Melville insulin reduction test

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ericbakes

ericbakes

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Just to recap: after a disappointing visit to the vet last week, I put Melville back on 2 units, inching slowly upwards to 2.1, then 2.2. This yielded high PS numbers and relatively consistent yellows, sometimes dipping into blue. These were not the result I wanted, so, based on previous data and some thoughtful advice from other ProZinc users, I decided to test out 1.25 units again, which is when Melville saw his best numbers.

Unfortunately, after two cycles, he seems to be worse off at 1.25 units. I am considering forgoing the third cycle of the test and bumping him back up to 2.2. I would appreciate once again hearing your opinions. Would you give it more time at the lower dose?
 
hi eric
ok here is what I amthinking
in looking at your ss, I would bring Melville back up
and if you have a red preshot I would shoot the 2 units
if he is blue or yellow I would reduce to maybe 1.8 to see what happnes
What I noticed is that you were shooting the same amount into a blue preshot
as you would into a red spreshot
ususally I would reduce when that happnes
just my opinion
 
Melville's SS is definitely not textbook. That is for sure. On a few occasions he has shot 2U into a red preshot, but the dose took Melville so low that he was unable to shoot on the next cycle... No curve, no upswing at all. Seems like that 2U may be a bit on the mean side. It's really puzzling.
On 1/2 for example, BG was 461,the PMPS shot was moved forward 1 hr because PMPS came in so high. 2U was given and +12 was at 87 (WTH?).
On 1/12 BG was 465, 2U given and nadir was +12 @155.
IDK...
2u brings him so long and so low.
It's really puzzling.
 
Puzzling is definitely the word. Along with all the regular kitty variables, I wonder if there might be two more: meter and injection mistakes.

Today, I came up with some crazy numbers on the meter. For example, at 11:55am, he was at 417. 12:20pm, 269. 12:47pm 313. Something's not right, and I suspect that it's the meter.

As far as injection mistakes, I've only been able to confirm one fur shot. However, Melville has become extremely cantankerous with his shots. There are times, like tonight, that he squirms and so much that it's a wonder he hasn't run off with the syringe still in his body. He also bites (but does not break skin) when we give him his shot. I can't help but think that I'm doing something wrong that would cause him pain *and* render the insulin less effective (perhaps shooting into the skin instead of under, into the muscle, or into some alternate dimension...).

The only measurable variable that tends to yield consistent results is the amount he eats. On my chart, I made a column that shows his total food intake for the previous day. When this is lower (say, 140g) he does well. When he eats more, it's usually bad. 140g is only 174 calories, which is just shy of 14 calories per pound (Melville currently weighs 12.5 pounds). This is lower than the 15 cal/lb/day that Dr. Lisa says is necessary to maintain a healthy weight (http://www.catinfo.org/). Plus, when he's howling for food, I just can't turn him down.

I wish I could report better news. I hate being the Debbie Downer.
 
Eric, you are not being a Debbie Downer. We are all invested in brainstorming with you to understand what is going on with Melville. In regard to the meter reads. Yes, something funky may be going on but Teresa kindly reminded me of that annoying 20% variance. Doing quick math here without a calculator shows this:
  • Lower 20%---------------Your BG#------------Higher 20%
  • 355--------------------------417------------------------499​
  • 212--------------------------269------------------------321​
  • 251--------------------------313------------------------375​

Looking at it like this shows that the reads could be very similiar. More so on the last 2 reads that you took. Not much difference when we factor in that annoying 20%. Unless I am understanding this the wrong way. (I'll toss in the disclaimer that I'm new and may be wrong here).

What kind of syringe are you using? U40's? I have found that switching to U100's, if you have not, may be beneficial as it has a shorter needle. Jax felt the longer U40 needle upon insertion but doesn't hardly blink on the U100.

I agree that when they are complaining to be fed it is hard to turn a deaf ear if not impossible.
 
Lisa, we're shooting generally on his sides and back, but not his scruff. I'm tenting as best I can, and I try to do the injection at the bottom of the tent at an angle. I'm sure we're probably doing it right, but in the heat of battle, it feels like nothing is right. Our timing probably off, too. I've been trying to test, shoot, feed all in one go, and when Melville's hungry, and I'm just walking in the door from work, and we're hell-bent on giving him a shot... well, of course he's going to squirm. Perhaps I need to go back to test, feed, let him relax, then shoot.

To answer your question, we're using u40 syringes, but I have some u100s with short needles on order. Looking forward to giving those a try.

By the way, I really like your chart, Lisa. It's important for me to keep that 20% in perspective. Plus, it gives me an idea for a type of spreadsheet that shows BG ranges on a continuum.

Thanks for your support!

Eric
 
FWIW, my schedule was, get up, let the drooler out, test, let drooler in, fix kitty breakfast, fix drooler breakfast, fill syringe, take coffee/tea to sofa log on and wait for him to come back into livingroom and take a bath, when he settled onto his favorite spot again, I shot and went on with my day. No fuss, no muss.
 
lol. "Drooler." Took me a minute to figure that out. :)

I like that routine, Robin. I just might have to make some adjustments.
 
:lol: :lol: :lol: Robin

Hi Eric an Melville :smile:

Eric my callie use to give me the business when it was shot time nailbite_smile I use to have a panic attack every time :shock: what I started to do is give callie just the tip of a teaspoon of tuna before shot and after shot now after she eats the first little treat she lays down and waits for her shot and then gets another bite of tuna ;-) I put callie on the counter to test and shoot , when I give her a shot she lays on a little green rug ( so she is nice an comfey) also Eric make sure when you tent and shoot your hand is level to his body not pointed alittle up or down if this makes sense, I hope this helps :YMHUG: I've been giving callie shots for 7 months and we still have our days !! you are doing great !

callie and marty!
 
Eric, wondered what size needles you are using? I use the 5/16" needle and my copper doesn't even know when i put it in. He usually sleeps right through it or if awake he looks at me like, what are you doing lady ? Another suggestion, maybe test then feed and give shot after he is down eating. Melville will be calmer to receive his shot then. Just thoughts.

Good Luck. Lol

lori
 
I'm sure melville will be happier with the 5/16". Copper didn't like the 1/2" and always flintch when i would shoot him. Changed within a few days and he is fine now with it.

Hope those new neddles come in soon!

lori
 
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