If trying the pumpkin do it very slowly; it can disagree with some cats and make diarrhoea worse.)

In addition to some of the suggestions above, a course of B12 injections can help with GI issues (check out the B12 info on IBDKitties.net for further details).

Did your vet run a test for pancreatitis as part of the blood work-up?

I hope Migs feels better very soon.


Mogs
.
 
Thank you so much for the help.

We went to see the vet at the hospital yesterday as our normal vet is on leave and her replacement was frankly condescending and rude. He also seemed to have absolutely no idea about how to manage FD or such a complex case.

The vet at the hospital looked after him during the DKA.

So bloods came back - pancreas was tested and in normal ranges. Potassium low (starting kaminox), liver ALT still very high (500) and urea was high (but dehydration suspected).

The hospital vet discussed where we could go from here. We didn't feel another £2-3k of diagnostics was really the way forward here (£600 in vet bills this week alone -£5k during DKA and he's not insured) and she also agreed probably not going to find anything since they did most of these tests only 3 weeks ago to no result. She suggested we try B12 shots, antibiotics and she's given some antinausea pills (he has been nauseous after eating - no vomiting yet though), along with Fortiflora. The concerns here are really that with something going on in the liver, potentially something with the kidney and newly discovered yesterday was a galloping heart beat, what connects these things? It's heartbreaking but I can't put him through much more.

So we have started him on that lot and see if we can make some improvement and go from there. Florastor arrived and I started him last night (concurrently with fortiflora, I figure another bacterium can't interfere).

I don't want to 'jinx' it, but overnight he only produced a tablespoon or so of semi formed business, so that's the best situation in 3 days, he seems a lot happier this morning so we must once again 'wait and see'. Sadly he's stopped eating almost anything except canned hills m/d now, which he hoovers with great relish. It's not ideal but at this point I just need him eating something and keeping it in long enough to get nutrition.

Vet also explained insulin resistance when you have inflammation, which tallies with why yesterday and Tuesday although he was shot correctly produced almost no discernible drop in BG (these were his 2 worst days).

AMPS 26.6 - shot 2.5.

Once again, thank you for the resources. This community of strangers is just incredible, I'm blown away by everyone's willingness to help. I don't think he would have made it this far without you all.
 
Glad he is doing a little better poop wise. But, hope you can get him back on lower carb food. Two steps forward, one step back = the sugar dance!
 
Ok so still no sign of a stool = more than 24 hours since the last so this is great news. But oh. My. God. M/d has given us a spike. 29.6 PMPS. Highest I've ever recorded. Giving 2.75 as not at all worried about dropping too low at this point. He will have to have m/d for breakfast but hoping to move him on to lower carb food for PM tomorrow after I visit the pet shop (probably Lily's kitchen - as he's really off the thrive).

Possibly two steps back one step forward at this point but frankly so glad we are keeping nutrition inside him now.
 
Good to know that m/d definitively gives us higher BG though! I know we all knew that but lovely to have data to provide the vet.
 
Hope you can find some lower carb he likes. You might mix the MD with it for a while 50/50 if he is reluctant, gradually lowering the amount of MD.
 
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