Loco's Journey

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Funky

Member Since 2012
To start with here is Loco's Profile - https://sites.google.com/site/locodiabetes/

Loco's Spreadsheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai5D6Zd09iDYdDNYN2VvNHBRNXNHUzEyLXFBaS1oZ2c#gid=0


And a little more about the beautiful kitty -

So our cat Loco has just been diagnosed with diabetes. He is 6 years old. He is the most loving amazing cat ever and i have had quite a few. However there is a very agrresive side to him sometimes. We adopted him at a couple of months old and something bad must have happened him as a kitten. It almost seems as if he is schizophrenic. He will just lose it from nowhere and attack us. The wierd thing is he would never, ever go near your face. Just pounce at your arm or leg or bum. Its very bizarre because his eyes just go really big from nowhere and he starts snorting and then boom. Then after a few seconds his eyes go back to normal and hes all over you purring again looking at you wierd because your not loving him back :shock: But he only ever does it to us, never to visitors or strangers. He is quite the scared cat when people are around. I am just trying to paint a picture of his history here, i hope i havent scared anyone off. Like i said he is actually the most loving cat, he will follows us everywhere around the house. In fact he has a small cat as a teddy that he also brings around to whatever room we are in so it can sleep there too :lol:

He was always an overweight cat which didnt help being indoor. So about a year ago the vet told us to put him on an obesity biccie only diet. I resisted this strongly but stupidly agreed after trying to feed him less. We tried the dry food only diet but he wouldnt eat much at all so would supplement it with treats. I now realise this was a big mistake. We stopped the diet about 6 months ago. About 4 months ago loco started to lose weigtht, a small bit at first but then it became a large amount. He was 9kg, i know huge! But now he is 6kg. He looks unhealthy now as his sides are all hollwed in.

He hates the vets and gets so bad everytime we bring him there. So anyway we brought him to the vet who did tests. They messed up the blood sample for the glucose somehow so we brought in a urine sample. From this they could tell his glucose level was very high. So later that day we brought him in and they did an ear prick and took the level and it was confirmed. He has been put on steroids twice in the past year for an eye infection and i cant remember what the other thing was. I like the vet, they are very friendly there and he has been with them his whole life. But then the vet said he needs to go back on the obesity biccies. I had read a slight amount of info inbetween bringing him to the vet for the blood tests and the results and had seen dry food was not good. I said that to the vet but she dismissed it. I also reminded her on the dry obesity biccie diet he actually put on weight and i thought it was abad idea to switch him back on it but she insisted he needed to lose more weigtht and dry food only was best for a diabetic cat.

Obvisouly i now know better from research. He was diagnosed on the 9th July. He is on caninsilin, at 2ml twice a day. The vet wanted him back in a week after but she gives me a sedative in tablet form for him as he gets too scared and aggresive at the vets. I bought a glucometer nearly two weeks ago and we switched him to a wet food diet while giving him a break from the insulin while he changed. He is always hungry and has always been the same. Before he started to lose the weight he would gobble anything he saw in sight. While he was losing it he got really picky with his food. But since the insulin shots he has become ravenous again. I obviopsuly dont want him hungry but i also dont want him overweight again. How many packets of the wet food should he eat a day? He adores his treat of boiled chicken at dinner time also. The meals he is on at the moment are:


6am - 1/2 Felix 'as good as it looks' 50g
5am - 10am - Small Boiled chicken free feed bowl
1pm - 1 x Felix 'as good as it looks' 100g
6pm - 1/2 Felix 'as good as it looks' 50g
8pm - Small boiled chicken treat
1am - 1 x Felix 'as good as it looks' 100g


I am unsure is this the right amount. Like i said i do not want him to become overweigth again but dont want him hungry either. There is so much to take in and i am so glad for the internet and sites to help with what to do. His bloods seem to have increased since being on the insulin the second time which is odd. I was hoping his blood levels would stabalise more then they have the past week to do a 2 hourly curve. But i will do one this tuesday if this would help in where to go from here. Any advice would be brilliant!


Last but not least heres the loveable rogue himself, with his step brother and sister who unfortunatly now live at their grannies as he didnt love them half as much as he loved his toy cuddly kitten :sad: Also this is back when he was at his top weight!



Loco1-1.jpg


Loco3-1.jpg


Loco2-1.jpg


Loco4-1.jpg
 
Hello.
I think you have found the best place to be given your circumstances. Everyone here will be eager to help.
Loco sounds like a good name for him. Nothing scary about a fun loving cat. He sounds like he has an active imagination and you are just his imaginary prey as he hunts thru his urban jungle. ( your house)
" the adventures of Loco"

1) where are you from?
I ask because of the insulin you are on. Some locations don't have anything else available. Canninsulin is generally an insulin
for dogs and can be harder to work with for cats but there are plenty here who use it. Many vets are more familiar with it
then the new ones and that's what they give out.
And there may be someone here nearby who can help.

2) He is young and some of what he has been thru could have helped him become diabetic.
the steroids, the diet /dry food which could be high in carbs ( many of the "prescription" foods are bad)
If you caught this quick enough, and it sounds like you have from what you said, I would guess that you hae a decent
chance of getting him to remission. That doesn't mean it can't come back. Health issues that crop up later can bring
the diabetes right back .

There is also a forum in the insulin groups for cannisulin that you should be reading some of their posts as they have the same
insulin.

Have you read www.catinfo.org
it has lots of info about proper diet.


There are a couple of emergencies going on so please be patient while waiting for others to post to you.
Keep asking questions.
Welcome.

I'm hoping someone will know the carb value of the food you talked about.
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
Hello.
I think you have found the best place to be given your circumstances. Everyone here will be eager to help.
Loco sounds like a good name for him. Nothing scary about a fun loving cat. He sounds like he has an active imagination and you are just his imaginary prey as he hunts thru his urban jungle. ( your house)
" the adventures of Loco"

1) where are you from?
I ask because of the insulin you are on. Some locations don't have anything else available. Canninsulin is generally an insulin
for dogs and can be harder to work with for cats but there are plenty here who use it. Many vets are more familiar with it
then the new ones and that's what they give out.
And there may be someone here nearby who can help.

2) He is young and some of what he has been thru could have helped him become diabetic.
the steroids, the diet /dry food which could be high in carbs ( many of the "prescription" foods are bad)
If you caught this quick enough, and it sounds like you have from what you said, I would guess that you hae a decent
chance of getting him to remission. That doesn't mean it can't come back. Health issues that crop up later can bring
the diabetes right back .

There is also a forum in the insulin groups for cannisulin that you should be reading some of their posts as they have the same
insulin.

Have you read www.catinfo.org
it has lots of info about proper diet.


There are a couple of emergencies going on so please be patient while waiting for others to post to you.
Keep asking questions.
Welcome.

I'm hoping someone will know the carb value of the food you talked about.


Thanks so much for getting back to us! Funny as i used your profile to model locos earlier today!

Unfortunatly in ireland where i am located it seems caninsulin is the only insulin available. I would love to get my hands on lantus but as of yet i can't find a vet with it. None of the vets seem to know much at all about diabetes and certainly nothing much about good diets. I have read as much as i can and have only touched the surface. I believe the felix 'as good as it looks' is a good food. It is the best from around here. I will also be getting some bozita cat food from zooplus soon.

Here is how i found out about felix, notice its the 'good as it looks' one i use - https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=ph0pC__SMowp99AldyMIASQ

and also here - http://www.diabeticcatcare.com/DCCCOK/UK.htm

which says it is 6.5% carbs
 
Sorry to hijack your thread, but given the number of non-US members with sugarcats who seem to have a very difficult time getting anything but Caninsulin, it makes me wonder: what the heck do they have available for human diabetics? Is there a way for you to get some of that instead? My Donovan started on Caninsulin (known as Vetsulin in the US) and he did not do well on it. I switched him to Levemir, which is very similar to Lantus, and he went into remission.

MJ
 
MJ+Donovan said:
Sorry to hijack your thread, but given the number of non-US members with sugarcats who seem to have a very difficult time getting anything but Caninsulin, it makes me wonder: what the heck do they have available for human diabetics? Is there a way for you to get some of that instead? My Donovan started on Caninsulin (known as Vetsulin in the US) and he did not do well on it. I switched him to Levemir, which is very similar to Lantus, and he went into remission.

MJ

Mj - I am not sure! I don't know anyone with human diabetes. But i will start ringing around vets soon and see are any open to prescribing. I would definitely need an open minded vet. Unfortunately from my experience, all vets i have been to are focused on dogs and cats are a distant last on the list ohmygod_smile
 
I disappeared there. I had unexpected drop in guests and had to visit with them.

I was trying to look up the diet food you mentioned. I've heard of the canned you mentioned. If the diet food is anything
like the U.S. versions, they are all too high in carbs.
I think as you learn and explore , you will find more foods .
Type in U. K. in your subject and you might hear from lots of others dealing with the same availability issues , food, insulin.
I really thought I read here somewhere that Lantus is available in the U.K. but you have to push for it.
If the Levamir is there, that seems to be a good one too. So, perhaps, you can find a better one.

There is a search option at the upper right. type in canninsulin and you will probably see all the other questions and chatter
about it and that would reveal more to you than I would be able to.

I believe if you were just on the right foods , hi protein more than anything , the weight will come back off. It's high carb
and high fat that really hurts them. ( I haven't tried any of the duck foods we have because duck is always high in fat)
that website I mentioned. www.catinfo.org is all about feeding the right things and how to do it.
I wanted to try the raw ( or even slightly cooked homemade). I bought a bag of the raw that is now becoming widely available
but my girl isn't impressed. I keep presenting it to her every other day so maybe she'll convert over time.

This website provides so much information. Just keep exploring and reading it because it all starts falling into place and you
start seeing the path. And anything you can't find, you just ask. Someone here has been there, done that.
Its like a giant jigsaw puzzle and I'm sorting thru the pieces.

My girl was diagnosed on July 7, so you and I found out about the same time.
My vet is kinda surprised how I just took the ball and ran. She hasn't had to give me any input really and she just watches
our numbers online, touches base every so often.

You mentioned the treats. I was overindulging mine with the common store treats too. Shadow wasn't eating much dry anymore
but she ate all gravy canned food and lots of treats.
She hasn't been interested in the freeze dried treats so much except for the new one I found that are little freeze dried shrimp.
Those get her attention. You will have to hunt to find the right treats as well. But if yours likes boiled chicken, that sounds
like a winner. all protein and you can make it yourself.

What part of Ireland? We just promised our daughter a trip to Ireland some year in the future.
I had told her then that the trip wouldn't happen until Shadow wasn't here anymore , before we knew about the diabetes.
Now I couldn't leave her if I wanted to because I won't leave for a month or so. I just couldn't and I wouldn't.
If I get Shadow in remission, she might live a lot longer now.....
 
I have studied and researched foods alright and the felix food is not like whiskas and all the rest of the sachet foods. It is far better and has really high protein and very low carbs. I have seen this on about 3 seperate sites and it is also listed as a complete meal so should be perfect for him :)

Unfortunatly ireland isn't part of the uk so even if the uk does supply lantus i wouldnt be able to get it here :( The more i look it seems perhaps pzi may be the only other option? Thats brillaint your vet is cooperating!

Its southern ireland mostly, but dublin too! Its a shame i am sure she would love it here. Although the constant rain is a bit hard to take. It's true though having a diabetic cat definitely cuts down on your holidays, no nil! :lol: Thanks for the post!
 
okay.
well. maybe try a post with "anyone in Ireland?" and see if you get a response.

I hope your vet will cooperate with exploring using the levamir. A lot of vets don't want to venture outside
their own comfort zone. As you said, they don't know a lot about diabetes. ( especially in cats)
And if all they know is one particular insulin, they don't want to spend all the extra time learning new tricks.

I think you should read other people's posts in the canninsulin support group so you'll know all the ups and downs
about it. It will help you to present your case to the vet when they want you to take an action that you don't agree with.
Since your cat is so young and it sounds like you discovered it quickly, you have an excellent chance for remission. I'd hate for your vet to hinder that possibility.

Sounds like you've got the food issue down.


I'll take your rain over my drought. My town has caught on fire twice in the last decade.

I spent time over there years ago. I was looking forward to the rain and of course, :roll: I seemed to
have brought the sunshine with me. It barely rained in London that spring. Everyone would go out and sit in the sun at the parks.
 
Lantus vs Levimir vs Pzi

I am only online for a few minutes so only time for a quick question. I have been curving loco the past few days and will be visiting the vets tomorrow with the data. If i am asking for an insulin switch, which would be the best to push for?

Lantus vx Levemir vs Pzi?


Thanks and i will be back as soon as i can to post numbers!!! :smile:
 
Since they are hard to get there, I'll consider you lucky to get any of them.

I have lantus. Lantus is one with really great results for remission.
It builds upon itself. So it's a long acting insulin.

I can't speak for the other two.
 
I searched and found two previous members in Ireland. Neither has posted in a year , but they may still respond to a private message if it goes to their regular email. You can send a private message to them.


Moof86 in Belfast
Bandubh in " rural Ireland"
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
Since they are hard to get there, I'll consider you lucky to get any of them.

I have lantus. Lantus is one with really great results for remission.
It builds upon itself. So it's a long acting insulin.

I can't speak for the other two.

Your right i would be very lucky! Keep your fingers crossed for us nailbite_smile
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I searched and found two previous members in Ireland. Neither has posted in a year , but they may still respond to a private message if it goes to their regular email. You can send a private message to them.


Moof86 in Belfast
Bandubh in " rural Ireland"

Thanks a million i will pm them now!
 
Great news, i got lantus :) A friendly chemist is helping me out! So i will be switching over, not sure how to exactly so looking for some advice. Also what would be the best dose to start him on? Yay!!! :-D
 
Fantastic news! So I assume you will be working on your own without a vet? It is really important then that you understand how it works in cats, how to dose etc. (or if you are working with a vet, as he may not have used it in cats before)

On this page are starred topics at the top.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9
They have the information you need.

Then post on that same page - put Newbie and Dose advice in the subject line to attract attention. You can do the tight regulation method with more frequent testing and tighter control or Start Low and Go Slow. Just let them know.
 
Welcome to FDMB (belatedly).

If you are planning on switching over to Lantus, we typically suggest that you reduce your dose by 30% of your Canninsulin dose. Some cats have a marked response to a new insulin so we build in a buffer. In other words, if you are currently at a dose of 3.0u, your starting dose of Lantus would be 2.0u. Lantus is very different than Canninsulin. Dosing is based on the nadir, or lowest point in the cycle. As such, it's important that you not only get a pre-shot test, but also that you get at least one spot check during both the AM and PM cycle.

There is a great deal of information about Lantus and its use in the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Lantus TR board. I've linked the information below.
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Lantus & Levemir: Shooting & Handling Low Numbers: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation as well as information if you have a low pre-shot number or a drop into low numbers during the cycle.

Please let us know how we can help.
 
Hi,
Here is a link with instructions for setting up a spreadsheet.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
If you have any troubles , there are lots of people here who can help you get it set up.
This is a wonderful tool so that others can see your dosage and bg levels.


It would be great if you could go ahead and put in the numbers where you have been testing already.
Home monitoring is very important for dosing for Lantus.
You need at least 3 tests each day . AM pre-shot, PM preshot, and the middle ( often the nadir).
More is better. The more information you have on learning your cat's pattern, the better.
 
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