Mao is gone... he's dead...... I had to put him down.

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Candy&Company

Candy&Company

Member Since 2018
Hi,

So Mao is my 13 year old neutered non-diabetic boy, he's been in good health for forever until he needed a dental - that was done Nov. 29th - they took A LOT of teeth out but left him with his 4 canines, all in front incisors and 6 other teeth - the rest were all pulled, and sutured with dissolving thread.

He took it like a champ - he'd been on 2 rounds of Clavamox (antibiotic) and bupe (pain med) - then after the procedure he got more bupe at a slightly higher dose.

I couldn't make his Dec. 13th checkup due to a work crisis, but I got him in on the 21st with a different vet who didn't even want to examine him, just wanted to give him a booster vaccine shot and send us away but I fought for the exam - he'd been acting odd.

Not eating well/enough, lethargic and meatloafing a bit in between bouts of playfulness, etc.

I was told then, for the first time, that he had a heart murmur which apparently they found during his dental - I asked about blood work since his kidney levels had been on the high end of normal on Nov 11th at the ER vet.. so..

In the end, they agreed to another full blood panel, another specific blood test to check his heart more closely for heart disease/etc, plus they got a urine sample to compare to the kidney-levels in the blood work.

He also got diagnosed with an ear infection in both ears - so I was sent home with antibiotic ear ointment, ear cleaning solution (liquid) and a "by Monday at the latest we'll have the results".

They also trimmed the ends of the sutures in his mouth - despite being dissolving, apparently they take A LOT longer to disintegrate than the human variety - they thought the ends of them might be what had turned him off his food - that night he ate a little. The next day, much more...

But now, he barely touched breakfast and lunch... he's still meatloafing, and he HATES having his ears cleaned and medicated. Like, 200% worse than trying to give oral medicine... that bad. Oral meds, he'd fight a bit and fuss.. but for his ears? He goes BALLISTIC, and I'm on my own.

Even wrapping him like a burrito in a towel doesn't help.

*sigh* Any suggestions? I know in another thread someone mentioned... I think was a "cat sack"...? I'll have to find it... I need SOMETHING.

Plus with his heart murmur, I don't wanna stress him out too much, yanno? I hate waiting for results. :(

Another problem is the SMELL - that cleaning solution they gave me SMELLS to high heaven, like perfume or something, and it bugs the heck out of him. :(

Also he's always been in the 10-11lb range... he was 10lbs on Nov 29th his dental but as of Dec 21st he's 9.25lbs - to low for him, and he's not making it easy for me to build him back up. He's a tougher case for that than even Fena when she was first diagnosed with diabetes. :(

Help?
 
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I don't have any advice but I wonder if his mouth is painful and that's keeping him from acting normal. I've read here several times about kitties who have a tiny tooth fragment left in the jaw after extractions. The fragments can cause inflammation, etc. Were X-rays done after the dental to look for these?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I don't have any advice but I wonder if his mouth is painful and that's keeping him from acting normal. I've read here several times about kitties who have a tiny tooth fragment left in the jaw after extractions. The fragments can cause inflammation, etc. Were X-rays done after the dental to look for these?
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No they didn't, and I didn't think to ask. :( But I have a new set of problems now, so gonna change the thread title here in a moment.

The vet called back finally with his latest blood work results - they did a full panel, plus an extra Pro BMP Feline (further test his heart since via stethoscope they found a heart murmur), they also got a urine sample. I don't have the print out results, just wrote down everything the vet said for now.

Regarding his kidneys -

They did 3 tests, via blood - 2 came back normal but the 3rd one that's still a bit new to vets (according to mine) was the SDMA. Normal range is 0-14 but Mao was 20, which is elevated but not "dire" and COULD mean the very start of kidney disease. The vet DID think it was weird that the SDMA was elevated but not the other two, she's unsure what to make of that.

His urine sample was "more dilute" than the vet wanted to see, which also suggests kidney trouble along with the blood tests.

Her suggestion is just to monitor him for now - keep him eating and drinking as much water as possible, then retest in 3-4 months. Unfortunately I've never been good at sitting on my hands, so to speak - so I asked about a kidney diet and she suggested Hills k/d or Royal Canin RF since they're supposedly already balanced for protein but low phos/magnesium. I'm gonna do some research into both of them here in a minute.

----His WBC (white blood cell) count was elevated again, vet isn't sure if it's still his remaining teeth, or what. He went through 2 full RX's of Clavamox - one before his dental and one immediately after. He does currently have an ear infection (both ears) which I'm treating him for but otherwise the vet is clueless? Didn't seem worried, but I am.

Regarding his heart -

This was the other whammy. The normal range for the Pro BMP test is under 100. Mao is 150. Not "dire" yet but COULD mean the start of heart disease. She suggested taking him to a specialist, which're far away, to get him an ultrasound/ECG/EKG whatever is needed. Their tests will be definitive, about heart disease. If it's more manageable, my local vet can handle it with MAYBE a once a year trip to the specialist but if it's more serious, I'm in trouble due to distance since the specialist will want to keep him as a more active patient.

I was only told to watch and monitor for now - breathing while asleep, watch for lethargy, coughing, hiding.

Beyond suggesting the specialist, my vet's in "monitor and wait" mode - not sure I like that, but it might just be me? I asked what I could start doing NOW to be proactive - and all she suggested was a kidney diet and keep getting water into him, that's it.

It's hard for me to know what to do, because I know both conditions are a death sentence - they can be managed to a point, but it's downhill you know, and the only unknown is how much "time" until it's time to let them go. His estimated age is 13, so I know that's not good either. :/ Then again he IS 13, so it's downhill regardless since he's getting up there in years. *sighs* I'd definitely like to try anything and everything I can, and watch for "quality of life" as the main indicator. Just so hard to think about. :(

I wondered about supplements too...? I'll be looking into better food for his kidneys (levels, etc) - but supplements for that and his heart.. I'm unsure of? This weird infection (WBC count) is just the mysterious icing on the cake.

Any thoughts or opinions, I'd appreciate. :bighug:
 
Just checked out Hills and Royal Canin kidney food - I know they need less protein but still amounts in the 20's are a bit worrying but I'm sure they're normal? Higher fat will help Mao put weight back on which he's lost... the low phos. level is great but the carbs are higher than I wanted. He's not diabetic but still...

I'm gonna try searching for other brands that meet the criteria, which even my vet was unsure about, level wise - how much protein, etc. TONS of Googling in my future. Will be searching this board, too, for sure.
 
Well, I would be one of those "watch and wait" people because of the extra stress all those specialist appointments and/or interventions would cause, let alone the cost, and, in your case, travel distance. Example: Teasel was very ill in May and June of this year, many days in hospital, DKA, HUGE vet bills for me, etc. He had an abdominal ultrasound that showed *some* thickening in the middle portion of his small intestine. He was seen by an internal medicine vet who discussed doing biopsy for definitive diagnosis of IBD. The endoscopic version *might* have yielded enough info but the gold standard is open abdominal surgical biopsy. Nope - not going there. It would have been too hard on him. Vet would have wanted him on other meds like Atopica for IBD and on and on and on ...

What did I do instead? Came home with a pharmacy of meds to help him through his recovery, learned to do subQ fluids here, switched his wet food to one with no carageenan (common IBD flare trigger), began adding a ton more water to each wet food meal and started giving him a digestive enzyme/probiotic supplement. He's doing great right now and that's what I focus on. My sister and I have discussed this very issue over the years. She's had pets for whom she went above and beyond in treating serious ailments and says in retrospect she wouldn't do it again. It gave them extra time but at a significant cost in terms of their quality of life. It was also extremely stressful and expensive for her.

I love my animals enormously and take very good care of them but I always weigh the benefit versus downside of going down the road of extra testing, specialists, and so on. I ask myself the hard question: who is this for - my pet or me?

We're all different, though, in how we approach these issues. I can only describe my personal take on it. You have to think it all through for yourself, ask questions on the forums and come to your own decisions. :):bighug:
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Well, I would be one of those "watch and wait" people because of the extra stress all those specialist appointments and/or interventions would cause, let alone the cost, and, in your case, travel distance. Example: Teasel was very ill in May and June of this year, many days in hospital, DKA, HUGE vet bills for me, etc. He had an abdominal ultrasound that showed *some* thickening in the middle portion of his small intestine. He was seen by an internal medicine vet who discussed doing biopsy for definitive diagnosis of IBD. The endoscopic version *might* have yielded enough info but the gold standard is open abdominal surgical biopsy. Nope - not going there. It would have been too hard on him. Vet would have wanted him on other meds like Atopica for IBD and on and on and on ...

What did I do instead? Came home with a pharmacy of meds to help him through his recovery, learned to do subQ fluids here, switched his wet food to one with no carageenan (common IBD flare trigger), began adding a ton more water to each wet food meal and started giving him a digestive enzyme/probiotic supplement. He's doing great right now and that's what I focus on. My sister and I have discussed this very issue over the years. She's had pets for whom she went above and beyond in treating serious ailments and says in retrospect she wouldn't do it again. It gave them extra time but at a significant cost in terms of their quality of life. It was also extremely stressful and expensive for her.

I love my animals enormously and take very good care of them but I always weigh the benefit versus downside of going down the road of extra testing, specialists, and so on. I ask myself the hard question: who is this for - my pet or me?

We're all different, though, in how we approach these issues. I can only describe my personal take on it. You have to think it all through for yourself, ask questions on the forums and come to your own decisions. :):bighug:
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Yeah very true, it's a tight rope to walk for sure - I guess I'd just feel better, myself, if I knew where his heart stood as of right now. The blood test itself, I'm not sure what it "means", you know? IS it the beginning, or would the in depth tests reveal different? If it is the beginning, then I probably wouldn't bother with the specialist again and just monitor - but if the blood work is wrong and it's WORSE.. then I'd know I'm literally on borrowed time.

Sooo hard to know what to do. Quality of life is above and beyond the most important for me.. but it's hard to get a handle on where the "starting" point is. I already knew something was wrong, which is why I pushed for the extra blood test and extended Pro BMP... *sigh*

I asked the specialist on the phone, closest to me (still over an hour away) about initial costs and she quoted between $570-670 roughly, not including what the initial tests (ultrasound, BP, etc. which're included in that price) show... so depending, I could be looking at $670-1,000 worst case scenario. Not to mention taxi costs ($300 give or take total) which I also called and priced. I do have a pet budget and since they were always so healthy through the years, it's a good chunk of change.. but I still wonder.

Right now he's doing.... okay. He ate great this morning which I was thrilled about, ate all his food but for maybe a tsp. or so and that was including 3tbs water (up now from 2.5) - he's smaller in size than Fena so I don't wanna add TOO much water to his food at first, since I want him to get the food itself too and not the "food water" etc.

He does still play, bright eyed, snuggly/loving/alert.. but he's still meatloafing. Then I thought, huh... maybe it's because it's cold? My furnace is set to 71 degrees, but it's an ooooold house and there're tons of drafts so I wondered....? Gosh I dunno.

He's also down to 9.25lbs - as of Dec 21st checkup/exam. He's always been between 10-11 so that's a worry since his eating still hasn't been the best overall but he's been more active, feeling better for periods I guess, so he's burning off more.

I just feel I'm at a crossroads, with multiple paths so I'm not sure what to do.
 
I've given you my slant. I've seen this type of thing discussed on this main forum before. Someone was trying to decide how to proceed and was confused so they put it out to the members to weigh in on. Many did and the original poster was given a lot of good material to think about. You're in a community of pet people who readily go above and beyond so they all understand your conundrum. You might want to post specifically about this. Put the blue question mark icon on your post title so it gets more attention.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I've given you my slant. I've seen this type of thing discussed on this main forum before. Someone was trying to decide how to proceed and was confused so they put it out to the members to weigh in on. Many did and the original poster was given a lot of good material to think about. You're in a community of pet people who readily go above and beyond so they all understand your conundrum. You might want to post specifically about this. Put the blue question mark icon on your post title so it gets more attention.
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Yeah, I guess I was just hoping to hear from people and try to do what I can, now. Like get him on better kidney-wise food and ask about supplements for both that and his heart - to maybe help him, yanno? I've seen a lot of posts about kidney disease here but too many on heart issues.. not that stands out in my mind anyway. My "gut" is telling me this is the beginning of the end but how long the end takes and what forms... I dunno. So I'd like to do what I can, until it comes time. It could be several years from now, I just dunno. I'd hate to cut him short if his quality of life remains good or I could help it, until it's "time".
 
Candy&Company said:
Yeah, I guess I was just hoping to hear from people and try to do what I can, now. Like get him on better kidney-wise food and ask about supplements for both that and his heart - to maybe help him, yanno? I've seen a lot of posts about kidney disease here but too many on heart issues.. not that stands out in my mind anyway. My "gut" is telling me this is the beginning of the end but how long the end takes and what forms... I dunno. So I'd like to do what I can, until it comes time. It could be several years from now, I just dunno. I'd hate to cut him short if his quality of life remains good or I could help it, until it's "time".
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A good heart to heart with your usual vet - if you have one you like who has good "people skills" - is often a worthwhile conversation. They often will respond to the question: "What would you do if it was your cat?" in a very kind and sensitive way. I know my vet would.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
A good heart to heart with your usual vet - if you have one you like who has good "people skills" - is often a worthwhile conversation. They often will respond to the question: "What would you do if it was your cat?" in a very kind and sensitive way. I know my vet would.
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Yeah I had that earlier with the vet, when she called back - and it was all "monitor, wait, see" - which is sound, I agree... but I like to be proactive, least in the small things I CAN do. She didn't even suggest a better food change until the new blood results/etc. in 3-4 months... but I'd like to "help" if I could. I try hard not to be the "problem" in my thinking and wanting to do.. so I don't think trying to be proactive is "bad".. but is it?

When I brought it all up, all I got was, "You can do that sure" but she didn't seem to really have an opinion beyond "monitor, wait, see". She never said it was "hurt" either, of course.
 
Well, a heart murmur on its own doesn't prove anything. Cats can have a murmur without any underlying heart disease, or heart disease without a murmur. An abnormal proBNP shows that there is "a" problem potentially, but isn't diagnostic for what problem, nor necessarily for the severity. If you can afford it after the dental, the only real diagnostic for the heart is to have an echo (heart ultrasound) done. If there is heart disease, then depending on the type, you may be offered one or more of the possible heart medications to try to keep him out of heart failure for as long as possible. Is the kidney disease confirmed or only suggested at this point? I don't see anything on your labs tab on your ss since August, but everything looked fine in the kidney ranges at that point. If the potential kidney issues are from blood work done very soon after anesthesia, then it may be that the kidneys simply took a "hit" during the anesthesia and may at least partially recover.
 
manxcat419 said:
Well, a heart murmur on its own doesn't prove anything. Cats can have a murmur without any underlying heart disease, or heart disease without a murmur. An abnormal proBNP shows that there is "a" problem potentially, but isn't diagnostic for what problem, nor necessarily for the severity. If you can afford it after the dental, the only real diagnostic for the heart is to have an echo (heart ultrasound) done. If there is heart disease, then depending on the type, you may be offered one or more of the possible heart medications to try to keep him out of heart failure for as long as possible. Is the kidney disease confirmed or only suggested at this point? I don't see anything on your labs tab on your ss since August, but everything looked fine in the kidney ranges at that point. If the potential kidney issues are from blood work done very soon after anesthesia, then it may be that the kidneys simply took a "hit" during the anesthesia and may at least partially recover.
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No the SS and labs are for my sugar cat Fena - this is about Mao, my non-diabetic kitty.

He first had full blood work on Nov 11th which showed elevated kidneys and WBC count - he got Clavamox for his dental issues (thinking that's where the WBC level came from) and finished. He had his dental on Nov 29th - they heard a heart murmur but I wasn't told until his follow up appointment post-dental on Dec 21st. At pickup though after the dental I got another RX for Clavamox which he finished. On the 21st they told me of the detected murmur - they didn't want to do another exam but he wasn't doing well from what I could tell, so I pushed for it. They did another blood panel, the pro BMP and urine sample - he was diagnosed with an ear infection then too.

They haven't been able to "confirm" a thing, really... for the kidneys. 3 tests via blood, 2 were negative but the only positive was the SDMA test which is relatively new and supposed to help detect early kidney trouble. Normal range is 0-14, Mao's was 20.

So for time line, he had bloodwork on Nov 11th. Had his dental (extractions) on Nov 29th. Then had his bloodwork (etc) on Dec 21st.
 
I don't have paper copies of his latest blood work yet, the vet just told me over the phone - so I need to go pick those up. She never mentioned elevated levels of ANYTHING except kidney function, the WBC count and the pro BMP. So I'll need those papers.
 
Candy&Company said:
No the SS and labs are for my sugar cat Fena - this is about Mao, my non-diabetic kitty.
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Sorry - my mistake.

OK. SDMA - is now thought not to be as indicative purely of kidney disease as was initially suggested. https://www.2ndchance.info/SDMA2018.htm If his kidney values are normal on bloodwork and urinalysis, it may actually be picking up the heart issue rather than a kidney issue waiting to happen. If you can post copies of the blood work, that would very definitely help and I'm happy to look at them for you. The WBC count being high is indicative of either infection or inflammation and could still be linked to his dental issues as well as the ear infection, though the Clavamox certainly won't hurt and will take down any lingering infection.

Oh - and I almost forgot. You asked about kitty restraint bags. Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Grooming-Bag-restraint-Downtown/dp/B0098AOY0K/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20 where you can choose which part(s) of his body to keep out of the bag should work well for you.
 
manxcat419 said:
Sorry - my mistake.

OK. SDMA - is now thought not to be as indicative purely of kidney disease as was initially suggested. https://www.2ndchance.info/SDMA2018.htm If his kidney values are normal on bloodwork and urinalysis, it may actually be picking up the heart issue rather than a kidney issue waiting to happen. If you can post copies of the blood work, that would very definitely help and I'm happy to look at them for you. The WBC count being high is indicative of either infection or inflammation and could still be linked to his dental issues as well as the ear infection, though the Clavamox certainly won't hurt and will take down any lingering infection.

Oh - and I almost forgot. You asked about kitty restraint bags. Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Grooming-Bag-restraint-Downtown/dp/B0098AOY0K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1546036870&sr=8-3&keywords=cat restraint bag where you can choose which part(s) of his body to keep out of the bag should work well for you.
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It's okay, thank you for replying!! Yeah my vet said the SDMA is relatively new and she was stumped as to why it popped elevated but the other 2 tests for kidneys were fine/normal. Shje didn't have an answer. She DID say though that his urine sample was more diluted than she'd like.. which she said supported her theory of beginning kidney disease?

On Nov 21st, when he was at the ER clinic, his kidneys levels DID pop as elevated... but they didn't do SDMA at the time. Now, they're fine, but SDMA is elevated.

I'll definitely get the lab paper-print outs in hand ASAP, I always ask for them and will post a new tab on my SS, for Mao and will clearly label it. Fena needs new labs too now that I think of it... oh for joy!

Thank you about the bags, will check that out ASAP - I hate it when he fights, I don't want him uber stressed out and fighting, but I want him to get his cleaning solution (which I WISH didn't smell so godawful of perfume) and especially his antibiotic ear ointment.

At this point, do you think I should pursue a change in diet to kidney-friendly just in case, or..? Or supplements for it, or the heart..?
 
Well, let's wait and see what the labs say. With very early CKD, there's often not all that much that needs to be done/changed/supplemented. And as there's plenty that needs to be done later on, I'm not usually a huge fan of starting medications earlier than they're really needed. Reducing phosphorus for older cats definitely won't hurt though - there have been some studies that showed that high phosphorus diets can actually contribute to the onset of CKD although the diets tested had 9x the required amount of phosphorus so the cause and effect factor has to be interpreted with that in mind. Dilute urine can happen for a number of reasons, but CKD is definitely up there in that list. With very early CKD, it's generally a case of looking at the creatinine and urine specific gravity (the dilution of the urine) together and matching it back to the kidney guidelines. But there is a whole lot that can be done as and when it's needed. Same for the heart - as he clearly isn't in congestive heart failure at the moment, it may very well be that even if he is diagnosed with heart disease, medications can keep him out of CHF for years at this stage. Though keeping stress down as much as possible is definitely a good idea - there has been a suggestion (based on research in big cats) that stress, rather than diet etc, may be one of the biggest contributing factors to CKD. And stress is definitely to be avoided for heart disease cats as far as possible. Having used restraint bags professionally, they definitely do help to keep cats calm as well as keeping them still for procedures they're not convinced about so that will definitely help him. Depending on which ear cleaner you have, you may be able to switch to one with a less offensive (to cats at least) scent - there are a number of cleaning products available, many of which don't even require a prescription.
 
K I can do that, I planned on picking up the lab sheets either tomorrow before they close early or Monday. As for medications no I just wondered about a food change, eve splicing it (some kidney-friendly with his usual wet) etc. or supplements - vitamins, etc.

Yeah I asked about stress, with the vet and she didn't seem to give it much thought - kind of fluffed it off, a bit? I like a peaceful house, and since all of these issues with Mao and before that with Fena, I got Feliway diffusers to help as a bonus, and it seems to, least a bit? But yeah giving his ears attention is a BIG DEAL, much worse than oral meds. He goes ballistic, and I hate that for him as well as me so I hope the sacks can help, I really do.

The vet said to use the cleaner 1x daily, and the antibiotic ointment 2x daily - needless to say, he's NOT happy.

The cleaner is = Vetone Aurocin, salicylic acid 8.15% - which is basically aspirin, right? Just in another form? But it also says on the bottle" w/aloe vera". It just smells SO BAD, stinks to high heaven, it really is like perfume. This is the main one my vet uses/prescribes. BUT, over a decade ago for my dogs when I had them, I used Zymox Otic and it worked AMAZING but now they have a ton of off shoots I've seen so I'm not sure....?

His ear ointment is = Otibiotic Ointment by Henry Schein Animal Health.
 
Mao ate good at breakfast, all but about tsp or so plus 3 tbs water - but he didn't want lunch and just now for early dinner, he barely licked/ate and that was with sprinkle cheese on top while Fena (my sugar cat) has been eating beautifully and is STILL munching. So I worry about him eating, too. They were bugging me for an early dinner, and early lunch - just wish he would've eaten more but I'll keep a watch for when/if he goes back for another munch.
 
Candy&Company said:
The cleaner is = Vetone Aurocin, salicylic acid 8.15% - which is basically aspirin, right? Just in another form? But it also says on the bottle" w/aloe vera". It just smells SO BAD, stinks to high heaven, it really is like perfume. This is the main one my vet uses/prescribes. BUT, over a decade ago for my dogs when I had them, I used Zymox Otic and it worked AMAZING but now they have a ton of off shoots I've seen so I'm not sure....?
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If it's the one with a green label, it has a pretty nasty fake cucumber melon scent that cats really don't seem to like (and a lot of humans aren't fans of it either). You can buy other versions on Amazon or Chewy that don't have added scent. Another option might be Virbac Epi-Otic which has less of a smell to it. But the main point of any of them is to assist in cleaning - the medicated part is the otibiotic, which you may unfortunately not be able to change.
 
manxcat419 said:
If it's the one with a green label, it has a pretty nasty fake cucumber melon scent that cats really don't seem to like (and a lot of humans aren't fans of it either). You can buy other versions on Amazon or Chewy that don't have added scent. Another option might be Virbac Epi-Otic which has less of a smell to it. But the main point of any of them is to assist in cleaning - the medicated part is the otibiotic, which you may unfortunately not be able to change.
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No this one has a pumpkin-ish orange label... gonna be calling my vet about something different because he HATES it - he's sneezing now, etc.
 
That's the basic aloe one as far as I know. But if he doesn't like it, I'd definitely try to switch it for something unscented. It's a basic enough product that you should have a few options that would essentially work the same way - and if it reduces the amount he fights it, then that has to be better for him.
 
My diabetic girl had both kidney disease and heart disease. The heart started with a murmur. I got an echocardiogram done for two reasons. First Neko had acromegaly which can cause heart issues. Second, I had recently lost my non diabetic cat to a thromboembolism or stroke, caused by a bad heart, which he had three days before his scheduled follow up echo. I was lucky that Neko’s first echo just showed her murmur was due to some age related heart changes that are fairly common. And that echo gave us a base line for several years later when her other heart changes happened. In the mean time, I was less stressed about her heart.

I am a strong believer in knowing what the heart looks like. Heart conditions can be well hidden until fairly advanced. Also, some treatments for kidneys (fluids) can be contraindicated in cats with some heart conditions. As I found out. Neko’s vet had me start fluids for her kidneys, which led to us discovering her heart had deteriorated, but not before a CHF incident.

As for SDMA, it’s not entirely right all the time. My civvie had an SDMA of 14 one year, and 4 the year after that.
 
Okay so Mao is STILL losing weight - he was always 10-11 lbs, then dropped to 9.25 and now he's 8.75... he IS eating but NOT as much as he used to and he's meatloafing A LOT. The vet doesn't want much to do with him right now, until 3-4 months for his kidney check, or until I get him to the heart specialist.

I was weary at first but @Wendy&Neko really convinced me with her story but now I'm in trouble. *sigh* He's not eating like he used to. He DOES eat but it's not enough - and I think this is at least half my fault. Once Fena's BG numbers were way down, I switched them to wet canned food free feeding annnnnnnnnd not good.

Mao isn't eating enough on his own unless I bug him, and Fena isn't either. Again they DO eat but if I offer it where ever they are, chase them a bit they eat great!

Free feeding... other than overnight, doesn't work AT ALL. :(

So should I go back to feeding breakfast, lunch and dinner and chasing...?

Free feeding both of them they're are already hitting the water bowl A LOT more than they ever did, since I initially started 3 -4 meals a day so are they saying they want that again?

Fena, still OTJ and testing okay is getting constipation again because of this too despite the wet food.

Kinda confused, very worried.. I'm looking at Dr. Lisa's sheet for low phos. foods but I've heard of a phosphorus binder, do I get that at the vet or online only to help Mao?

I NEED to get Mao eating more, and I NEED to get Fena more fluids and eating more so I'm gonna chase again, you think? I have to, really, right? :(

Otherwise they're playful, zoomies, TOTAL snuggle bugs, etc. But the last 2 days... not so much.
 
All the vet said for food was the Hills k/d I think it was diet or Royal Canine's... but she didn't suggest switching to ANYTHING until the 3-4 month blood work check but they're LOW on protein like 20% or something and I also read going that low so early, is bad.

I'm just so confused... *sighs* My little guy is suffering somehow and i dunno what to do. Not looking for a miracle, I'm smarter than that - but it's the telling..... good life to bad life, and knowing when it's "time" that I dunno about.

He's still super loving, cuddly, loves his toys, had his zoomie moments.. he's just, "down and out" and I dunno?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You can get binders on line or from the vet, but I would work with the vet on dose, no matter where you source it,

A good source for info: https://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus_binders.htm
Click to expand...

Oh thank you Wendy! Yeah my vet didn't even wanna talk about food changes let alone binders - tried to explain if we could get a small jump on his kidney problems maybe he'd feel better for longer, since he's such a lovey/happy boy but she didn't wanna hear it... so I'll try.

Any clue on good, low phos. foods...? I've been trying and struggling to search them out. :(

And I should have his heart checked, yeah? 150 on the pro blood work, 50 points higher than "normal"....? Just to see where he's at?
 
K/d is high carb food. Tanja’s website has a section on food, including some alternatives. For early stage kidney disease, low phosphorus is important and not too low protein, rather you want good quality protein,
 
Yeah that's what I'd read, but having trouble finding the alternatives... think I'm just too keyed up to see it, probably because I read NO FISH and that's about all I can get him to eat a lot of. Only 2x a week but that's saying something. :(
 
I have a lot of chicken and turkey breast and thighs in the freezer... would that help him, you think? Besides just a "food topper"...? Like he's down to maybe 1/2 a total daily food ration on wet food... but could I try supplementing?
 
I don't have a whole lot to add here, but I wanted to give you some moral support.

I have one diabetic cat, and had another with cardiomyopathy who passed on Dec. 31 at age 14. I see myself in your posts. That doesn't mean the fate of my cat is the fate of your cat AT ALL, or will be any time soon. What I mean is that toward the end of last year, I was at my emotional and financial wit's end trying to keep up with everything. I feel for you. You're doing everything you can do. You're getting Mao the best care possible. All we can do is aim to give them good long lives. That's what you're doing. You're going above and beyond as a cat mama.

I agree with Wendy on knowing what the heart looks like. My cat who just passed (Nancy) was doing fine until the last days when the vet did an X-ray and we saw from the size of her heart that she'd deteriorated. Nothing beats getting a good look at the heart.

Whatever this is, you can deal with it, one step at a time. Sometimes the flurry of wondering and not knowing is the worst part. Soon you'll have more answers and whatever comes next, you'll handle it for both of you. I've spent a lot of time these last three weeks asking "What if it was your cat?" Most people in the veterinary profession are there because they love animals as much as we do.

Good luck with this and keep us posted. You're stronger than you think.
 
Thank you to everyone who replied...

Mao's gone... as of 2pm on Friday, February 1st...

He was breathing heavy, restless and couldn't get comfortable... but he was still eating (not as good) and drinking, litter box was okay but he was lethargic, kept meatloafing and the glands in his neck were huge....so I took him in hoping it was just an infection but I knew better I think.

They took an xray and the vet came in and said, "it's not good"... and I knew, I knew...

She asked if I wanted to see the xray and I said yes.... his lungs were all white, filled with fluid except this thin little gray strip... and he had a golf ball sized mass inside his abdomen just under his diaphram.... she diagnosed cancer... so I chose to put him down.

They shaved his front legs to put in catheters to give the drugs... they had him on oxygen before, he was so bad.... but when they brought him back he was literally panting and so stressed out, he just kind of collapsed on this little rainbow star blanket they put on the table but he was so out of it...

His back was to me, when they sedated him and I set his little head down.... then the pink shot.... after a but the vet checked with the stethoscope she said yes, he was gone... so I spent time with him just alone in the room. I soaked him, I cried so damn much over him...

I go back this Friday to pick up his ashes... I hate this month, I hate it. This month a year ago my Momma died, 5 of my now 7 animals died in February... it's my birthday month too... and Mao was Feb. 1st.... I hate this month.

He was my cookies and dirt boy as I called him, he was so playful and open, and loud... I miss him so much....

RIP Mao, estimated 2005 - Feb 1st, 2019 - 13 years old.

HYnHJsD.jpg
Mao, 3 weeks before.
 
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What a beautiful boy, I am so sorry. I just read back through this whole thread, and can feel your love for him. You are very strong, and the fact that you were willing to make the decision and relieve him from his suffering proves how much you loved him. Fena is griving now too, so try to help each other through it. My thoughts are with you. :bighug:
 
I am so sorry for ur losscat_wings>o you did everything u could and at the end u gave him the ultimate gift of love....peace:bighug:
 
I am so sorry and so angry that a vaccine was given! After all the body went thru to throw a vaccine on top is not right and worse I won't say.
My heart is with you--you did everything the best you could...be gently with yourself. I cannot even convey my condolences --I am truly sorry.
:bighug:
 
Thank you all so much. He was just the sweetest thing and can I ask a weird question, is it just me or is... kinda normal to "hear" your baby? Like sometimes I swear I hear him running up or down the stairs, or "nrrf"-ing - this noise he always made... I like to think its him but sometimes I wonder if it's just me or house noises that I "want" to sound like him?

Fena is still sticking to me like glue, I had to hold her and hold her bowl to get her to eat at first but now she'll only eat out of Mao's bowls (they're different colors) and she's eating better finally but if I'm out of sight she cries. I'm out of Feliway, the diffuser refill... should I get another one? Her numbers are still in the green and blue, I need to update her chart again. But still so far, no insulin needed.

To what Jayla said, yes before they would treat him (my regular vet) they gave him the rabi's shot which I understand for legal reasons.. but before his dental they said he'd need the FVRCP #1 vaccine.. then he got that booster on Dec 21st.

I won't lie, I'd had crappy lucky with animals getting vaccines and boosters and then dying or needing to be put down soon after. I support vaccines, I do but the timing sometimes... it makes me wonder? But they wouldn't do his dental with out the FVRCP, and he needed his dental...

Again thank you all so much. I appreciate all of your responses, it means a lot. xxx I did the best I could. *sighs* Just hate it, it sucks.
 
Sorry about your loss

When the little kids scream outside sometimes it triggers me thinking it's my cat since I'm dealing with CHF, so no it's not you. I've run down the stairs a couple times just to see him in a deep sleep.

As for the Vaccines I've seen one dog have a CRAZY reaction and been lucky with everything else.
I've gotten Vaccines many times just so I could board my animal for a day or so the vets will touch them so I have been there.

It's hard to find a good vet I went through 5 and none of them questioned some of my cats stuff till he was in the emergency phase they all told me "That's high but cats are good at dealing with that"
 
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