Kitty 7/19 TID

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kse

kse

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TID dosing
7/18
pmps 346 shot 3.5

7/19
amps 507 shot 4 units
+1.5 385 with 1 can FF at amps
+3.5 205

mdps 472 shot 3.75--maybe it is her liver ---fast hard drop --cut back a little ....didn't feed any during the cycle
+.75 476
+3 302
+5 247 Much slower drop this cycle--maybe she can hold on for 3 more hours

pmps 282 shot 3 units
 
Looking good, but I think the PMPS is for 7/18 -- good you got that sleep! :) I'd still try holding another dose or two to see if she can get by, or if you think she needs a little more, increase a tiny amount, say 0.1 or 0.2U. I know those aren't the type of changes you are used to making but you get the effects compounded on TID.

I do think she's doing MUCH better on this dosing schedule.
 
I agree with the date, but this matched the SS-- I will look again in the morning.

Did you create your TID SS or modify the BID one provided? I attempted to modify Kitty's today, and eventually had to undo everything to avoid a complete fiasco. If you have a template, will you pm me a link?

Thanks!

I might increase her a little in the morning--but, I don't want to get greedy too soon and get into a rebound pattern.
 
Kitty's numbers look a little better, it will be interesting to see what she will settle down to?

And let's change the real date to match your SS! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
For all you perfectionist (Nancy), I have revised the date in the initial post!!!! :mrgreen:
 
Hi Kim!
nice numbers! looks like she might like the TID!
I will keep everything crossed for you both!

Densie and Shakes
 
7/19

amps 507 shot 4 units

This does not look like a bounce to me. I don't think she would get enough drop on 3.5 to bounce.

Okay, think about this......I realize that with tid if makes sense that you take your bid dose and divide by 3 and thats your dose. If that is the way it worked, then it would appear 3.5 is our dose. BUT, if you are dosing tid because the insulin is all but gone at +8--then it makes sense to my narrow mind that the dose should stay the same. Now, I am not getting ready to do anything aggresssively crazy---but, I have data to support that Kitty gets little or no drop on 3 or 3.5 units. Many times with that range of dose, we have had no detectable nadir. I increased to 4 units today (this cycle), simply because I don't think 3.5 is enough for her--even on 8 hours. I know...I know...overlap, but there is no indication that Kitty has anything left (overlap) after +8.

I could argue that the 5 units bid was giving us better numbers. We hit blues, but we didn't get many 300 preshots on the 5 units bid. But, we had very few 500 preshots on the 5 units bid--we have had two 500 preshots in the last 3 days. As a whole, the tid numbers are promising--I realize that--and she isn't going through the "big" swings--but, I think she needs at least 4 units tid.

ON the 5 units bid--she did okay for 16 hours--but, for about 8 hours a day she was in bad numbers. Those 8 hours are the third cycle in my mind--I think she needs more insulin for the tid to be successful.

I can see promise in tid--but, I am interested to hear your thoughts?

GOOD NEWS---she feels great, is showing few diabetic symptoms....and, always a relief to us .....negative Ketones!

Please give me your thoughts...I realize not many have done tid--I haven't either---so, just give me some PZI logic if possible!
 
Okay, I have been thinking about it...there has got to be some type of rebound involved...507 at +8? Do you think you can have rebound, just based on not seeing any reds for an extended period (which for us would be anything in excess of 10 hours!). I am thinking maybe her liver is not use to not being in the 400s for many hours during the day and maybe there is some rebound, not rebound to low numbers, but to cycles of not seeing 400s or greater?

I had seen some crazy high numbers at +8 and +9 on bid--but the preshots on the other side would be lower--a rebound pattern. Maybe now, that rebound numbers is correlating with our preshot test.


Thoughts?


tested +1.5 385------that is with 1 can of FF eaten at amps......
tested +3.5 205----maybe we will see blue today...haven't seen one since starting tid!
 
So I have no idea...just glad you started a new thread! That other one was getting too long. It looks like you are talking to yourself here. Glad that Kitty is feeling good!
 
In the beginning when I started t.i.d. I was doing it the TR (tight regulation) way. Each PS# had it's own dose, this was the only time she has rebounded. Payne likes a steady dose.

Now Payne is a big gulper, like Kitty, so ..... it is too much insulin daily, at this point OR it is not enough and you throw off a high # because if you have nothing left at +8 (which Payne doesn't have either).

We are trying to figure out Kitty's insulin needs so she doesn't run out but at this point, it is something we need testing to determine. I know Payne needs 12u a day when she is feeling good, when she is not, more. I have tested her up one side and down the other, so I have this base, we need to figure out Kitty's.

She might need more or she might need less .... but t.i.d. does seem to agree with her, which is one piece of the puzzle. It just seems if it is rebound we would be seeing some low numbers ..... ??

You may want to try 4u .... but I would do it when you can test a lot. (not last shot of the day) Or since she is feeling good, stay with this a few more doses and see if it settles down.

If this makes no sense it is because I am on vacation and my focus at this moment is somewhere else! we are going to the redwoods today!!

And sometimes Kim talking to herself is interesting :) :mrgreen:
 
I would like to get with one dose and stay with it, but it is so hard to shot 3.5 into a 500 preshot! If I only knew if it was some type of rebound. I also think/know there is some insulin resistance going on----so, it is very complicated!

Barbara-- no one will talk with me....everyone says they don't have tid experience....my thinking is, this is a great way to learn and gain some experience for everyone! I might as well go to LL and make some new friends, so I will have someone to talk too.....! :lol:
 
I agree with Nancy here. Looking at your SS, it does appear that Kitty need more insulin. She also appears to need it more often than twice per day, at least based on how she's doing. I agree with more frequent testing too. You are doing that on this dose, so hopefully you'll know how low she's going. Don't worry about pushing for blues just yet. Keeping her in lower ranges than she's been surfing is enough accomplishment for now. You haven't been at tid that long. It will take her body a little time to adjust.
 
kse said:
Did you create your TID SS or modify the BID one provided? I attempted to modify Kitty's today, and eventually had to undo everything to avoid a complete fiasco. If you have a template, will you pm me a link?
Click to expand...

I just modified the BID one. I think I've created a template that anyone can use if they have the link. Will PM it to you now. Let me know if you can't access it.
 
7/19 mdps 472 shot 3.75

Maybe her liver is panicing---hard fast drop am cycle....205 at +3.5 (down from 507)

This is a lot of work for this response....numbers are no better than bid....

I started not to shoot this cycle and wait a couple of hours to see if the +8 (mdps) was a bounce and would correct itselt--but, I couldn't stand to try it. I cut back a little to 3.75 to see if it would help.

I just went back and looked at the SS, these 476 and 500 +8s are the highest ever....I am starting to lean the other way and say too much insulin! She had gotten 5 units before, but she really was getting max 4.5 bid--9 units a day ..at 3.5 and 4 tid I am increasing her significantly. Maybe her body is reacting to the increase in insulin. I did reduce....but, wish I had reduced further.

I am open to suggestions!
 
Still talking to myself...but, for you late arrivers...I think I have had a change of heart--- maybe this is too much insulin for her on a daily basis. These are the worse +8s I have recorded ever.

I just tested 45 mins out to see if I could catch a rebound before the insulin kicked in---she was flat---476.

Okay, please no "I don't have any tid experience" responses. I don't have any either---help me think this through using the knowledge you have!
 
Oh geez Kim, I usually dont even give advice to 2x a day people...
but I might say this could be a little too much for her...
but then again what the hell do I know!!

ummm..you could try to reduce and see what happens...

wish I had better advice, sorry
hang in there

Denise and Shakes
 
kse said:
Still talking to myself...but, for you late arrivers...I think I have had a change of heart--- maybe this is too much insulin for her on a daily basis. These are the worse +8s I have recorded ever.

I just tested 45 mins out to see if I could catch a rebound before the insulin kicked in---she was flat---476.

Okay, please no "I don't have any tid experience" responses. I don't have any either---help me think this through using the knowledge you have!
Click to expand...

I think less is better, Kim. I'm going down with Shaikha as well. With more frequent insulin I've found I can get away with less overall. I think part of it is that the more frequent dosing keeps her from doing the wider swings and keeps her pancreas a bit more healthy. Don't take Shaikha's recent numbers as a sign of bad things though! It does take a little bit of time sometimes to get them to adapt, but they stay far less variable once you get the dose correct and they get used to the timing.

Off to pick her up at the vet. She's late on her shot as it is, so I don't want to get her too much out of sync.
 
I will be crazy supportive of whatever you decide to do, Kim. But no way can I suggest dosing on TID. So you will just have to put up with my cheerleading. :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

I think your idea seems sound. (Of course, you understand - I know nothing.....)
 
Kim, I don't have any tid experience. :lol:

Sounds like you should reduce? But......you know I can't even figure out what to do bid!
 
Ohhh...good one! :lol:

I can't make a decision on what to eat for dinner...you expect me to help you???
 
I am useless with this dosing. But you are quite good. I think the theories you propose are reasonable and you just need to keep testing to check them out. I agree it is a LOT of work for numbers that are not what you want. Yet maybe it will work out for Kitty, and I don't think you will really be satisfied unless you give it a sufficient chance. What about setting a trial period---if it doesn't work by a specified time you will give yourself a break and go back to bid?

You may feel you are talking to yourself, but a lot of people are listening, even tho we are all too inadequate to give advice. Of course, that still leaves you out in the cold---sorry cat_pet_icon
 
I would vote for trying a lower dose and seeing if that helps. You have a note in your SS "too much insulin? or liver panic?". I don't see any liver-training-worthy numbers to bounce off of, but I do see what looks like at least one steep drop I think - 507 to 205 in under 3.5 hours, so I would think that would cause a bounce.

I would actually raise in only 0.25 increments. So I would probably try 3.25.

What you said about each dose starting over is kind of a half & half thing, and also an ECID thing. On the one hand if the PSs shoot up by +8 then in a sense you are starting over. But on the other hand when she was staying flatter (but shallow), even though she was high enough to shoot, it wasn't zoom.

I can picture it in my head but it's hard to articulate, and I'm too tired to be able to say it. Respect the overlap, that's the short version. Some cats don't get it, but if they do it can be dramatic. This is the kind of stuff no one ever hears me say, lol, but I think you need to give it time to see what the overlap is before raising too much. Some is just that I don't know TID well enough to say, and some is having seen some overlap on early shooting with Bix, it can be quite unexpected.

Her numbers to me on the 3u looked off to a good start, and then the 3.5 starts to look wonky, so that's where I'd go with 3.25. Personally, as long as she is acting reasonably well and ketones are negative, I would give a new dose a good 2-3 days to see where it is going, and then only move in 0.25s. She may not get overlap, but the fact that her TID PSs didn't rise a lot from her mid-cycle makes me think that she could. If you are lucky, raising the dose in a smaller increment like that may slowly push her PSs down, so that even if she remains a shallow dropper, her PSs will be low enough that she can get good numbers that way.
 
pmps 282--shot 3 units


A great preshot to back the dose down on.....starting over with 3 units

I gave fluids at +5.5--I am sure that helped with the lower number---
 
kse said:
pmps 282--shot 3 units


A great preshot to back the dose down on.....starting over with 3 units

I gave fluids at +5.5--I am sure that helped with the lower number---
Click to expand...

Yay! Shaikha also has better numbers on the lower dose too. I do think she had a bounce going on in addition to her pancreas acting up a little again. She gets fluids in a little bit too.
 
Nice preshot Kim and Kitty!
so I am going to throw this out there
and remmeber every cat is different...(hate that saying actually!)
so with Shakespeare...he seems to do so much better when I hold him at
a dose for at least a week, sometimes longer...
If you look at his sheet I had him at 3.25 for I think 2 weeks and we had a breakthrough
after 2 weeks and then I had to lower him..

maybe....there is something to say for consistency...
jusst a thought, but I think I might hold her at a specific dose for 5 days if you can
just to see what happens...and the only reason I am suggesting this is because I dont think
you have tried this yet...just a thought...

no yelling please...not at all experienced!

Densie and shakes
 
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