Kitty and I new to forum

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Tooloo

Tooloo

Member Since 2013
Hello. My name is Debbie, and I live in Portland, Oregon. I have two cats. TooToo is an 11 year-old male, and Looloo is an 8-year old female, both Siamese. Tootoo was diagnosed a week ago with diabetes. I have not started him on insulin yet but have an appointment tomorrow to pick up the insulin and see the vet to get started. I have ordered a monitoring kit through the vet so that I can do it myself (and hopefully save lots and lots of money).

My cats have always eaten Purina Indoor dry food, sharing a can of Fancy Feast every night (at exactly 5:00 - funny how they can tell time :-)) I thought I was doing the right thing feeding the dry food and being a bad mommy feeding the Fancy Feast, especially since TooToo has always been a little pudgy. Since the diagnosis and doing some research, I've realized I should have kept them off the dry food and let them have at it on the Fancy Feast. The day he was diagnosed (and before I researched), the vet had me buy Purina DM dry, which she sold in her clinic. I have gradually moved them over to the DM dry, but I know I need to get them on wet food. I bought some Wellness wet food, and they are semi-interested. They prefer Fancy Feast, so I think I'll gradually get them eating that more and the dry less and less. The main difference seems to be that the Fancy Feast has meat by-products, artificial flavors, and salt; whereas, the Wellness is real meat, no artificial anything, and no salt. Fancy Feast is also less expensive, although I would be willing to pay a little more for the Wellness if they would eat it.

I laughed at the letter posted here from the cat. I was very worried for the first few days, getting up in the night to find out why he wasn't sleeping with me, etc. When I weighed him several months ago, he weighed almost 17 lbs. At the vet last week, he weighed 15.8. On my scale, which only weighs to the nearest half-lb., he was at 15. I worried he was losing too fast. He's back to 15.5 on my scale now, so I feel better. His ideal weight is 12 to 13, so he does have a little more to lose - slowly.

I'm somewhat concerned too about keeping an eye on him with my schedule. My husband and I are gone a lot. We run a business, and I work another job too. I'm not sure how this will work. How closely do I need to watch him? I'm sure I'll find out more when I see the vet tomorrow.

I've read through several of the posts on this forum, and I appreciate everyone's questions and answers. I guess if anyone can tell me what to expect at this point, that would be great. Obviously, there's a lot I don't know yet.

It's funny because sometimes he seems perfectly normal, then becomes very lethargic again. The peeing and water drinking seems to have lessened, even though he's not on insulin yet. Perhaps from the small shift in diet (the new dry is lower carb than the old dry).

Ok. Thanks for listening, and I would love to hear from anyone!

Tootoo's mommy.:-)
 
Hi Debbie! Welcome! It sounds like you've found a lot of the most important information already, about testing and diet change. You are well prepared to help Tootoo! Don't hesitate to ask lots and lots of questions . . . that's what the board is here for!

A couple of random thoughts: you said you ordered a monitoring kit through the vet? I'm thinking that would be an Alphatrack specifically for animals? If so, from what I hear the strips are really expensive, like a dollar each or more depending on the vet's markup. A lot of people here use glucometers from Walmart (Relion Prime) because the strips are 50 for $9. So if it is the Alphatrack the vet has on order, you might want to not get started on that one just because of the strip cost.

You also asked about how much you need to watch him, and how you will manage it with your schedule. Everybody here has different situations, but somehow we all find a way to make it work! Cats are infamous for not following rule books, but once you start testing his blood sugar at home and keeping track of it, you'll have a better idea of what you'll need to do. For example, my cat has a habit of dropping from high to much lower blood sugar within a few hours of the shot. When I started giving insulin I was planning to give shots around 8:00 AM and PM, but because of the way she drops I found that for me the best thing to do was to give her shot quite early in the morning so I can still be around to see where things are heading before I'm out the door. So just remember the whole thing is a learning process . . . you might need to adjust how you handle things as you go along, but there are so many people with different types of jobs and lives here that probably someone somewhere can always help you out, since they will have dealt with something similar.

Let us know how the vet visit goes, and if you have any questions about doing the blood testing, or about anything else! All the best to you and Tootoo!
 
When you are at the vet , try and get Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc insulins - these are best for cats.

Fancy feast needs to be low carb ones under 10% calories from carbs ie the classic pates. The wellness cans marked "grain free" are also good. Heres a list ( Check column C is under 10) : http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

let us know how the vet goes and we can help with testing tips etc.

Wendy
 
Hi Debbie and Tooloo from another Debbie! Welcome to the FDMB, the best place in the whole darn universe to help you with your diabetic cat. I'm on the opposite coast from you up here in rainy Massachusetts.

Some ideas for you after reading your post.
1. You may want to consider the human glucometers as Amy suggested. Walmart Relion line are used here by many people Relion Confirm, Micro, Prime. Or if you dislike Wal-mart the Arkray Glucocard 01 or Glucocard mini from ADW our shopping partner at the top of the page. You will need to do 4 tests a day if you can, so that is 124 test strips a month. Then there are the times your kitty just does not look right and you want to test. So figure on 150 test strips a month.

At Alphatrak prices, that is $150-300. At Relion Confirm prices, that is $54. At Relion Prime prices, that is $27. The Prime needs a larger blood drop which can be difficult for new people staring to test to get. The Alphatrak, Confirm and Micro all need the same tiny 0.3 microliter drop. About the size of the head of a pin. You know, the one all those angels dance on. ;-)

2. You may want to try mixing small amounts of the Wellness foods in with the Fancy Feast pates. Since they like the Fancy Feast better, this is one way to slowly get them to switch over to a food you like better. Try like a teaspoon at a time and gradually decrease the amount of one food while you are increasing the amount of the other food.

3. Shopping list for you. Click on the blue underlined link to open and print to take with you.

4. We can give you ideas and suggestions to make this fit into your schedule. Just ask.

5. Good job on starting the food switch already. That can be a huge hurdle to tackle for stubborn cats. :o We have more food transition ideas. Just ask. Don't worry about the weight for now. Do try to get the food switch done. It can make a huge difference in many cats.

6. Would you be willing to put a little info in your signature for us? Like your name, cat's name age and sex, diagnosis date, any complicating medical issues, food you are feeding, insulin type and meter used when you know what they will be. You could also add your location to your user control panel, profile tab, edit profile if your would be willing to do that. It helps people like myself know the time difference so we can help you through an emergency situation or find some of those late night west coast folks to help you instead.

You can look at my signature and see an example of the little tidbits of data that are useful to see. These posts can get mighty long and it's easy to miss some key data.

Yes, that letter from the cat is a good one for new people to read. Relax, this is very stressful but we will get you through this new sugardance journey you have undertaken with your cat TooToo.

Keep those questions coming please, we love them! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Most of us have budget concerns and have opted to use human glucometers on our cats. Conceptually, it is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit - freezing is 0 degrees Celsius and 32 degrees Fahrenheit and both are correct. Another important note: the FDA allows glucometers sold for home use to measure within 20% of what a lab would get. This means that any test value actually reflects a range of possible numbers, rather than a specific level. Its OK - its good enough for home monitoring.

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using a human glucometer:

< 40 mg/dL
- Treat as if HYPO
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50.
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

180 - 280 mg/dL
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
 
Hi Debbie. I am also in Portland Oregon and have a recently diagnosed kitty...diagnosed the beginning of July. This is a great and supportive place.

Where in Portland are you? I am near Burnside and SE 39th. If you are close by, maybe we could give each other some local support.

I am testing Ozy and keeping a SS (see link on my signature). I learned how to do a lot things by reading here. Let me know if I can help you.
 
Thanks to each of you for your quick replies! I almost cried! I will need a little time to further research and digest what everyone has said so that I understand it all.

Donaleen, some local support is a great idea. I'm in Wilsonville, so a little south of you.

I do have an immediate question. I talked to the vet this morning, and she suggested a 3-day hospital stay if I'm unable to keep an eye on him the first 3 days after he starts the insulin. It's a toss-up whether I would lose more money paying the hospital bill or not working so I could stay home with him, so I could go either way. I'm leaning toward staying home with him because I hate the thought of the stress to him being in the hospital for three days. But I worry that it might not be as "safe". I would love to hear how you have all done it and what you would recommend. Thanks again for all your tips! You are all wonderful!
 
Numbers at the vet won't be as reliable as numbers at home. Vet stress raises glucose 100-180 mg/dL and may result in a dose which is too high.
 
Tooloo said:
I do have an immediate question. I talked to the vet this morning, and she suggested a 3-day hospital stay if I'm unable to keep an eye on him the first 3 days after he starts the insulin. It's a toss-up whether I would lose more money paying the hospital bill or not working so I could stay home with him, so I could go either way. I'm leaning toward staying home with him because I hate the thought of the stress to him being in the hospital for three days. But I worry that it might not be as "safe". I would love to hear how you have all done it and what you would recommend. Thanks again for all your tips! You are all wonderful!
Click to expand...

You can hold off starting the insulin till it coincides with your next day(s) off if they're coming relatively soon; that way you don't have to take as much time off. In the meantime, you can prep yourself (and Tooloo) by continuing his transition to wet food only and practice learning how to test him since you'll be needing to do that a few times over the course of each day.

Do you know what insulin your vet will be prescribing?
 
Thanks again guys for your responses! So, yes, I decided to keep him home. Vet prescribed Lantus - 2 units twice daily. I gave him his first injection tonight. He looks really Happy....is that normal.:-) I told my husband he looks like I feel after a glass of wine. (Not spacey, but grinning and stretching and purring and such.)

I'll stay home all day tomorrow and Sunday. Monday my husband will watch him, so should all be fine. The vet doesn't want to monitor him until he's been on the insulin 7-14 days. I'm definitely considering what has been said here about glucometers, although the vet has the Alphatrak ready for me to pick up. She wants to do the monitoring in their office the first time. Is this usual? They keep him for the day. I'm ok with that if he doesn't have to stay overnight, and it's just a one-time thing.

How long does it take before you see changes, like drinking less, peeing less, ability to jump returned (I had to put a stool next to the bed to help him get onto it), more energy, etc.?

Donaleen, I wish I was just down the street from you too....

Thanks again. I want to know more about your cats and your experiences. I'll look through more posts.....
 
Well, 2 units of Lantus is kind of a high starting dose for any kitty. Even more so if you are not home testing. Most cats don't need more than 1U to start unless they have a history of ketones or DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis).

The protocol we use here would only have started TooLoo at 1u or less, depending on his weight.

Did you put your hypo toolkit together just in case? And print out and put these instructions with the hypo kit. We want you to be prepared, like the Boy Scouts, if TooLoo goes too low.

IN CASE OF EMERGENCY - YOUR HYPO KIT
Put together NOW the following items and put in an easily accessible place!
•Phone number of your vet
•Phone number, address and map/directions to your nearest emergency vet (or phone number of the cab company and some cash/credit card)
•Karo syrup, honey or corn syrup
•High carb canned food with gravy – 2-3 cans
•Some favourite treats
•Spare pack of 25 blood glucose strips
•Coffee for you ;)
 
I would pick up the meter and test anyway - dont tell your vet if not comfortable. The first week especially you can be up and down with dose until you find a good starting dose - and you dont want to shoot when too low. Its also good practice.

Wendy
 
Thanks for advice on meter and units. I'll get hypo kit together and a meter. So far, so good. The redness he's had around his eyes has disappeared, and he is jumping up on the bed again. So the insulin is working. The vet has me injecting into an area near the scruff of the neck, which I read might not be a good place to get good absorption. But it seems to be working, and it's an easy place. Watching him closely, and no signs of hypo. He's wondering why I keep staring at him. But he seems to be much more comfortable than before we started the insulin. He's eating more Fancy Feast and less of the dry. My little civvie cat is delighted because she LOVES Fancy Feast. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!
 
If you are in the process of switching to just canned, low carb food, I'd really, really encourage you to start home testing, of back off the Lantus to 1 unit.

Lantus is a depot insulin and its effects build up with successive injections. The first 1 or 2 injections may not be an issue, but later ones, with the reduced carbohydrate from the diet changes, may be too much.

The starting dose is often estimated as:
The lower of current weight or ideal weight in kilograms (that is pounds divided by 2.2)
Multiplied by 0.25
Ex: an 8.8 lb ideal weight / 2. 2 is 4 kg
4 kg * 0.25 = 1 unit

2 units would be appropriate for a 17+ lb cat.
 
Re: Kitty and I new to forum... - Bg-37

Hello my name is Danielle between me and my parents we have 6 cats recently our eldest, Baby was diagnosed with diabetes. She is a 13 yr old calico and had recently received allergy shots which we are contributing to her diagnosis of diabetes. We took her to the vet about a month ago, her first visit her BG was in the 500's she spent the night and received 2units of insulin (lantus) when we brought her home the next day they told us her BG was in the 200's and we were instructed to give her 2 units in the AM and 2units in the PM a week later she was still in the 500's so they increased her to 3units twice a day and instructed us to come back in a week to have her tested again. The next week she was at BG-517 which was slightly lower than the week before so they increased her again to 4units in the Am & 3 units in the PM. Another 2 weeks later (today) her BG was 53 which they said is low but told me told keep her on the 4 & 3 units. As I was talking to the vet tech I met Jamie & Jupiter. We had a nice talk and she told me about this site. She was a little concerned with the instructions I was given so she sent me the link to your site for me to post and chat with you all :-D We are just really concerned now that her sugar is low we don't want to keep giving her the 4 & 3 units a day for fear of her going into diabetic shock. When I met Jamie & Jupiter she had a RelinOn meter in her car she showed me how to use it and gave it to me so when I got home I tested Baby again just to see what her BG level was and i got a reading of BG-37 so I gave her a little maple syrup waited 45 minutes and her BG was down again to 27 this time, so I gave her some more syrup but I am concerned! After her diagnosis we also changed her food we now give all the cats Merritts(?) We got it at Petco. Its all natural with no grains or carbs! Any suggestions or help are greatly appreciated as we do not want anything to happen to our Baby!
 
Be careful. A switch to a low carb food like FF can cause a drop (in the space of a day even) in blood glucose and less insulin needed. He could have a hypo. They dont always show symptoms until they are suddenly seizing. And what happens at night when you cant watch and they dont tend to eat as much?

We just saw that yesterday on another board where the member took away the dry, gave 1.5 IU lantus and the next day she spent all yesterday syringe feeding sugar into her cat to prevent a hypo.Thank goodness she was testing. And then today she reduced her dose.

When do you get that meter?

Wendy
 
Hi Danielle, and welcome to the FDMB.

Jamie told me you might be posting so I've been keeping my eye out for you.

How long ago was that 27? More than 30 minutes ago? If so, please test again as soon as you can.

Please give more syrup, smear some on Baby's gums and then give her a couple of drops of syrup mixed into a teaspoon of the Merricks food you have. We need to get those numbers up.

I'm very concerned your cat may be going too low into hypoglycemia.

ETA: I strongly suggest that you call your vet's emergency number.

Danielle, I've split your info out into a new post called "Danielle and Baby" Please put your responses in that post.
 
Hi Everyone. I'm curious - is it best to continue posting on this topic indefinitely, or to occasionally start a new topic? Just wondering about the forum protocol.

Ok. Regarding TooToo. First insulin dose was great. After the 2nd and 3rd one, he seemed weak and lethargic. No shakes or any other symptoms. He was much better during the night and this morning, and I just gave him a 4th injection, but I only did .5 unit instead of the 2 units. I have no monitor as the vet didn't recommend it yet. I am, however, going to take the advice I've gotten here and get one - an inexpensive one - not the AlphaTrak the vet has ordered for me. I feel bad that she ordered it, but I'm quite sure they can return it. I have issues with my schedule. I go back to work tomorrow all day and through the week. My next day home is Friday. My husband's here but has poor vision, so he can't do the monitoring or injections (or drive to the vet). He can, however, see well enough to tell if there are signs of hypo and call one of our kids or a taxi to chauffeur. (I leave at 8:00 a.m.and get home at 7:00 p.m.)

The other thing I'm concerned about is I want to get him completely off the dry food and off the grazing. I've been gradually making the transition. (Doing both cats so they are both on same diet/schedule.) Last night they had a can of Fancy Feast, and I left out a small amount of dry, which was gone this morning. This morning I gave them each a can again and no dry. They nibbled but didn't eat all of it. Then I gave him the .5 unit.

I'm considering stopping the insulin completely until the diet change is fully made and I have a monitor, etc. On the other hand, he showed so much improvement from the first injection, that I hate to delay getting him stabilized on the insulin. It was the subsequent injections that worried me. With the diet change and the fact that the vet tested when he was still on high carb dry food and also stressed from being at vet, I'm thinking 2 units is way too much. Gotta get the monitor!

I don't like the weakness he showed yesterday. Slept most of day and somewhat reluctant to move around much. Couldn't jump up on the couch last night. Was fine later and jumped on the bed ok.

If I decide to make a quick store run today (have to leave him alone), is there a good meter I could get at Fred Meyer or Rite Aid (for you west coast folks)? Walmart is 20+ minutes away, whereas the other two are more like 7-10 minutes away (or Walgreens). I know you've given several recommendations, mostly Walmart's.

Love to hear your feedback. Also want to know what you think of stopping insulin till diet change is made.
 
Also, Danielle, welcome to forum. I'm new too and so glad to have support. How is your kitty now?
 
As for food. I have been transitioning my non-diabetic cats to wet food. We crushed some of their dry food and use it as sprinkles on top of their wet food. We offer the wet food plain first and if they refuse, add some sprinkles. I am pretty sure I read about it here. It works like a charm. It doesn't take many sprinkles to make it work for them.

I wish you were closer so I could help.
 
A new topic is good when you start to get to more than 1 page but link back to the old one so people can review the history.

I think without testing and a food change that reducing the insulin was a good idea - maybe stick with the 0.5 for now.

For testing - always test before every shot. We also recommend a mid cycle test 5-7 hours after the morning shot and one before bed. But that doesnt always work with peoples schedules so heres a thought...

7.30am test and shoot (AMPS - a.m. Pre Shot)
7.30pm test and shoot (PMPS - p.m. Pre Shot)
10.30pm before bed check - if this number is lower than your PMPS - set the alarm for around 2.30am as it could mean an active cycle

Additional test at around 12-2pm on weekends & holidays.

Walmart meters are signifcantly cheaper for strips than elsewhere so it is probably worth the drive - or buy online using the links above.

Wendy
 
Thanks for your responses. So I bought a Relion Confirm. Tested just now - 353. Should I stick with the .5 units I gave him this morning? Vet's instructions were 2 units twice a day. 353 is pretty high. I need to inject in an hour. What the concensus?
 
Lantus has a cummulative effect; successive doses build on previous ones.

Also, adjustments to the Lantus dose are made based on the nadir - the lowest glucose level between 2 shots - after 5 full days on the first dose and 3 full days on any later doses.
 
Ok. But what would you recommend I give him tonight? I was giving him the 2 units, but got a little worried last night when he was exhibiting weakness, so only gave .5 this morning. Incidentally, he was well over 500 when the vet originally tested him. Of course he was still on the high carb diet and stressed by being at vet. I'll test again before I go to bed, but need to give shot in about half hour.
 
Always test before you shoot, for safety.

We suggest new users not shoot if the glucose is less than 200 mg/dL at pre-shot.

You might stick with 0.5 units, so long as he tests high enough.

It'll help us give feedback if you would start up a spreadsheet using our template.
Instructions are here.
 
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