Method of carb calculatiion

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Hosanna

Hosanna

Member Since 2012
It has come to my attention that many people feel that the most accurate way to calculate carbohydrate content is by caloric distribution, not on an as fed basis or dry matter basis, and that Weruva's formulas are much higher in carbs if you do that caloric calculation For example the Steak Frites flavor (which I do not feed...) is 4.7% carbs based on as fed or DMB, but based on caloric distribution. the average analysis from Weruva would actually be 23.4%. Martha eats Paw Lickin Chicken as the bulk of her diet, and if I'm feeding her 23.4% carbs, we're in deep trouble!
Does anyone have a take on this?
 
Yikes! I know that Amy&Trixie Cat and Ann&Maggie are looking at Weruva because of the supposedly low carbs and low phosphorus for kidney issues. They have both noticed a spike in BGs. This could be the explanation.
Liz
 
Liz, I sincerely, truly hope this is not the case for their increased hikes. I hope it's not the case for Weruva. Martha has had some hikes also, but we've attributed them to her having to go back on steroids. Both my cats love this food, there has to be some way to get to the bottom line on all this. I hope we'll get some responses from others on here who might have the "skinny."
 
It's my understanding that the calculations in Janet & Binky's list as well as Dr. Lisa's "update" and expansion of that list are all based on the "as fed" values. I think that any of the other lists that have been used here (e.g., Hobo's list, along with the nutritional guide) were all based on "as fed" calculations. I can't recall if it was Anne/Tess or Ann/Maggie who has had experience with doing the carb calcluations for raw food before they were available.
 
Liz, I sincerely, truly hope this is not the case for their increased hikes. I hope it's not the case for Weruva. Martha has had some hikes also, but we've attributed them to her having to go back on steroids. Both my cats love this food, there has to be some way to get to the bottom line on all this. I hope we'll get some responses from others on here who might have the "skinny."
 
My only take on this with regards to carbs vs. numbers is simply this... The lower the carbs, the better the numbers over time. If you decide to switch Martha to a lower carb food, say a wet food other than raw, you may see some better numbers, perhaps numbers in the green range.
 
Martha is on ALL canned foods. She hasn't had a dry morsel in close to a year now.
I was feeding her some Stella & Chewy's dehydrated, but it looks like that is high carb, also.
 
All the carb %s in both J&B's list and Dr. Lisa's new list are Metabolized Energy (ME) or caloric distribution. You start the calculations off with the As Fed numbers (NOT the Guaranteed Analysis numbers on the cans), take out the % water and get the Dry Matter then calculate the ME from that.

That 4.7% carbs must be based on As Fed not DMB and the water in the food is making it look lower. Dr Lisa's list shows DMB for Paw Lickin Chicken as 31% and ME at 29%. (She shows both ME and DMB in the new list.) All the Weruva flavors are there, just check the list.

Sienne, what I calculated out was raw homemade food. I did it w/ my own supplements and w/ TCFeline supplement powder, but that formula has changed and it was too high in Phosphorus anyway. It's still a tab on Tess's SS though.

I do have a SS on my computer that I can use to calculate the carbs in foods not on the list. The problem is in getting the right and complete set of numbers form the companies. Usually whoever you talk to on the phone has little actual knowledge or understanding of what you are asking for. If anyone want the SS I'll see if I can upload it to Google docs, I don't want to bog down the board.
 
Sorry if this has been addressed...but I have links to two different charts/numbers.

The one with Weruva higher carbs showing is on this link under health http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=88162 -with the link http://felinediabetes.com/Pierson_Food_Chart.pdf
Note from Rebecca: The most recent Food Chart by Dr. Lisa is at http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. I've updated the link in the Health Links Forum and on the main website. Please update any bookmarks you may have.

When I click on the "protein/fat/carbs chart" on catinfo.org, it gives me one with lower Weruva carbs- http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf.

Just wondering since I recently started adding the paw lickin' chicken to my mix of foods if anyone knows which chart is the most recent, both have the same dates on them (September 2012) but maybe I'm missing something somewhere. Sorry if this answer is somewhere already in a post, I've been searching :? or is there another chart somewhere?

Edited: I do see that Weruva has listed their ME, As Fed, Dry Matter Basis, and mineral content per 100 kcal on their website for their flavors and the carbs look ok for some including the paw lickin' chicken...
 
If I had to guess, I would think that Dr. Lisa's 9/22 chart is the most current.

Ann - thanks for the offer. I referenced your calculations since I knew you went to a great deal of trouble to look into how to calculate carbs correctly and to get the as fed data (including for the raw).
 
Looking on Lisa's chart under Weruva, I do not see anything that I feed my cats as having these high #s of carbs. I see "3" for caloric and 4 for DMB for Paw Lickin Chicken.
What am I missing?
 
I just updated my own shopping list for everyone on main forum. The values all come from Dr. Lisa's updated list..... The weruva wasn't on it originally when she first posted so I think
the values are the most current. Nutro ( as footnoted) has also come out with a new line and the senior line is supposedly all 1 %, 2% or 3%. I haven't had that confirmed yet but
I did send Dr. Lisa an email that there were new foods.... Nutro has changed all their lines trying to go lower carb and grain free.

shortcut list all less than 8% There are a couple of 9% on the list because my cat eats them occasionally.
 
I see the Paw Lickin Chicken as 29% carbs on caloric and 31% DMB on Sept. 22nd version of Dr. Lisa's chart that I'm using. Most of the Weruva flavors are high in carbs.
 
Looking on Lisa's chart under Weruva, I do not see anything that I feed my cats as having these high #s of carbs. I see "3" for caloric and 4 for DMB for Paw Lickin Chicken.
What am I missing?
 
Thanks. I downloaded the chart you just sent me and see the huge differences. But both charts seem to be dated September 2012, based on "Data provided by the respective companies - June - September 2012." This really needs to be resolved with Dr. Lisa, because if some of our cats, like Anne & Zener, have BGs going upward, and if it's because of misunderstanding around these charts, that is sad news.
Martha eats LOTS of Paw Lickin Chicken, and I've been so thrilled. Her BGs have been going upward, but we have attributed that to having to put her back on budesonide because of IBD issues. Man, what a deal.
 
Considering that both charts are the same date, IF there is a time stamp on both charts when the charts have been updated, I would think that the one that is newest time stamp is the correct one. Perhaps...
 
Hi again:) I scrolled through both chart links (that I have in my above post) and I think the one with 9-22 in the title from the link on her website-this one: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf is the more current one (it also matches what is on the Weruva website).

That is only based on the fact it has 35 pages instead of the 31 on the other one, and on page 34 it says "still waiting for data as of 10-4-12". The other one that is off this website link has page 31 as "still waiting for data as of 9-22-12". I don't see a time stamp on either but I'm not sure what to look for...I can email and ask her.
 
Angela--transition her to something lower carb? Well, at this point, I have no idea what that might be, not with such discrepancies in the charts. I thought I had her on 4% carb until all the confusion. What do you recommend?
 
Ann and Maggie--that's also the chart I've been using, which is why I've been sooooo thrilled with Paw Licking Chicken. I wonder how that other chart got thrown into the mix? Maybe Lisa will respond and solve the mystery. I hate to keep harping on this but carbs are so vital to our compromised kitties.
 
Several months ago I changed the file name of the food chart slightly. At that time, I immediately let Rebecca know about the file name change and to update the link. Possibly some links did not get updated with the new file name.

With regard to Weruva, that whole issue was a time-consuming pain in the rear end. The owner of the company gave me original values that showed the carb content of the foods as being very high. The values he gave me were the same ones that were on his website at the time.

I told him his foods were too high in carbohydrates but he then stated they did not feel the values were correct. I said "well, those are the values you provided for me and are the values you are providing on your website. If you do not think they are correct, then please provide me with data from a laboratory analysis showing otherwise."

A couple of months ago, he provided me with new values and updated his website with those same values. Therefore, you will note that the current values are lower for this company in the carbohydrate column.

I am very sorry for the confusion and I have learned my lesson to never change the name of a file because although it will always be current on my website, stupid me forgot that there are links floating around out there that I cannot control.
 
Thank you so much Lisa for clarifying, and for all your hard work on this and on the cat info on your website, you are awesome! I can only imagine what a pain it must have been to get all that information, it is so appreciated. I have a shortcut on my desktop to the chart on your website, I figured that would be the current one but wanted to make sure:) I see that Rhiannon emailed you too, sorry you got it in two emails, I didn't specify in my post that I was emailing too, lol. Have a great day :-D
 
raeifo said:
I have a shortcut on my desktop to the chart on your website, I figured that would be the current one but wanted to make sure:)
Click to expand...

Correct – always go to my website for the most current data.

I have a lot of people that want to put my content on their own website and, of course, this is denied not only due to basic copyright issues but because I update my site frequently and I can't update someone else's site.

That said, I sure learned a lesson about changing file names! Unfortunately, they didn't teach us anything about web design and management in vet school. :-D Heck, when I was in vet school (1980-1984) the home computer was just starting to be all the rage. Yes, I am old......
 
Lisa, you are indeed wonderful for all the work you put into this. It definitely shows your love for critters!
Do you know where that "new" (or "old") chart came from? Why it suddenly appeared out of nowhere, so to speak? The chart I am referring to lists carb count for Weruva Paw Licking Chicken as 29%. When that popped up, it seems that's where all the confusion started.
Thank you for all you do for the rest of us!
 
I must be blind but when I visit this board I never see an obvious link to any food chart – to mine or Janet's older chart.

Where is the link to my chart on this site? Sorry if I'm being blind but I never see an obvious link to the food charts but maybe I just have not looked carefully enough.....

I'm going to go look again now.
 
The one I saw was on the health links page but there could be others...


From Rebecca: The Health Links forum has the correct link now. I've searched for others on the main page and think I have them all corrected. It simply isn't practical to go back and correct links in older posts, however.
 
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