Lantus for Podo

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Seattlebrian

Seattlebrian

Member Since 2010
Here is a link to my other thread viewtopic.php?f=28&t=17614.

I just got a prescription from my vet for Lantus. He seemed to be using fairly old information for diabetes and had never heard of Lantus. But once he looked it up, he wrote me a prescription for it. Now he said I can just pick it up at any pharmacy, is it the exact same bottles that they give to people? I wouldn't expect a normal pharmacy to be carrying animal prescription meds.

She is on 3U of vetsulin now, what should I start her on with the Lantus? 1U, 2U? And I figure I should do full 2 hour testing curves the first couple shots. I'd like to run out and get her prescription filled tomorrow, and start her on the new drug Saturday when hopefully I won't be too distracted and can remember to test ever 2 hours and watch her closely.
 
I can answer part of your question. Yes, it is the same lantus that people use. I pick mine up at Walmart-it seems to be the cheapest in my town. Others will be by soon to talk about dosage-I am too new for that. Good luck!
 
Hi there

welcome to Lantus Land!

yes the insulin is the same as what humans gets.
Is your prescription for a 10ml vial or pen?
There is a good option of purchasing the 5 pack 3ml vials which in the long run is a better value than one single pen/vial.
You may want to check with your local pharmacy - a lot of people here order it online too.

Have a look through our "starred" stickies up above, read up on Lantus and how to use, store, data collection so you're ready to shoot lower numbers, all those stickies are very handy.

And of course you are very welcomed to post questions. Try to keep everything in one thread daily in this forum.

Glad to see you have spreadsheet set up. One question, are you around evenings to do spotchecks?
We are testing forum and do ask for a minimum one bedtime check each nite.
If that's not possible - weekends and days off are good days to fill up your spreadsheet with data.

I also see you are slowly weening in wet food, good to see that.

Check back often for feedback on your starting dose, I see on spreadsheet you are getting trace ketones, stay on top of that by checking daily....

and again, welcome to LL!
 
Welcome to LL. You can read all the stickies and start to gather information. Lots to gather so it will take time. Post often, 1 condo (per cat) per day. date, name, number. Someone will be along to review the ss and give their thoughts on dosing. We usually start at 1u. If you can get your vet to change the prescription to cartridges of pens it will be less costly. A vial will last roughly 28 days. If at the end of 28 days it is toast, you need to buy another. The pens/cartridges don't start to expire until you start using them so you have roughly 5 months worth of lantus. More economical in the long run. Some pharmacies will sell one pen or cartridge. Costco, is one that sometimes sells also hospitals or university hospitals will often sell one.

Post often, visit condos, ask questions. You are in good hands here. Lots of experience and support. Good luck with the sugar dance.

Also, you can find information in the stickies on setting up a profile. It helps to know your location and a brief history of Podo. I gather you are in the Seattle area, there are members there. PATIENCE, BREATHE. That helps.
 
Welcome Brian!

You've gotten some good information already. There is a ton of information in the starred notes at the top of the Board. Please make sure to review the posts on how to handle Lantus (i.e., don't shake, rattle, or roll -- it's a fragile insulin) and on the Tight Regulation Protocols. The New to Lantus note contains tons of information -- how to do a curve, our slang dictionary, what you need for a hypo toolkit, etc.

I want to really encourage you to re-think the Blue Buffalo food. It contains products like potatoes, potato starch, sweet potatoes, peas, carrots, and blueberries, among other things. Cats are carnivores. They don't eat any of these things. More importantly, though, dry food has an unpredictable effect on blood glucose (BG). It typically raises numbers and it takes a long time for numbers to come back down. If you can try to transition Podo to a canned food diet, I think you will be much happier with the results.

Did your vet run any labs when Podo was first diagnosed or thereafter? If Podo was experiencing kidney problems, the blood work reflecting a kidney issue would tell you that. In addition, if ketones were present at the time that Podo was diagnosed with diabetes, you need to know that. Using a ketostix to test for ketones is essential. It wasn't clear from your post in Health whether you actually saw a color change on the strip. It is hard to tell. Just make sure you are comparing to the color chart after 15 seconds. If you need a different sort of comparison, you can test yourself. Whether Podo has ketones will help us to guide you with regard to starting dose of Lantus.

You are doing a great job with getting tests. With Lantus, you will also need to test during the PM cycle. Lantus is very different than Vetsulin. Dosing decisions are made based on the lowest point of the cycle (the nadir) and not on the pre-shot value. As a result, you want to try to get at least one test in during the evening.

In Health, you asked about syringes. Lantus dose changes are typically made in 0.25u increments. If you can stop by a Walmart, their Relion brand U100 syringe is available in half-unit measurements. I order my syringes from Hocks (see the icon at the top of the board).
 
welcome to Lantus Land, Brian and Podo!

What do you think about a starting dose of 1.5 units? It looks like Podo started getting better numbers when you reduced to 1.5 units of Vetsulin, so that seems like a reasonable starting place. She will probably end up needing a bit more than that, but it's better to start a little low and work up from there. Keep checking for ketones, though. If the ketones continue, then we'll want to increase the dose faster than we usually do.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
I want to really encourage you to re-think the Blue Buffalo food. It contains products like potatoes, potato starch, sweet potatoes, peas, carrots, and blueberries, among other things. Cats are carnivores. They don't eat any of these things. More importantly, though, dry food has an unpredictable effect on blood glucose (BG). It typically raises numbers and it takes a long time for numbers to come back down. If you can try to transition Podo to a canned food diet, I think you will be much happier with the results.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you are thinking about the normal Blue Buffalo dry food. Their "wilderness" line is low carb. They wouldn't give me numbers but told me it is a little less than 7% of calories from carbs. But, I've got her off the dry food all together now. And off the Nutro. She is only eating the Sophisticat for the last couple days. And only the pate flavors that are <5% from the food charts.


She had very high keytones when she was diagnosed, so the trace amounts now are a big improvement. I don't remember the exact number, but it was on the high end of the color chart and her kidneys were rock hard. Now her kidneys are just fine. She has been on regular vetsulin (2-3U BID), since April. So, her body has mostly recovered. Now that she is more under control, I wanted a more gentle insulin to try and get her numbers level, and hopefully down to good levels consistently.

I can probably take a test after the evening shot. I usually gave her the shots at ~10am/pm. But, I can probably move that up to 8am/pm. Then get a +4 test in. She goes to sleep before I do, so I'd hate to have to wake her up just to take a test.

A 28 day expiration period does not sound right. A 10mL bottle of 100-U insulin if it expired in 28 days. You would need to dose out 36U a day to use it up before it expires.
 
You have to remember Lantus is intended for humans who use much larger doses. The mfg. specs call for only using Lantus vials for 28 days. Some of us have used cartridges longer, but there is no guarantee how long it will remain vialble after the expiration date. This is why we use the 3ml. cartridges.
 
Hi Welcome to LL!

I get my needles at the vets and Lantus at Walmart. My vet said she couldn't beat that price :smile: Disposing of the needles is another story. The Vet won't take them, I heard the Fire Dept, I took in
two bottles of needles and he looked at me and said ok just this time....really? He said to try the hospital...so for now I just collect them in my old spaghetti jars :lol: :lol:

heidi and doodles >"<
 
Hi Brian - Welcome!

From what I understand (I'm still working on my last vial and haven't gotten my prescription for cartridges yet), you use the cartridges/pens just like the vial - measuring with a syringe. So, if you get a syringe with 1/2 unit markings, you can measure whatever dose you want.
 
I can probably take a test after the evening shot. I usually gave her the shots at ~10am/pm. But, I can probably move that up to 8am/pm. Then get a +4 test in. She goes to sleep before I do, so I'd hate to have to wake her up just to take a test
Click to expand...

hi Brian

I'm hoping one of our experienced members can swing by to help you with this question and a few of your other ones.
I do know they often suggest moving up your shot time in 15 minute increments over a few cycles, but I'm not too clear on that.


Are you planning to pick up the lantus today? For tonight's PMPS?

Check back if you can, its a little early still, but others will be along.
 
Brian!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Here you are!!! Congratulations on a job well done...I am so happy that you and your vet agreed to the switch to Lantus! I am doubly happy that you are here on the board! WELCOME BRIAN AND PODO!!!
We are like a big family here...with our "condos" each day. We go and visit each other and post a little hello and you are welcome to stop by Shadow's condo anytime!!

There are experienced people here (I see that Libby has stopped by already with a suggestion for a starting dose) and if you have any questions, please ask! :mrgreen: Each day, we start a new condo with a link to the previous day's condo so that people can click on the link and see what transpired the day before. We also click on the SS links frequently too so it's great that you are all linked up with that and ready to go!! If you go to some other condos today when you have time, you will see how we show the AMPS in the heading with the kitty's name in the morning for our first post along with the link to the day before's. It's less chaotic that way. There are many kitties here in Lantus Land and you might have to scroll down awhile to find your own post. When you add another post, it bumps it up to the top of the list again.

Do a ketone test with a strip from you own urine and compare the colors if you can. When a kitty is getting higher numbers, we test for ketones on a daily basis because they can aear very suddenly.

How is Podo liking the Sophistacat? good job in changing the food. That is an important step and while it doesn't bring a kitty into remission right away, it is a vital step in leading to good regulation at the very least. Make sure you do have some cans of HC food on hand...I use the Friskies with gravy...turkey and gravy I think I have. It might be necessary to feed gravy alone if her numbers go low. Read about the hypo--not to alarm you, but just to prepare you. It is very manageable when they get low numbers--I will tell you now. POST the number immediately and ask for help. If you just stay calm and do as people tell you, you will get used to it. But, that's for later...just do pick up some cans of food with gravy to keep in a separate place so you don't mix it up with her regular HC food...Know what I mean?

You are welcome to click on the links in anyone's signature and look over their kitty's SS. My Shadow, for instance, had very high numbers on the Vetsulin. I used that for 6 weeks before switching to Lev which is a longer duration insulin similar to Lantus. You will see the testing times....and the times I tested during the night. I shoot at 7:45 pm/am. You could also click on my Raja's SS too....she started on Vetsulin with her brother on Aug 5th and while her numbers were never as high as Shadow's, she got a smaller amount of insulin the whole time she was on it. She went OTJ on Dec 5th!!! Yay!! So I test her randomly now and no longer give her insulin!!! They both had been fed dry food for 12 years!! A previous vet told me that it kept their teeth clean! WRONG!! I switched them both to canned food and they no longer get any dry at all!!

I will tell you another trick....in Petsmart, they have a little bag of freeze-dried chicken called "Prime Taste Treats" with a dog on the front (so don't show Podo the dog picture! LOL) It is in the doggie treat section. One ingredient..chicken. I shave it over my kitties' food and they LOVE it! It is a little dry to give them alone, but if you shave it on top of their food, they will really like the treat. There is also another brand that is softer freeze-dried chicken call Prime Bites and Halo also has the chicken....a treat is a good way to get them to accept the ear tests. (altho I never did need to give my two any during the testing, but some people make it a ritual with the ear prick and the treats)

I am so happy that you are here Brian!! You are on the right path now....welcome again!!! :mrgreen:
 
I actually was looking at the Blue Buffalo Wilderness line of food. The dry contained all of those ingredients. It's not surprising. Even some of the commercially available raw foods contain vegetable matter that are carb heavy.

You might find this link about Lantus/Lev more useful and current. It's the note at the top of the board regarding Lantus use and storage. The starred, permanent notes at the top of the Board contain a great deal of information and will, in most cases, answer a great many questions.

The pens do not dispense insulin in less than 1.0u quantity. It's also questionable how accurate they are with the small doses most cats need. You will find getting syringes marked in half unit increments to be much more accurate and helpful. As Ann indicated, the manufacturer indicates that Lantus not be used beyond its 28 day lifespan once a container is opened. With the 10 ml vials, this involves considerable waste. That said, many people get longer than 28 days from a pen or vial. However, there is still a much greater likelihood that you will be tossing out Lantus if you opt to get the vial. The other issue is a practical one. If you drop a vial, you lose a lot of insulin. If you drop or damage a cartridge or pen, you generally have a back-up sitting in the refrigerator.
 
Pat+Raja+Shadow said:
How is Podo liking the Sophistacat? good job in changing the food. That is an important step and while it doesn't bring a kitty into remission right away, it is a vital step in leading to good regulation at the very least. Make sure you do have some cans of HC food on hand...I use the Friskies with gravy...turkey and gravy I think I have. It might be necessary to feed gravy alone if her numbers go low. Read about the hypo--not to alarm you, but just to prepare you. It is very manageable when they get low numbers--I will tell you now. POST the number immediately and ask for help. If you just stay calm and do as people tell you, you will get used to it. But, that's for later...just do pick up some cans of food with gravy to keep in a separate place so you don't mix it up with her regular HC food...Know what I mean?

...

I will tell you another trick....in Petsmart, they have a little bag of freeze-dried chicken called "Prime Taste Treats" with a dog on the front (so don't show Podo the dog picture! LOL) It is in the doggie treat section. One ingredient..chicken. I shave it over my kitties' food and they LOVE it! It is a little dry to give them alone, but if you shave it on top of their food, they will really like the treat. There is also another brand that is softer freeze-dried chicken call Prime Bites and Halo also has the chicken....a treat is a good way to get them to accept the ear tests. (altho I never did need to give my two any during the testing, but some people make it a ritual with the ear prick and the treats)
Click to expand...

So far she is loving the regular Sophisticat, I tried getting a couple cans of the 3oz supreme, but she didn't like it. She has lost 2 of her fangs (top right and bottom left), so most of the food I get her now is pate style. I've got several cans of the Nutro food I was feeding her before ready to go in case of hypo. Because of her teeth, I'm not sure the freeze-dried food treats will work. But, she gets brushed with her favorite brush after testing, or she gets her catnip sock. Both seem to be good bribes. :-D

Ugh, I thought yesterday was Thursday. So my cheap pharmacy is closed on the weekend. I'll have to pick up the prescription on monday. Walgreens and Bartell wanted like $280 for the 5x 3ml cartidges.
 
I got my Lantus at Costco Pharmacy. You don't have to be a member, but you get a little extra discount. It was $180 before tax for 5 cartridges.
 
I have ordered from Canada... http://www.canadadrugsonline.com/DrugMoreInfo5636.aspx
I think your vet has to fax in the script and then they will ship your order. (Or you have to mail the script to them which will take added time) Maybe you could get a single cartridge at Cosco (which will last you the first month) and meanwhile order the 5 pack from Canada?

Once you get the Lantus, things will be better...sigh...that is quite a difference in the Cosco price compared to Walgreens....wow (but the Canada drugs is better still!!)

Glad she is liking the low carb...that is good! And if she is happy with the treats that is good too...oh..BTW...how are her teeth? Did the vet check her mouth? Has she had a dental lately?
I"m not only asking cause I am a royal pest...but rather that we know that if a kitty has plaque build-up or teeth that need attention, their numbers can run higher due to those dental issues....I learned all about these things from the good people here on the forum.... Maybe you have seen to it since you mention the loss of the two fangs...if so, then nevermind... :mrgreen:
 
Hi Brian & Podo and Welcome to Lantus Land. You've received lots of good advice, so I'll just stick to "Welcome". This board is terrific and you will get great advice and support from the people here.

Ella & Stu
 
Hi Brian and Podo. I just wanted to say hi and welcome to the Board, This is a great bunch of supportive people. No wonder My kitty Tori and I have been hanging around for the last 5 years.
 
Costco, Sam's Club and the discount pharmacies may be a better bet. I found the Walgreens near me to have the highest price around for Lantus. One of the members here found an incredible price at Rite Aid if you join their pharmacy discount plan. I buy my Lantus at a university medical center pharmacy. They will sell individual pens because of the volume they do with insulin in the hospital (they have to break up the boxes for use in the hospital) and their prices were the lowest in my area.
 
I found the lantus at Safeway for $202, now I can't find needles with the .5U markings. But, there is a pet pharmacy near me that should have them, and might have the lanus cheaper too. :mrgreen: But, they are closed weekends. ohmygod_smile
 
The half unit needles are hard to find. Many of us order from Hocks, strips and lancet too. My orders usually get here in 5 or 6 days by USPS. You can also get regular U100 syringes in packets of 10 from the pharmacy to hold you over. What dose are you going to shoot?
 
Just FYI, if there is Walmart near you, they should carry Relion syringes with 1/2 unit markings... and they are cheap too... I didn't see if anyone mentioned this already.
 
I get the Reli-On syringes at Walmart....they are 3/10m; 29 gauge 12.7mm syringes. About $12.
You could shop around a bit to find the Lanus pens. Maybe order them from Canada if your vet can fax the prescription in. Perhaps you will find it reasonably priced at Cosco or elsewhere after the weekend.
That green and blue yesterday looked nice...no doubt, the higher number is a bounce after the lower numbers. How is Podo doing? Eating well?
 
Since she has gotten back up to normal weight, she is acting like her old self all the time. I haven't seen any symptoms for at least a month and a half.
 
I'm using 29 gauge right now, and she never puts up a fuss. Worst trouble I have is keeping her from turning around to sniff at the end of the needle and poke herself in the nose.
 
Tomorrow? Well, if you have everything...that's great. Now, tomorrow Brian...can you open a new condo for yourself and link this entire thread to it? this is the link: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18212

We open a new condo each day and link the previous day's condo to the first post.
You will write the header using the date and kitty's name with her AMPS, k?
You can give a summary of the prev cycle's numbers if you want and the dose that you are giving. That is helpful to the readers.
Any questions you have, you can ask in your daily condo.
It would be great if you had time, to visit other people's condo to see how it works.
Updating is great if you can do it during the day, but at least add the PMPS to the header too.
AND, if ever you have an urgent question, put it in your heading and then remove it when answered, ok?
I think that's all the housekeeping tips I have right now... :razz:

Nice job Brian! I am so happy that you are doing this. I hope that you will be too...how is Podo feeling lately?
What did you shoot this morning? Can you think of any questions now for the experienced people here?

What syringes did you buy?
SO happy to have you and Podo here.... :mrgreen: Welcome!!! :mrgreen:
 
I got some BD Ultra-Fine, 31G, 8mm, 3/10cc, w/ .5U markings. They worked fine, although I think I like the 1/2" needles better than the 8mm. And I wish lantus came in the U-40 strength. It is really hard to see only one unit in the early morning hours. I don't know how I'm going to be able to read .25U. Although if she gets down that low, I will gladly try. :-D
 
I wish you lots of good positive vibes with Lantus when you get started.
And there's tons of beans here to guide you along.

We'll see you monday!

Happy 4th!
 
:lol: I know what you mean! I bought a pair of strong, very strong reading glasses at the dollar store so I can see the syringe better an have the use of my hands...
Oh and Brian:
Seattlebrian said:
....And I wish lantus came in the U-40 strength....
Click to expand...
There you go! Wasting a perfectly good wish on something that will not happen!!! :lol: It's a very good thing that we get at least 10 wishes each day here in Lantus Land.... :lol: If you need more you can always ask and more will be dispensed to you. :lol:
(Iit is customary to begin the litany with "I wish _________(insert kitty's name) would have better numbers" but if you want to wish stuff about Lantus, that is perfectly fine....whatever you want Brian! :mrgreen:
 
Those are the same needles that I use. I think someone in Health was trying to find syringes w/ fine, longer needles and half unit markings. i don't know if they were successful.

I look like a mad scientist when I draw Tess's shots. I have a magnifying visor with an extra loupe. It helps a lot.

We'll look for you tomorrow.
 
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