Low BG of 44, rubbed corn syrup on gums, disoriented & abnormal head movement

[alleycat]

Chester's BG was 44 tonight. He has been running about 100 to 350 bg and I haven't changed anything but I let him outside to walk and enjoy the day. I raised it to 100 by corn syrup a few hours ago. Then, I gave more corn syrup and it was 187. I am passed the peak point since I gave the last injection. He is still weak with abnormal head movement (back and forth) like he's watching something that's not there. Maybe he's having visual blurring. He's going to the water bowl and sits there moving his head back and forth and wants a drink but doesn't drink. I got him to eat a few bites of dry cat food. Why hasn't he become himself again even though his BG has been raised over the past several hours? Do I need to stay awake all night to keep a check? I'll do another check while I'm waiting to see if anyone is online. How long does if take after a drop so low till he starts acting normal again or do you think something else is wrong? Thanks in advance, Allison

 

[manxcat419]

If you can test again, that would be good. Syrup is good at bringing numbers up, but it's not all that great at keeping them there, so cats can drop back down once the syrup wears off.

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

Drop a cotton ball from overhead and to one side to check awareness and peripheral vision.

 

[alleycat]

If you can test again, that would be good. Syrup is good at bringing numbers up, but it's not all that great at keeping them there, so cats can drop back down once the syrup wears off.

It's 210 but he's still acting drunk. Goes to the water bowl but just puts his nose right at the water but doesn't drink. This has been going on since about 9 pm, about 4.5 hours. Would 44 be so low to cause him to be this way? Glad you are awake. Thanks so much for your info.

 

[Gill & George]

Hi there any chance you could put today's numbers in SS??
(If you can put the last few days even better)

. I am passed the peak point since I gave the last injection.

If he's not had dka in the past it's ok to skip

Had he been acting normal earlier on in the day?

 

[alleycat]

Drop a cotton ball from overhead and to one side to check awareness and peripheral vision.

He doesn't really look up enough right now. But he does see my hand coming toward his face though.

Drop a cotton ball from overhead and to one side to check awareness and peripheral vision.

He's not looking up enough to do that test. He just now ate a very small bite of wet food I had put out earlier. Still no water though.

 

[manxcat419]

I'm going to be about for a while yet tonight. Do you have ketone test strips? Just to rule out as many things as possible. He may also be nauseous from the syrup - that can happen sometimes with cats. Hanging over the water bowl can be a symptom. If you have Pepcid AC in the house you could try giving him 1/4 of a 10 mg pill to see if that might settle his tummy a bit.

 

[Gill & George]

Would 44 be so low to cause him to be this way?

I'm wondering whether he went lower earlier.

That's why I asked about updating at least today's results.

 

[alleycat]

Hi there any chance you could put today's numbers in SS??
(If you can put the last few days even better)


If he's not had dka in the past it's ok to skip

Had he been acting normal earlier on in the day?

Yes he was acting normal earlier and this morning his bg was high at 440 so I gave him his regular dose. I wonder if something else is going on. He just stepped in his water and walked on without drinking. I'm beginning to think it's not his sugar. I saw a slight improvement in his alertness though, but only slight.

 

[alleycat]

I'm going to be about for a while yet tonight. Do you have ketone test strips? Just to rule out as many things as possible. He may also be nauseous from the syrup - that can happen sometimes with cats. Hanging over the water bowl can be a symptom. If you have Pepcid AC in the house you could try giving him 1/4 of a 10 mg pill to see if that might settle his tummy a bit.

Aww I may have given him too much syrup. Poor baby. He's such a good kitty. My husband held the food till he ate a little. I don't have any pepcid. I'll look through the cabinet. I do have ketone test strips.

 

[Gill & George]

Yes he was acting normal earlier and this morning his bg was high at 440 so I gave him his regular dose

Did you get any midcycle tests today?

How much is his regular dose?

Although he was high this morning they can still drop pretty fast, it doesn't exclude that he could have gone lower.

 

[alleycat]

Yes he was acting normal earlier and this morning his bg was high at 440 so I gave him his regular dose. I wonder if something else is going on. He just stepped in his water and walked on without drinking. I'm beginning to think it's not his sugar. I saw a slight improvement in his alertness though, but only slight.

I am using the verioiq right now and it has some history in it.

 

[manxcat419]

OK, well if you can test for ketones that would be good. If he's nauseous, you may just have to wait for it to pass if you don't have anything that will help him - another option that you could try would be Zantac (1/8 of a 75 mg pill). If you don't have that either, then there's not really much else that's fairly fast acting and safe for cats.

 

[alleycat]

No just the

Did you get any midcycle tests today?

How much is his regular dose?

Although he was high this morning they can still drop pretty fast, it doesn't exclude that he could have gone lower.

afternoon then night. Usually around 11

 

[alleycat]

I'm wondering whether he went lower earlier.

That's why I asked about updating at least today's results.

Maybe he did go lower really fast while I was gone and that's what's causing this. He is just wanting a quite place in the corner in the dark right now. Can I update his results on my spread sheet on my cell phone?

 

[alleycat]

No just the

afternoon then night. Usually around 11

I'm sorry I meant to tell you that his regular dose is 5 when he's running over 200 bg.

 

[alleycat]

He is berry

OK, well if you can test for ketones that would be good. If he's nauseous, you may just have to wait for it to pass if you don't have anything that will help him - another option that you could try would be Zantac (1/8 of a 75 mg pill). If you don't have that either, then there's not really much else that's fairly fast acting and safe for cats.

I don't have zantac either. He is very confused. I was able to get to his spread sheet from my phone.

 

[alleycat]

He is berry

I don't have zantac either. He is very confused. I was able to get to his spread sheet from my phone.

It's good to know I can get to his spread sheet from my cell phone. I need to update his profile also. He has run at 55 before and was just fine.

 

[manxcat419]

I am a little concerned about him being confused now his number has been fine for a few hours. Does he react normally to being touched or spoken to?

 

[Gill & George]

I'm sorry I meant to tell you that his regular dose is 5 when he's running over 200 bg.

Have you had him consistently on 5u since feb 2017?(that's the last data on ss)

How have you been making dosing decisions? Vet?

I'm sorry I meant to tell you that his regular dose is 5 when he's running over 200 bg.

Are you basing dosing on PS values??

He has run at 55 before and was just fine.

When was that, was that with the 5u? When in the cycle did you record that 55?



I'm trying to figure out if there is a possibility that Chesters dose is too high, I too am concerned that he is behaving this way after his BG is up. It really will help if you can put some recent info on that ss for us, you should be able to do that from your phone. Perhaps the last week.

I'm sorry I disappeared for a bit there, had to shower and feed the gang.

 

[alleycat]

Have you had him consistently on 5u since feb 2017?(that's the last data on ss)

How have you been making dosing decisions? Vet?

Are you basing dosing on PS values??


When was that, was that with the 5u? When in the cycle did you record that 55?



I'm trying to figure out if there is a possibility that Chesters dose is too high, I too am concerned that he is behaving this way after his BG is up. It really will help if you can put some recent info on that ss for us, you should be able to do that from your phone. Perhaps the last week.

I'm sorry I disappeared for a bit there, had to shower and feed the gang.

I'll have to look back but the 55 was within this month. There were several times that I skipped when he was around 115 or so. I don't take him to the vet, I do all this through this feline board. I just don't have the money for the vet.

 

[alleycat]

I'll try to post some on the ss soon. It's after 3 am here so I'm heading to bed. I got Chester in the bathroom with God and water so I can get up and find him easy to check on him. My husband just looked at him and could tell he was more alert. I'll update tomorrow on his status and readings. Thanks so much for your help! Allison

 

[Gill & George]

I'm glad he is more alert, good idea to keep him somewhere you can find him. Hope he is brighter in the morning

'll try to post some on the ss soon

Do try to do that, I think that you need to re evaluate the dose. We can help you with that, but we need to see some numbers.

I don't take him to the vet, I do all this through this feline board. I just don't have the money for the vet.

I used this board to for Georges insulin dosing too. You haven't posted a thread since feb 2017, is someone helping you via pm?

I see he used to be on Prozinc, Lantus is dosed quite differently.
Please do update us, and we would love to help you.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

There is a possibility that Chester had a stroke or seizure. I know you say you don't have the money for a vet, but if he's still acting this way in the morning, I would try to get him in to see one. Can you apply for Care Credit to help? Failing that, you might ask DCIN for help.

I hope he will be back to normal in the morning. If he is, please update us and maybe ask for guidance on whether or not to give his insulin.

 

[alleycat]

I'm glad he is more alert, good idea to keep him somewhere you can find him. Hope he is brighter in the morning


Do try to do that, I think that you need to re evaluate the dose. We can help you with that, but we need to see some numbers.


I used this board to for Georges insulin dosing too. You haven't posted a thread since feb 2017, is someone helping you via pm?

I see he used to be on Prozinc, Lantus is dosed quite differently.
Please do update us, and we would love to help you.

He is better but his bg is 441. I'm not sure whether or not to give the injection. He ate REAL good! He is alert and walking straight. Wow, what a nightmare.

 

[alleycat]

There is a possibility that Chester had a stroke or seizure. I know you say you don't have the money for a vet, but if he's still acting this way in the morning, I would try to get him in to see one. Can you apply for Care Credit to help? Failing that, you might ask DCIN for help.

I hope he will be back to normal in the morning. If he is, please update us and maybe ask for guidance on whether or not to give his insulin.

He is still on the Lantus. It may have been about a year ago when I switched from Prozinc to Lantus.

 

[alleycat]

I am a little concerned about him being confused now his number has been fine for a few hours. Does he react normally to being touched or spoken to?

Hey I didn't see this last night. He was acting normal to touch but not too being spoke to, it was like he wasn't hearing me. But he was still enjoying being petted. That was a very strange and scary situation. He's about 14 years old now. Yes, he's better, his head is stable (it isn't moving back n forth). He's walking normal. I started suspecting a toxin since he was outside pat of the day. I found some endosorb in my animal supply that helps absorb toxic build up and gave him a little with a mouth syrunge around 4am. But I'm still afraid to give him his insulin because I'll be leaving for work soon and I will not be able to check him again until around 11pm tonight.

 

[manxcat419]

I would give some insulin, but not his full dose - you are seeing some evidence that his regular dose may be a little high for him at the moment with that 55 and then yesterday's 44. Usually, with a longer-term diabetic we would say they need to go under 50 3 times to earn a reduction on Lantus, but given his reaction to it we can't be sure that he didn't go lower than that 44 and it's possible that the dose has been too high for some time now. His early Lantus dosing looks as though you may have been trying to partially use a sliding scale and the doses were taken up overall fairly quickly during your first couple of weeks. There is a possibility that you may have skipped over a dose that would have worked better for him at the time during those first 2 weeks. I would maybe try a half dose to see how he does with it and take things from there.

 

[Gill & George]

But I'm still afraid to give him his insulin because I'll be leaving for work soon and I will not be able to check him again until around 11pm tonight.

Understandably

you are seeing some evidence that his regular dose may be a little high for him at the moment with that 55 and then yesterday's 44. Usually, with a longer-term diabetic we would say they need to go under 50 3 times to earn a reduction on Lantus, but given his reaction to it we can't be sure that he didn't go lower than that 44 and it's possible that the dose has been too high for some time now. His early Lantus dosing looks as though you may have been trying to partially use a sliding scale and the doses were taken up overall fairly quickly during your first couple of weeks. There is a possibility that you may have skipped over a dose that would have worked better for him at the time during those first 2 weeks. I would maybe try a half dose to see how he does with it and take things from there.

I agree, though equally I worry whether that is too much to reduce by.
He was up to 3.5 u of Prozinc, though with the data we can't see if he dropped low, lowest we saw on prozinc was 139, usually when swapping that dose should have been taken into account, so should have started on 3u, since Chester had already been on insulin the starting dose of 0.25u of Lantus was too low. Perhaps that's the reason it went up quick.

That all said, that was a loooong time ago, 7 months is a long time in FD and what we do know is that our kitties insulin needs change as time passes. So, I'm going to nag again, we need to see some data for the last couple of weeks so we can give you some well informed advice, otherwise we are really just playing dose lottery with Chester, dropping him down too far has it's own set of very serious complications (DKA), and continuing on too high of a dose could prove tragic.

I'm going to be very direct here, have you been testing every day??? Have you actually got any data for the last couple of weeks??? I'm not asking it to be judgy, it's OK if you haven't, I don't need explanations, but if you haven't got any data, we can work with you to help you gather the data you need to try and move forward.
But if you have got data, give us what you have and we can work from there.

In order for us to be able to answer you questions and help you best we could really do with you updating the last couple of weeks on the ss. I used to do it on my cell phone all the time.

Lastly, thanks for posting, I've been thinking about him all day and hoping to hear that he was feeling better.