Martin's vet visit & next steps

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Diana & Martin

Diana & Martin

Member Since 2022
Hi everyone, we're just coming back from our vet visit. The very first thing the vet told me as I was telling him Martin's clinical history was "we need to change his insulin" and put him on Prozinc 2 IU starting today (previous insulin was Catinsulin 3 IU). He explained basically everything that I've been reading here thanks to all of you guys' amazing information and said that although cats (esp with steroid-induced diabetes) have high chances of remission, Catinsulin rarely achieves that. He said that the vomiting over the past three days was likely due to the extremely high BG levels but that this new insulin should start to improve that. He also taught me how to do a BG curve and asked me to do one on Monday and email it to him to assess and adjust dosing. As I mentioned on my last post, we weren't told about home testing so I didn't have any data to show him other than Martin's very first reading, which was this morning.

Now that we are apparently down a better path, I'm wondering if we should make any adjustments to his diet? He Free eats Hills renal dry food (the amount specified for a 5 kg cat) throughout the day, and I give him a spoon or two of Royal Canin wet diabetes food before the shot, though he rarely finishes the entire serving so I'm starting to think he doesn't like the taste. The vet also mentioned that it's not really necessary to feed him before the shot so long as he's eaten his dry food and has enough available to graze, but I kind of rather keep giving him a little wet food to make sure he has something in his stomach pre shot. Is this correct? Any dietary advice is greatly appreciated!

Also, forgot to mention that they did blood analysis and everything looked fantastic except glucose and cholesterol levels.
 
There are a couple of bits of information you may want to consider.

The dry food that you're feeding your cat is exceptionally high in carbohydrates (37.6% from the Hill's website). Think of it like feeding your diabetic cat cookies. We consider food that is below 10% low carb and over 15% high carb. In addition, cats are obligate carnivores. Their bodies can't process carbohydrates. In addition, the ingredients are truly terrible -- up to and including powdered cellulose (the polite name for sawdust). While you may be feeding a "renal" food, getting your cat transitioned to a canned food diet will be far better for his kidneys. Any food with a high moisture content will be kidney friendly. If your cat has kidney issues, a diet that is lower in phosphorus is what is important.

This is a link to a food chart that contains most of the canned foods available along with nutritional information including carbohydrates. You have a wide range of choices for foods that are low in carbs. There is nothing "prescription" in the majority of prescription foods. In fact, there was a class action suit against the pet food manufacturers for calling foods, including diabetic diets, prescription. The manufacturers lost the suit. Please consider choosing a food that is low in carbs. Most of the folks here feed their cat foods that are in the 5% range.

One word of caution. If you transition your cat to a lower carb diet, please test. The switch to a lower carb food can have a dramatic effect on blood glucose numbers.

Canninsulin (not Catinsulin) is not a great insulin for cats. It was developed for dogs so congratulations on the switch to Prozinc. It's among the types of insulin that are best suited to a cat's fast metabolism. You can find great information about Prozinc and how it work in the link that Kyle provided above.
 
Location added to signature, thanks for the suggestion Diane!

I figured as much about the food. Vet told us it wasn't necessary to change it because Hill's renal is so low cal and restricted, he said, but I had a hunch that maybe the food wasn't the most appropriate. A little over a year ago we changed from Hills dental because Martin's always had Tartar issues, and in retrospective I can see that his weight gain before the FD diagnosis also happened around that time. He doesn't have any renal issues, the vet only put him on that food because of his age (he said that older cats tend to develop kidney issues, so he suggested it as kind of a preventive measure)

He's always been a huge water drinker, even before the diabetes, so I'm wondering whether a low carb dry food (if there's even such a thing?) would be appropriate? I try to feed him a spoon or two of Royal Canin diabetic wet food and I can tell he absolutely hates it, so I don't think he'll tolerate a 100% wet diet.

Also, we only started home testing yesterday, so I know this absolutely too little data to really tell anything, but if anyone had any observations that'd be great. I'll also be setting up the spreadsheet once I sit down in my computer.

Home readings:

(8/12) 10:10 am: 531 (no insulin for 24 hours prior to this because we were visiting the vet in the afternoon)

(8/13) 11:10 am: 374 (pre shot. Not sure when was the last time he ate since he free feeds)
(8/13) 1:25 pm: 229 (+1 hrs post shot -- first Prozinc shot 2IU. was on Caninsulin 3 IU before)
(8/13) 5:30 pm: 236 (+6 hrs post shot)

Will test again pre shot tonight. Vet asked me to do first curve on Monday.
 
Here's a food list for the UK but many of these foods are available in Europe. It's a good place to start. We like to stay with 6% carbs or less
When changing to a lower carb diet you need to do it slowly and monitor frequently because switching to a lower carb diet and drop the BG number can drop by 100 points
 
To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine

If you need help with the spreadsheet just ask we have a member who will be happy to do it for you
 
I don't know if they ship to Spain but you can call them and ask these are about 5-6 % carbs
As far as lc dry You can try
Dr Elsey's chicken flavor and young again zero will send you samples just call them
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE




Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90

Dr Elsey's web site
https://www.drelseys.com

Here is their web site
https://www.wysong.net/epigen
Call then see if they will send a sample
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here's a food list for the UK but many of these foods are available in Europe. It's a good place to start. We like to stay with 6% carbs or less
When changing to a lower carb diet you need to do it slowly and monitor frequently because switching to a lower carb diet and drop the BG number can drop by 100 points
Click to expand...

thank you! I'll be taking this list to the pet store with me on Monday. I recognize a few names so hopefully I'll find something more suitable for his current needs.

When you say doing it slowly, should I mix a portion, say half or less, of the new low cal kibble with his current one? How often should I test while transitioning?
 
So you plan on feeding dry only?
I don't think they sell any of the kibble list I gave you
If you plan on switching to an all wet low carb diet

TRANSITIONING FROM DRY TO WET FOOD
You withhold food 2 hours prior to testing because you don't want the BG number to be food influenced
First you would test first thing in the AM ( AM Pre shot) then feed and give insulin
Then I would say get a test @+3 ( 3 hours after giving insulin) the @+5 , then @+7
Then same thing with PMPS ( PM pre shot) test times the same
But each day and night you want to test at different times like filling in pieces of a puzzle
 
About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers

Also make sure you have a hypo kit at home , on your previous post this was addressed
Previous post
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/introduction-and-question.266959/#post-2988385
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
So you plan on feeding dry only?
I don't think they sell any of the kibble list I gave you
If you plan on switching to an all wet low carb diet

TRANSITIONING FROM DRY TO WET FOOD
You withhold food 2 hours prior to testing because you don't want the BG number to be food influenced
First you would test first thing in the AM ( AM Pre shot) then feed and give insulin
Then I would say get a test @+3 ( 3 hours after giving insulin) the @+5 , then @+7
Then same thing with PMPS ( PM pre shot) test times the same
But each day and night you want to test at different times like filling in pieces of a puzzle
Click to expand...

I'll feed him dry if that'll help him feel better :) but I'm wondering, while I transition him from dry to wet, should I mix the two together? Answer's probably in the link that you just shared (thanks!) so I'll give it a read asap
 
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