LOTUS PMPS +7 58 +7.5 56 +8.54 +8.75 77 +9.25 117

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Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Hi Cathy,
I am so glad that Lotus' U/S revealed nothing scary. She is a lucky kitty to have found a caring person like you. I wholeheartedly agree with everyone's comments about Lantus dose. The Lantus protocol used here on the FDMB has been tested and it works. It is a very safe protocol, because everything is done cautiously, and in well defined stages. We do not experiment. I can add a personal story here: My previous diabetic cat, Stu, was almost done in by his vet. His dose was raised higher and higher in large increments over a short span of time. If I had not found this board, I would have lost him. Many of us here rely on the enormous store of knowledge on this board when it comes to dealing with feline diabetes. We go to our vets for everything else.

Hang in there and be confident that you have a lot of people here to help you out.

Ella & Rusty

p.s. When the spreadsheet gets "stuck" on Saving. Usually it fixes itself if you wait a few minutes. It will say "we're back" or something similar.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Any time in there is good. You want it to be fairly close to shot time so it doesn't change too much before the shot but with enough time to get input from the board if it's low. I think Lotus will be higher than the 199 from earlier today but you never know. That's why we test. :roll: :lol:
Liz

ETA: I think you entered the World values on the US tab on the spreadsheet. People will freak out at a 3 or 11 value. :lol:
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Cathy, I will try to go in and fix the spreadsheet. I think what is happening is that you are entering your metric numbers on the US version. Then the spreadsheet can't convert. When you go to your copy of the spreadsheet, check to be sure you are entering your metric numbers on the World spreadsheet. (check on the tab at the bottom)
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Cathy,

I'm a newbie here, too and I feel your pain/confusion, etc. But I have to say, you are in the greatest of hands here on FDMB! The people that have already been posting on your board are so well versed with this disease and drug. Personally, I trust them more than my own vet. They have been here, done this, day in and day out. I wish you and Lotus the best! Many blessings!!!

Deborah & Shasta
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/+199

Cathy S said:
I am trying to change the spread sheet but it is stuck on 'saving' again. So instead of 7.30 I should blood test at 7.00pm?
Click to expand...

If you are going to shoot at 8, can you test at 7 please? If you are going to shoot at 8:30, a test at 7:30 is fine.

If you need help with the SS, please PM me :-D

tt8875639fltt.gif
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

I agree with Marje. Both of us noted earlier that many vets treat all insulin the same. Insulin like Humulin N, Caninsulin/Vetsulin, and PZI were around before Lantus and Levemir. Lantus and Lev are very different pharmacologically than other insulin. One of the major differences is that they are depot-type of medications. It's because of the depot that you don't want to inject different doses at each shot time. Think of it this way. You have a pond of water. You want to keep waves from forming in the pond. You get up in the morning and the water is still. Then, in the evening, you keep throwing stones into the pond, It keeps rippling. There are little waves that keep disturbing the water. So, by the time you get to the morning, it's taking a while for the water to become still. Then you start the process all over again. In terms of Lantus, if you shoot different amounts in the AM and PM, you get wonky numbers because the depot never has a chance to truly stabilize.

When we see that someone is getting numbers that are too low to shoot when they first start Lantus, we suggest lowering the dose. By lowering the dose, it allows you to shoot the same dose in the AM and PM and not skip shots. This will allow the depot to stabilize.

Lotus has been through several changes. Getting your cat on a low carb diet can have a BIG effect on numbers. Like I noted earlier, if there was an infection, the antibiotics seem like they're doing their job and as the infection clears, numbers will also drop. Any or all of these may be factoring in to your needing to drop Lotus' dose.

Also -- Please stop entering the mmol/L data on the US (mg/dL) tab of your spreadsheet. The numbers will not convert. You need to enter the metric data on the World tab. Most of us are from the US and we use the US format. If those of us who hang out to help need to help you and others, it takes way too long to do the conversions by hand.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

I swear I can see Sue and others smacking their foreheads and saying how long is going to take this woman to figure out the
way to calculate metric and usa dosage not to mention how to do the spread sheet!! really I am considered to be reasonable
intelligent:) I think I have the hang of it now and yes you were right I was putting in US figures instead of metric. I will wait until
7.00 to test blood then at 8.00 I can give her the dose. I can feed her then right? She is very upset everyone else has been fed and not her. She will also get her last painkiller and tomorrow her last antibiotic. Could these be effecting the insulin...just a thought.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Test at 7 and post your number. We'll give you some advice. And then at 8, if all is ok to shoot, then test, feed, shoot.

Don't feed for the two hours before you shoot ok?
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

No problem. You just need to pay attention to which tab you're entering the metric data on.

Had you thought about moving your shot time so everyone is eating at the same time? It might make your life a bit easier.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Cathy, there is a crazy amount of info to absorb for all of this and it is super stressful to see Lotus be so sick. We totally understand so don't be hard on yourself. If we harp on something, it's because it's important.

Don't feed Lotus until you post the number and get feedback here.
Liz
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/+19.5 19.9/ 19.9

Her reading is 11.1 which I gather is 199 which i think means no insulin as it is too low?

oh god I gave her some food she only had about 4 mouthfuls though before I saw your email and snatched it away from her
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/+19.5 19.9/+23 1

7.00 p.m. is still 11.1 or just 199 she got a few mouths from her dish before I snatched it away and then she pushed another cat out of the way and started to eat his so i am chasing her away from other dishes. time to look us in the bedroom.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/+19.5 19.9/+23 1

7.00 p.m. is still 11.1 or just 199 she got a few mouthfuls from her dish before I snatched it away and then she pushed another cat out of the way and started to eat his so i am chasing her away from other dishes. time to lock us in the bedroom.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

No worries about the food. Can you update the subject line of the first post with
8/16 Lotus +23 199 dose question

That will get Marje or Sienne to take a look. Great job!
Liz
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

That's okay, Cathy!

This is where somebody is supposed to tell you to take a few deep breaths. ;-)
We can still work with these numbers.

Carl
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

It's fine to shoot. We generally suggest that someone who's new to Lantus not shoot below 150 (or 8.3 mmol/L). Your vet was giving you a wider margin but 199 vs. 200 is splitting hairs. You're good to feed and shoot.

Remember to lower the dose to 0.5u. That will be your new dose for the next several days.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +23 199 Shoot or not? 7.00 PM BG

any advice from the experts out there. she has eaten a bit of food see previous posts and other wise is fine. Very anxious for her food but grooming herself etc. She has not had any insulin since 8.00 p.m. last night when she got one unit.
 
08/16 7.00 p.m. BG still 199 dose question

Thanks so much. She will be delighted to eat. One more question. Based on my four days experience on this website how much
alcohol do you ladies consume on an average day? I had a glass on wine on my birthday in April but right now I feel like a wrung out
rag and the idea of buying a bottle of wine with a large straw is very appealing. My head feels like it is literally going to explode it is
so stuffed. :) Bless you all and I will post the 8.00 p.m. bg
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Yes...shoot. Sorry...Gracie's shot time is at 7 and I didn't realize you'd be so punctual :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: on the alcohol consumption. It has definitely increased for me as long as she is up because I don't want to be fighting low numbers with a buzz :lol: :lol: :lol: . I always be sure and keep chocolate in the hypo toolkit. Highly recommend it!!!

I'd be sure and get a +1 and +2 test ok? Just post. We'll look for it....I'm going out to dinner but I'll see if Sienne can check in.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

If it wasn't for needing to be alert and sharp for our kitties, we would all be heavy drinkers. :roll: :lol: :lol: chocolate and caffeine tend to be the drugs of choice. :lol:
Liz
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Your head may be ready to explode but you certainly haven't lost your sense of humor!!

I don't think my alcohol consumption has increased but I think my ice cream consumption has. The front end of this learning curve is huge. We've all been there. It all gets much easier. Really!
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

This is for now:



This is for later:


Carl
 
8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268

I gave her 1/2 unit and she and the rest of the crowd are stuffing their faces. I will post 9.00 and 10.00 and then I am going
to bed! Once again to all many thanks for support, advice, encouragement,patience and good humour!
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Cathy --

If you want to make the subject line visible on the Board, you need to change/edit the subject line in your first post in this thread. You want to update your subject line so it reads PMPS/268.
 
Re: 8/16 Lotus +12 54/ +12 15 49/ +13.45 63/

Nom, nom, nom! That has become my favorite sound. :lol: :lol: could you change the subject line of the first post to this
8/16 Lotus PMPS 268

PMBG means that you didn't give a shot. And you have to change the first post (the original one) for it to show up on the forum. Then when you get more readings, add those in. Thanks!
Liz
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268

OK I have updated the spread sheet. I have changed the title on the original post in the forum. I will post at 9.00 and 10.00
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268

One last question I promise. Do you leave the food out or just allow them access for specific time like 30 minutes or an hour?
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268

One last question I promise. Do you leave the food out or just allow them access for specific time like 30 minutes or an hour?
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268

Please ask all the questions that you have. That's how you will learn. People do different things with the food. Depends on the cat and if there are other cats in the house. We don't leave the food out too long and make sure there is about 45 mins to an hour between feeding and testing so the test isn't too food influenced. Some cats like to eat a lot at a time and other cats are grazers.
Liz
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268

Yes, that is fine. Just be aware that it may be a little higher than without food and that it may come down as the carbs wear off. It's not a problem when Lotus is in the 200s. If a cat is in the greens, you have to be more aware of the effects of food. We found that we had to leave food out for Zener overnight (using an automatic feeder). He's a bit of a grazer and needs to eat at least every few hours.
Liz
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248

Poor creature she is so hot and so fed up with being poked and prodded.
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248

Poor girl. Let's see what her +2 is and you might be able to save some strips and call it a night.

Some people free feed but it's good if kitty can have all the allotted food before nadir; feeding after nadir can slow the effects of the insulin.
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248

Woo, what a dramatic intro to Lantus Land!! You're in the best of hands here as the folks who are giving you advice seriously know their stuff! Good job on dealing with a really stressful day and a really stressed out cat. That's a tough combo under the best of circumstances. Good luck and hugs to you and Lotus :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248/+2 195

I am concerned that her numbers are going down. Is that right? I mean she could be really low again in the morning. Is this the
result of eating or what.
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248/+2 195

You are right to be concerned...smart girl!

Here is what a typical lantus curve looks like:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
Click to expand...

So..if the +2 is much more then the PS, then we can assume its going to be a quiet cycle. If the +2 is similar to the PS, then you can expect a typical lantus cycle where numbers do come down. If the +2 is much less than the PS, you should expect s much more active cycle than a typical one.

I know you are tired, but chances are that she is going to come down tonight. Whether she will give you a low PS tomorrow is unknown. You still have the depot from the 1u affecting her even with the skipped shot this morning.

If she will let you, it's not a bad idea to get a +3 and see how fast she wants to onset. I'll still be up to help you...we are on the same time zone.
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248/+2 195

Frankly Marje at this stage I could just cry. I was so happy about the ultrasound and thought we were on the right track. I have
to be at the hospital tomorrow at 9.00 a.m. for an x ray on my knee ( i told you I had a replacement a month ago?)with all the
sitting (not supposed to sit just walk for short distances and lie down) walking and carrying the cat in her case my knee is killing
me. now I am hot, in pain and scared all over again. I am going to have a cold shower and will post again at 11.00
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248/+2 195

(((Cathy))))

Breathe...you aren't alone. No, we don't know what you re going through with this AND your knee. And it is possible the skipped shot this morning will keep her from going too low tonight. Don't be scared about Lotus. Nif I have to stay up all night and help you, I will, ok?

You need to take care of yourself to take care of her. Do what you need to take care of yourself. If she starts to come down, we can have you feed HC and abort any low cycle.
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248/+2 195

Thank God you are there. I don't think I could go through this alone. Thanks you so very very much. I will take her bg at 11.00 if
it is still dropping I guess I should keep doing it until it stabilizes? Long days journey into night isn't that what the poet said?
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248/+2 195

I am sorry to sound like such a whiny baby when you have all been so very nice to me. Please accept my apologizes and as the
Brits say I will try to keep a stiff upper lip from now on:)
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248/+2 195

Cathy,
You have been thru a roller coaster of emotions today. It is a steep learning curve and the emotions that come with it
are intense.
You are doing great !
And there you were, carrying your cat with a bum knee. You are making Lotus feel better.
It does get easier, and there are better days than others.
Take a deep breath and think about how far you came along today.
 
Re: 8/16 LOTUS PMPS 268/PMPS+1 248/+2 195

Rhiannon is right! You've come a long way in 24 hours.

You aren't being whiny. This is stressful at first and you have this and your knee issues to compound it. We are a support group so we will not only help you with managing her diabetes but also giving you emotional support.

I'll be here for your +3 and then we will see if we can make a plan, k?
 
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