Kopie tests at 64

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Carey & Kopie

Carey & Kopie

Member Since 2017
My cat Kopie was diagnosed with diabetes 4 months ago. We have slowly been increasing his Lantus dosage and he is now up to 4.5 units twice a day. His numbers have continued to stay at 200+. Today all of a sudden he tests at 64 (using ReliOn Prime). Do I give him a shot, smaller dosage or none?
 
Carey said:
My cat Kopie was diagnosed with diabetes 4 months ago. We have slowly been increasing his Lantus dosage and he is now up to 4.5 units twice a day. His numbers have continued to stay at 200+. Today all of a sudden he tests at 64 (using ReliOn Prime). Do I give him a shot, smaller dosage or none?
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If he is at 64 at preshot DO NOT GIVE A SHOT.
 
Can you stall, NOT feed, and retest in about 20 minutes? Let's see if he comes up without food. Which insulin are you using and do you have a spreadsheet? Without seeing one I would have to say don't shoot. Are you following SLGS, TR, or neither?
 
Do you have more data on what the readings have been? Regular testing...preshot and mid cycle are very important to see if a dose is safe
 
I can see your spreadsheet. That 64 looks very much out of place from the other readings. Can you do another reading...sometimes you can get a wonky number with a bad strip.
 
Have you changed anything with the diet..changed to a different food...such as changing to a low carb wet food from a dry food or anything similar?
 
Which meter are you using? Once things settle down we need to get all thus into your signature including the link to your spreadsheet so we don't keep bombarding you with questions.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Which meter are you using? Once things settle down we need to get all thus into your signature including the link to your spreadsheet so we don't keep bombarding you with questions.
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From the FDMB FB page they are using a Relion meter
 
I'm sorry everyone. I had to leave. My mom was in a car accident this evening and I had to go check on her. She is fine. I just got home and tested Kopie again (2 hours later) and he is 285. I just don't get it. He's all over the place.
 
Carey said:
I'm sorry everyone. I had to leave. My mom was in a car accident this evening and I had to go check on her. She is fine. I just got home and tested Kopie again (2 hours later) and he is 285. I just don't get it. He's all over the place.
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OMG I hope your Mom will be OK!! So much stress all at once!! :bighug::bighug:

The higher number could be from "bouncing" from that earlier lower number. If possible try to get another test in a little later when you have a chance,.
 
Yes, mom is ok. The accident happened, the dog hurt her leg chasing one of the other cats and Kopie's numbers dropped all at once! I will test again in a few hours. Should I give him insulin tonight or wait until morning?
 
I'm glad your mom is okay. He's bouncing from the 64 and skipped dose. If you were to shoot now you would have to change your shot time to 12 hours from when you shot. I'd just skip.
 
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@Carey & Kopie ...it will help if you'll go ahead and put the link to your spreadsheet into the "Signature" area as well as some other information

If you look below our comments, you'll see that we all have some basic info about us/our cats so that when we ask questions, people don't have to ask us the same things over and over again.

To add your Signature, just go to the top right and find your sign on name....there's a drop down menu where you can choose "Signature"

A new box will pop up for you to enter information into like:

Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems? and a general location.

Then you'd add the link to your spreadsheet so it's always there anytime we need to see it and click "Save"

Carey & Kopie said:
Should I give him insulin tonight or wait until morning?
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If you shoot now, can you shoot again in 12 hours? ...and then work your way back to your chosen shot times over the next several days? (you can work back 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day until you're back where you want to be)

If not, I'd just put N.S. (No Shot) in the U column of your spreadsheet and start over in the morning.
 
Chris & China said:
@Carey & Kopie ...it will help if you'll go ahead and put the link to your spreadsheet into the "Signature" area as well as some other information

If you look below our comments, you'll see that we all have some basic info about us/our cats so that when we ask questions, people don't have to ask us the same things over and over again.

To add your Signature, just go to the top right and find your sign on name....there's a drop down menu where you can choose "Signature"

A new box will pop up for you to enter information into like:

Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems? and a general location.

Then you'd add the link to your spreadsheet so it's always there anytime we need to see it and click "Save"



If you shoot now, can you shoot again in 12 hours? ...and then work your way back to your chosen shot times over the next several days? (you can work back 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day until you're back where you want to be)

If not, I'd just put N.S. (No Shot) in the U column of your spreadsheet and start over in the morning.
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I think I'm going to skip the shot tonight but I think he's going to be really high in the morning.
 
Hope you will start posting here daily. Many of us will help you with Kopie and understanding his needs. What makes this place better is that as a group, we can advise better and see what else has been suggested. Facebook is really just social media and sometimes the folks giving advice don't have much experience
but act as if they do.

That's a great picture of Kopie..... such a face....

Hope to see you in the morning....
 
There's not much you can do at this point

He's "bouncing" off that low today....bouncing happens when 1. they drop too low, 2. they drop too quickly 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of the 3)

The liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring them back up quickly.....it takes time for those hormones to clear the body

About the only option you have now would be to either wait until morning (although you could shoot an hour early if you wanted to and if she's still high enough) and then shoot again 12 or 13 hours later (depending on if you could continue on the new schedule) OR you can shoot tonight at what would be your +18 ( the "usual" +6) and then skip the normal AM dose and shoot on time tomorrow at PMPS

Those high numbers aren't nice to see, but they do take time to do any damage. I'd try to get a ketone test in if you can though. Anything over "Trace" is a medical emergency
 
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Chris & China said:
There's not much you can do at this point

She's "bouncing" off that low today....bouncing happens when 1. they drop too low, 2. they drop too quickly 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of the 3)

The liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring them back up quickly.....it takes time for those hormones to clear the body

About the only option you have now would be to either wait until morning (although you could shoot an hour early if you wanted to and if she's still high enough) and then shoot again 12 or 13 hours later (depending on if you could continue on the new schedule) OR you can shoot tonight at what would be your +18 ( the "usual" +6) and then skip the normal AM dose and shoot on time tomorrow at PMPS

Those high numbers aren't nice to see, but they do take time to do any damage. I'd try to get a ketone test in if you can though. Anything over "Trace" is a medical emergency
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Ok thank you. What number would you say he needs to be at for his morning shot and should I give the 4.5 or lower it? I will get some ketone strips. I don't have any.
 
You're in good hands here with all the experienced FDMB folks helping you. So glad you're here!

I've been in that panicky place myself a lot, too, as I'm still learning, myself. You're doing well!

So hope your mom's okay: that's way too much stress for one night! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Here are some ways to get a urine sample for ketone testing:
  • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
  • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
  • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.

I love your boy's photo! He looks like he's full of mischief! :)
 
I was using Catrine (special litter for getting urine samples), then tried putting a small, shallow bowl under Girlie's bum once she started wee'ing - didn't have a clean, long-handled spoon at hand as Kris suggests. Girlie is ever-accommodating and not easily embarrassed :eek: so this works well for us. Then I just take a non-needle syringe, Siphon some urine up from the bowl, and put a drop on each square on he test strip. Works a treat!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Here are some ways to get a urine sample for ketone testing:
  • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
  • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
  • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.

I love your boy's photo! He looks like he's full of mischief! :)
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Thanks, he was full of mischief then he got sick with the diabetes. That's why I'm so confused by Thursday night. He was back to his old self getting into stuff in the middle of the night, then the next day he bounced.

When he pees, he leaves a puddle in the middle of the litter and doesn't cover it. Can I put the test strip in the puddle? Also, he had ketones in May when he was diagnosed. Would they be gone?
 
As I stated in my signature, I use a small amount of Evo dry for my senior cat and Kopie occasionally eats a little of it. Someone told me on Facebook that I need to get rid of all dry. What do you guys think?
 
Carey & Kopie said:
When he pees, he leaves a puddle in the middle of the litter and doesn't cover it. Can I put the test strip in the puddle? Also, he had ketones in May when he was diagnosed. Would they be gone?
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If you're sure the puddle is fresh you could try it for a ketone test. Ketones can come and go and we always recommend testing for urine ketones if your kitty has a history.
 
Carey & Kopie said:
As I stated in my signature, I use a small amount of Evo dry for my senior cat and Kopie occasionally eats a little of it. Someone told me on Facebook that I need to get rid of all dry. What do you guys think?
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All wet food is best for diabetic kitties. However, if you can't eliminate all kibble there are a couple of types available in the US that are low carb: 1. Young Again Mature Zero (available from their website online) and 2. Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein (in pet food stores?)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
If you're sure the puddle is fresh you could try it for a ketone test. Ketones can come and go and we always recommend testing for urine ketones if your kitty has a history.
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Yes, I can go in there with him, he doesn't mind. He pees really low like a girl so it would be hard to put something under him.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
All wet food is best for diabetic kitties. However, if you can't eliminate all kibble there are a couple of types available in the US that are low carb: 1. Young Again Mature Zero (available from their website online) and 2. Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein (in pet food stores?)
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Yes, I've researched them and found Evo to be 8% and talked with other people that use it.
 
If you can get them to switch to only wet food, that would be ideal. If not, I would try the young again zero carb. It seems expensive but 2 Tablespoons is enough calories for a day with it so you don't use much very quickly. It's actually considered 5% carb but kitties have achieved remission status with it.
I have not seen any make that claim with the Evo.


Have you got any more data since the preshot?

Looking at your chart, you hit that green and bounced to red.
So that black number in there is very likely a bounce from an even lower green the night before.

Try to get some random tests to fill in that spreadsheet. Its like a jigsaw puzzle and we need more pieces to get a glimpse of the big picture.
 
Carey & Kopie said:
When he pees, he leaves a puddle in the middle of the litter and doesn't cover it. Can I put the test strip in the puddle?
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First Kopie is sooooo cute !!!!

I test for ketones in the "puddle". What you want to do first is take a little fresh litter add some water , dip test strip in water and make sure it tests negative. I guess there are some litters that may have additives that can give you false positive.

For testing soon as Kopie lifts her bum stick the ketone strip in the puddle before its adsorbed. Easy peasy:)
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
If you can get them to switch to only wet food, that would be ideal. If not, I would try the young again zero carb. It seems expensive but 2 Tablespoons is enough calories for a day with it so you don't use much very quickly. It's actually considered 5% carb but kitties have achieved remission status with it.
I have not seen any make that claim with the Evo.


Have you got any more data since the preshot?

Looking at your chart, you hit that green and bounced to red.
So that black number in there is very likely a bounce from an even lower green the night before.

Try to get some random tests to fill in that spreadsheet. Its like a jigsaw puzzle and we need more pieces to get a glimpse of the big picture.
Click to expand...
In the last month I have been testing him a lot. He gets tested a minimum of 3 times a day and a curve about once a week. How much more testing do I need to do? It's really hard to do every day with working.
 
Beenie said:
First Kopie is sooooo cute !!!!

I test for ketones in the "puddle". What you want to do first is take a little fresh litter add some water , dip test strip in water and make sure it tests negative. I guess there are some litters that may have additives that can give you false positive.

For testing soon as Kopie lifts her bum stick the ketone strip in the puddle before its adsorbed. Easy peasy:)
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Thank you! He is our goofy kitty. I will try testing with the water first. Thanks!
 
when you are able, try to get a random test in the pm cycle.... much much later.
some of us drink a large glass of water before bed so we have to get up, and while there, grab a quick test.
Cats are notorious for going lower in the night when we sleep.


If you decide to do tight regulation, minimum testing are the two pre-shots ( mandatory) and then another during each cycle.

Perhaps you could do an out the door test, or an in the door test for work days.

A +2 in the pm cycle is a really good one because if there is a significant drop from the pre-shot, it is likely to be an active cycle where you need to monitor
more for safety ( when they are dropping into yellows, blues or greens)
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
when you are able, try to get a random test in the pm cycle.... much much later.
some of us drink a large glass of water before bed so we have to get up, and while there, grab a quick test.
Cats are notorious for going lower in the night when we sleep.


If you decide to do tight regulation, minimum testing are the two pre-shots ( mandatory) and then another during each cycle.

Perhaps you could do an out the door test, or an in the door test for work days.

A +2 in the pm cycle is a really good one because if there is a significant drop from the pre-shot, it is likely to be an active cycle where you need to monitor
more for safety ( when they are dropping into yellows, blues or greens)
Click to expand...
I always test before each shot and before bedtime each night. Not sure if I could handle getting up in the middle of the night. I'd have a hard time getting back to sleep.
 
I understand that.
This is a very very sleep deprived community. That's for sure.....:rolleyes:

Not saying each night.....
random..... because you happened to get up. But even a +10 or +11 can be a clue.


The ss is like a jigsaw puzzle with lots of missing pieces and every clue gives us a better image of what's going on.

You do what you can....
 
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