Lantus user! Should I shoot?
- Thread starter tortie58
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Mystery
Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
You might want to post a little more information so that people will be better able to assist. Usually they need to know what kind of insulin you are using, when was last feeding and what kind of food are you giving kitty now, are there any other illnesses being treated, and anything else that might influence how much insulin kitty needs.
I'm NOT one that can give advice, but from what little info is available, it might be wise to hold off if giving insulin until someone with some experience is able to respond. Three units for a PS of 86 seems like a really high dose, so if you can wait until others post, it might be a good idea.
You might want to post a little more information so that people will be better able to assist. Usually they need to know what kind of insulin you are using, when was last feeding and what kind of food are you giving kitty now, are there any other illnesses being treated, and anything else that might influence how much insulin kitty needs.
I'm NOT one that can give advice, but from what little info is available, it might be wise to hold off if giving insulin until someone with some experience is able to respond. Three units for a PS of 86 seems like a really high dose, so if you can wait until others post, it might be a good idea.
Catannc
Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
I think all the experienced people get notified when you post an question in the dosing section, they always pop online right after I start having a problem. I was told don't shoot below 200 but I don't know if this is only my insulin, wait for someone who is experienced.
I think all the experienced people get notified when you post an question in the dosing section, they always pop online right after I start having a problem. I was told don't shoot below 200 but I don't know if this is only my insulin, wait for someone who is experienced.
MelanieAndRacci
Very Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
I'm going to look at your spreadsheet now but you don't shoot for 2 more hours? Please let me know if this if right.
If this is true and you are taking a test 2 hours before the shot, it is too soon to decide. Rosey could shoot up by the time it is shot time and the test result should be in the +10 column.
The AMPS is for a test taken just before her shot and then you feed her (less than an hour at most) I start getting things ready for Racci about 1 hour early and don't test till 1/2 hour before the shot.
Melanie
I'm going to look at your spreadsheet now but you don't shoot for 2 more hours? Please let me know if this if right.
If this is true and you are taking a test 2 hours before the shot, it is too soon to decide. Rosey could shoot up by the time it is shot time and the test result should be in the +10 column.
The AMPS is for a test taken just before her shot and then you feed her (less than an hour at most) I start getting things ready for Racci about 1 hour early and don't test till 1/2 hour before the shot.
Melanie
Grayson & Lu
Very Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
Tortie -
This probably has to be a wait and see. If the cat has a sharp increase in the next hour, hour & a half, maybe... but not definitively. This statement is based on Prozinc. Other insulins are different, and I can't answer for them.
If you're on Prozinc, you should NOT feed if you're 2 hours from a shot. Your dose is not based on the food increase - we shoot Prozinc on PRE-food numbers. That's why you generally don't feed them in the last two hours before you shoot.
You'll find more experienced folks on the specific insulin board, so you should probably re-post this message there.
Lu-Ann
tortie58 said:
Tortie -
This probably has to be a wait and see. If the cat has a sharp increase in the next hour, hour & a half, maybe... but not definitively. This statement is based on Prozinc. Other insulins are different, and I can't answer for them.
If you're on Prozinc, you should NOT feed if you're 2 hours from a shot. Your dose is not based on the food increase - we shoot Prozinc on PRE-food numbers. That's why you generally don't feed them in the last two hours before you shoot.
You'll find more experienced folks on the specific insulin board, so you should probably re-post this message there.
Lu-Ann
squeem3
Very Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
OP's first post on FDMB: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?t=64764
Lantus user and using meter that measures in mmol. Started at 1 unit BID in last December, upped to 2 units BID, and now on 3 units BID. Looks like her SS is up to date. But i"m confused. She put 86 in the AMPS column but said insulin is not due for 2 more hours? I think she meant +10 is 86?
86 mg/dl is a normal non-diabetic number and great to have :smile: You do not need to feed any food for a number like this if insulin is due in 2 hours. Giving food now may cause the bg to spike up by the time insulin is due.
OP's first post on FDMB: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?t=64764
Lantus user and using meter that measures in mmol. Started at 1 unit BID in last December, upped to 2 units BID, and now on 3 units BID. Looks like her SS is up to date. But i"m confused. She put 86 in the AMPS column but said insulin is not due for 2 more hours? I think she meant +10 is 86?
86 mg/dl is a normal non-diabetic number and great to have :smile: You do not need to feed any food for a number like this if insulin is due in 2 hours. Giving food now may cause the bg to spike up by the time insulin is due.
MelanieAndRacci
Very Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
Yes. See my post. She's on Lantus and I think she has it in the wrong column. Should not feed on lantus either until after the test just before the shot. not 2 hours away.
Melanie & Racci
Yes. See my post. She's on Lantus and I think she has it in the wrong column. Should not feed on lantus either until after the test just before the shot. not 2 hours away.
Melanie & Racci
Re: Should I shoot?
Well tortie,
you are see the results of the food change.... you take away all the evil dry foods, switch to wet food and thre is no way you need that high dose of 3units am and pm.
I'd skip the shot tonite and see where you are at the next shot time.
The only reason you did not have a problem with that high starting dose was the bad dry food.
How's Rosy acting?
The next time you are not sure about a pre shot BG number, do NOT feed, OK? It's OK to delay your shot time but don't give food because the BG number will rise and you may think it's safe to shoot after the delay because the next number was higher.... wrong. The food caused the number to rise and as soon as that food wears off, the number will drop again so you may be in trouble if you did shoot.
Just remember, if you are not sure about giving a shot, hold back food until you decide.
Today, because you fed, your next numbers will be food influenced....
Let's see where Rosy is at her next ps test.
tortie58 said:
Well tortie,
you are see the results of the food change.... you take away all the evil dry foods, switch to wet food and thre is no way you need that high dose of 3units am and pm.
I'd skip the shot tonite and see where you are at the next shot time.
The only reason you did not have a problem with that high starting dose was the bad dry food.
How's Rosy acting?
The next time you are not sure about a pre shot BG number, do NOT feed, OK? It's OK to delay your shot time but don't give food because the BG number will rise and you may think it's safe to shoot after the delay because the next number was higher.... wrong. The food caused the number to rise and as soon as that food wears off, the number will drop again so you may be in trouble if you did shoot.
Just remember, if you are not sure about giving a shot, hold back food until you decide.
Today, because you fed, your next numbers will be food influenced....
Let's see where Rosy is at her next ps test.
tortie58
Very Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
Thanks for all the replies.
I am using the Lantus Pen since Dec with gradual increment of dosage over the mths. My current dosage is BID 3 units (should be 0.3ml if taken in syringe ? I am not sure because it's a 3 units from the fixed measurement fron Pen)
Rosy caught me off guard with that sudden drop of BG. This is a very good figure since she has been always on a very high figure.
I tested her at 2 hr before the am shoot & the figure was 86.4 so I feed her. I'll test her now which is an hour after food. Her shot is due now. Will update my reading.
Thanks for all the replies.
I am using the Lantus Pen since Dec with gradual increment of dosage over the mths. My current dosage is BID 3 units (should be 0.3ml if taken in syringe ? I am not sure because it's a 3 units from the fixed measurement fron Pen)
Rosy caught me off guard with that sudden drop of BG. This is a very good figure since she has been always on a very high figure.
I tested her at 2 hr before the am shoot & the figure was 86.4 so I feed her. I'll test her now which is an hour after food. Her shot is due now. Will update my reading.
MelanieAndRacci
Very Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
The reason it went sso high is because of the food partially. You don't know her true reading. I would not give a full dose!
Melanie & Racci
The reason it went sso high is because of the food partially. You don't know her true reading. I would not give a full dose!
Melanie & Racci
Re: Should I shoot?
It's recommended to not shoot from the pen. Most of us use U100 syringes so you can fine tune your dosing. The pens will only shoot in 1.0u increments. The dosing protocols for Lantus recommend dose changes be done in 0.25u increments. Otherwise, it is very easy to give your cat too much insulin.
There is not enough information on your spreadsheet for me to comfortably suggest that you shoot. Since Lantus dosing is based on the lowest point in the cycle, it's helpful to get at minimum one test during the AM and PM cycles in addition to your pre-shot tests.
It's recommended to not shoot from the pen. Most of us use U100 syringes so you can fine tune your dosing. The pens will only shoot in 1.0u increments. The dosing protocols for Lantus recommend dose changes be done in 0.25u increments. Otherwise, it is very easy to give your cat too much insulin.
There is not enough information on your spreadsheet for me to comfortably suggest that you shoot. Since Lantus dosing is based on the lowest point in the cycle, it's helpful to get at minimum one test during the AM and PM cycles in addition to your pre-shot tests.
tortie58
Very Active Member
Re: Lantus uaer. Should I shoot?
I've revised my SS. Not much help from my current vet since he's not supportive on home testing and asked me to use direct from the pen. Anyway, I figured out almost everything from all your help & info here.
So happy that my Rosy is feeling better & not in constant need for food & drink. I'll give her the shot now & will do more test later.
My girl feel so so good that she had fight against the Sub-q !
I've revised my SS. Not much help from my current vet since he's not supportive on home testing and asked me to use direct from the pen. Anyway, I figured out almost everything from all your help & info here.
So happy that my Rosy is feeling better & not in constant need for food & drink. I'll give her the shot now & will do more test later.
My girl feel so so good that she had fight against the Sub-q !
MelanieAndRacci
Very Active Member
Catann,
That's wonderful news!
Tortie, are you there? Please do as Catann said and test tonight if you gave that shot. I hope you didn;t. Rosie could go too low anywhere from 3 to 7 or 8 hours from now. Did you copy the hypo info?
Melanie & Racci
That's wonderful news!
Tortie, are you there? Please do as Catann said and test tonight if you gave that shot. I hope you didn;t. Rosie could go too low anywhere from 3 to 7 or 8 hours from now. Did you copy the hypo info?
Melanie & Racci
tortie58
Very Active Member
MelanieAndRacci said:
I shot her and now my anxiety begin! She is in pretty good shape & sleeping now. I'll do more test today. This is morning time in HK here. Will update whenever I get those numbers every 2 3 hrs.. I did copy the hypo info.
Do I need to move my post over to the Lantus group?
tortie
MelanieAndRacci
Very Active Member
You will get help in the tight regulation section of the Lantus group if you need help and no one is here. At this point, anyone experienced can help you because it will not be a dosing question. Rosey may go too low though (under 50) If you see her heading that way, let us know.
I will be around for a while yet but I will be going to take care of Racci now. She gets her shot in less than an hour so I have to go get her stuff ready for testing and all her meds & dinner. I'll be back afterwards though. I'll be awake for a few hours yet and around for a while once I'm done with Racci.
Melanie & Racci
I will be around for a while yet but I will be going to take care of Racci now. She gets her shot in less than an hour so I have to go get her stuff ready for testing and all her meds & dinner. I'll be back afterwards though. I'll be awake for a few hours yet and around for a while once I'm done with Racci.
Melanie & Racci
squeem3
Very Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
If you use an insulin syringe with the pen, which everyone here does, you measure 0.03 ml not 0.3 ml (which would be 30 units).
Can you buy 3/10 cc (aka 30 unit) insulin syringes in HK? The markings on the side of the insulin syringe look like this:
It's preferable to use the half unit marked insulin syringes (scale on left side of picture) but you can certainly use the whole unit marked ones if that is all you can get.
tortie58 said:
If you use an insulin syringe with the pen, which everyone here does, you measure 0.03 ml not 0.3 ml (which would be 30 units).
Can you buy 3/10 cc (aka 30 unit) insulin syringes in HK? The markings on the side of the insulin syringe look like this:
It's preferable to use the half unit marked insulin syringes (scale on left side of picture) but you can certainly use the whole unit marked ones if that is all you can get.
tortie58
Very Active Member
Re: Should I shoot?
I can get the syringe in HK pharmacy but I dont know the 3units I am using from the Pen 3 is equavalent to how many units on the syringe.
squeem3 said:tortie58 said:
If you use an insulin syringe with the pen, which everyone here does, you measure 0.03 ml not 0.3 ml (which would be 30 units).
Can you buy 3/10 cc (aka 30 unit) insulin syringes in HK? The markings on the side of the insulin syringe look like this:
It's preferable to use the half unit marked insulin syringes (scale on left side of picture) but you can certainly use the whole unit marked ones if that is all you can get.
I can get the syringe in HK pharmacy but I dont know the 3units I am using from the Pen 3 is equavalent to how many units on the syringe.
MommaOfMuse
Very Active Member
3 units is 3 units it doesn't matter if it is from the syringes or from the pen, it is still 3 units. When speaking of a medical dose measurement, a unit is a form of measure. It is no different that measuring an inch on a tape measure or a yard stick...and inch is still an inch, thus a unit is still a unit...Hopefully that makes sense, not enough coffee yet this morning. 
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
Brian
Member
Lantus is a U100 insulin, make sure you get U100 syringes and then your 3 units from the pen matches 3 units from the syringe. They'll be clearly labelled "U100".
If you use the wrong syringe your measured unit isn't a unit of insulin (U40 vs U100), kinda like a gallon isn't always a gallon (if you are an American talking to an Englishman)
. Similarily, if you use a large enough coffee mug to measure one cup of coffee you can get 2 cups of coffee without spilling a drop
.
MommaOfMuse said:3 units is 3 units it doesn't matter if it is from the syringes or from the pen, it is still 3 units. When speaking of a medical dose measurement, a unit is a form of measure. It is no different that measuring an inch on a tape measure or a yard stick...and inch is still an inch, thus a unit is still a unit...Hopefully that makes sense, not enough coffee yet this morning.
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
If you use the wrong syringe your measured unit isn't a unit of insulin (U40 vs U100), kinda like a gallon isn't always a gallon (if you are an American talking to an Englishman)
. Similarily, if you use a large enough coffee mug to measure one cup of coffee you can get 2 cups of coffee without spilling a drop.
tortie58
Very Active Member
MommaOfMuse said:3 units is 3 units it doesn't matter if it is from the syringes or from the pen, it is still 3 units. When speaking of a medical dose measurement, a unit is a form of measure. It is no different that measuring an inch on a tape measure or a yard stick...and inch is still an inch, thus a unit is still a unit...Hopefully that makes sense, not enough coffee yet this morning.
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
Thankyou so so much! That clears my confusion for these wks!!
Julia & Bandit (GA)
Very Active Member
On a U-100 syringe with half unit markings (like the one on the left with the picture), The "5" is 5 units, so 3u would be the 3rd little line on the right side. However, with this low number and the diet change you'll probably need to reduce the dose--possibly down to 1u or 1.5u.
MelanieAndRacci
Very Active Member
Hi Tortie,
Rosey's numbers look good. She may have gone very low at the +6 time though. You want to be careful about that. How does she feel today?
Melanie & Racci
Rosey's numbers look good. She may have gone very low at the +6 time though. You want to be careful about that. How does she feel today?
Melanie & Racci
tortie58
Very Active Member
Julia & Bandit said:
Thankyou! That clarify my confusion on my dosage! I planned to keep my dosage & testing for a couple more days before making a decrease on the Lantus.
If the dosage is decreased, will the bg shoot up again?
cat(2)_steamMelanieAndRacci said:
Hi MelanieAndRacci, I have a +5 in my spread sheet. I did the testing, then feed her. Im more worried about the +5 after the 2nd shot which fall during the night time when she 'll be w/o food.
I'm sure she felt good! She had "disapproved" on my Sub-q injection & is more active. She even groomed herself & roll on the floor. That scared the **** out of me, I thought she's having a hypo! :lol: I haven't seen her grooming herself for weeks!
I really appreciate all the help & guideline from all our forum friends!
squeem3
Very Active Member
I took the above picture of the 30 unit syringe markings and added in each unit number up to 5. Few cats need more than 5 unts of insulin a day and you get the idea of what each line after 5 units is anyways :smile: It's too big to post here so click here to view the picture.
If you can only get 1/2 cc (50 unit) insulin syringes, the markings are the same as the whole unit marked 3/10 cc ones (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc):
Don't use the 1 cc (100 unit) insulin syringes. The markings on those are for every 2 units (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, etc) You won't be to accurately measure odd numbered units and not be able at all to measure half units.
If you can only get 1/2 cc (50 unit) insulin syringes, the markings are the same as the whole unit marked 3/10 cc ones (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc):
Don't use the 1 cc (100 unit) insulin syringes. The markings on those are for every 2 units (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, etc) You won't be to accurately measure odd numbered units and not be able at all to measure half units.
MelanieAndRacci
Very Active Member
Hi Tortie,
She's starting to get some nice consistent lower numbers now. 3 units is a large dose. You might want to try lowering her nighttime dose to 2.5u to play it safe. She will probably have crazy numbers again for a few days but don't worry and don't change it for 3 days. Her shelf has to adjust before you can decide if it's a good dose or not.
Racci gave me a good scare with a hypo just a little bit ago. I have to test again. ttyl
Melanie
She's starting to get some nice consistent lower numbers now. 3 units is a large dose. You might want to try lowering her nighttime dose to 2.5u to play it safe. She will probably have crazy numbers again for a few days but don't worry and don't change it for 3 days. Her shelf has to adjust before you can decide if it's a good dose or not.
Racci gave me a good scare with a hypo just a little bit ago. I have to test again. ttyl
Melanie
tortie58
Very Active Member
MelanieAndRacci said:
Thankyou Melaine! I hope Racci's fine.
This morning Rosy's AMPS is a BLACK 525 again. I cannot figure out why there is this surge. She didnt have any food for 12 hrs before the test. I kept the 3u shot
Our furry babies are really driving us nuts! I think I am becoming a crazy cat lady who got stuck with my 21cats at home. I am thinking about staying up one night doing a test on the PM+6 reading.
I dare not let my friends know I am so serious about all this because they'd never understand. :mrgreen:
Catannc
Active Member
You might want to read up on something called Somogyi Effect, it might explain your 525...can anyone with a little experience weigh in on this? I would CALL YOUR VET and give him your recent test data and see if he wants to adjust the dosage. In any case I would NOT recommend you increase insulin dosage because of this 525, if anything you might want to try a lower dose for a few days as others are recommending.
"Somogyi Effect (Rebound)
When a diabetic experiences hypoglycemia, the body tries to compensate. While it generally doesn't have to, the liver is capable of producing glucose. The "signal" is glucagon, produced in the body in response to low blood sugar. Some vets treat hypoglycemia by injecting glucagon, which will keep the liver producing glucose for quite a while. The length of time it keeps putting out glucose is probably tied to the severity and/or duration of the hypoglycemia (or the size of the glucagon injection), but it can last 72 hours. The liver will generally kick in when BG levels get below 60, but in some it may happen at a higher level.
True Somogyi effect is quite rare in cats. Since they are obligate carnivores, their liver enzymes and glucose production ares different than that of humans and dogs.
Any hypoglycemic episode, whether or not you observed it, may be followed by some degree of rebound for some unknown length of time. It will show up as BG spikes happening before the insulin tails off, if you're doing blood tests. If you're using dipsticks, you'll see a high reading at a time when you're not even supposed to see traces. The spikes are almost as bad for the cat's long term health as sustained high BG levels, so they should be stopped. Besides the other things damaged by high blood glucose, the poor old liver gets extra stress, and the long-suffering kidneys are thrown into overdrive again.
Unfortunately, the instinct is to increase insulin when we see high BG levels. If they are caused by rebound, the answer is to decrease insulin.
So how do you know whether to give more insulin or less? First you decide whether or not there is any possibility that hypoglycemia is occurring -- if the cat is unregulated and never has a BG reading below 200, you're probably not seeing rebound.
If hypoglycemia is an unconfirmed possibility, simply decrease the insulin by 20% for three days and see if the spikes disappear. Since food causes blood glucose to rise, it's impossible to differentiate a Somogyi spike from a post-peak food spike -- another argument in favor of restricted feeding."
"Somogyi Effect (Rebound)
When a diabetic experiences hypoglycemia, the body tries to compensate. While it generally doesn't have to, the liver is capable of producing glucose. The "signal" is glucagon, produced in the body in response to low blood sugar. Some vets treat hypoglycemia by injecting glucagon, which will keep the liver producing glucose for quite a while. The length of time it keeps putting out glucose is probably tied to the severity and/or duration of the hypoglycemia (or the size of the glucagon injection), but it can last 72 hours. The liver will generally kick in when BG levels get below 60, but in some it may happen at a higher level.
True Somogyi effect is quite rare in cats. Since they are obligate carnivores, their liver enzymes and glucose production ares different than that of humans and dogs.
Any hypoglycemic episode, whether or not you observed it, may be followed by some degree of rebound for some unknown length of time. It will show up as BG spikes happening before the insulin tails off, if you're doing blood tests. If you're using dipsticks, you'll see a high reading at a time when you're not even supposed to see traces. The spikes are almost as bad for the cat's long term health as sustained high BG levels, so they should be stopped. Besides the other things damaged by high blood glucose, the poor old liver gets extra stress, and the long-suffering kidneys are thrown into overdrive again.
Unfortunately, the instinct is to increase insulin when we see high BG levels. If they are caused by rebound, the answer is to decrease insulin.
So how do you know whether to give more insulin or less? First you decide whether or not there is any possibility that hypoglycemia is occurring -- if the cat is unregulated and never has a BG reading below 200, you're probably not seeing rebound.
If hypoglycemia is an unconfirmed possibility, simply decrease the insulin by 20% for three days and see if the spikes disappear. Since food causes blood glucose to rise, it's impossible to differentiate a Somogyi spike from a post-peak food spike -- another argument in favor of restricted feeding."
tortie58
Very Active Member
Catannc said:
Since I did not test Rosy after the PM shot which falls during the night, I might have missed a hypo. So I got to do a +6 or 7 test to see how's her, right? Or should I go ahead with a decrease?
I gave her Sub-q at +9 and tested her at +11 which got a lower reading than +6 where her nadir was. Can it be the water input which brought down her bg?
kim and simon
Active Member
We are trying to find someone more experienced (I have only been using Lantus for 2 months!) The safest thing is to stall until we find some help! Sorry about this--it's saturday and I don't see many people online.
Ann & Tess GA
Very Active Member
HI, just saw this and need a little time to catch up. What is your current status?
Sandy and Black Kitty
Very Active Member
Hi there Tortie 
I saw Catanncs request in Lantus Land (the Lantus ISG) for eyes over here. . .
3u is a substantial dose. it may be too high. What was your kittys BG at diagnosis?
Why the sub-q's? are there other health issues?
Please do not shoot blind (no test). Although Lantus dosing is based primarily on nadir, it is important to get a PS before shooting.
Is your kitty eating exclusively wet low carb?
Without being familiar with your situation, just looking at your ss, I recommend some more tests to see what is going on.
I also strongly recommend you read about the various protocols for Lantus.
Pop over to the Lantus TR forum and take a look at the informational posts at the top of the board - and ask questions.
There is a ton of tribal knowledge there
I saw Catanncs request in Lantus Land (the Lantus ISG) for eyes over here. . .
Yes, sub-q fluids can indeed bring down BGs as they dilute the blood.tortie58 said:
3u is a substantial dose. it may be too high. What was your kittys BG at diagnosis?
Why the sub-q's? are there other health issues?
That is an excellent idea - not only a +6, other spot checks will paint a better picture. Also, do not feed after +10 as it may artificially inflate the PS number.tortie58 said:
Please do not shoot blind (no test). Although Lantus dosing is based primarily on nadir, it is important to get a PS before shooting.
Is your kitty eating exclusively wet low carb?
Without being familiar with your situation, just looking at your ss, I recommend some more tests to see what is going on.
I also strongly recommend you read about the various protocols for Lantus.
Pop over to the Lantus TR forum and take a look at the informational posts at the top of the board - and ask questions.
There is a ton of tribal knowledge there
tortie58
Very Active Member
Yes, sub-q fluids can indeed bring down BGs as they dilute the blood.]Hi there Tortie ~O) I saw Catanncs request in Lantus Land (the Lantus ISG) for eyes over here. . . [quote="tortie58 said:
3u is a substantial dose. it may be too high. What was your kittys BG at diagnosis?
Why the sub-q's? are there other health issues?
That is an excellent idea - not only a +6, other spot checks will paint a better picture. Also, do not feed after +10 as it may artificially inflate the PS number.tortie58 said:
Please do not shoot blind (no test). Although Lantus dosing is based primarily on nadir, it is important to get a PS before shooting.
Is your kitty eating exclusively wet low carb?
Without being familiar with your situation, just looking at your ss, I recommend some more tests to see what is going on.
I also strongly recommend you read about the various protocols for Lantus.
Pop over to the Lantus TR forum and take a look at the informational posts at the top of the board - and ask questions.
There is a ton of tribal knowledge there
[/quote]Hi Sandy and Black Kitty! Thankyou so much fo
Sandy and Black Kitty
Very Active Member
So, did you shoot 3u 2 hours ago?tortie58 said:
What is your geographic location?
tortie58
Very Active Member
tortie58 said:Yes, sub-q fluids can indeed bring down BGs as they dilute the blood.]Hi there Tortie ~O) I saw Catanncs request in Lantus Land (the Lantus ISG) for eyes over here. . . [quote="tortie58 said:
3u is a substantial dose. it may be too high. What was your kittys BG at diagnosis?
Why the sub-q's? are there other health issues?That is an excellent idea - not only a +6, other spot checks will paint a better picture. Also, do not feed after +10 as it may artificially inflate the PS number.tortie58 said:
Please do not shoot blind (no test). Although Lantus dosing is based primarily on nadir, it is important to get a PS before shooting.
Is your kitty eating exclusively wet low carb?
Without being familiar with your situation, just looking at your ss, I recommend some more tests to see what is going on.
I also strongly recommend you read about the various protocols for Lantus.
Pop over to the Lantus TR forum and take a look at the informational posts at the top of the board - and ask questions.
There is a ton of tribal knowledge there
Hi Sandy and Black Kitty! Thankyou so much fo[/quote]
Thankyou so much for your reply!
Rosy's bg at the end of Dec was around 400. My vet asked me to inject 1u once a day. He is not supportive of home testing. I took Rosy to have her test every mth & the increment went from 1u SID to 1u BID to 1u am 2u pm to 2uBID to the current.
The Sub-q is because I'm afraid she will have ketone with that high figure. She was drinking a lot & peeing a lot a wk ago.
I have switched her over from a free feeding on dry to a restricted 3 canned meal a day. No food was given during the night. I planned to stay up tonight to do some more test on her. If it is a rebound, will I be facing a possible hypo?
I didn't sleep these few nights trying to read all the info from here. Wish I can learn faster!
I'm also popping over from lantus ISG. Do you have some updated test numbers for us? Usually boiled chicken is very low carb and she may need some higher carb food depending on her numbers.
Could you please test and post?
Most cats "bounce" when they first start out. We use that term to keep it from being confused with a chronic rebound (Somogyi) which has not been documented in cats. It takes some monitoring during the cycle in order for us to see if she is going low and bouncing back up from the liver releasing counterregulatory hormones and glycogen into the blood. If you are home today and able to get tests every couple of hours, it would give us an idea of what she may be doing.
Is that possible?
Could you please test and post?
Most cats "bounce" when they first start out. We use that term to keep it from being confused with a chronic rebound (Somogyi) which has not been documented in cats. It takes some monitoring during the cycle in order for us to see if she is going low and bouncing back up from the liver releasing counterregulatory hormones and glycogen into the blood. If you are home today and able to get tests every couple of hours, it would give us an idea of what she may be doing.
Is that possible?
tortie58
Very Active Member
Marjorie and Gracie said:
Thankyou so much! You guys are wonderful! I'm in tears now...
Yes I'll stay awake for her tonight. Now is almost +3, I'll do some more test every 3 hrs ( if she let me!)& post on the SS
If it is a bounce, is she in danger? Do I have to treat her with food like a hypo?
Catannc
Active Member
Hey tortie,
Just keep testing, you know what to do if you start seeing low numbers.
Click on this link and start a new thread it will be where people can better help you, being that you are in Hong Kong I just wanted to say if you have another language other than english you should mention that. Someone may be able to help you better that way.
viewforum.php?f=9
On your thread tell them you changed diet very recently from dry to wet, tell them about that 86 PMPS +10 you had and that the next day the AMPS 264 was after you fed at +10 PMPS, and you gave her 3 units. Tell them your black value for today and that you gave her 3 units and you are now 3 hours post shot. Tell them about sub-q. This thread has gotten very long and that way someone will be able to better see what is going on.
Good luck to you!
Cathy
Just keep testing, you know what to do if you start seeing low numbers.
Click on this link and start a new thread it will be where people can better help you, being that you are in Hong Kong I just wanted to say if you have another language other than english you should mention that. Someone may be able to help you better that way.
viewforum.php?f=9
On your thread tell them you changed diet very recently from dry to wet, tell them about that 86 PMPS +10 you had and that the next day the AMPS 264 was after you fed at +10 PMPS, and you gave her 3 units. Tell them your black value for today and that you gave her 3 units and you are now 3 hours post shot. Tell them about sub-q. This thread has gotten very long and that way someone will be able to better see what is going on.
Good luck to you!
Cathy
Sandy and Black Kitty
Very Active Member
Rosy may be recovering from a bounce this cycle, so monitor closely. It may clarify if you need to adjust the dose.
Try not to worry. Please read DON'T PANIC! or HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS for guidance.
Here is an example of a typical Lantus curve, for your reference:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
In general you should get a +1 and +2 to give you an idea of how a cycle will go. If the +1 is not higher than PS, or if +2 is much lower than PS, that means “pay attention” over the next few hours. Those tests will also help you become data ready an assist with making dose decisions.
Try not to worry. Please read DON'T PANIC! or HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS for guidance.
Here is an example of a typical Lantus curve, for your reference:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
In general you should get a +1 and +2 to give you an idea of how a cycle will go. If the +1 is not higher than PS, or if +2 is much lower than PS, that means “pay attention” over the next few hours. Those tests will also help you become data ready an assist with making dose decisions.
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