Kitty 8/14 tid

Status
Not open for further replies.

kse

Very Active Member
After the 71 pmps last night, I retested at +9 and she was only 121--so, I decided to wait until +12 and see if she could hold.

I tested at +11.5 and she was 433--so, I reduced from 3.9 to 3.7 and shot. This morning at +8 (amps) she was 307. I don't think that is bad after the bounce to 433. I shot a fat 3.7.

It will be interesting to see what results this gets.

Have a Great Day! It is raining here today.....I love rainy Sundays!
 
Re: Kitty 8/13 tid

Remember that the 433 was a bounce from the 71. I realize that I'm being a Monday morning quarter back here but I would concider reducing more on the next shot, the bounce is still clearing.

I love rainy Sundays too, it's perfect for curling up with a good book.
 
Re: Kitty 8/13 tid

Come back Robin!!!

I just want to be sure I understand and am on the same page with you.

Yesterday, I shot 3.9 into 307 (not looking at SS--but, close) and ended up with a 71 at +8. I reduced this morning--from that 3.9 yesterday and shot 3.7 into the same (close) preshot of 307.

Do you think I need to reduce more? I just want to be sure I understand!

Thanks!
 
Re: Kitty 8/13 tid

I think that the 307 is still some bounce so it will continue clearing, if you shoot a bounce # and then it clears you will end up with too much insulin in her system and end up with another green PS.

So what I try to do is look at the past #'s, doses, results and trends and try to out smart her P and stay one step ahead of her. Dancing as fast as we can.

Does that make sense?
 
+3 is 281

If the 307 was still bounce induce, could it make the numbers remain higher this cycle? That is my understanding...I just want to confirm.

Thanks!
 
Yes it could. That is why we don't increase dose on a bounce number because when the bounce clears you may have too much insulin on board and the bottom drops out (breakthrough), if you don't reduce your dose on a breakthrough and keep shooting your regular dose she will go into protection mode and dump her own sugar to counteract the insulin. Vicious cycle.
 
Paying for the green...hate when that happnes :mrgreen:
but I think I actually understand what Robin is saying!
Hopefully the bounce will clear soon so you can get a better picture!

Have a good one!

Denise and Shakes
 
Cool Kitty has her ams and pms confused! I thought I would take a nap and try to regain some of my sleep from last night....and 20 mins into my nap..Cool Kitty is waking me up---it is 2 pm and she is hungry! She loves to eat at 2 O'clock!

After last night's pmps of 71--I figured I better check her to be sure she wasn't hungry due to a low number.

She tested 261 at +6.

Two more hours until pmps for her----do I stick with the 3.7 or reduce down further? I don't want to create the cycle Robin referred to above. It doesn't look like great movement today, but it looks more normal for her than the green test. So, am I holding up her breakthrough by shooting too much?

Thanks for the help!
 
I am thinking maybe see what her +8 is...but I think I might shoot the 3.7
I was trying to undertand your spreadsheet(God bless you!)
and I think I have it now...
 
Her pmps was 347---my vet tech friend was at my house and decided to give me a hand. So, she gave Kitty her shot before asking what I wanted to give---she gave 3.9. So, far this cycle is FLAT---at +5 she still is not below 300.

I am assuming this is related to the bounce last night and that the 3.9 is too much.
 
Awesome. After a couple PMs with Kim, and now reading what Rob has said... I could actually follow the logic. I wish I'd found this board about a month sooner so I would have really understood what was going on with Bob while it was going on.

Thanks all!

Carl
 
Rob & Harley said:
Yes it could. That is why we don't increase dose on a bounce number because when the bounce clears you may have too much insulin on board and the bottom drops out (breakthrough), if you don't reduce your dose on a breakthrough and keep shooting your regular dose she will go into protection mode and dump her own sugar to counteract the insulin. Vicious cycle.

I've never heard of that with PZI. The reason you don't increase on a bounce from a steep drop or low numbers is b/c the dose is too high, and you don't want to stay with a dose too high, and also you don't want to perpetuate wide swings. With liver training, you don't increase the dose, b/c you don't need to. You got greens, your dose got you greens, so you stay with it, unless back up to the top of the statement, you have reason to believe the dose is too high.

Yes, if you have wide swings raising the dose b/c of a higher PS is a bad move, it will tend to amplify the swings, make the rebound worse, and be a vicious cycle.

But if you don't have wide swings or low numbers, there is no cause to reduce the dose. If you reduce on a breakthrough, from everything I have seen with PZI and my own experience, all you do is lose the breakthrough.

If you are making too much progress so to speak, and the nadirs or PSs are getting low, or you can see they are headed that way, if say you are stairstepping down the PSs and you want to move to evening it out rather than moving down in the numbers, then yeah, you want to reduce. But if you reduce due to a bounce from liver training alone, all you are doing is losing your opportunity in most cases.

I'm not saying don't lower your dose if you get 120 PSs, of course there are times when you reduce the dose, but in this case, I don't see a steep drop, or anything that would even start a vicious cycle.

Sorry, I am very grumpy and may not be making sense.
 
Just to add to that, a lot of times when someone gets a breakthrough there is a really quick dose reduction path, as their bouncing settles down. So sometimes you do have to be quick on your toes to keep up with that, and reduce the dose quickly enough that you don't end up with a dose that is too high.

But the key that I have seen is that you can't reduce *in anticipation* of that happening. It is only *after* they spend time in good numbers that the bounce settles down, and then you can have a hard time keeping up with the dose reductions. But if you reduce too soon, thinking that you want to stay a step ahead of a possible drop, then in most cases I have seen, they will just sit higher numbers. Of course on the flip side sometimes people do get an unexpected low, and that is very scary and of course can be very dangerous if you are not monitoring.

But it's the trade off. With Bix, he was unregulated until I shot enough insulin to risk lower numbers. As long as I hovered the dose just a little low to be "safe" he simply did not get regulated. He either sat in higher numbers all the time, or dipped down to good numbers occasionally, but didn't stay there.

So I think a lot of it is managed risk. If you reduce the dose b/c the bottom *might* drop out, you will likely get paid back with higher numbers. To me, a better route is to be aware of what you are doing - don't increase if you see rebound, but do hold the dose (lowering of course if there are actual signs that it is too high), and if you think you may have a couple cycles where rebound is wearing off, then you monitor more on those cycles to be sure you don't get lows, and if you do, to be able to compensate with food.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top