Looking for advice on cats insulin dosage based off spreadsheet

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Megan Mayberry said:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u97DDsEbwd9HOum2TXWznO_zJ3LUZYUyFQt_OKme2Ck/edit

I have noticed every time my cat sees good numbers he bounces. I don’t know the best thing to do next. Any advice would be appreciated!! Currently eating fancy feast pate and Dr elseys chicken. Taking prozinc 2x a day
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Would you mind settling up your signature please and adding the spreadsheet to the signature so that it appears below all your posts?
Bouncing is very common in newly diagnosed cats. My Sheba was a champion bouncer!
Until he gets used to being in more normal numbers, he is going to bounce. It’s very normal. It could take a month or it could take a year. Every cat is different. Some cats bounce all the way to remission. Try not to get upset about it.
Are you following a dosing method.?
I’ll link a dosing method and tag @Suzanne & Darcy as she uses Prozinc
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Would you mind settling up your signature please and adding the spreadsheet to the signature so that it appears below all your posts?
Bouncing is very common in newly diagnosed cats. My Sheba was a champion bouncer!
Until he gets used to being in more normal numbers, he is going to bounce. It’s very normal. It could take a month or it could take a year. Every cat is different. Some cats bounce all the way to remission. Try not to get upset about it.
Are you following a dosing method.?
I’ll link a dosing method and tag @Suzanne & Darcy as she uses Prozinc
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Thanks for replying!! I’m new to this and hopefully did the signature correctly. I have read about the methods and was doing the slgs. My vet had me start at 2 units. I guess my question is when do I know when to increase when his numbers are so all over the place!!
 
Your SS is in the right place but you need to put information into the signature. I’m give you a link to what to do below.
Your SS looks very similar to all new diabetic cats. So don’t worry. It takes time for things to settle down. It can’t be hurried. You are doing well.
@Suzanne & Darcy will help you with the dosing.
 
Hi Megan this is the information we need about your kitty
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Bexacat or Senvelgo (if applicable) and dates
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
Do you see mine about Tyler in gray letters




Just tap on your name up too, then tap in signature and add this info, also can you add SLGS to your spreadsheet up too where it asks you


Have a hypo kit ready if needed
Med and High Carb food and have honey in your house



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods



https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
 
Hi there. I would be happy to help you. The doses have been changed a little too frequently. Tonight’s dose should have been 2.75. I didn’t see a reason for the 2.5. Hold the 2.75 units for a total of 14 cycles. You would only reduce if your cat drops below 99 and then the reduced dose would be 2.5 and you would hold that for 14 cycles as well. I know how hard it is to see them bouncing all over the place. Bounces can last up to six cycles but don’t necessarily last that long. I would be glad to work with you to help you. I must go to bed now (Eastern time and I get up at 5 a.m.) I will check back in with you tomorrow to see how things are going, okay? Welcome!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hi there. I would be happy to help you. The doses have been changed a little too frequently. Tonight’s dose should have been 2.75. I didn’t see a reason for the 2.5. Hold the 2.75 units for a total of 14 cycles. You would only reduce if your cat drops below 99 and then the reduced dose would be 2.5 and you would hold that for 14 cycles as well. I know how hard it is to see them bouncing all over the place. Bounces can last up to six cycles but don’t necessarily last that long. I would be glad to work with you to help you. I must go to bed now (Eastern time and I get up at 5 a.m.) I will check back in with you tomorrow to see how things are going, okay? Welcome!
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First off thank you for taking the time to help me. This journey has been frustrating and overwhelming to say the least. I lowered him to 2.5 because he dropped to 84 one night. I went back to 2.75 because I read 2 different things and was confused which now I know is the 2 different dosing meds. I think 2.5 is where I might need to stay for now based off this morning. Let me know if you think differently.
 
Megan Mayberry said:
First off thank you for taking the time to help me. This journey has been frustrating and overwhelming to say the least. I lowered him to 2.5 because he dropped to 84 one night. I went back to 2.75 because I read 2 different things and was confused which now I know is the 2 different dosing meds. I think 2.5 is where I might need to stay for now based off this morning. Let me know if you think differently.
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Well what is his diet? This will make a difference as to whether you follow SLGS or MPM. Have you been over on the ProZinc Forum? That’s where you will find the dosing methods. What kind of a meter do you use? This is the kind of stuff that you would put into your signature so we don’t have to keep asking you.
 
Megan Mayberry said:
I lowered him to 2.5 because he dropped to 84 one night. I went back to 2.75 because I read 2 different things and was confused which now I know is the 2 different dosing meds. I think 2.5 is where I might need to stay for now based off this morning. Let me know if you think differently.
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I saw the 84 on his spreadsheet (August 8) but since you had already increased him up to 2.75 after that on several cycles — and a couple of times he also got reduced back down to 2.5 when he had not dropped below 90 — so that is why I said to stick with 2.75. If you wish to lower him to 2.5 and hold it for 14 cycles and then your way up from there that’s fine too.
 
@Megan & Kitty Kitty

Hi Megan thanks for setting up your signature. What is the name of the LC Wet you are feeding. Only asking because I see on your spreadsheet you have feed Friskies Shreds at 5:00 PM we are all in different time zones so telling us what time doesn't help us. You would have to say something like this. Here's an example fed whatever food you fed @+4 ( which means 4 hours or @ +5 which means 5 hours.
some of then are 12, 13, or 14 % carbs which is not low carbs
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Megan Mayberry

Hi Megan thanks for setting up your signature. What is the name of the LC Wet you are feeding. Only asking because I see on your spreadsheet you have feed Friskies Shreds at 5:00 PM we are all in different time zones so telling us what time doesn't help us. You would have to say something like this. Here's an example fed whatever food you fed @+4 ( which means 4 hours or @ +5 which means 5 hours.
some of then are 12, 13, or 14 % carbs which is not low carbs
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I tried to change it in my signature but won’t let me save for some reason. I’ll try again. I feed him fancy feast. I had the friskies from before he was diagnosed and gave him a small amount because he was at 84 and I had to go to bed. I put +5pm so I knew that I gave it to him at +5 from his night time food
 
Megan & Kitty Kitty said:
I tried to change it in my signature but won’t let me save for some reason. I’ll try again. I feed him fancy feast. I had the friskies from before he was diagnosed and gave him a small amount because he was at 84 and I had to go to bed. I put +5pm so I knew that I gave it to him at +5 from his night time food
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To change it in your signature ,tap in your name up top, then tap on signature and just put FF Pate , is that what you are feeding ?
You can just delete LC Wet and put FF Pates then tap save.
You are feeding kibble correct ?
@Megan & Kitty Kitty
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
To change it in your signature ,tap in your name up top, then tap on signature and just put FF Pate , is that what you are feeding ?
You can just delete LC Wet and put FF Pates then tap save.
You are feeding kibble correct ?
@Megan & Kitty Kitty
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It let me do it this time. When I tried before it said I couldn’t save because it seemed like spam. Yes ff pate and a very small amount of kibble. He loves it and that’s what he mostly ate before so it’s been a transition.
 
@Megan & Kitty Kitty
You need to change where you have Megan Mayberry to
Megan & Kitty Kitty , in case à member wants to tag you
Tap on your name up top then tap on Personal Details, then look to the left and tap on Change User Name , then tap Save
 
@Megan & Kitty Kitty
One more thing lol,
There are 2 dosing methods with Prozinc
Since Kitty Kitty is having some kibble you need to follow the SLGS method. I will give you the link to read about.
Please add SLGS to your signature and to your spreadsheet up top where it asks you .

I'm going to tag Suzanne for you since she is our Prozinc Expert
You are never a bother
If you ever want to tag Suzanne you would put
@Suzanne & Darcy
You will know if you did it right after you hit post ,you will see @Suzanne & Darcy in blue.
If she is not around and you need help with something in your title first put a ? mark and then what you need help with.
I'll keep an eye on you ok :cat:

Here is the link about the dosing methods
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

Here is all the information about Prozinc also
Read all the yellow stickys when you get a chance
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Megan & Kitty Kitty
One more thing lol,
There are 2 dosing methods with Prozinc
Since Kitty Kitty is having some kibble you need to follow the SLGS method. I will give you the link to read about.
Please add SLGS to your signature and to your spreadsheet up top where it asks you .

I'm going to tag Suzanne for you since she is our Prozinc Expert
You are never a bother
If you ever want to tag Suzanne you would put
@Suzanne & Darcy
You will know if you did it right after you hit post ,you will see @Suzanne & Darcy in blue.
If she is not around and you need help with something in your title first put a ? mark and then what you need help with.
I'll keep an eye on you ok :cat:

Here is the link about the dosing methods
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/
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Thanks so much!!!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
So tell me about what and when he eats. Is he on low carb wet food?
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Hi Suzanne , Kitty Kitty is eating FF Pates , and also eats some Dr Elsey's chicken kibble . I know that are about 5 or 6 % carbs
Following SLGS
Megan says he eats
He eats at 5:30am/5:30pm

Suzanne would you prefer Megan to post on the Prozinc forum ? Or just
Continue on Feline Health just in case you are not around and she needs help.
@Suzanne & Darcy
 
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
I saw the 84 on his spreadsheet (August 8) but since you had already increased him up to 2.75 after that on several cycles — and a couple of times he also got reduced back down to 2.5 when he had not dropped below 90 — so that is why I said to stick with 2.75. If you wish to lower him to 2.5 and hold it for 14 cycles and then your way up from there that’s fine too.
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Did you see this about your dose? Did you read it and decide to stay with 2.5 or did you not see this message? @Megan & Kitty Kitty
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Okay so that’s not the best schedule for a diabetic cat. They do much better with small snacks spread out during the early portion of the cycle. I recommend that most cats have a snack at +2 and +4 to help prevent drops that are too steep/rapid, which is something that contributes to bouncing.
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Ok so I didn’t know this. So how much would you feed him each time? I did decide to stay at 2.5 to see what happens.
 
Megan & Kitty Kitty said:
Ok so I didn’t know this. So how much would you feed him each time? I did decide to stay at 2.5 to see what happens.
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The snacks are usually just a spoonful of low carb wet food. It can vary a little by the cat and things like how much they weigh and if they need to gain weight or lose weight or stay at the same weight. Right now you are mostly in higher numbers :( but it will be important later on when his numbers improve. Right now, it looks like you will be ready to increase on August 21 (7 days.)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
The snacks are usually just a spoonful of low carb wet food. It can vary a little by the cat and things like how much they weigh and if they need to gain weight or lose weight or stay at the same weight. Right now you are mostly in higher numbers :( but it will be important later on when his numbers improve. Right now, it looks like you will be ready to increase on August 21 (7 days.)
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Ok thanks. I will stay at this dose until then unless it drops below 90!
 
Megan & Kitty Kitty said:
Ok thanks. I will stay at this dose until then unless it drops below 90!
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Which it doesn’t currently look like will happen, but cats can surprise us. And try to start the snacks at +2 and +4 if you can. Small amount of LC wet is good. I just don’t recommend feeding after nadir because it can shorten the duration of the insulin. And I am sure you already know that you should not feed for two hours prior to the AMPS and PMPS tests.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Which it doesn’t currently look like will happen, but cats can surprise us. And try to start the snacks at +2 and +4 if you can. Small amount of LC wet is good. I just don’t recommend feeding after nadir because it can shorten the duration of the insulin. And I am sure you already know that you should not feed for two hours prior to the AMPS and PMPS tests.
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thank you for the help!! If i see that he’s staying really high like he is would you up him early just this one time since he’s had 2.5 or more consistently for awhile or is that a no no?
 
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Megan & Kitty Kitty said:
thank you for the help!! If i see that he’s staying really high like he is would you up him early just this one time since he’s had 2.5 or more consistently for awhile or is that a no no?
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@Suzanne & Darcy
@Megan & Kitty Kitty
Hi Megan I tagged Suzanne for you, but if it were my cat I would up Kitty Kitty's dose to 2.75 tomorrow morning and stay with that for 7 days unless he drops under 90. But let's see what @Suzanne & Darcy says
With SLGS we ask you to do a curve
Let me tag a few other member's for you to see what they think in case Suzanne isn't around.
@Bandit's Mom
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@tiffmaxee

Curve
Hold the dose for at least a week:
  • Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
Megan where you have 401 @+2.5 for today you should put that in the 2 cell not the 3 cell. Same goes for some other ones I see like the 357 @9.5 on the 15 th during the night cycle it should go in the 9 cell not the 10 cell. I see a few other ones but you can leave them if you want to . For the future do like I explained :cat::cat:
 
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Okay. I see you have increased to 2.75, which is what I had originally suggested. I am actually glad since it’s clear that the 2.5 is not working. However, unless dry food is cut out (I know, I am sorry) you should follow SLGS, which means holding the dose for 7 days (so now that means holding the 2.75 dose for 14 cycles.) UNLESS ketones are present (are you testing for ketones?) and I would do a little fast tracking in that case.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Okay. I see you have increased to 2.75, which is what I had originally suggested. I am actually glad since it’s clear that the 2.5 is not working. However, unless dry food is cut out (I know, I am sorry) you should follow SLGS, which means holding the dose for 7 days (so now that means holding the 2.75 dose for 14 cycles.) UNLESS ketones are present (are you testing for ketones?) and I would do a little fast tracking in that case.
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I did increase and probably should have listened before I just worry and overthink too much :/ I have not tested for ketones but I guess that should be done too. I do usually add extra water to his food to make sure he gets enough.
 
Megan & Kitty Kitty said:
I did increase and probably should have listened before I just worry and overthink too much :/ I have not tested for ketones but I guess that should be done too. I do usually add extra water to his food to make sure he gets enough.
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It’s okay. I would like to see him in much better numbers, too. With the higher numbers, I would like to know if ketones are present (either with urine strips or a blood ketone meter) but if no ketones are present then we can take a little time and plow ahead to find the better dose. It is hard to be patient, believe me, I understand.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
It’s okay. I would like to see him in much better numbers, too. With the higher numbers, I would like to know if ketones are present (either with urine strips or a blood ketone meter) but if no ketones are present then we can take a little time and plow ahead to find the better dose. It is hard to be patient, believe me, I understand.
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What is the best way to test ketones? I know when he was diagnosed it said trace but he hasn’t showed any signs of anything.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Well, I bought a blood ketone meter, the Nova Max Plus, but some people use the Keto Stix that have to be placed into the cat’s urine stream. I just want to make sure he’s not in any danger of DKA.
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@Suzanne & Darcy
Ok. I’ll definitely look into getting one of them. 2.75 does seem to be helping. My question though is why does his nadir seem to be close to shot time? Is that normal?
 
Megan & Kitty Kitty said:
@Suzanne & Darcy
Ok. I’ll definitely look into getting one of them. 2.75 does seem to be helping. My question though is why does his nadir seem to be close to shot time? Is that normal?
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If he’s breaking a bounce from not being used to low numbers then it certainly can happen that way. He’s in the very early stages of receiving insulin. This should hopefully straighten out before too long.
 
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