Kitty diagnosed for Diabetes, Please Help...Questions

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beachin

beachin

Member Since 2013
confused_cat Hi, my cat's name is Char Char. He has always been very big, 28 lbs. He started loosing weight and I didn't notice it for a while. He has always eaten a lot. He wakes us up multiple times at night to be fed. He also is drinking a lot of water. Of course these things happen at the worst times. My husband and I are both out of work.... So, I took him to one vet. They wanted $500 in test. They wanted $69 just to sedate him before they would even touch him. I called another vet and left there!!! The other vet for $107 did a test of his stool, and an in house urinary test. He has lost about 14 lbs in the last 6 months or so. They said they found Glucose in his test but no ketones. They sent me home with Vet RX Purina which now after reading the site http://www.catinfo.org/ it specifically states that this is not good for your food. I am really mad. I paid $47 for it and she knew that money is a concern. I also mentioned that my dogs eat Wellness. I see that that is the good one to feed for cats as well. I just came back to edit. I should also mention that I have over 36 cans of Fancy Feast. I have the Chicken feast in Gravy, about 7 cans of that and then I have 24 cans of Poultry and Beef Feast Variety. The more I read the madder I am getting. I really would like some help. I am ready to fall asleep. I have been researching for over two and 1/2 hours. I had a Home Invasion, woke up with a man on top of me and a knife at my neck. That is why I am not working. It is really important to me to save my cat and also do it economically. Why did I buy this stupid dry cat food when it looks like it's not even good for Char Char. They knew that finance was an issue yet they let me spend $49 dollars for it!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Any input on if I can get them to take it back if I tell them that the cat won't eat it??? How about threatening to post really negative things on the internet. I really can't take this constantly being ripped off!!! But I do want to continue to use this vet because I live in Buckeye, AZ and the other vet wanted to charge the $500. It's a rock and a hard spot....

Any input, advice, I want to get my money back for the dry food that I bought. If I can buy a non prescription wet food that is better that seems the obvious way to go. My cat has been eating Fancy Feast mixed with meow mix. Switching him to just wet won't be a problem at all...

I have been reading some more and the other question that I had was the Vet told me to feed him only twice a day. This could be a problem. Eh is used to eating about 4-6 timers a day. Always hungry but loosing weight anyways. I just read that they can be fed 4 timers a day. I really want the best course of action here. If that means buying Wellness or Evo or what ever I want to get it tomorrow and start right away. It would help to feed him more then just twice a day. Please advise on what you think is best. I will fight with the vet about returning the other food or else just leave it at their office and dispute my credit card!!!
 
Hello there

Have you started insulin yet? if so, you should not change food unless you are home testing as his blood sugar and insulin needs could drop suddenly.

You can easily return the dry food to the vet, tell him the cat won't eat it. The company will take back open bags no problem.

Keep the gravy fancy feasts for now, you never know when you might need a higher carb food (hypo emergencies or not eating situations) but put them somewhere different from the normal food as this should be special situation food only. Out aside the meow mix too, and go buy a bag of freeze dried chicken treats which are low carb.

Are any of your fancy feasts the classic pâtés? Those are nice and low in carbs and price (although friskies pâtés are bigger cans and cheaper) and both are good for diabetic cats. But again if you have started insulin you need to home test his blood before doing this. Let us know and we can give you more info on how to do this.

You can feed the cats as often as you want. I leave my food out all day and top it up/refresh it in the morning and at night before bed.

Wendy
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB.

The good news is that you can return the food to the vet even if it is opened. Just tell them that your cat will not eat it.

Did your vet also do a fructosomine test? That is one test we do recommend because that will confirm if your cat has diabetes.

As Wendy mentioned, the Fancy Feast is fine. Just save the food with Gravy in it for emergencies. You do want to avoid dry food. All dry foods are high in carbs that will make it hard to control Char Char's diabetes. Other foods that work well that are not expensive are Friskies and Special Kitty canned foods.

Did your vet prescribe insulin? If so, what type and what is the dose?

As you have been reading on this site, we strongly recommend hometesting. This is done for a couple reasons. 1) If your cat is on insulin, you need to test your cat's blood glucose (BG) before every shot to make sure it is safe to give insulin. This will help you avoid hypoglycemia, which can be dangerouse or deadly. Also, after several days of readings, this will help you and us to determine if your dose needs to be reduced or increased. 2) By testing at home, this will eliminate unnecessary trips to the vet just to have the BG checked. Hometesting is not difficult and done with a human glucose meter. You do not need a pet meter, even if your vet tries to tell you otherwise. Many of us use the Walmart Relion brand glucose meters.

Don't be surprised if your vet tries to discourage hometesting. Unfortunately this is something we see often. Just think of it this way. If Char Char was your human child, would you give him insulin without knowing it is safe to give him? You do not need your vet's permission to hometest.

If your vet is prescribing insulin, the ones that work best in cats are Lantus, Levemir, PZI & Prozinc. The Lantus & Levemir are human insulins that will be purchased through your pharmacy. Get the script for the pens instead of a vial. The reason is that with a vial, it will become ineffective long before you finish using it. With the pens, you will be able to use almost every drop. A package of pens will have 5 pens in it and there is enough insulin to last almost a year, depending on your dose. In a couple of the postings, you can also find a link for a $25 Lantus coupon. PZI & Prozinc are pet insulins and prescribed in a vial. You should be able to use most of the insulins in the vials. With any of the insulins, you want to start at a low dose, 1 unit 2 times a day. If you start higher, you could have missed your optimal dose (another reason for hometesting) or it could be too much insulin.

Continue reading through this site. You want to read through the info concerning diet, insulin & hypoglycemia. Ask us any questions that you may have. That is the reason this board is here - to help guide you in caring for your cat.
 
Hi Char Char's caregiver and sugardude Char Char and welcome to the FDMB. We have lots of experience with the day-to-day management of diabetes.

I have one very important question for you. What is your name?

I'm Deb and that tuxie over to the right of my post is my sugardude Wink. I feed him Fancy Feast classic pates and Friskies pates. These are low carb, < 10%, and have kept him off insulin for 5 months now. He had to be on insulin for about 5 months, and then his pancreas healed and he started to produce his own insulin again and is now a diet controlled kitty. We call that OTJ, off-the-juice, insulin being the juice.

Please, ask us all the questions you need to. We'll answer them the best we can.

Here is a link to the Lantus savings card program that was mentioned.

You certainly can feed your cat more than twice a day. I feed my, including the diabetic, 4 times a day. It's actually better to spread the food out into mini-meals.

Wendy told you to set aside that Fancy Feast with gravy. It's too high carb for a diabetic cat.

Please, let us know how else we can help you.
 
Unbelievable, this is the message I got from my vet, ........, oh, and no, they didn't start insulin. We were going to try the food change first....

11:56 AM (5 hours ago)

to me
Dear ..... .......,

Thank you for your questions and your ideas on your desired treatment for Char Char
One of the most important criteria for the delivery of veterinary care from the veterinarians and the staff members at this facility is a polite, effective, comfortable and open avenue for communication. Additionally shared confidence between client and doctor is essential component of an effective veterinarian-client-patient relationship. Unfortunately, these e mail and your belief that we are selling inferior products and are unable to care for Char Chars needs with our current protocols have left us with no option then to refuse any further services. We will refund your bag of food with a check sent to your house. Ideally another Veterinarian should see your pet for the follow up evaluation. We will send over the medical record to the successor Veterinarian.

Thank you

Dr. ...... ........


Businesses here don't give one rats ass about anything. If you say the simplest thing to them they just drop you. I wasn't even rude. I cut and paste the information about the food that I read and simply told him that my cat wouldn't eat it. I also asked them about future visits, home testing etc. I have three other pets and I was happy that I had thought I had found a good vet close by. Only a mile from home. I swear I just give up. I had a Home Invasion in this state about a year and a half ago and since then I have learned that people here are rude and don't care about anything but themselves. I am very depressed now and going to bed cause I just feel like crying. Thanks for all your help.
 
You might want to go back in and edit your post and remove your last name. People trolling the internet for information like this and we want to keep you safe.

Wow! Guess you'll need to find another vet asap to get a prescription for insulin if the diet change does not work out.
 
first of all, you need a hug :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

You've been through so much but please know you're in the right place now. The members of this board have vast experience at treating diabetes at home, and a lot of us don't go to the vet for anything more than our prescriptions and routine vet care.

I know you're overwhelmed right now, and mad as hell too....Look at it this way though...you want to find out sooner rather than later if your vet is going to expect you to treat him/her like God Almighty and follow every word they say like it's the Gospel. Been there, done that!

Take the money you get back for the food and go to WalMart and get a home glucose meter so you can learn how to home test. Relion Prime and Relion Confirm are used by a lot of us..The Prime has the cheapest test strips (this is where the money is at...the meters are cheap) but the Confirm aren't too bad and require the smallest blood sample. If the diet change doesn't bring the numbers down, you're going to always want to test before giving any insulin anyway, so the meter's a good buy either way. It'll tell you what you need to know without the expense of the extensive testing at the vets...usually...there are always exceptions...ECID!! (Every cat is different)

I'm not familiar with Arizona, but I do know I've seen other members who live there, so hopefully one of them can help direct you to a vet who's willing to listen to you and do what's best for both Char Char AND you!

Take a deep breath..and try to relax a little...The members here WILL help you every step of the way!!

Good luck to you both....You deserve it!
 
See my signature link Vet Interview Topics to help you screen vets.

Got to Google Maps and enter veterinarian near street, city, state to see ones nearest you. Some may have online reviews, too.
 
One thing I need to know is how far you're willing to travel. I have a few friends that live in the west Valley but not closer than the Goodyear/Avondale area. My vet is amazing but he's all the way in central Phoenix.

A Google search shows at least 2 other vets in Buckeye. Have you ever used either if them? If not, you may want to start there.
 
Thanks all for the kind words. I already searched for other vets. The problem is that I live in Buckeye, AZ. Way west. I am not comfortable driving anymore ever since the Home Invasion, and this vet had good reviews, I liked them and their prices were right. There aren't any others in the area that are. I'm scared to death to do the Glucose test on my own. I can't stand blood but I'm gonna try. Ever since moving to Arizona it's been a nightmare. I literally hate it here. It's a long story but I can't go home. I'm gonna get my cat some other food too. What do you think is the best, medium priced. Fancy Feast is expensive with how much my cat eats. If Wellness or Evo or something was cheaper cause it filled him up better that would be okay. Do you think he will eat less once he feels better. I just pray that this will do it!!! Thanks again so very much, kind words are worth a million. cat_pet_icon bcatrun_gif wings_cat drinking24
 
The other vet in Buckeye that I went to was the one on Watson who was really expensive and wouldn't even touch him without the $69 sedation cost... That's just crazy!!!!!!! BTW, my name is Linnea
 
First, home testing isn't near as hard as you think it's going to be and we'll help you all the way. There are some wonderful videos on YouTube...Here's one I found you can start with, and then more videos will come up along the right side to look at too if you just do a search for "How do I check blood glucose on a cat"?

[youtube]_zE12-4fVn8[/youtube]

As for food, here's a newly compiled short list that can help guide you...but you don't need to buy the most expensive food available! Lots of us use Friskies or Special Kitty Pate's (13oz can...especially good if you're feeding more than 1 cat), as well as the Fancy Feast pates (called "Classics")...Avoid the ones with gravy, sauces, etc as those are High Carb (but if you do end up on insulin, you'll want to keep a few of those "Gravy Lovers" cans around)

Here's that list Shortcut shopping list less than 8%

and another list Dr. Lynn's Food List

The members here will help you in any way we can...we've all been where you are...worried if you can do home testing, can you give insulin if you have to, should you spend $1 per can or $4?

As I suggested last night, when you get your money back for that dry food, use it to get a Relion Prime or Confirm meter at Wal Mart, some strips to go with the model you buy, some lancets (28 gauge are best for new ears) and pick up some of the wet foods on these lists. That's a good place to get started!

We'll be with you all the way!!
 
Thanks Chris, I am going to pick those up at Walmart. Mean while, any specifics on the food, he doesn't like the Friskey's pate, he does like Fancy Feast, but they are so small. Anything specific that you would suggest based on that???? Oh, okay, just clicked on your link. I was just readying that Evo has had a lot of recalls. Most recent in June... Not good...
 
Linnea, I don't know for sure about the Evo, but I do know I've seen some others feeding it lately...I'm pretty sure the recalled foods were only the dry (which is the last thing you want to feed because of it's high carb values)

Here is another chart that breaks down wet cat food into protein, fat and carbs...and brand Binky's page
You're shooting for under 10% carbs

We all realize this sugardance is crazy, especially at first when you're overwhelmed and worried about your furbaby, but we've all been there and will do our best to help you along the way. Ask questions! As you think of them, write them down so when you have time to post, you won't forget any!

Now for a bit of good news....You say Char Char is a BIG eater...that's most likely because he's uncontrolled!! As you get his blood sugar down, his appetite will come down too...as well as the amount of water he drinks and pees.
Our unregulated sugarcats body's can't use the nutrition they get from their food, so eat a LOT more of it to get the nutrition they require...once you get the diabetes under better control, that will come down...as well as your costs

Since you're not giving insulin, it's safe for you to go ahead and transition to all wet, low carb foods over the next few days (too fast can cause GI problems)..as you learn to test, you'll need to keep records of your results so you can see how it's going. It IS possible that a food change can be enough to get Char Char under control!

Make sure you get rid of any dry food or "forbidden" snacks he could get into too

Good luck to you and Char Char..and welcome again to the FDMB!
 
Binky's food list is quite outdated, no updates since March 2008. I would not use that outdated list. The most current food list is the one by Dr. Lisa Pierson at catinfo.org, here http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

If your cat likes the Fancy Feast, you can try mixing in small quantities of the Friskies, gradually decreasing the amount of FF and increasing the amount of Friskies. Try Wal-Mart's Special Kitty brand.

The EVO recalls have only been for the dry food, possible salmonella contamination, which seems to be more common with the dry foods.
 
Thanks for the link Deb...My computer with all my bookmarks is at the shop, and for the life of me, I couldn't find Dr. Pierson's list anywhere

(Since I'm renting this one, I figure I'd best not add a bunch of bookmarks to it)
 
How long before my cat stops eating as much. After the first day he wasn't meowing as much but today he started again. I weighed him again today and he is at 13 lbs. He used to be 28... I called the vet today and asked them if I was ever rude to them and told them that I never said that they were selling inferior products.... I also told them that they have put my cat at extreme risk because the $47 I spent with them on on office visit I now have to take the time and spend again instead of what they promised when I made the appointment. That any follow ups, insulin treatments I would not have to pay for the office visit... When I called I asked to speak to the Dr. that sent me the email. I was put on hold and then someone else came on the phone. I again asked to speak to him. She told me that she was told to talk to me. I asked them if it was customary to refuse service of a patient because their cat wouldn't eat a food that they prescribed. She told me that it's important when working with a cat with Diabetes to have a close relationship and follow all of their advise. I said, doesn't it make sense to you and wouldn't you want your patients to research the disease their pet has and do as I did, send an email to discuss when the next visit should be and if I should do Glucose Testing, etc... Anyways, I am reporting them to the American Veterinary Medical Association Board in Arizona. I don't know if it will do any good at all but what they did is very unprofessional and people should know before entering a relationship with them.

More importantly, what should I expect now, how soon should I see a turn around if I am to see one. I am going to read all of the other information a little later. I have been on the computer now for over 2 hours as it is. I didn't sleep at all last night so I didn't get up until 2pm and I have a million things to do. I am going to have them credit the credit card tomorrow and take the food back. They wanted to send a check but my bank is in Washington and that means putting the check in the mail to be deposited. I think they didn't want to see me again and they weren't concerned with me returning their food. I want to go down there, if only for the simple fact that I'm not embarrassed, I did nothing wrong.

Good idea on mixing the Fancy Feast with the Fri skies, I have that and Nine Lives, (need to check the list and make sure that is okay), that he wouldn't eat. My only concern there is that he then won't eat those either and I will have wasted the food..... It is okay to feed him as often as he wants correct???? Also, the food that has the least Carb's is that the one that is going to if food alone will, turn it around quickest? At what point or how long should I wait before knowing that he has to have the insulin shots? Once on insulin if he has to be, still no dry food??? How expensive is insulin and the testing and everything. What should I be prepared for? Also advice on minimal tests I should get at the next visit? And, can I read the glucose test by myself? Will I need a vets help? I can't believe I now am back to no vet!!!!!!!!!!!! :-x :cry:

If I had done something wrong I could understand, even if I had been short with them I could. But I honestly wasn't. I was so grateful that they saw him and for the money. I have been very short ever since the Home Invasion and in the one instance where it was so important I did nothing wrong yet my cat is suffering. I want them to be disciplined by the Board of Directors for what they did.
 
Just a note here: vets often receive their nutrition seminars from the pet food manufacturers. Obviously, these manufacturers have a vested interest in presenting their specialty foods in good light. It is entirely possible the vets believe what they've been told. So when you tell them the food is worthless, etc, they could well think you are saying they're incompetent.

You might want to take a step back. Vets treat numerous conditions in several species and it is difficult for them to be up to date on every condition for every species. Humans see specialists.

You've mentioned the home invasion in almost every post. I suspect (from my former life as a crisis counselor) that you will be dealing with this for some time. I hope there are some local resources available to you helping you with that. It may be coloring some of your responses to other people and that may be affecting their responses to you.
 
Changing to the low carb Friskies and Fancy Feast may lower the blood glucose 100 mg/dL. This may not be enough to get the glucose to normal levels although it should help some.

Stress at the vets office sometimes raises the cat's glucose 100 to 180 mg/dL. Testing at home will allow you to get a better picture of how your cat is doing. You may see some subtle signs of improvement - decreases in thirst, hunger, and urination. Check my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for more assessments you may wish to track.
 
When I emailed them about the food I copied the information from the Dr. on this site. I did not criticize them about their food or knowledge. I have worked with a lot of different people in my life and know how to say things to people in order to not upset them. I included that information for that specific reason and also in order to let them know that I was not in any way suggesting that they didn't know what they were talking about. I simply stated that it didn't matter because my cat would not eat the food. Clearly they have issues in this regard that had nothing to do with me. The reason I mention the Home Invasion is because it has made me less patient with people and as a result it has also made me aware of it. Because of it I also know the difference in how I am presenting something to someone and go out of my way to be considerate and not loose my cool. Since moving to this city I have noticed that the people here are all a little off. The littlest thing will create a big ordeal here. My husband and I both have been dealing with it for over a year now.
 
I think for now, the best things you can do are just get your refund for the food, and go to a WalMart and buy either a Relion Prime, or Relion Confirm micro meter. These are human meters, but that doesn't matter. The meters themselves are cheap...about $15 and depending on whether you go with the Prime (strips $9 for 50) or the Confirm (strips are about $39 for 50).
I personally like the Confirm micro because it requires the smallest sample size, so I'm willing to pay a little more for those strips, but if you really want to go as cheap as possible, the Relion Prime is the way to go.
Also, get a box of lancets..less than $5 but look for "alternate site" lancets (28gauge) The lower the number, the bigger the needle, and when you're first starting, these bigger needle will work better for you...Once ears "Learn to bleed" you can go back to the 31 gauge needles

Print out Dr.Lisa Pierson's info here http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf and watch for the Low Carb brands (number of carbs is in the 3rd column line)

Transition him to eating only the LC varieties and set up a spreadsheet to keep track of what his numbers are. Just by switching to the correct foods, it's possibly you won't even need insulin, but until he's been eating ONLY LC wet and you've done enough Home Testing in between PreShot tests, we'll be able to help you get the right dose to start with.

The only problem left for now, is IF you do need insulin, you'll have to find a vet to prescribe it. Lantus is the insulin used by the majority here. Don't start giving the insulin until you're testing and have maybe a week's worth of information and we'll go from there!!
 
Thanks again. Tomorrow I'm gonna look into buying the glucose tests. I'm so discouraged tho, I can't even begin to think about poking my cats ear for blood... let alone give a shot. I have never been able to do anything like that and don't know how I'm gonna change at 49... I feel like I've already lost him. I love him so much I just am having a really hard time.
 
There are a lot of us that felt that way at the beginning....How can we ever learn all this? Won't my cat hate me forever? How can I do this to him?? Sound familiar?

For now, just concentrate and changing the foods over to the LC wet. How Char Char takes to having his ear poked will guide how quickly you can get to home testing. The part of the ear you poke really doesn't have many nerve endings, so doesn't hurt, but it seems most cats just don't like their ears fooled with period. For a little while, you might want to go ahead and work on transitioning food, (getting rid of any dry or high carb stuff...keep any HC wet food...you may need it later, but put it in a special place for when you do!)

As you're transitioning food, start slow....put him in his "testing spot" (wherever you decide it's going to be) and rub his ears..depending on how much he tolerates it, make sure he gets a yummy treat...even if he just barely lets you touch his ears! Lots of us use Freeze Dried Chicken, or a little Deli chicken as their "testing treat". Soon they learn to associate getting that very special yummy by being in that particular place..and don't even really notice you're fooling (or poking) their ears.
(to save money, I bought chicken thighs on sale, froze part and boiled 2 pieces...after cooling a little, I cut it up into little bite size pieces that should last me 2 days and the rest I froze so I have some ready in the fridge all the time, some cooked but frozen all the time, and some raw/frozen at all times. $3 for 8 thighs that'll easily last me at least a couple months isn't bad at all.

Just do one thing at a time...for now, gather the supplies you need and can afford, start the food change and watch lots of videos on home testing your cat...they really do help...and just relax and let us help you.

You CAN do this!! And you'll just have to trust me when I tell you that after awhile, it becomes totally routine, and that this time you spend with Char Char can end up being one of the most rewarding times of your life.
 
beachin said:
Thanks again. Tomorrow I'm gonna look into buying the glucose tests. I'm so discouraged tho, I can't even begin to think about poking my cats ear for blood... let alone give a shot. I have never been able to do anything like that and don't know how I'm gonna change at 49... I feel like I've already lost him. I love him so much I just am having a really hard time.
Click to expand...

The injections aren't difficult. I am your age also and absolutely hate needles and never thought I could do it either. Actually, what is weird, I can do her shots, but I can't stand to watch anyone else do it, like at the vets, and have to look away!

Is there a low carb treat that he absolutely loves? You could possibly give him his shot while eating a special treat. Have you tried freeze dried chicken? I have never seen a cat that didn't go crazy for freeze dried chicken.
My girl is a lovebug also but quite fractious, and I cannot do her injections any other way. I call it "chicken and a shot" :)

When she was first diagnosed, I never thought I would be able to get the shots into her. The first week was horrible, I was chasing her around, trying to find a good time, place to do it, and every time I touched her to would swat at me, scream and run off. Add the anxiety never giving injections before and unsure if I was even doing it right...oh what mess! You can practice the injecting to make yourself a bit quicker and more comfortable with that aspect of it (I used a stuffed animal).

I have done "chicken and shot" 2x a day now for well over a year with success. It's now routine. What worked for me was the treats, and she has a "shot spot", meaning I give her the treat in the same area of the house (the counter) each time, and now she waits there for it. Hope this helps and works for you.
 
Here's a link to a shopping list for you. It's a Google doc link so you can just print that out easily and I cut and pasted a shortened version of the list here into this post too.

Getting started shopping list

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro. Or Relion Prime (needs bigger blood drop)
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound - not the cream version
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you do'nt have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
Click to expand...
 
Thanks so much. I just came in from the pool. I've been crying all day and just that fact that you care enough to coaxe me on helps. Char Char let's me rub his ears all the time. I just did a few hours ago. He likes it... I already have him eating nothing but wet food. I'm not usually such a baby except when it comes to my animals. I just am so frustrated. It's huge for me to get in my car and go see strangers and open up now, ever since the, and I don't want to say it again but I did and felt so good about finding a vet so close that I felt comfortable with. I feel like I have just let him down so much and like he doesn't have a lot if time and I am trying so hard to pull my chin up and continue to fight. Meanwhile I didn't sleep last night and so all I am worth today is not much. I'm gonna try and get some sleep and more forward tomorrow. There are other things going on. My husband is just beginning to deal with his mothers death and has decided to drink, every day rather then look for work and I can't deal with his things right now because he's too busy having a pity party when we are finally getting things situated with our new house etc... He has just quit on everything for about three months. So on top of everything else I have his childish behavior going on. Char has to take priority right now.
 
Reread everything. I'm gonna do it. I have to. My Japanese Chin, Jack died from a heart attack just after the invasion in my arms and that's not gonna happen with Char, I can help him.
 
Linnea, this diagnosis hits us all hard, and with all you have going on in your life, it's important that you make sure to take care of yourself too. I know you're disappointed with what happened with the vet. All I can suggest is you just accept it for now, and do the best you can to make sure you're feeding Char Char the low carb foods, and getting used to the testing routine. If the food change doesn't bring down the numbers, you'll have to cross that bridge when you come to it...and maybe, after some time to calm down and reflect, the vet will reconsider and let you try again. If not, then at least you'll have the testing routine down and can find a vet that will give you the prescription for Lantus and you'll be ready to start that part of the adventure.

As I said earlier, a lot of us don't go to the vet for anything other than our prescriptions and routine care, so if you can find one willing to give you the prescription, you won't necessarily have to keep going back a bunch of times. The people here know as much as most vets (really more since they live and breath feline diabetes every day) and will help you along the way.

Real life usually delivers a sucker punch when we're least likely to be able to cope with it, doesn't it? Just prior to China's diagnosis, I lost my dad, and my mom had a stroke. We all do the best we can...sometimes that means crying all day, and sometimes it means reaching out to someone who can help...if only to listen and encourage. We're all here to help you.

Best of luck to you and Char Char. He didn't develop diabetes overnight, and it'll take time to try to get him regulated

ETA..not all wet food is low carb...check the lists and keep to under 10%
 
beachin said:
...I can't even begin to think about poking my cats ear for blood...
Click to expand...
You will because you must.
Step by step
Buy the meter.
Read the instructions to set it up.
Practice pricking an apple to get a feel for it.
Using a fresh lancet, test yourself.
Select a test area; I used a half bathroom so I could shut the door and prevent escapes.
Have your meter, test strips, cotton ball or folded tissue, Neosporin w/ Pain Relief Ointment, maybe a big towel if you need to wrap him up, and low carb treats.
Bring the cat to the testing area.
Wipe a small dab of the ointment on the outer edge of the ear and let it sit for a couple minutes. Maybe treat or cuddle a bit.
Set the test strip partly in the meter.
Wipe off the ointment.
Prick between the vein and the edge, about 1/3 of the way up the ear. If necessary, get the droplet on your clean fingernail.
Push in the test strip.
Touch the end of the test strip to the edge of the blood drop.
It will be sucked up and the meter will provide a result.
Blot the pricked area firmly to reduce bruising or scabbing.
Treat!
Three unsuccessful tries and stop; try again later.
 
You've got all of us here at FDMB rooting for you. You can do it! :RAHCAT

Here are some great ear testing tips that should also help you get started. I also wrote this up for another member a while ago and thought you might find it helpful.
KPassa said:
Something you might want to try is breaking the testing process down into individual steps:
  • Get your testing supplies set up in a nice testing spot
  • Warm rice sock or equivalent
  • Find Kitty
  • Get Kitty into test position
  • Warm Kitty's ears
  • Play with Kitty's ears
  • If using a lancet pen, click pen next to the Kitty's ear a few times
  • Get test strip ready
  • Poke ear
  • Poke ear again if no blood the first time
  • Poke ear a third and final time if there is no blood
  • Get blood on test strip
  • Release Kitty and give a treat (both to Kitty and yourself ;-) )

Then, for your next test time, focus on only the first step: getting your testing supplies ready. Find a spot where you want to test the Kitty (if you don't already have one) and turn that into your "testing environment." Sit there a moment and reach for your tools and see if they're easily accessible or if you might need to change the way you're sitting or even re-arrange some furniture. Focus on that and mime out the motions of testing as if Kitty were sitting on your lap. And you're done.

The time after that, heat up the rice sock. See how long it takes in the microwave to become warm enough but not too hot. You can use your own forearm to test (as you would with a baby's bottle). Is 15 seconds better than 20? Or is 20 seconds perfect? Maybe 25? Go to the test spot and mime the testing actions again.

Third time, find Kitty and bring him to the test spot. You're still not going to test him yet. Just bring him there and sit with him for as long as he'll remain still (even if it's only a few seconds). Practice this step as many times as you need to. Find a position that is agreeable for both of you. Feed him a few treats to get him to stick around longer.

Fourth time, use the sock on Kitty's ears. Rub it along his body, under his chin, across his head, anywhere he'll let you. Feed him plenty of treats.

Fifth time, start playing with his ears, bending them this way and that way and finding out which angle might work best for you to see the "Sweet Spot" and doesn't irritate or annoy him too much.

6th, 7th, etc...

First time you attempt to poke, only poke once and see if you can get blood. If you can't get blood, then it doesn't matter because that's not what this step is about; that comes later. Right now, it's just about the poking. If you get blood, then consider that as a pleasant surprise but don't stress yourself on getting it on the test strip in time. If you do, even better, but it's not important at this stage. Each subsequent time you "test," poke only once until you feel comfortable poking a second time. Then proceed to the "poke twice" step.

...I'm sure you're getting the idea now, but basically try to approach testing as a long, leisurely journey where you have all the time in the world. Remove the urgency from it. Tackle each step individually until you feel comfortable with it and then proceed to the next. Go at your own pace, your own speed. Don't rush yourself or Kitty. There is no pressure to "get it done now" so give yourself the time you both need to "get it done right."
Click to expand...
 
Chris & China said:
If the food change doesn't bring down the numbers, you'll have to cross that bridge when you come to it...and maybe, after some time to calm down and reflect, the vet will reconsider and let you try again.
Click to expand...

If I were you, I'd rather drive to Phoenix than go back to that vet! :evil: :lol:
 
If I were you, I'd rather drive to Phoenix than go back to that vet! :evil: :lol:
Click to expand...

Yeah...from someone going 40 miles instead of 1 because of an idiot vet, I totally agree, but each of us has to decide what's best for our own situation. The only reason I said that was because this same idiot vet kicked me out of his practice several years ago for disagreeing with him...eventually he allowed me to come back (but it took 2 years)...And I only used him for routine vet care like giving my dog the shots the city I live it require before taking China in to find out why she'd lost so much weight and was looking so sick. When he took the same "I know what I'm doing better than anyone else could possibly know, so do what I tell you to do and don't question me again" attitude, I went looking for another vet...for China and the dog :-D
 
I just wanted to chip in and say that you are not letting char char down! You are doing the best you can and above we have given you lots of actions you can take to get control back in your life. You can do this!! Read their posts again and let us know if you have questions..

Wendy
 
Once you get started testing:

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first (mg/dL). Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters (mmol/L). Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
 
Hey there,

You are not alone, I too was suckered into buying expensive prescription diet for my diabetic kitty, for years. I had no idea what I was doing was wrong. As his insulin need climbed, the cost got higher, and the food cost climbed over the years.
It was a vet prescribed diet, I was doing what I was told, what could be wrong right?

Like you, I reached out here, and found many wonderful people, most of who are responding right in this thread helping you. Make no mistake, They are a godsend. They may not always agree with each other, but they have your best interests and your kitties in mind. They are here to help.

My kitty is still a work in progress. His levels still bounce around a bit for no apparent reason but he is a FAR cry from 10 units twice daily, and he is happier, more affectionate and he LOVES his new Friskies Pate diet. My wallet is happier too.

You are in awesome hands.
 
I went to the store with my shopping list and to get everything I didn't have enough money. There were pre-auth's on my husbands unemployment card from Sears that aren't ours. Those just fell off today. I am really confused with those numbers above?? I am gonna order from Amazon the urine strips and also get the other in the next few days. The biggest thing I just realized is that if I have to go to a vet who is gonna charge me everything all over again I don't know how I'm gonna come up with that money again. I spent $150 with the first vet. Now I have to do it again. I watched the video on giving the shot and now I'm crying again. I want to hurt someone. preferably the vet. Char has eaten 17 cans of Fancy Feast since Friday at 9pm. It's now a little more then 48hours since then. That can't be good. He won't let me sleep. wakes me up every hour for more food. I've missed one interview as a result so far. Things aren't going so well.
 
The number reference I provided is for comparison to any home tests you get.
If, for example, you tested between shots, and the result was less than 40 mg/dL, you would follow the linked directions for the hypo protocol because the cat was too low for safety.
 
(hugs). It will get better. Dont worry about the numbers above right now - lets get you testing first and then over time those will make sense.

You might be better getting test stuff on walmart as it might be cheaper. For example relion ketone strips are $7 at walmart.

For now too, lets try the food first for a week or so (assuming no ketones) and then see about a new vet. The good thing is that you know Char Char is diabetic so a new vet doesn't need to do all those tests again - insist that the old vet faxes the files to the new vet. Then all the new vet has to do is prescribe you insulin.

Testing gets easier over time. It doesnt hurt them - they have few nerve endings - less than your finger. My boys sleep through the whole thing until the treat comes out!!

Once Char char is regulated, and/or gets used to the new yummy food, the eating should slow a bit.

Wendy
 
Char has been eating nothing but wet food since the day I brought him home. It's been over a week now. He's eating a ton and crying a lot. Any advise on American diabetes Wholesale and the food from felines instinct? There are some inexpensive things there. I'm gonna do a search. Also, the only blood test they did was in house. Not full. Will another vet go with that? Does anyone know a vet in AZ who will prescribe without seeing him based on what this vet did?
 
I have never heard of felines instinct.. do you have a link I can see? friskies have large cans of pate that are good too. and fairly cheap.

The only blood test they did was in house.. yikes. that is so inaccurate as it can be inflated by stress. we need to get you home testing asap so we can at least confirm the diagnosis.

Wendy
 
Well, I'm sure it us Diabetes... Also re Friskies pate, as I.ve said, he won't eat that. My groomer was just here. She said there was a pill for insulin. I googled and can't find it. If I could do a pil it would be easy. All I have to do is put some bacon bits next to the pill I'm giving him now and he eqts that and the pill...
 
Problem with the pills is they encourage the pancreas to produce insulin - this puts stress on an already weakened pancreas and makes it worse. And the cat ends up on insulin anyway not long after. Remission becomes impossible and regulation hard. I would not do the pills.

Honestly insulin injections are really easy - its a short needle, they dont feel it. It takes a second to do - usually when they have their faces in the food bowl. And Lantus is such a good insulin many cats go into remission - or at least feel a lot better with it!!

Have you tried fancy feast classic pates?

Wendy
 
He is eating Fancy Feast, about 22 cans since Friday at 10pm.... I am getting a Glucose tester and strips from someone in the mail and going to call a vet tomorrow and ask about a prescription and costs etc...
 
Ok cool!

Ask the vet to write or call in a script for solostar pens - with the coupon (below) you can get each pen for $25 - it is sold in a box of 5 pens - some pharmacies will sell you one pen at a time - you just have to call and ask. You use syringes with them - not the needle tips they can be sold with.

When you fill out the lantus coupon card - be sure to put your cat's name and your last name and list the cat's age as 18 (otherwise you won't get the coupon).

http://www.lantus.com/starting/save...px?WT.mc_id=LNWB4333&WT.srch=1&iq_id=58228314

Typically we recommend a starting dose of 1 unit or 1/2 unit.

Wendy
 
Wow! Eating you out of house and home I see! :o :shock: :o

22 cans in less than 3 days is a lot. That's more than 7 cans a day! :o Or 21 ounces! Wow!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

How much does your kitty weigh?
 
Still here, didn't want you to think I didn't appreciate help. Just running out to get some supplies, got glucose monitor. .....
 
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