Kitty PMBG 48, +1=54, +3.5=94 - Newbie, eyes please!

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Missy & Kitty

Missy & Kitty

Member Since 2013
Good morning!

This is Kitty's second day after starting Lantus. Her BG is under 200, so I wasn't going to give her a shot this morning. She's pretty hungry, so I was going to give her some LC Friskies pate to eat. Is that fine?

I noticed this morning that she had diarrhea some time during the night. I don't know if it's from the food or from the insulin. She ate canned food Friday and Saturday and I didn't notice any diarrhea.
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

Welcome to Lantus Land!

We do tend to shoot a bit lower that they do on the Health board. Our "post and ask for help" number when you're starting out is 150 so you did the right thing. Given that Kitty has had all of 2 shots, I'd suggest that you don't feed yet and instead, re-test in 30 min. When you stall, you don't want to feed and you want to see if numbers are either staying the same ("surfing") or rising.
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

Hi Sienne and Gabby,

I completely forgot to check the box that said to notify me when there was a response, and I missed your message! I gave Kitty some food, and I was going to check her again at 10:30 AM. I think I'll go ahead and check it now. I hope Kitty is OK.
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

No problem!

Given the drop and that you don't yet have very much data, I'd suggest you skip this morning's shot. I'd also suggest getting a test at around your +4 or so to see when Kitty's numbers begin to rise.

I'm also wondering whether it may make sense to reduce the dose to 0.25u. Given this kind of drop, 0.5u may be too much for now.
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Also, were you feeding dry prior to Kitty's diagnosis? If so, the switch over to canned food may be why Kitty is having some diarrhea. It's not uncommon to have a bit of bowel issues with a food switch.
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

Should I give her something to eat to help bring it back up?

Yes, she was eating a lot of dry food, Meow Mix. I didn't want it to drive up her BG, so I've just been giving her Friskies canned pate. I haven't seen her drinking a lot of water since she's been home. I guess because I have been giving her canned food, but she is drinking again since I tested her this last time. I don't know if it's because of the low number, or if she's just thirsty. Man, I really don't like not knowing about this stuff. I feel so stupid and helpless!
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

Wow, I wasn't sure what plus hour you were on when you said she was 82 until I looked at your spreadsheet.
Yes, I would feed her a little bit of canned food, and test again at +2.
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

82 is a fine number, so you don't necessarily need her to come up from his number, just surf nicely in these numbers and not dive down too much.
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

I checked her BG this morning at 8:30 and it was 142. I fed her Friskies pate around 9:15AM, and then I tested her again at 10:00 AM. Her BG had dropped 60 points since then.

I just gave her a little more pate.
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

I thought it was a bad thing for her BG to drop so drastically. She hasn't had any insulin since 9:00 last night.
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

So: AMBG 142, +1 82, +2 74
and she had diarrhea

Her BG is OK, having just started Lantus on 7/20. She may not need much at all to kick-start her pancreas. It's much too soon to tell. Since she had no insulin this morning, she is not in danger of hypo. You can test her every few hours if you want, to see if her numbers stay below 100. In that case, obviously, you will not give a PM shot either!

MJ
 
Re: 7/21 Kitty AMPS 142

I tested again and it's now at 62. I think I'm going to give her some LC Friskies pate. I think she's hungry.
 
Re: Newbie alert..7/21 Kitty AMPS 142-no shot but BG lowerin

Everything is so new, and I totally don't know what I'm doing. I'm so anxious, and my hands still shake when I test her BG. I'm also nervous about her BG dropping so much today..especially without her morning shot. I'm paranoid that I'm going to do the wrong thing and make things worse. I want to feed her, but I don't know if that's the right thing to do. It's silly! I have spent all day with her, and she hasn't used the litterbox once. She's getting a good amount of canned food, and I saw her drinking water this morning...surely she needs to pee! I got some ReliOn ketone test strips, so hopefully she will let me test her soon.
 
Re: Newbie alert..7/21 Kitty AMPS 142-no shot but BG lowerin

Edit your subject line to:
"7/21 Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes please!"
(you must do this in your first post)

I know you're nervous, but she's most likely just fine. Let her eat if she wants. Many cats have normal BGs in the 60s or even the 50s. She's had very little insulin so far.

Was she eating dry food before she was diagnosed with diabetes?

MJ
 
Re: Newbie alert..7/21 Kitty AMPS 142-no shot but BG lowerin

There have been quite a few kitties who come here and their caregivers learn about keeping their kitty on a low carb, canned food diet. That diet change can have a dramatic impact on BG numbers and it looks like that may be what's happening with Kitty. One of the clues that Kitty's pancreas is working is that when you feed, you're seeing numbers drop. What that means is that food is stimulating her pancreas to produce it's own insulin.

Let me make a housekeeping suggestion. Can you go to your first post in the thread and click on the "Edit" button? Then, change your subject line so it reads:
7/21 Kitty AMBG 142, +1-82, +2-74, +5-62​
If you don't shoot, the notation is AMBG (vs. AMPS since you don't have a pre-shot value if you didn't shoot). You can keep the Newbie Alert!!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

MISSY!! BREATHE!! You're OK!

See...I TOLD you that you would see some of the same people over here too. You've been doing fine in Health, you're doing just as 'fine' here too!!

ANOTHER BIG HUG,
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

MJ+Donovan said:
Was she eating dry food before she was diagnosed with diabetes?
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Yes, she ate only dry food, Meow Mix. I weighed her the other day, and she is 9.68 pounds. She looks wide, but she doesn't feel heavy. I would think that she should lose some weight. I know the Friskies pate that I am feeding the cats has a high amount of fat in it; are there any other cheap options with lower fat content? I have 6 mouths to feed! Ha!

Sienne and Gabby said:
One of the clues that Kitty's pancreas is working is that when you feed, you're seeing numbers drop. What that means is that food is stimulating her pancreas to produce it's own insulin.
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I sure hope so! I would love it if she didn't need to be on insulin.

Squeaky and KT said:
MISSY!! BREATHE!! You're OK!
Click to expand...
*big breath in* *big breath out*
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Hello again Missy!!

I see you've been getting some excellent guidance from these wonderful people, so I'm just going to add this one thing. Since Kitty used to be on Dry Meow Mix, it's TOTALLY possible that just by changing to the LC wet food will bring Kitty down into normal numbers. I has happened before! It's way too soon to tell, but Kitty may be one of those special kitty's that can be managed with food, and may not need insulin at all, or only for a short time. Again, it is too early to say for sure, but think positive!!

We all want our cats to be cured "yesterday", so I understand how you feel and that you're unsure about everything. I was too, as were everyone else here at one point. Keep asking questions, read the Stickys and most of all, breathe....We're here for you!!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Hi Missy!
It's great Kitty is surfing in nice green numbers, and without the morning shot!!
She may not need insulin for very long!!!

I know exactly how you feel, Missy!
I'm also fairly new to tight protocol, and still often not sure if I'm doing the right thing, but many people here are very knowledgeable and supportive, so I'm sure you'll be more than fine!
I used to be very scared every time I see a green number :-D

I don't think you can go wrong either way if you feed or not feed her a little bit (like one or two tea spoons) of her regular low carb food if you are worried.
Sometimes, I give my cat a little LC food at a higher number than 62 if I can't stay with her, or if it's getting close to the next shot time.
Or sometimes I don't give her any extra food, just to see how she'll do.
I do what I feel comfortable, ask lots of questions, and I keep learning every day.
Even if you give her a little food, and realize later that maybe you shouldn't have, that's not a big deal, no permanent damage done!

Please maybe get +11 and post a question if you should shoot tonight before PM shot time.
And please do not feed Kitty her dinner until you get an advice.
Much more important and critical decision than whether you can feed her a little food or not.

You will be fine, and you are already doing so good!
You are me a couple of months ago.
Just wanted to give you my mental support!!!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Don't worry about her not drinking water. Yes I know easy for me to say...I went through the same thing with Maui. Pre-diagnosis and eating dry food, she would drink water like crazy - even out of my glass.

Once she started eating wet food only and I do add a lot of water to the food (1 can of water to 1 can of food), she rarely touches the water bowl. This means that she is getting plenty from the food.

You can add water to her canned food if you want - you may want to start with 1/3 or 1/2 can. You don't have to go extreme like I do.

And without insulin, you have nothing to worry about - she can't hypo ..... this is good news.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Oh, and Missy, I'd like to add.... if you are going to ask for an advice whether you can give insulin to Kitty tonight or not, it would be best to stop feeding her any snacks even a couple teaspoons at least 2 hours before the preshot time.
You want to show an advice giver the number that is not influenced by food.
It's not too important about little snacks in mid-cycle, but becomes more important at preshot if you are deciding whether you can shoot or not.
Does it make sense?
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Chris & China said:
I see you've been getting some excellent guidance from these wonderful people, so I'm just going to add this one thing. Since Kitty used to be on Dry Meow Mix, it's TOTALLY possible that just by changing to the LC wet food will bring Kitty down into normal numbers. I has happened before! It's way too soon to tell, but Kitty may be one of those special kitty's that can be managed with food, and may not need insulin at all, or only for a short time. Again, it is too early to say for sure, but think positive!!
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Hey Chris! Yes, everyone is just so awesome here. It would be wonderful if Kitty was one of those special kitties. :razz: I'll definitely be thinking positive thoughts!

mariko said:
I used to be very scared every time I see a green number
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Yeah! I've read so many scary things about low numbers!

mariko said:
Please maybe get +11 and post a question if you should shoot tonight before PM shot time.
And please do not feed Kitty her dinner until you get an advice.
Much more important and critical decision than whether you can feed her a little food or not.
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I was hoping to move her shot times up a little so that I wasn't having to stay up so late after and because there probably aren't a lot of people on at that hour. Are you saying that if her BG is high at +11, I may have to give her the PM shot early since I didn't give her one this morning?

So will the LC food bring her numbers up or down? I thought it would bring them down, and that's why I was worried about feeding her. I know that I should give her the HC food if she is <50 and on insulin, right?
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Could you edit her Profile to indicate that she was previously eating dry Meow Mix before diagnosis? The way it is now, it sounds like she has only eaten Friskies pate. The diet change really explains a lot with regards to how her BG is dropping.

MJ

edit to add: since you skipped this morning's shot, theoretically you can move the new shot time to whenever you want and start over. Assuming, of course, she gives you a shootable number. Stay tuned!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Her shot times from yesterday are 9AM and 9PM (I'd like to make them a little earlier if possible). I'll stop feeding her food at 7PM and test at 8PM (+11). Will I need to test again close to 9 to make sure her numbers haven't changed?

MJ+Donovan said:
Could you edit her Profile to indicate that she was previously eating dry Meow Mix before diagnosis? The way it is now, it sounds like she has only eaten Friskies pate. The diet change really explains a lot with regards to how her BG is dropping.
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Absolutely!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

MJ+Donovan said:
edit to add: since you skipped this morning's shot, theoretically you can move the new shot time to whenever you want and start over. Assuming, of course, she gives you a shootable number. Stay tuned!
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Oooh! I like that! As much as it would stink for me, I would like to have her shot times at about 7:15. That would give me enough time to ask questions in the evenings. I've been staying up so late lately; I'm pooped! I'm normally a night owl, but staying up until 1:30 and 2:00 is no fun..especially when you have cats yowling at you, jumping on your pillow, and clawing the curtains at 7:00 AM. Ha!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

I have doubts as to whether she'll need insulin tonight, but yes, post what will be her new +11 here.
If you were going to shoot at PMPS, you'd still want to get that +12. But if you're not gonna shoot, no real need.

MJ
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

I mentioned +11, so you can see which way Kitty is going when you have the PMPS number.
MJ says it's OK to move the shot time, so no food 2 hours before the new shot time so you can decide if the preshot number is shootable or not.
But please remember if you move the shot time tonight, your tomorrow morning's shot time should move to 12 hours after that, too.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

I know you guys probably want to kick me right now, but I have to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what I'm supposed to do.

Since I can move the shot time to whenever today, I would like to do her shots at 7:15. That means that I won't feed her anything after 5:00, and I don't need to do the +11 because I'm moving the shot time up. I will test her BG around 7:00 and post the results. If you guys say shoot, I'll give her a shot around 7:15. Is that right, or did I just make some stuff up? nailbite_smile
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Missy & Kitty said:
I know you guys probably want to kick me right now, but I have to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what I'm supposed to do.

Since I can move the shot time to whenever today, I would like to do her shots at 7:15. That means that I won't feed her anything after 5:00, and I don't need to do the +11 because I'm moving the shot time up. I will test her BG around 7:00 and post the results. If you guys say shoot, I'll give her a shot around 7:15. Is that right, or did I just make some stuff up? nailbite_smile
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Stop food at +10 (your 5 pm). Still test at +11. (your 6 PM). test again at PMPS (your 7 PM) Post here and get the ok to shoot or not. Shoot at 7:15 if needed.

p.s. Don't own a kicking foot. ;-) Remember, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. We want to keep your kitty safe. Ask and ask again. As often as necessary. (And I'll keep telling you this as often as you need to hear it. :cool: )
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Don't worry, you are asking good questions!!!

I think you got it right.
- It's better if you don't feed her after 5:00, so your +7 7 pm number would not be food-influenced.
- No need to get the +11 since you plan to move the shot time up. Still get your NEW +11 number!! Deb is right!
- Post+7 7 pm and wait for an advice.
- Your tomorrow morning's AM shot time should be 7:15, if you end up shooting her tonight at 7:15.

After getting the +7 7 pm test, and when you post a question whether to shoot or not, how about putting some real "eye-catching" subject line :-D
I'm not good enough to give a shoot/no shoot advice, and I'm worried if you'll get an answer in that 15 min time.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Yayyy, Deb is here!!!!
Forget what I said, and go with Deb!!!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

I actually do want Missy to get that +11. That will tell us if the PMPS is a rising or falling number. That is the reason for getting a number at +11 or +11.5, to see if the pre-shot is rising or falling.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

My money's on no shot. Yay for broken diabetics! :mrgreen:

MJ
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Yes, Deb is right.
I was thinking about "OLD" +11, and I was getting the time totally confused.....
I'm glad you are here, Deb!!!!
I'll keep my mouth shut now :lol: :lol:
I hope everything will work out good, Missy!!!!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Deb & Wink said:
Stop food at +10 (your 5 pm). Still test at +11. (your 6 PM). test again at PMPS (your 7 PM) Post here and get the ok to shoot or not. Shoot at 7:15 if needed.
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Hey Deb! I'm so glad to see you! +10 would be 7 PM here.

Deb & Wink said:
p.s. Don't own a kicking foot. Remember, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. We want to keep your kitty safe. Ask and ask again. As often as necessary. (And I'll keep telling you this as often as you need to hear it. )
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Heehee!

mariko said:
I was thinking about "OLD" +11, and I was getting the time totally confused.....
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and now I'M confused! Haha!

Also, I fed her a couple of teaspoons of LC pate at 3, and a couple more at 4:30. I knew she would get hungry soon, and since no food after 5, I thought I would give her a little something to tide her over. Was that OK?
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Is it odd that she hasn't used the litterbox all day? I came in to test her at 8:30 AM, and she had used it sometime during the night or early morning, but nothing since.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Your new shot time is 7:15. Your time
That makes your new +11 6 o'clock your time.
That makes your new +10 5 o'clock your time.

Think of this like the clock time change from daylight savings to standard time. Fall Back, except we are moving the clock back 2 hours.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Hi Missy & Kitty!! Welcome!!
No advice from me, just wanted to welcome you :-D You and Kitty are doing GREAT. It's very overwhelming and scary at first, but in time you'll pick it up and start feeling a little less scared. You're hands will quit shaking too :lol: This is a great and knowledgeable group of people here and they will guide you the whole way ;-) Hang in there and know that every day will get a little easier :YMHUG:
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

That's crystal clear now, Deb! Thank you so much!

Pam & Hoot said:
Hi Missy & Kitty!! Welcome!!
No advice from me, just wanted to welcome you You and Kitty are doing GREAT. It's very overwhelming and scary at first, but in time you'll pick it up and start feeling a little less scared. You're hands will quit shaking too This is a great and knowledgeable group of people here and they will guide you the whole way Hang in there and know that every day will get a little easier
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Thanks, Pam! I sure don't feel like we're doing great, but I'll take your word for it! Ha!
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

I think the references to +11 or +10 are confusing since they don't reflect your shooting early. The basic premise is that if you skip a shot, you are no longer needing to stick to your 12/12 schedule since one shot time was skipped. The original shot time no longer applies -- unless you want it to. So, you are now at liberty to pick your shot time.

If you want to shoot at 7:15, then don't feed after 5:15. You may want to get a test at either 5:15 or 6:15 and post the numbers.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Yeah, I got confused for a minute there. Now I know what to do! :-D I feel better when I know what I'm supposed to do.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

PMBG is 48. I'll be skipping the evening shot. I'm guessing I need to give her some HC food though..even though she doesn't have any insulin in her, isn't that too low?
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

No HC food required. Normal numbers for a non-diabetic cat are 40-130. One of my civies often tests in the low 40's.

I'd just give Kitty some LC food, as you normally would.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Actually, since you haven't given any insulin, I don't think there's a need for HC. I'd just give Kitty some of the LC food and test in an hour.

BTW, if you need to post numbers, you need to edit the subject line in your first post in the thread. It's only the subject line from the first post that's visible on the board.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Actually, we typically use 50 - 120 as the range for normal numbers. 40 is getting into dangerous waters as there's minimal margin for safety if numbers are that low.
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Sienne and Gabby said:
BTW, if you need to post numbers, you need to edit the subject line in your first post in the thread. It's only the subject line from the first post that's visible on the board.
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Oops! Newbie mistake. :oops:

I'll feed her some LC food and test in an hour. I'll remember to change the subject line this time. ;)
 
Re: Kitty AMBG 142, +2=82, +3=74, +5=62 - Newbie, eyes pleas

Sienne and Gabby said:
Actually, we typically use 50 - 120 as the range for normal numbers. 40 is getting into dangerous waters as there's minimal margin for safety if numbers are that low.
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But I gave normal non-diabetic numbers. Not numbers for a 'minimal margin of safety'.
Deb & Wink said:
Normal numbers for a non-diabetic cat are 40-130. One of my civies often tests in the low 40's.
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Source is here http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2003&PID=6827&Category=977&O=Generic via here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_in_cats#cite_ref-27
 
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