LOUIE IN TEXAS

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ohbell

ohbell

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Hello everyone.... I visited Louie last nite...took him the PZI BCP that was Beans to use until mommy gets his scription herself...She tested +1 last nite and his number was 377. She was not able to test anymore for the evening....
He is due for his amps in 1 hour....
Mommabean tested 1 hour ago and his # is 310. She has taken up the food and will test again in an hour....before shot

QUESTION IS: Her vet told her to shoot 2 units....I suggested 1 unit and to curve him about every 2-3 hours..... wanting advice here......My Bean was not on insulin for that long (see ss).... And I know every cat is different, but after reviewing my chart, 2 units seems tooooo much. Wanted to know others opinions as maybe 1 unit is perhaps too much as well.

He is eating low carb food. ff

THANKS FOR THE HELP!!
 
Can she come on and ask for advice? It is hard to give advice unsolicited. It would also be good if she could post on the PZI forum.

She was on N before, right. But there don't seem to be any numbers for her time on N. I don't see a spreadsheet? The general advice is to start with one unit and see how the insulin works before you raise the dose.
 
that is what I thought, as that is what I started with as well....I dont think she has started a spreadsheet yet. I will text and see if she can go on for advice, but she did have me do this this am...so not for sure.... JUST texted, will find out
 
saying no puter at home, and is ok to go thru me..... we still have 30 min. to decide what to do! nailbite_smile
 
The standard starting dose for both PZI and Lantus is usually 1u. I hope others will chime in because I don't have experience with PZI but I would say 1u. Better to safe than sorry. There's no history of ketones, correct?
 
Then I would say one unit (tell her the "you can raise the dose but can't get the insulin out.....line) and check for ketones regularly.

She can always tell the vet she was scared to give two units and she will raise if needed after she gets some numbers.
 
no, no ketones! and blood work not that old, but I know it can happen quickly... I believe her friend is bringing her some soon.. and I advised her that board is saying 1 unit as well....just thought that 1 unit might be too much...wanted imput...tytyytytty
 
update:
Ketones were tested on the 13th - 3 readings with nph: 358, 396, 274 - do not know what order she tested: amps/curve/pmps
 
1 unit.......better a little high when starting a different insulin till she knows how well it is going to work. Much longer duration than N insulin.
 
ty just got off phone and she says not eating....told her to hold off on shot, little boy has to eat..... took her some chicken treats, lamb treats and duck treats last nite ground up to use as 'topper' for food...she is trying right now to see if he will eat something!
 
She did syringe feed some ff: 20cc w/ water around 10:45am
He also ate about 5-6 bites of Iams - beef with gravey.....a bit before shot of 1 unit
trying to find out how many carbs??? could not find on the list?? anyone know so that I may tell mommabean?

his amps was 351
1 unit PZI BCP
+2 is 406
he as been nibbling a bit on ff - grill, ff - sol/cod/shrimp & iams beef/gravey

She will test again +4


tytyt in advance
 
another update
+4 - 393

trying to find out if she is giving iams still or not? - he ate but was ff - sole/cod/shrimp - so is low carb
 
Mr. Louie ate - really good and his number is 336 - right after eating (w/in min.). He ate 1/2 can of cod f.f.
She shot 1 unit, 2 hours earlier than his scheduled time. So, she will test +4 and see.


+4 - 411...... she said he is not getting any carb food. grr_red


Wanting advice to go to 1.25 units?????? Trying to keep her from going to 2 units on her vets advice!!!!!!

I am going to try to get her here today and use the puter..... just dont know when
 
Can she go ahead and get some numbers today? That would help us figure out what is happening. Does he go up and then back down or does he just go up?

No infections? Is she sure testing for ketones?
 
GOING TO SET UP SSHEET: BUT, HERE IT IS
3 readings while on N: dont know what order: amps/pmps/curve??
358
398
274

Took her PZI BCP:
No testing: SHOT 2 UNITS
TESTED +2: 377
(No more testing)
+10: 310
amps: 351 - 1 unit
+2: 406
+4: 393
Shot 2 hours early: 1 unit
tested right after: 336
+4: 411
amps: 403

I hope someone -eeeeks - can make heads or tail out of this..... bottom line, he is 403 and just seen the vet last thursday. She is wanting to up it to 2 units on the advice of the vet.... fully understandable....she cannot visit here that much and only heres my voice....wish she was able to see the board on a daily basis!

the just went to the vet last thurs. no ketones, no infections etc.
 
The interesting part is that he moved down 8 points between +4 and pmps. It may be that he is a kitty that shoots up early and then surfs or goes down. If he goes down, we would want to know that when considering a higher dose.

If the only discussion is between 1.25 and 2, I would vote for 1.25 and a curve to see what is really happening. She needs to test for ketones daily on her own.
 
goood gosh.....he ate 1/2 can and threw up two times!!!!!! gggggrrrrrr!
she is holding off for a bit, gonna try the food again and definately hold off on the shot!
 
i just texted and she told me her friend is bringing some ketone strips, however I just told her she must take mine today if her friend doesnt bring them....
 
she did and he ate about 1/4 can ff. told her to wait a bit and try again, he kept this down. She wants to go ahead and shoot - I ask her to see if he would eat a bit more and hold for 10 min to make sure he is keeping it down....
 
Is this shot at the regular pmps time? Or is she wanting to shoot early? I am confused. It sounds like she shot early this morning?

I certainly couldn't advise to shoot several cycles early. Even TID is every 8 hours and is only used when you have data to figure out what is going on. It sounds like she is upset over the high numbers but she just started yesterday and we are still not sure of any number yesterday after +4 until pmps. Is that right?

If I have this correct, I would suggest she sit on the morning dose, get some numbers so she can see what he does after +4, get a ketones test and give the insulin a chance to work.

At his regular pmps, if he is high and clearly rising, then she could try 1.25
 
ok, update -
she should have shot at 1030 am to keep the regular 12/12 schedule....but, last nite she shot 8:30 (2 hrs early). This am test - 9am, when tested and then fed (9:20 am) then he threw up 2 times.
now, at 11am, he has eaten two times and kept it down. She called her vet and vet told her to shot 1unit. She has done that....... She will come get my newbie kit and test strips as she is out of hers and cannot purchase any til thursday.
So, I guess the pmps will now be 11pm tonite!
tytytytyt for your help........greatly appreciate it and I know she does too!
 
Ok...this is Sara...momma of Louie in TX. I'm at Shellie's house at the moment.

She has thankfully been posting for me as I do not have a comp at home. Usually I am at work more and can use the comp there, but I've been home keeping an eye on Louie :roll:

His bg numbers have not even once gotten down to a good number. Yesterday b4 food and shot, he was 310, which is the lowest I have seen it. Tonight if he eats well, I am planning to increase his pzi because the numbers even at peak(+4-+6) are higher than they are before I inject...so I'd like to prob go up to 1.25u or 1.5u. depending on how high his #'s are...Like...if he's at 400 I'll give him 1.5. If mid 300's to 400, then 1.25. What do you all think of that? I will test him at +6 if I increase the dose...
 
Hi Sara,
I've seen the same sort of thing happen with a couple other sugarcats who were switched from N to a better insulin. Because they act so differently, I'm thinking it takes a few days for kitty to adjust from the "N" cycle to a 12 hour one.

Having higher numbers after the shot can mean a few different things.
1 - what I said above, maybe it takes a few days to adjust to a different and longer lasting insulin.
2 - the dose is too high, and kitty is experiencing liver panic when his BG drops lower than his body is prepared to deal with
or 3 - the dose may be too low.

I feel that you are siding with option 3?
The only issue is that if it does take several cycles to adjust to a dose, unfortunately the only way to let that happen is to let it happen. If you try to adjust doses to the pre-shots this "early in the game", you might miss the "right dose". Also, if it is liver panic or "bounces" that are causing the high numbers, you'd be doing what we call "shooting the bounce", and dosing too high. Once the liver calms down, the increase could have a greater (possibly too great) effect.

I think you, at least short term, need to pick a dose and stick with it for several days, and collect lots of data so you can see definite patterns that will making dosing decisions easier in the future.

Hopefully others will chime in soon....
 
she has left to go home already :sad:
I will call her and read to her right now.
tytyt for your help
 
ok, she just tested at +5 and his is 314!!! so, maybe you are right about waiting a couple of days before ajusting again. So Sara is going to keep it at 1 unit for tonite.
Ok, should she test again beween now at +5 and is pmps?? and if so, when....like +8???
 
thank you for all you've done and continue to do for her and Louie! It is difficult to try to deal with FD (especially new cases) in the first place, but to do so by way of phone calls is above and beyond that. Will keep checking in....

Carl

p.s. just saw the latest post. Yes, any check helps make sense of the numbers. a +8 or +9 would be great.
 
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