Kitty 7/26 tid

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kse

kse

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7/25
amps 321 shot a fat 3.25
+4.5 293

mdps 254 shot a fat 3.25
+5 249

pmps 282 shot a fat 3.25


7/26
amps 373 shot a fat 3.25 -----Come back Yellow!!!
+2 323
+4 279 welcome back yellow...

mdps 336 shot 3.4/3.5
+3 323 flat????

pmps 314 shot 3.5

Good Morning,

Our amps was our highest reading in a few days, but I stuck with the 3.25. I am prepared to increase to 3.5 if necessary, but I like the trend we had yesterday in the yellows, so I don't want to overract to one high test.

I hope everyone has good day today!

My prayers are still with Alex.....
 
just a thought...he had some low preshots yesterday
Could he have seen some green by any chance....


thanks for the pep talk yesterday! feeling a little better today

have a great day
 
NO way my baby saw green!!!!! But, it seems she reacts to mid blues in the same manner other cats react to low greens.

She was hungry during the night and woke me up to eat, so I do think she probably dropped pretty decent last night.
 
No worries Saint Sue---it is working Great! Have a great trip and stay safe!
 
I am back again...over analyzing!!!!

Why is Kitty so flat on tid? I am careful what I ask for, because she was all over the place on bid. Her cycles on tid, resemble her early cycles on bid---pink, pink, pink--and flat. I have tried to convince myself, that the flatness is due to have a more steady supply of insulin--thus creating a flatter curve.

Or, am I underdosing her?

She is back to not feeling so good---just kind of laying around. Maybe more is wrong with Kitty. I gave her bupe today...I wanted to skip the fluids today, but I think I will give her some.

I increased to 3.5 today--maybe it will help.
 
I just replied to your pm, but I'll repost some of it here. It is best to give dosing advice in an open forum so others can read and evaluate the advice too :-D

I have been pondering this issue for you guys over here. On BID you were giving appx 4u each dose and she was hitting blues but going right on up once it started pooping out. I am wondering if she really needs closer to 4u TID in order to keep in better numbers. The flat curves is actually what you want to see on TID because you want to catch the upward trend before they really start to go up- heading it off with another dose in order to keep things down - so not too worried there.

I really think you need to be more aggressive with the dosing. So think about a dose increase every three days or so depending on the numbers. Once you get to the 4u mark, you can start going up in 0.5u increments because the % increase is way to miniscule to go up by 0.25u at that point.

Glad you went up to 3.5u today! :mrgreen:
 
Just curious Kelly, when I look at your SS it appears you only tried tid for about 10 days with Oscar and the cycles resemble Kitty's (just on less insulin)---pretty flat. Is that the reason you returned to bid?
 
That is true - we didn't give it a real good try. I was scared by the lack of blue and there was only one person on the PZI forum that helped me by pm with the TID thing. In hind sight, I should have been more aggressive with the prozinc dosing - both BID and TID. I always wonder if it would have worked for Oscar if we did that. I kept being urged to try lower doses, when Oscar really needed higher doses. A while after switching to Lantus I sucked it up, got my big girl panties on (lol), and decided I'd try an aggressive approach with him and catch whatever falling numbers may eventually appear. (All my dosing decisions were well within the Tilly Lantus protocol though). Using that approach we got a break through. So now I am a firm believer in the aggressive approach to achieve a break through rather than sitting on a dose for so long and doing miniscule changes.
 
Kelly, I can see where you are coming from, but the overly aggressive has seemed to throw us into some type of rebound/bounce at times. I have always thought Kitty needs more, but I want to get there slowly and safely-- I think I have accomplished the slowly!

I can relate to there being few people to provide advice with tid!
 
I can understand the caution. When I say and aggressive approach, it just means not holding a dose for a week or more at a time despite less than desirable numbers. The general consensus on dosing with the higher doses is that once you get around 4u, you start going up by half units. An increase from 4u to 4.5u is a 12% increase. On the lower doses an increase from 1u to 1.2u is a 20% increase. If you only did a 0.2u increase on a 4u dose, you'd only be increasing the dose by 5%.
 
Very interesting posts today, Kelly! Thank you so much for chiming in. I've learned a lot from you today, both here and in the post you gave to someone else about PZI in Health. I'd not heard of the term "momentum" before but it makes sense. I've seen it in Shaikha previously and even today, in fact. My usual reaction is to cut back dose a lot as soon as I see it, but it makes sense to wait a little and see if the trend continues before over-reacting. The problem is that I end up cutting back so much we end up causing a worse problem usually. The see-saw from skipped doses is bad enough without adding to it. Add to that Shaikha's various medical issues which make insulin needs vary depending on how she's feeling and it becomes really tough to figure out what to do with her sometimes.

I also was interested to see your comments about flatter curves being more expected with TID. It makes sense. The same goes for your comments on higher doses and increments used. I'd thought something similar in the past due to percentage changes but since I didn't have that much experience I didn't know if it applied with insulin.

I'd typed up a lot more, but lost it and didn't copy it before trying to submit. Every time I forget to do that I end up being prompted to log in (again and again and again) and lose the post entirely. I don't know if it is just me and this new computer, but it is happening a lot lately on this board. I have my browsers set to not delete cookies for this board, but it seems to forget I signed in just a post or two ago all the time. But that's another problem!

Thanks again for posting!
 
Ditto. :mrgreen:

On the momentum question, I think I read over in Lantus that if you try a dose reduction and the numbers go higher, you should go right back to the dose you were at. We rarely seem to do that here, people reduce and then what I have seen is generally a slow creep back up to the dose that prompted the reduction (thereby continuing to lose more & more momentum typically).

I'm kind of thinking too that maybe they only reduce with 2 low numbers, not on the first one? That scares me frankly, but I think I read that somewhere. Too tired right now to go look it up for sure... :roll:
 
Joanna - it depends on the cat. New diabetics automatically reduce on the first number under 50. Longer diabetics (insulin usage more than 4-6 months) you reduce on the first number under 40. Even longer term diabetics (6mo or more) may take a reduction usually after more than two numbers around the 40 range. Oscar is one of those. Not because of how long he has been on insulin, but because he has a long history of not holding dose reductions. We have to hit a number around 40 more than once for me to reduce. Any number below 40 warrants an automatic dose reduction though. I usually try dabs of MC food to keep him above that though if I see him headed that way. (he is really carb sensitive, so very often LC food will bring him up) Also with him, I try like hell to not skip or delay a shot, no matter the number. He can't withstand skipped shots for the same reasons above. So the average person looking at our latest spreadsheet might scream bloody murder, and it definitely isn't something a newbie should try to copy.

People over in lantus/levemir aren't as scared of the greens really. We know according to the protocol that we don't even think of reducing unless the cat goes below 50 at the very least. 50 isn't really a hypo number. 30 and below is - with or without symptoms. (I don't advocate trying to hit numbers around 40 or below though!!!)
 
Rob & Harley said:
So now we're giving L advise again for Prozinc?
Click to expand...

This is not L advice per-say and it was specifically asked about. It is a general understanding that dose reductions shouldn't happen unless the cat has gotten near or below 50, no matter what insulin you are using.
 
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