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Hi there Lily the
Gourmet gold turkey and duck is High Carb 29% I use the chicken and salmon variety when I need to bring Georges numbers up. So you could use that when you see her numbers drop below 50, just a couple of tsps mind not the whole tin.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
I've been looking at Lily's spreadsheet....did she actually have a hypo a couple of days ago? I see you've recently switched from another insulin to Lantus....I assume she was not responding to the other insulin?
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She was definitely not responding to the caninsulin, hence the DKA.
Gill & George said:
Hi there Lily the
Gourmet gold turkey and duck is High Carb 29% I use the chicken and salmon variety when I need to bring Georges numbers up. So you could use that when you see her numbers drop below 50, just a couple of tsps mind not the whole tin.
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Thank you, that is good to know, I will give that now.
 
Phew glad I caught you.
Test thirty minutes after the 108 like Judy said, then if she has dropped below 50 give the HC and then post, any other number just post. She may, paws crossed just surf on blue.
Have you been using the U100 syringes?
 
Lily-Fish said:
before that she ate some low carb (wainrights complete salmon and veg)
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Hi Becka, I think the Wainright's salmon and veg is about 12% calories from carbs, so is not technically a low carb food. And it may be that Lily's numbers would have dropped even lower if she hadn't eaten this earlier.
What foods do you normally feed her?
I'm wondering if it's possible to lower the carb content of her diet further, and reduce the need for insulin even more....? Something to think about later....
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Becka, I think the Wainright's salmon and veg is about 12% calories from carbs, so is not technically a low carb food. And it may be that Lily's numbers would have dropped even lower if she hadn't eaten this earlier.
What foods do you normally feed her?
I'm wondering if it's possible to lower the carb content of her diet further, and reduce the need for insulin even more....? Something to think about later....
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I gave her the wainrights because I thought she needed a little extra (mainly to reassure myself) when I went to uni. She is usually on the Applaws tuna and mussels, which I am fairly sure is low carb.

I have been using the U100 syringes, I will test in 5 minutes
 
Hmmm....I'm not a dosing expert so this is just my opinion and I would want some experts to please give dosage advice.....but if you switch Lily to low carb I would be tempted to not give her insulin for a few days to see if the low carb foods are enough to bring her BGs down to normal levels.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
Hmmm....I'm not a dosing expert so this is just my opinion and I would want some experts to please give dosage advice.....but if you switch Lily to low carb I would be tempted to not give her insulin for a few days to see if the low carb foods are enough to bring her BGs down to normal levels.
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I would love to do that, but I am worried as she is a DKA kitty... It would be lovely to not have to shoot anymore.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
I'm wondering if it's possible to lower the carb content of her diet further, and reduce the need for insulin even more....? Something to think about later....
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I am wondering with Lily's very, very recent DKA history whether the moderate carbs plus an appropriate dose of insulin might actually be more beneficial as a treatment strategy in the short term? (Speculating here - no experience of this but I've often seen @Meya14 and @Marje and Gracie discuss giving a food that's a bit higher in carbs so as to allow for regular administration of insulin to promote a strong post-DKA recovery.)


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
I am wondering with Lily's very, very recent DKA history whether the moderate carbs plus an appropriate dose of insulin might actually be more beneficial as a treatment strategy in the short term? (Speculating here - no experience of this but I've often seen @Meya14 and @Marje and Gracie discuss giving a food that's a bit higher in carbs so as to allow for regular administration of insulin to promote a strong post-DKA recovery.)
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Ah yes, very good point, Mogs (in light of the DKA)....
 
Judy and Boomer said:
but if you switch Lily to low carb I would be tempted to not give her insulin for a few days to see if the low carb foods are enough to bring her BGs down to normal levels.
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That can work for some kitties, Judy. (I've used that technique with Saoirse at times). However, for info Lily has been hospitalized for DKA (twice) so she's very ketone-prone. Therefore extra caution is needed to make sure she always has enough insulin and that will very much determine the treatment approaches open to Becka.


Mogs
.
 
Gill & George said:
I think that variety (if it's the senior) is more like 14% ( I use the online calc, so stand to be corrected) @Elizabeth and Bertie do you agree it's more like MC.
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Hmmm, yes, according to the 'analysis' it does come out as more 'medium carb' (my calculator makes it 14.8%)
It's odd though, because the label says it only contains tuna and mussels, with no additives; and yet the typical analysis percentages only add up to 97.5% and not 100%, so....what is the other 2.5% I wonder...? Or maybe the labelling is just incorrect...?
 
Critter Mom said:
That can work for some kitties, Judy. (I've used that technique with Saoirse at times). However, for info Lily has been hospitalized for DKA (twice) so she's very ketone-prone. Therefore extra caution is needed to make sure she always has enough insulin and that will very much determine the treatment approaches open to Becka.


Mogs
.
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Thanks! I totally missed the DKA info! Obviously not the right approach to getting Lily into remission.
 
Gill & George said:
Just popping out for an hour and half ladies, have to get his Lordships wee sample to the Vets.

Hope she continues to surf nicely in the blues for you.:bighug::bighug:
And as Andy says it does get easier once you learn her patterns.
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Thanks, may your visit to the vets treat you well (and may you not smell of the vets when you leave!)
 
Judy and Boomer said:
Hi Becka, have you done any further tests? Just want to make sure Lily doesn't drop again :)
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I have not. Clinically, she has improved, she is more alert and friendly and her paws are very warm. I'm thinking maybe a bounce. i will test again soon. How far should you put the lancet in? every time I test she yelps (doesn't matter whether it is ear or pad) I am definitely hurting her. I don't know if I'm just poking her like I'm wearing oven gloves.
 
I actually use one of the testers that humans use on their fingers. I don't think you should need to put it in very far. There is some information on this site about testing.....I'll see if I can find it.
 
Lily-Fish said:
You can use the machine for the lancets, and it won't hurt as much?
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You definitely can, although if it clicks it could scare her. If you're freehanding the lancet, make sure the bevel is up, just like when you're inserting a syringe, and hold it at an angle. It only needs to go in about a mm.
 
I am managing to get blood, just she is yelping at me. Maybe it is because she doesn't like being held very much. She is definitely her own woman.
 
Lily-Fish said:
You can use the machine for the lancets, and it won't hurt as much?
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It's really a matter of personal preference. Some folks prefer to use the lancet 'freehand', and some prefer to use the lancet in the lancing device. I've tried both methods and now much prefer to use the lancet in the lancing device, partly because it's so quick, and partly because my close vision isn't that great (and the lancing device is easier to use if that's the case).
The lancing device does make a little clicking sound. But I quickly got Bertie used to that by clicking it a few times and then giving him a treat. :cat:

It really shouldn't hurt Lily much, if at all. Maybe it is that she doesn't like being held...?
I crumble a few treats for Bertie and test him while he's munching on those. That way I can get the test done really quickly and hardly have to touch him at all.

There are a few people here who prefer to test the paw rather than the ear. So, that may be another option for you if ear-testing doesn't get any easier....?
.
 
I'm not a dosing expert so this is just my opinion and I would want some experts to please give dosage advice.....but if you switch Lily to low carb I would be tempted to not give her insulin for a few days to see if the low carb foods are enough to bring her BGs down to normal levels.
Click to expand...

In some cases this is correct. In a cat that is recently recovering from DKA this could be literally, dead wrong.

First, Lily's depot has not yet fully formed. It takes 5 or more days for this to occur and Lily has not been on Lantus that long.

With her numbers today, Lily's has earned a dose reduction. Your new dose going forward is 0.25u twice a day.

If you've not tried it, you can use a bit of Neosporin with Pain Relief ointment (not the cream) on Lily's ear. It will promote healing, help the blood to bead up, and dull the poke.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
It's really a matter of personal preference. Some folks prefer to use the lancet 'freehand', and some prefer to use the lancet in the lancing device. I've tried both methods and now much prefer to use the lancet in the lancing device, partly because it's so quick, and partly because my close vision isn't that great (and the lancing device is easier to use if that's the case).
The lancing device does make a little clicking sound. But I quickly got Bertie used to that by clicking it a few times and then giving him a treat. :cat:

It really shouldn't hurt Lily much, if at all. Maybe it is that she doesn't like being held...?
I crumble a few treats for Bertie and test him while he's munching on those. That way I can get the test done really quickly and hardly have to touch him at all.

There are a few people here who prefer to test the paw rather than the ear. So, that may be another option for you if ear-testing doesn't get any easier....?
.
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I moved to the paw yesterday and she seems like she squirms less with those. I tried to get blood from the paw though and had to lance the back foot in the end (even though I know she hates it)
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
In some cases this is correct. In a cat that is recently recovering from DKA this could be literally, dead wrong.

First, Lily's depot has not yet fully formed. It takes 5 or more days for this to occur and Lily has not been on Lantus that long.

With her numbers today, Lily's has earned a dose reduction. Your new dose going forward is 0.25u twice a day.

If you've not tried it, you can use a bit of Neosporin with Pain Relief ointment (not the cream) on Lily's ear. It will promote healing, help the blood to bead up, and dull the poke.
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Yes that was definitely an error; I hadn't seen that there was a DKA history.
 
Waiting for the surgery to open:rolleyes: and just my luck that yhe local cafe is shut on mondays, keeping warm in the car. so I thought I check in on Lily:)

Becka I saw on your SS that the emergency vet gave you some canininsulin syringes, I take it you are not using those?
You need to use the u100, with lantus as you probably know the caninsulin is u40. Just checking.

Nice to see she has an appetite and crisis averted.
Hope she doesn't bounce for too long:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Gill & George said:
Waiting for the surgery to open:rolleyes: and just my luck that yhe local cafe is shut on mondays, keeping warm in the car. so I thought I check in on Lily:)

Becka I saw on your SS that the emergency vet gave you some canininsulin syringes, I take it you are not using those?
You need to use the u100, with lantus as you probably know the caninsulin is u40. Just checking.

Nice to see she has an appetite and crisis averted.
Hope she doesn't bounce for too long:bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Hope you are warm!
Definitely not using the U40 syringes! I was very concerned when I found a used caninsulin syringe with remnants of the insulin still there. I phoned the vet and asked what was going on, they said that it was a mistake to put the syringe in the bag. I am slightly annoyed, but there you go. We shall start at the 0.25 u tonight and see how that takes her.
What time is it where you are?
 
Lily-Fish said:
Hope you are warm!
Definitely not using the U40 syringes! I was very concerned when I found a used caninsulin syringe with remnants of the insulin still there. I phoned the vet and asked what was going on, they said that it was a mistake to put the syringe in the bag. I am slightly annoyed, but there you go. We shall start at the 0.25 u tonight and see how that takes her.
What time is it where you are?
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Good job you knew the difference, could have resulted in an OD!
Hope her cycles settle down a bit for her and you:)
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
If you've not tried it, you can use a bit of Neosporin with Pain Relief ointment (not the cream) on Lily's ear. It will promote healing, help the blood to bead up, and dull the poke.
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We can't get Neosporin in the UK. But it can help to put the teensiest, weensiest smear of Vaseline on the outer edge of the ear. That will help the blood to 'bead up'.
And pressing on the test site afterwards will help to minimise bruising.
.
 
:) Yeah, I think Lily is getting bruised little paws. I used my torch earlier and I can see her little ears are all bruised so I am trying to give them a chance to heal a little before another full on assault.
 
Lily-Fish said:
I used my torch earlier and I can see her little ears are all bruised so I am trying to give them a chance to heal a little before another full on assault.
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It is amazing what their ears can tolerate. They seem to toughen up somehow (or certainly become less prone to bruising); and they also start to bleed more easily by, very helpfully, forming more blood vessels.
You may find that one ear bleeds much more easily than the other.
.
 
Hi Becka

What a morning for you and Miss Lily. Just in case you didn't see it, I will repeat that you need to be sure and take her dose to 0.25u tonight which looks like this:

image.jpeg


Lily-Fish said:
My little girl has definitely bounced! 373.
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Not sure I'd call that a bounce. More likely the carbs and honey put the kabosh on her insulin duration. It's likely she may also bounce.

I know the 40 was scary and we should always get kitty up quickly. It's hard to do at first without cauisng her insulin to poop out but the emphasis has to be on getting her up. Believe me, we've all done this and it is an art to learn how to quickly raise the BG without causing kitty to lose duration and it's ECID.

Since Lily likes to take a big drop early and you have to leave, at least for the next few cycles, I would start to get a test at +1, +2, and +3 or until you have to leave (which might be before those times as I know you are trying to adjust her schedule) and sort out where she is dropping. If you can slow th drop with a bit of higher low carb food, then you can guide the numbers down.......that is the hope.

And here's a post on How to Handle Low Numbers in case you are alone when she hits a lower number.
 
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Marje and Gracie said:
Hi Becka

What a morning for you and Miss Lily. Just in case you didn't see it, I will repeat that you need to be sure and take her dose to 0.25u tonight which looks like this:

View attachment 19068


Not sure I'd call that a bounce. More likely the carbs and honey put the kabosh on her insulin duration. It's likely she may also bounce.

I know the 40 was scary and we should always get kitty up quickly. It's hard to do at first without cauisng her insulin to poop out but the emphasis has to be on getting her up. Believe me, we've wll done this and it is an art to learn because ECID.

Since Lily likes to take a big drop early and you have to leave, at least for the next few cycles, I would start to get a test at +1, +2, and +3 or until you have to leave (which might be before those times as I know you are trying to adjust her schedule) and sort out where she is dropping. If you can slow th drop with a bit of higher low carb food, then you can guide the numbers down.......that is the hope.

And here's a post on How to Handle Low Numbers in case you are alone when she hits a lower number.
Click to expand...
I have tried to find syringes with half unit markings everywhere! at the moment I am using the syringes that have 1u markings only and they are really close together. I have managed 0.25 before now, it is just difficult! Thank you for all the advice :). I will give the insulin 15 mins early this evening and keep going til I get her to the right time so I can get some early numbers.
 
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